HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 22, 2005
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING -NOVEMBER 22, 2005
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on November 22,2005, 7:00 p.m., at the
Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Rex
Greenwald. Dean Vatne and Michael Casey.
Commissioners absent:
Commissioner Valene Holthus.
Also present:
City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Associate Planner, Andy Cross
Associate Planner, Chris Vrchota
Others
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APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
October 25,2005
Motion by Casey, seconded by Vatne, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, I-present (Kirchoff), I-absent (Holthus) vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: CITY CODE AMENDMENT TO AMEND CITY CODE 12-3-5
ZONING DISTRICT MAP TO REFLECT CHANGES TO FLOOD INSURANCE
RATE MAP (FIRM) PANEL #270689 OOIOB.
Mr. Vrchota explained staffis requesting this be tabled to allow City staff to amend the
public hearing to include City Code Title 14, which is in regard to Flood Control
Regulations.
Motion by Greenwald. seconded by Casey, to table this item. Motion carried on a 5-
ayes,O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 2
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PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR STACK'S WOODS, A RURAL
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED SOUTHWEST OF THE
INTERSECTION OF 7m A VENUE NW AND 165m AVENUE NW.
Mr. Bednarz stated the Planning Commission is asked to review a preliminary plat with
20 rural residential lots. The proposal is consistent with the Rural Residential Land Use
Classification and Single Family Rural Residential (R-1) Zoning District that exist on the
subject property.
Mr. Bednarz discussed the stafIreport with the Commission.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if 164th Lane was a temporary cul-de-sac. Mr. Bednarz
stated it was.
Commissioner Vatne wondered if there was a sketch plan done previously. Mr. Bednarz
stated they did not choose to go through a sketch plan process.
Commissioner Vatne asked about the emergency vehicle access and he was confused as
to where that fit in. Mr. Bednarz stated he did not know if emergency access would be
the intent. They want to provide future access to the east and south.
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Commissioner Greenwald stated the way he read this is they are proposing 164th Lane is
a temporary cul-de-sac. Mr. Bednarz stated this was correct. Commissioner Greenwald
wondered if the lots to the east were single lots and he wondered if they know the
developer is proposing putting a temporary 164th Lane with the potential of splitting their
land in the future. Mr. Bednarz described the notification process and commented that
phone calls had been received.
Commissioner Greenwald stated the reason he brought this up was because usually when
there is a temporary cul-de-sac for a future road, they have a ghost plat for surrounding
properties which they do not have for this property.
Commissioner Vatne stated there was another place referencing the review by the Lower
Rum River Watershed District and he wondered if this review still stood. Mr. Bednarz
stated they have reviewed this plan and are fine with it.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 7:11 p.m.
Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Mr. Lon Bowls, 4995 159th Ave~ue, wondered at what point would the temporary cul-de-
sac be opened to the south to Ventura Street because that is his driveway. Mr. Bednarz
stated the property owners will decide when the road will be extended and at that point
they will come to the City for approval of their project.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 3
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Mr. Bowls stated his driveway is actually an easement, a dirt road, not maintained by the
City. Chairperson Daninger stated he would have to sell that property before the road
would go through because he owns it.
Mr. Andrew Millberg, 16491 Zuni Street, in the northwest part of the development, stated
the entire area is virtually all trees and he thought there was a provision to preserve trees
and he wondered if there was a way someone could buy the property and remove all of
the trees and make it into a big field. Mr. Bednarz stated the developer has a plan for
selective tree removal and will build around the trees to try to save as many as they can
but when someone buys a lot, the City cannot force them not to cut down the trees.
Mr. Perry Klinger, 16515 on the north side of the development, stated this area has been
the drainage area over the years so they will need to be careful with elevations. He
wondered if there will be drainage ponds on there. Chairperson Daninger stated the
development cannot affect surrounding properties when developed. Mr. Klinger
wondered where the water will flow to so it does not affect their property. Mr. Bednarz
stated the developer will address the issue of drainage.
Mr. John Ingle, 16415 Zuni Street, stated he saw on the map that there is a collection
pond for run off. He wondered if this was intended to hold water continuously or would
it be dry most of the time. Chairperson Daninger indicated the developer could also
address this item.
Mr. Helberg wondered if there will be any dredging of the wetlands to make them deeper.
Motion by Casey, seconded by Vatne, to close the public hearing at 7:19 p.m. Motion
carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Mr. Mike Quigley, representing Emrich Development, stated they will have to maintain
all drainage on their property, the depth of the ponds will hold water but his engineer
could explain this item better and there is no dredging of wetlands but there are two
minor fill areas that are in the area of street construction, but nothing that make lots come
under the nonbuildable standards. He noted trees will be saved when possible and will be
selectively cut.
Mr. Brian Krystofiak, Pioneer Engineering, stated the treatment ponds will typically be
dry because of the sandy bottom. The outlets are designed to be within a half a foot and
will not be up to their full level at all times. He anticipated them to be dry most of the
time.
Commissioner Vatne noted on the tree preservation plan, he saw where they have taken
the time to note the areas where each of the lots will be maintained. The areas he are
concerned about is a mound of trees that will be lost, because of the need for the drainage
and grading, much of the tree coverage will be taken away and he wondered if this is the
case. Mr. Brian Krystofiak stated some of the lots will require fill to bring them up and a
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 4
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lot of the trees in those areas will be lost because of this. It depended on the lot layout
but they would try to save as many trees as possible.
Commissioner Vatne applauded the level of preservation they are trying to do and he
thought this development was nicely done. He suspected and the language talks about a
fair amount of work done to try to minimi7.e the variances. He wondered if there were
any other plans that would come close to reducing the number of variances required.
Chairperson Daninger stated with all of the development they have seen, they get
landlocked with all of the long cul-de-sacs and he wondered if there was a plan, which
did not have a long cul-de-sac. He indicated he would not mind having more variances
for this development.
Mr. Quigley stated there are two variances, one being the driveways onto the collector
and the other was the long cul-de-sac. He stated if they were to pull the road back to
shorten the cul-de-sac and put the lots at the end of the cul-de-sac they would eliminate
the use of the property to east for access. He stated the only way into the property to east
would be off of 7, if possible. He stated that is why it is platted showing a temporary cul-
de-sac. He stated to put another street out onto 16Sth, there are only four lots along there.
Because it being a rural development with those size lots, it is difficult to maintain the
requirements. He noted they have looked at other options.
Commissioner Kirchoffwondered what the width oflot number one was. He thought it
was 400 feet wide. Mr. Quigley stated it was about that. Commissioner Kirchoff stated
when they talk about long cul-de-sacs, it cannot be shortened otherwise there would need
to be a road along each property. He did not think this standard could be applied equally
to a rural development.
Commissioner Greenwald wondered how many total acres this development was. Mr.
Quigley stated it was roughly seventy acres.
Chairperson Daninger stated his only concern was with the cul-de-sac. He stated he
would like to see a variance go with a lot rather than with a long cul-de-sac.
Commissioner Vatne stated when he first looked at this and looking at where a potential
out street could go through, he found it would be along the property line, which would
mean pulling in some of the four lots adjacent to 16Sth, which would provide an outlet to
16Sth. Commissioner Kirchoff wondered if this would affect the trees in the preservation
plan. Commissioner Vatne thought they may have to be shifted a little. Commissioner
Kirchoff wondered if this would affect the curve.
Mr. Quigley stated the problem would be that it would be close to the existing home on
165th and they would be next to a curve and only be 350 feet from County Road 7 and it
is not a good idea to come out at this point.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 5
Chairperson Daninger stated he liked the lots and tree preservations but not the cul-de-
sac. Commissioner Casey stated he was comfortable with the way this is presented.
Commissioner Greenwald stated he was struggling with the cul-de-sac. He stated they
have seen this happen in a lot of plans. He stated the problem is that they do not know
when the property to the east will development and it could end up being permanent.
Commissioner Vatne stated he liked having a sketch plan in advance because some of the
issues could have been taken care of sooner but he did like the plans and thought a lot has
been put into the plans. He did not see any easy solutions to the cul-de-sac that would
make sense. He stated he was comfortable with this plan.
Chairperson Daninger stated he was going to vote against this because he was not in
favor of the long cul-de-sac. Commissioner Greenwald stated he agreed because he felt
the cul-de-sac will end up being permanent.
Chairperson Daninger wondered if a neighbor would still have access from their
driveway to the road. Mr. Bednarz stated they would.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to recommend approval of the proposed
preliminary plat subject to the conditions of the attached resolution.
Commissioner Greenwald wondered if this eliminated the double frontage access.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated because this is a large area, he did not think it would work.
Motion carried on a 3-ayes, 2-nays (Daninger, Greenwald), I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 6, 2005
City Council meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT (05-09) AMENDING
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT (05-08) TO ADD TELECOMMUNICATIONS
EQUIPMENT AT 16191 ROUND LAKE BOULEVARD NW.
Mr. Cross stated the applicant is requesting a change to an element of the CUP request
that came before the City in August 2005 for the collocation of wireless
telecommunications equipment at the American Tower site near the Industrial Park.
Mr. Cross discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Commissioner Vatne wondered why the footprint is larger. Mr. Cross stated he thought
the applicant could answer this but he thought the technology being used is different.
Commissioner Vatne stated this is adjacent to the Rural Reserve and he thought a smaller
structure would be better.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 6
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 7:45 p.m.
Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
There was no public input.
Motion by Casey, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:45 p.m. Motion
carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Mr. Dan Lesher, Cingular Wireless, 7400 Metro Boulevard, Edina, MN, stated the reason
for the change is that because of the hurricanes, the cabinets are in high demand down
south and they would not get the cabinets for three months or more. He stated the
shelters are larger because they are prefab structures and the equipment inside the
structure will be larger than what is placed inside the cabinets. He stated this will not be
impacting the enclosed space.
Mr. Lesher showed a sample of what the building will be like.
Commissioner Kirchoff thought with the equipment being enclosed it would be protected
better. He thought a shelter would be needed more in the hurricane areas. Mr. Lesher
stated he did not know all of the reasons but cabinets are easier and quicker to install.
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Chairperson Daninger asked who owned the tower. Mr. Lesher stated American Tower
owns the tower and they lease space from them for their antenna
Chairperson Daninger wondered if there would be any noise from an air conditioning unit
in the summer. Mr. Lesher stated there is an air conditioning unit on the back side of the
shelter and only used in the summer. He noted there is no more noise than an air
conditioning unit on a house. He stated in the winter the equipment emits enough heat to
keep it warm inside.
Chairperson Daninger asked if there would be room to co-locate in the shelter. Mr.
Lesher stated there would not be.
Chairperson Daninger wondered if there would be any landscaping so it would not stick
out. Mr. Cross stated they did discuss screening and the area is enclosed by a fence so it
was decided there would not be any additional landscaping needed. Commissioner Vatne
thought the structure would be an improvement.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to recommend approval of the Conditional
Use Permit Request. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
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Mr. Cross stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 6, 2005 City
Council meeting.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 7
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PUBLIC HEARING: CITY CODE AMENDMENT TO AMEND CITY CODE 12-7
TO REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A FENCE OR
RETAINING WALL
Mr. Vrchota explained the Planning Commission is asked to review a proposal to make
two amendments to Section 12-7 of the City Code, which deals with fences. The ftrst
amendment would make it necessary to obtain a permit before the installation of any
fence or retaining wall in the City, and has been requested by the City Council. The
purpose of this amendment is to give staff a chance to review the proposed location of a
fence or retaining wall before it is installed, to prevent them from being installed in
drainage and utility easements where they interfere with access to drainage ponds, sewer
lines, and other utilities.
Mr. Vrchota discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if this speciftcally states when or where a fence or wall can
be installed or is this up to the City. Mr. Vrchota stated the fence ordinance was largely
overhauled during the code updates and it does state where a fence or wall is not allowed.
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Commissioner Vatne stated it sounded like this came about because of drainage issues
and fences were installed and issues have come up because of this. Mr. Vrchota stated
this code amendment would require any new fence or wall would require a permit so the
City can check for any issues.
Commissioner Casey wondered why they have two separate applications. Mr. Vrchota
stated the purpose for the two different applications is because they have different
information on them for fences and retaining walls.
Commissioner Vatne wondered how far this will go in regard to smaller tiered walls on
the property. Mr. Vrchota read what was required in the Code regarding retaining walls
and what would be included or not included. It was noted small retaining walls for
decoration or along homes would not need to have a permit.
Commissioner Greenwald wondered if developers would need to get a separate retaining
wall permit when building a house or would it be included in the building permit. Mr.
Vrchota stated he would have to discuss this with the engineer to see what would be
needed. He noted Mr. Bednarz indicated the Building Department reviews the retaining
walls around the house as part of the building plan.
Chairperson Daninger thought this was a starting point and can be reviewed in a year for
additions or changes.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 8
Chairperson Daninger wondered if the fee was going to be $25.00 and is there any intent
of putting the application on line. Mr. Vrchota stated it will be online and available at
City Hall.
Chairperson Daninger wondered when a resident gets a permit if the City will help them
in locating property lines. Mr. Vrchota stated the City does not have the resources to
determine this and the resident would have to do this on their own. He stated they can
pull the plat for residents to determine where the property lines are.
Chairperson Daninger stated the intent is to address the drainage issues and maintenance
for the fences but it is the property owner's responsibility to locate the property line and
call Gopher State One Call before installing a fence.
Mr. Vrchota stated there will be no site inspections. The permit is to show they did get
one and the plans for where the fence or retaining wall will be.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 8:12 p.m.
Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
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Mr. Winslow Ho1asek, 1159 Andover Blvd. NW, stated he was at the City Council
meeting where they discussed this. He stated this permit should not include farm fences.
He thought it should state any "residential fence".
Motion by Vatne, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 8:14 p.m. Motion
carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Mr. Vrchota stated there is an exemption in the City Code regarding an exemption of
keeping farm animals contained.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if a resident would need a permit for a fence around a
garden to keep pests out. Chairperson Daninger did not think the intent was for getting a
permit to install a fence there. Mr. Vrchota stated this has not been addressed and would
have to be discussed.
Motion by Casey, seconded by Vatne, to accept the amendments to City Code 12-7 to
require a permit for the construction of a fence or retaining wall.
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Commissioner Vatne stated initially when he looked at this, he wondered if this was more
Government, bureaucracy, control or the right thing to do. He thought in this case it was
being proactive to try to prevent major issues. He thought it was for the right purpose but
he was very sensitive to the control piece. Commissioner Kirchoff concurred. He stated
he was still concerned with someone walking into the Engineering Department and the
City will not give them the benefit of doubt indicating it would never be tom down or
driven upon but he hoped the City does not go too strong on one end of this and shut out
properties because it still does concern him.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 22, 2005
Page 9
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Chairperson Danmger thought the intent was good and was creating new jobs for
everyone but based upon trying to do better things he was not one for more rules and
regulations but he was in favor of the motion.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, I-nays (Kirchoff), I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 6, 2005
City Council meeting.
OTHER BUSINESS.
Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated on one of the TV stations he noticed they were talking
about the ISO ratings for fire and he looked at the internet and found that Andover had
one of the highest ratings in the entire metro area and he was very impressed and proud to
see that because it keeps their rates down. Chairperson Danmger concurred.
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Commissioner Vatne wondered when the "Clocktower" Marquee will be going in. Mr.
Bednarz stated there is no proposal at this time but he thought it would be worked out
next year.
Commissioner Kirchoff wondered if they should look at distinguishing between urban
and rural areas when reviewing developments. Chairperson Danmger stated he thought
this was discussed previously and at the City Council level and was indicated to leave it
as is or not discuss or change it. Mr. Bednarz stated the Council did not want to change
this.
ADJOURNMENT.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Kirchoff, to adjourn the meeting at 8:25 p.m.
Motion carried on as-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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