HomeMy WebLinkAboutApril 12, 2005
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING -APRIL 12, 2005
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on April 12, 2005, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover
City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Rex
Greenwald, Dean Vatne, Jonathan Jasper, Michael Casey
and Valerie Holthus.
Commissioners absent:
There were none.
Also present:
City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Associate Planner, Andy Cross
Associate Planner, Chris Vrchota
Others
APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
March 8. 2005
Motion by Holthus, seconded by Greenwald, to approve the minutes as presented.
Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-present (Jasper), O-absent vote.
March 22. 2005
Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Casey, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-present (Greenwald, Holthus, Daninger), O-absent vote.
VARIANCE (05-01) TO VARY FROM THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE EXTERIOR
MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS OF CITY CODE 12-6-5 FOR PROPOSED HORSE
SHELTERAT3028181sT A VENUE NW.
Mr. Cross explained Ken and Theresa Meyer have applied for a variance from the
requirement that the exterior finish on their proposed horse bam be compatible with their
house at 3028 1815t Avenue NW.
Mr. Cross discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 12. 2005
Page 2
Mr. Cross showed an aerial photo of the applicant's property and explained why the
horse barn makes better sense to be placed in front of the house.
Commissioner Jasper asked if there was any feedback from the neighbors directly to the
east and were there neighbors directly to the north. Mr. Cross stated neighbors were
notified within 350 feet of the property and there was not any feedback from them
regarding this.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked what color the house is. The applicant showed a photo of
the house.
Chairperson Daninger asked if the structure would be between the corral and the road.
Commissioner Jasper stated the aerial photo shows the corral will be closer to the road
than the barn.
Chairperson Daninger asked who measured the distance. Mr. Cross stated staff helped
measure the distance from the road.
Chairperson Daninger asked what the color of the horse barn would be and if the
applicant would only house their horses or others.
Mr. Ken and Mrs. Teresa Meyer were at the meeting to answer Commission questions.
Chairperson Daninger asked where the corral would be located. Ms. Meyer stated they
will have two corals and the larger one will be west of the barn and wrap around it, the
other corral will be south of the barn.
Mrs. Meyer stated the builder has chosen a color that almost matches their home and they
will have a green roof. She stated there is not a metal siding that would work for a horse
barn. She noted the barn would only be for their four horses.
Commissioner Vatne asked if there was a neighbor north of their property. Mr. Meyer
stated there was one neighbor across 181 st.
Commissioner Greenwald asked if they could put up a different color barn than the house
because the code does not state it needed to match in color, only in material. Mr.
Bednarz stated this was correct.
Commissioner Holthus asked for the applicant to describe their property because it looks
like two parcels next to each other. Mr. Meyer described their lot.
Commissioner Holthus stated this did not pose a problem to her at all because the house
seems to be separate from the rest of the parcel. She did not see a problem with this.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 12, 2005
Page 3
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Commissioner Vatne asked if the builder had any different options in regards to the brick
and masonite. Mrs. Meyer stated the builder has indicated they have built barns to match
the house but they do not like to do this and it does not work well.
Commissioner Casey asked if there were presently horses on the property now. Mr.
Cross stated there was not.
Commissioner Casey asked if the neighbors across the street in Oak Grove were notified
of the variance proposal. Mr. Bednarz stated the notification should go out to all
properties within 350 feet no matter what the city.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Kirchoff, to recommend to the City Council approval
of Resolution No. _, approving the variance for a horse barn.
Commissioner Vatne stated the topography was more of an issue with him in regards to
this item because the backyard slopes so much and it does not make sense to remove trees
to put up a barn.
Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the May 3, 2005 City
Council meeting.
VARIANCE (05-02) TO VARY FROM THE MAXIMUM LIGHT ALLOWED TO
ENCROACH ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES FOR ATHLETIC FIELDS AT
PRAIRIE KNOLL PARK LOCATED AT 595 146TH LANE NW.
Mr. Bednarz explained the Andover Football Association has asked to light the athletic
fields in Prairie Knoll Park.
Mr. Bednarz discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Chairperson Daninger stated the focus was on the variance for the lighting, not the need
for the lighting on fields.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if there were going to be four poles on the field. Mr.
Bednarz indicated there would be.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the bleed over would be from the poles on the opposite
side of the field. Mr. Bednarz stated that was correct.
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Commission Holthus asked if there was any other type oflighting that would not allow
bleed over onto the other property. Mr. Bednarz stated they had the lighting engineer
look at this and they could shield the lights or add more lights and lower them but that
would increase the cost.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April]2, 2005
Page 4
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Commissioner Vatne stated there was discussion about some of the limitations of pole
placement. He asked for clarification on where the poles would be placed. Mr. Bednarz
showed on the map the places where the poles will be located on the field.
Commissioner Jasper stated they spent a lot time talking about lighting and the lighting
ordinance and he thought the decision was made that poles cannot be higher than thirty
feet. Mr. Bednarz stated there was the recommendation that there not be a limit on
height. They do not have a height limit.
Commissioner Jasper asked if the proposed poles were going to be at seventy feet. The
application stated that was correct.
Mr. Terry Boe, current president of Andover Football Association and Jerry Johnson,
past president of Andover Football Association was at the meeting for questions.
Commissioner Holthus asked if the poles could be lowered to limit the light reflection.
Mr. Boe thought if they lowered the poles, it would reflect more light to the neighboring
property.
Commissioner Holthus wondered if it would work if they could lower the poles and add
two more poles. Mr. Boe stated the issue is they had to move the pole for the gas line.
The pole used to reflect down more and now it will be reflecting more onto the
neighboring property.
Mr. Boe stated it was recommended to put in twenty-five foot candles to light the field.
They could reduce the foot candles on the property.
Mr. Boe thought they needed to talk to the Engineering Department who planned this to
find alternatives to this. He thought they might consider putting the pole on the fifty yard
line and direct the light down instead of across the field. Commissioner Holthus
wondered if they could put the pole on the opposite side to shine inward.
Chairperson Daninger thought the applicant may want to review this further for other
alternatives to the lighting.
Commissioner Greenwald stated they will try to explore every option when it comes to
light pollution on another property. He stated that was the last thing they want to do is
have light affect other peoples' property.
Mr. Bednarz stated it looked like there was consensus of the Commission to look at
alternative ways to light the field. He thought maybe instead of having this go to the City
Council at the next meeting, they should wait until the May 3rd meeting and have the
applicant's look at other ways.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April]2, 2005
Page 5
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Commissioner Jasper thought they may be better off with three poles to light the field and
this would eliminate the light pollution. He thought the applicant's may want to table this
item to look into this further and have it brought back for further review.
Commissioner Vatne wondered if twenty foot candles were reasonable for a ball field.
Mr. Boe asked if this meant the Commission would not consider a variance over the .4
foot candles. Chairperson Daninger stated at this time, they would probably vote to deny
this but they could table this for alternative ideas to be found and discussed.
Commissioner Vatne stated another point that bothered him was iflighting was a topic of
discussion when this park was designed. Mr. Bednarz stated the Commission did not
have an opportunity to work through the design of the park. He thought the Park
Commission and City Council decided to put in as many amenities as possible in the
park. Commissioner Holthus agreed.
Mr. Boe asked how they can move this forward as quickly as possible to the City Council
because they need to start planning play on this field. Chairperson Daninger stated if this
is denied by them and moves forward to the City Council and they approve this, it can be
done quickly. If they table this and they look into alternative ways to light the field, it
will take longer.
Commissioner Greenwald felt they will need to deny this because tabling this item does
not do anything.
Motion by Greenwald to deny the variance because it does not meet the lighting
standards and there was no known hardship.
Motion failed for lack of second.
Motion by Jasper, seconded by Vatne, to table this item until the Planning Commission
meeting on April 26, 2005. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, I-nay (Greenwald), Q-absent
vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: RESIDENTIAL SKTECH PLAN FOR A SINGLE FAMILY
URBAN RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO BE KNOWN AS CARDINAL RIDGE
LOCATED AT 15785, 15805, AND 15875 NIGHTINGALE STREET NW.
Mr. Bednarz stated the Planning Commission is asked to review residential sketch plan
for a single family development.
Mr. Bednarz discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the applicant prefers to create the I58th Lane that
connects to temporary cul-de-sacs and would preclude the road going through to Linnet
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 12, 2005
Page 6
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Street or would there be an intersection at 158th and Linnet Street. Mr. Bednarz stated
this was correct. The applicant's proposal is for the temporary cul-de-sac with the street
connection in the future. He stated this would not preclude a street connection to the
north but it would not build it either. There is potential on I 57th Lane for around ninety
urban lots.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 8:12 p.m.
Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
Mr. Phil Greger, 15751 Linnet Street, stated this plan does not make sense to him at all.
He stated what they are doing is helping the developer develop his land and devalue their
property by eliminating their cul-de-sac. He did not see why they would make this a
through street.
Mr. Scott Allen, 15873 Linnet Street, stated he was in agreement with Mr. Greger. He
stated he has a little girl and they like the temporary cul-de-sac and would like to see this
stay the way it is. He did not see the problem with them doing the road the way it is
shown on the sketch plan, with a "U".
Mr. Greger stated the biggest issue he has is the children on the streets. He stated the cul-
de-sac reduces the traffic significantly. He thought if the developer was going to develop
this land and he was going to profit from it, the burden should be put on him and not the
residents.
Mr. Ben Minks stated he does not control the triangle on the Fredrickson property needed
to connect Linnet St. He stated he has reached an agreement to purchase that property in
the spring of2007 so the cul-de-sac on Martin Street will not stay there.
Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 8:21 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
Commissioner Greenwald stated they have looked at many plats and what they do not
have is the length of the temporary cul-de-sacs. He wondered how long the temporary
cul-de-sac will be. Mr. Bednarz stated they are shown at 720 feet.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated this was designated as a temporary cul-de-sac at one time
and he supported this road going through to I 57th at some time and to connect the two
temporary cul-de-sacs. He liked the idea of additional circulation within the entire
development. He stated it is not a matter of these roads supporting just this development,
but will support the new development coming in the east.
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Commissioner Holthus wondered if they could take 158th to the west out onto
Nightingale rather than go to the east or all the way across. She wondered if Nightingale
had a limitation as to the distance between intersections. Mr. Bednarz stated the
minimum spacing between intersections on Nightingale is 330 feet.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April]2. 2005
Page 7
Mr. Bednarz stated part of the thinking with the connection is that there will be another
connection north of 157th into the development so there is more of a looped street within.
Chair Daninger asked if the developer could put a road connecting the two cul-de-sacs
without the property to be purchased in 2007. Mr. Bednarz stated they could.
Commissioner Holthus wondered why they needed a connection to Linnet if they already
have a connection to Nightingale.
Commissioner Jasper thought the Linnet connection would have to go through when the
Fredericks property was developed.
Chairperson Daninger suggested there be a street connection to Nightingale.
Chairperson Daninger summarized the changes the Commission would like to see to the
development.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the May 3, 2005 City
Council meeting.
WORK SESSION
a Zoning Ordinance Update
It was noted Section 12-14-7 will be stricken from the Code.
1. City Code 12-13 Uses
12-13 is the "Uses" section ofthe zoning code. It identifies which uses are permitted,
permitted accessory, conditional, and prohibited in each zoning district.
The proposed change is the list of uses will be inserted into a table to make it easier to
reference and understand, and eliminate confusion. The only proposed use change at this
point is adding "Agencies selling or displaying recreational vehicles, boats, and marine
equipment" (now "recreational vehicles, boat, and marine equipment sales") as a
permitted use in the Industrial zoning district. lbis is the result of a change to a previous
section (12-2-2 Definitions: Miscellaneous Industry). If there is interest in adding or
amending any uses or where they are allowed, it can be discussed.
Commissioner Kirchoff thought the table was an easier way to read this. Commissioner
Vatne concurred and stated it was easier to follow.
11. City Code 12-13 1B. Animals
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April]2, 2005
Page 8
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Several conflicts have been identified in the way that the keeping of animals is regulated
in the City Code.
Mr. Bednarz summarized the proposed changes.
Commissioner Greenwald thought it was getting really popular to have ducks as pets and
he would like to add this to the list after chickens.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked what types of animals can not be kept.
Commissioner Jasper stated some animals fall into all of the above categories so there is
a problem with the definitions in the ordinance. They overlap each other. He stated
some of the definitions are by example, some are by inclusion and some are by exclusion
and they overlap each other.
Commissioner Jasper stated they could also have five farm animals on properties that are
five acres or greater so if you have four acres, you cannot have any farm animals but if
your have five acres, you can have five, if you have a hundred acres, you can have five.
He did not think that was a logical place to draw a line.
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Mr. Bednarz stated regarding definitions, they would need some examples and he did not
think deer was that. A deer was not a domestic animal because it is not commonly kept
as a pet. He stated they do want to make some progress and there may be some items
with the definitions that they can tune up.
Commissioner Jasper respectfully disagreed because he believed deer could be
considered a farm animal, they are non-domestic animals and they could be recreational
animals. He stated there are other animals that fall into each of the categories such as a
pig. He stated this was a concern.
Commissioner Jasper stated the ordinance permits different types of animals in different
zoning districts and prohibits some in some zoning districts.
Commissioner Greenwald asked what the solution would be.
Commissioner Jasper stated they needed to rework their definitions to try to determine
what they were trying to accomplish. He stated they either need to do the table approach
or use the definitions that are either inclusive or exclusive.
Chairperson Daninger stated the list would always be changing because there are always
different animals that become pets.
The consensus of the Commission was to bring this item back with a little more focus on
the definitions and farm animals specifically.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 12, 2005
Page 9
lll. 12-14 Performance Standards
12-14- 3 Exterior Storage
Mr. Cross summarized the proposed changes.
Commissioner Jasper did not know ifhe found an operable and licensed vehicle in a
backyard more offensive than an old boat or trailer in the back yard. He didn't agree with
the distinction between those.
Commissioner Greenwald disagreed and said he had a snowmobile trailer and used it. A
car he would have parked in the back probably would not be used.
Commissioner Greenwald did not know if he liked this because if you have a yard that is
large enough, he did not see anything wrong with parking a vehicle in the back.
Commissioner Jasper did not think it made sense to separate vehicles from trailers. He
thought they should limit this to two of anything that is operable and licensed.
The Commission discussed what was allowed to be parked in a yard or driveway.
Commissioner Vatne stated he would recommend a sliding scale based on acreage and he
would abdicate a grandfather period for people to move the offense up to a year from the
date the ordinance was put into place.
Commissioner Jasper stated it made sense to lump all licensed object together, allowing a
certain set amount. He agreed with Commissioner Vatne regarding a sliding scale. He
thought they all have to be operable, licensed and in good repair.
The Planning Commission recessed at 9:43 p.m.
The Planning Commissioner reconvened at 9:48 p.m.
Chairperson Daninger thought discussion brought back recommendations not to change
this code because it seemed to be working well. He also suggested they could use a
sliding scale if needed.
Commissioner Holthus wanted to make sure in the code it was noted there needed to be
wording for "licensed and operable". Mr. Cross indicated this was noted in another
section but could be referenced to the other section.
Commissioner Jasper would like the wording added to make it clear so there would not
be a need to look elsewhere. Mr. Bednarz stated licensed and operable only applied to
vehicles and if they wanted this to apply to trailers they would need to add wording.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April]2, 2005
Page 10
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Commissioner Holthus thought they should leave items four and five separate. In
number five it talked about unoccupied trailers and she thought they could add the word
operable.
Commissioner Jasper wondered if construction equipment should still be included. He
wondered if a permit was still given for landscaping. Mr. Cross stated they do not need a
permit for landscaping.
The consensus of the Commission was to leave this ordinance the way it was originally
but they had to be in working order and licensed.
12-14-4 Refuse In All Districts
A few minor adjustments are needed in this section.
The proposed change is staff feels that there should be a requirement that the trash
enclosure should be built to match the principal structure for non-residential uses. Also,
eliminate the six months to comply, this section was written in 1970.
Commissioner Greenwald asked if this included all residential and commercial buildings.
Mr. Bednarz stated that was correct.
IV. 12-14-5 Screening
v. 12-14-6 Landscaping in All Districts
VI. 12-14-16 Guesthouses
Vll. 12-10-21 Animal Shelters
Mr. Bednarz asked the Commission to review the first two items to see if they were too
restrictive for the next meeting.
Commissioner Greenwald stated he would like to have review of screening on rooftops
because the way it is written is way too vague.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to table items IV through VII until the next
Planning Commissioner meeting. Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
OTHER BUSINESS.
Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
ADJOURNMENT.
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Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Greenwald, to adjourn the meeting at 10:10 p.m.
Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
If
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 12, 2005
Page 11
Respectfully Submitted,
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver OffSile Secretarial, Inc.
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