HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK November 29, 2005
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1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
City Council Workshop
Tuesday, November 29, 2005
7:00 p.m.
Conference Rooms A & B
1. Call to Order - 7:00 p.m.
2. Continue Rural Reserve Discussion
3. Community Survey Discussion
4. Review Street Improvement Survey ResuIts/05-2/2005 Overlays
5. Other Business
6. Adjournment
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ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP-NOVEMBER 29,2005
MINUTES
A Workshop of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache, November
29, 2005, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present:
Councilmember absent:
Also present:
Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
None
City Administrator Jim Dickinson
City Engineer, Dave Berkowitz
Community Development Director, Will Neumeister
City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Others
CONTINUE RURAL RESERVE DISCUSSION
/ The Council has held five workshops on the topic of "Rural Reserve Planning" and a bus tour to
view new development in Blaine. At the last workshop the Council spoke about their
preferences with interested developers. A presentation will be made to assist the Council in
determining how these preferences can be applied to the Rural Reserve.
Mr. Mike Gair, representing Emmerich Development Company, made a presentation to the
Council regarding their plans to develop their portion of the Rural Reserve.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered if there would be apartment buildings in the development
because some of the areas on the map indicate high-density residential development Mr. Gair
stated the higher density buildings would be townhomes. The only apartment type buildings
would be for retirement housing.
Mr. John Jakels, Emmerich Development, stated this exhibit serves as a way to break the site up
into smaller chunks and there would be a variation in the types of densities that would go along
with that As far as the water, it would be a public amenity and not just for the residents of the
development He stated there is some park on the lake and there might be some access to the
lake from the park.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered what the status of the property is. Mr. Jakels stated none of
it is in Ag. Preserve.
Councilmember Orttel asked if this is the reason some of the original property from the Rural
Reserve was not included. Mr. Jakels stated he thought there was some property in the Rural
Reserve they would see later.
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 2
Mr. Neumeister stated there was some property in error in Ag. Preserve and was corrected at a
previous City Council meeting but not shown.
Mr. Gair stated one of the most interesting aspects is to discuss the future role of the Rural
Reserve.
Councilmember Knight wondered what the total size of the lake is. Mr. Gair stated the total is
90 to 95 acres for all three basins. Councilmember Knight wondered what the status of the lake
is, would it be considered a Minnesota Lake. Mr. Jakels stated the key is the soils. There is a lot
of research that needs to be done to examine the depth of the peat and how much they will need
to make the site buildable. He stated the shape of the lake will change before the final plan is
done. He stated this would be considered public water and would be guided by the DNR. Mr.
Tony Emmerich agreed. Mr. Jakels stated they would encourage this to be a public use.
Councilmember Trude thought there are large areas of undeveloped land around the proposed
high-density area. Mr. Jakels stated they thought it would be appropriate there because of the
smaller collector street at l57th.
J Councilmember Trude thought there was a lot of single family home buffering along the west
side of the reserve but not on the west side and she thought they may want to use more single
family buffering along the east side for the undeveloped Fields property.
Mr. John Berg, Loucks Associates, representing Woodland Development, made a presentation to
the City Council regarding development for the Rural Reserve.
Councilmember Orttel stated a road could be constructed through the Ag. Preserve but cannot be
assessed and would be cheaper than building a bridge. He stated they already discussed bringing
the road down to Coon Creek Boulevard and decided against this because the road is already
saturated and does not go anywhere.
Councilmember Trude wondered if traffic paths were looked at when developing the roadways.
Mr. Berg stated once he gets all the data together, certain things become obvious. There are
connections that have to be made.
Councilmember Jacobson asked Mr. Westlund and Mr. Emmerich if they have sat down and
discussed the plans. Mr. Emmerich stated Plan B is what will probably dictate.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered if there was discussion between the two parties regarding
park dedication fees and other fees. Mr. Emmerich thought they would be treated as separate
properties because they would be developed at different times and each owner would handle their
own costs.
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Councilmember Jacobson asked what Mr. Berg considered high density to be. Mr. Berg stated
the City will need to decide how much density they want in each area.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 3
Mr. Westlund stated what the Council is seeing is what they expanded upon based on the
meeting discussion in November.
Councilmember Knight wondered what the timetable is for the vegetable farms on Round Lake
Boulevard. Mr. Berg stated the transportation is the first issue and the plans are just rough ideas.
He thought the Rural Reserve will take at least twenty years to complete.
Mr. Emmerich stated parts of his property will be ready to start to develop in the summer of
2006.
Mr. Jakels stated they once had a plan that discussed the entire Rural Reserve that was reviewed
with staff. What they have brought forward to the Council is what they believe the City wants
based on discussions with staff. He stated this is a beginning and some basic elements they are
looking for is feedback on the roadways and the bodies of water.
Councilmember Trude wondered if plans A and B actually give residents more land on the water
than the first plan shown where there is one main body of water. Mr. Jakels stated the smaller
lakes will give more homeowners lakefront property but there is a balance and there will also be
walking paths along the smaller lakes and the lakes will connect and flow into one another.
Mr. Berg stated mining is going to have to happen on this property but the key question is how
much mining will be done.
Councilmember Jacobson stated he is interested in the density. On an overall basis, what kind of
density did the developers think they will end up with. Mr. Jakels stated density is somewhat
going to be dictated by how much land they will be able to develop. Another issue is the market
and what the City wants for density. Mr. Emmerich stated if they are going to develop a master
plan unit together, they would need a mix of housing for each type of user.
Mr. Westlund stated there will be green space around the lakes for public access even if there are
smaller ponds instead of a large central water feature.
Councilmember Orttel stated he would like to see a south/east connection to Andover Boulevard
because that would go directly to Hanson Boulevard and allow access out of the City.
Councilmember Knight stated a connection to Coon Creek Boulevard would not be practical
because it cannot handle additional traffic without major reconstruction.
Councilmember Jacobson stated another issue is bringing up the sewer line, which would not be
cheap and he wondered if the developers discussed how they would bring it up and how the costs
would be handled. Mr. Jakels stated they discussed that briefly and ultimately they would get
that taken care of. Mr. Berkowitz stated the details need to be hashed out and they need to find
out what the overall density will be before costs can be figured for disbursement. Mr.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 4
Neumeister stated it also dictates the layout of the major roads. Density will drive this project.
Mayor Gamache thought the street connections were pretty well addressed.
Councilmember Orttel wondered if there was discussion regarding allowing houses to front on a
collector street. Mr. Neumeister stated they do not allow this but they have discussed having two
types of collector streets and to allow housing along lower traffic collector streets.
Councilm~mber Knight wondered if the cost of bridges has an impact on where the roads would
go in the Rural Reserve. Mr. Jakels stated that did not have an impact. Mr. Emmerich stated all
of the water bodies would be interconnected.
Councilmember Trude wondered if the developers learned some things from "The Lakes" in
planning this property. Mr. Emmerich thought "The Lakes" was a nicer neighborhood in the
cities and he thought they could develop this type of neighborhood in this project.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered if the water areas and green space are going to be what the
developers constitute as park dedication or will this be in addition to park dedication. Mr. Jakels
. / stated they need to recoup some of the costs of the mining and intend to have most of that be
private property with a balance.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered what the intention is of the water body and are they
intending on turning it over to an association. Mr. Jakels thought there would be a master
homeowner association, which would actually own the water body and maintain it. He stated
this is actual ground water and there will not be a liner to contain the water so there will be low
periods and high periods.
Councilmember Orttel wondered what the depth would be in the lake to maintain the slope. Mr.
Jakels stated they would look at lake experts to determine this. He stated in "The Lakes", they
are going for a fourteen-foot depth.
Mayor Gamache thought there needs to be a balance between having open space along the lake
and private space along the lake.
Mr. Gair stated there was a study done by WSB in 2002, which allowed 3.5 units per acre so he
thought part of that plan was done unless it is already obsolete.
The Council discussed their issues with the east/west connection on the southern portion of the
Rural Reserve.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the School District has requested forty acres from the City for a
school in the area.
Mayor Gamache thought the developers laid out the density well along with the roadways.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 5
Councilmember Jacobson stated his concern would be determining the density. Mr. Berkowitz
stated when a study is put together they can only do so much with what information they have.
Councilmember Knight stated the market makes the decisions and the townhome market is soft
right now. Mr. Gair stated the townhome is a good alternative for the empty nester and people
who do not want home maintenance. Councilmember Trude thought detached townhomes were
a good alternative to standard townhomes. She thought more styles of homes were the issue.
The Council recessed at 8:45 p.m.
The Council reconvened at 8:50 p.m.
COMMUNITY SURVEY DISCUSSION
An Andover Council 2005-2006 goal is to conduct a citizen survey. The first action step is to
determine the extent of the survey and then to budget appropriately for the survey as part of the 2006
budget.
The research firm, Decision Resources that conducted the community survey for the City of Andover
in 2001 was contacted. That survey was utilized in the decision making process for the
AndoverfYMCA Community Center project. Based on those discussions, Decision Resources
provided the following ballpark budgeting for the cost of the community survey. The base cost of
$10,500 would include a fifty-question survey, four to five tracking questions. This will provide a
quality of life survey. Additional questions are $135 per question. A bond referendum survey would
need 12-15 additional questions. Decision Resources indicated that most surveys range from
$12,500 to $15,000. The 2006 City Council budget currently has $20,000 budgeted for community
survey related expenses.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered how many contacts would be provided. Mr. Dickinson stated it
would be a 400 contact base.
Councilmember Knight stated there are a couple of issues that would stand out for him. Bond for
open space purchase and the other is what kind of parks will be needed in the City.
Councilmember Trude thought they should repeat some of the questions from before regarding open,
space, parks and trails.
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Councilmember Jacobson thought they need to look at some of the questions from the YMCA survey
and expand upon it for this survey.
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Councilmember Trude thought starting out with issues would help. Councilmember Jacobson stated
another issue they should look at is if they want to look at WI-FI for the City and would the
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 6
community want it or use it.
Councilmember Trude stated another issue is lawn maintenance and items in the neighborhoods such
as motor homes. She wanted to know if there were a few nitpickers or if this was a major concern.
Councilmember Jacobson wanted to know what the perception oflivability in the City is.
Councilmember Knight stated there is no question about addressing the technology issue.
Councilmember Jacobson noted some items he thought should be surveyed are:
. Phone only
. The survey should be less than 50 questions because more questions would be too long for
people to want to take the survey
. Areas: Parks, roads
. Taxes: Spending
. Livability
. City Communications
. Commercial Development/Services
Councilmember Jacobson thought they should track any changes from original surveys for the
YMCA.
REVIEW STREET IMPROVEMENT SURVEY RESULT12005 OVERLAYS
As a way to improve customer service, staff sent out a survey for the 2005 Overlay project to receive
feedback on what things went well and how we can improve on items that could be better. There
were 115 surveys sent out; 38 were returned. Out of the 38 surveys returned, the vast majority of the
residents were happy with the project.
The main concern was with restoration and cleanup. The curb and gutter area had a sod requirement
while in the other areas the plan required seed. The seed had a difficult time germinating due to
several heavy rains. To resolve this concern. additional sod was laid to eliminate the erosion
problem. A way to resolve these issues for 2006 is to place sod in all disturbed areas and observe the
contractor closely when the restoration activity occurs so that undesirable material is not left in the
boulevard.
Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the survey results with the Council.
Councilmember Orttel stated he could not believe how many residents say they were not notified of
projects. He thought that many people were throwing the notices away without looking at them. He
wondered if they could put something on the envelope to alert the residents to something happening
in the City so they do not get thrown out.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 7
Councilmember Jacobson thought the Engineering Department did a good job based on the survey.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the Lunds Addition, 2nd through 5th, with the Council.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered if the policy is to put in curb no matter what. Councilmember
Trude stated the new policy is to put in a curb if there is not currently a ditch for runoff.
Mr. Berkowitz showed on the drawing a couple of areas in the development that should get curbs and
would be assessed.
Mr. Berkowitz indicated one of the homes where the curb would need to be reinstalled and the
resident would not be assessed because they front on Verdin and were assessed once already.
Councilmember Orttel stated the argument will be that there is not a problem in the area with
drainage so the residents would not want improvements done. Mr. Berkowitz stated it is policy to
replace curb with concrete unless there is a ditch.
Councilmember Trude thought they need to explain why the one resident would be getting assessed
and his neighbors would not be assessed.
Mayor Gamache wondered ifit is reasonable to go to the residents and ask them if they want a curb
because it makes the property and neighborhood look nicer.
Mr. Berkowitz stated 1 68th is a State Aid Road and it is up to the Council discretion on whether they
pay for the road or not. Councilmember Jacobson thought they should see what State Aid would pay
for the curb and then deduct the amount from the assessments to the residents.
Mr. Berkowitz showed another development (potawatomi Street) indicating which residents would
be assessed for curb. He noted everyone else will not be assessed because there is not any curbing
and there are ditches.
Tulip Street Survey
Councilmember Jacobson stated because of the school going on the corner of Tulip, he wanted to
make it known a possible conflict of interest.
Mr. Berkowitz stated they are talking about bringing forth a feasibility report. A big issue on this is
storm ponding. They will have to meet all of the requirements and will have to look at smaller
ponding areas within the Tulip Street road.
The Council discussed with Mr. Berkowitz the possible improvements that would be done to Tulip
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, Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 8
Street.
Mr. Berkowitz stated they would need to ditch the water and control the flow of the water.
Councilmember Orttel did not think they should assess for curbing on Tulip because of the drainage
issues and the ADT on the road.
Councilmember Trude stated this needs to get done and if they assess it, it will never get done.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered what they are trying to do on the road. Mr. Berkowitz stated
they are trying to deal with the curves and gravel road. The curves on the road are one of the issues
of safety.
Councilmember Jacobson stated ifit is a State Aid Road, it needs to get built to State Aid Standards.
Mr. Berkowitz stated eventually the road will need to be improved when the area develops.
Mr. Dickinson thought they would have enough money in the Road and Bridge fund to improve this
road because they have been putting money aside for the improvements.
Councilmember Trude wondered if they would do an individual curb assessment for each home. The
city would only assess the residential properties so they would only get twenty-thirty thousand out of
the project in assessments.
Mr. Berkowitz stated Bonnie Dehn would like to have a neighborhood informational meeting in
December but they do not know what the costs are or if there would be any assessments.
Councilmember Trude did not think they were ready for an informational meeting and she thought
they should send out a letter informing the residents they are going to look at the project again and
would meet when they have more information.
Mr. Berkowitz stated this is a State Aid road being offset by the Bridge and Road Fund and then they
would assess a flat rate to each property owner for the curb.
Truth in Taxation
Councilmember Jacobson stated his only suggestion is if staff could talk to the resident beforehand
and then have only person come to talk.
Community Center Budget
A handout was given to the Council to review.
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - November 29, 2005
Page 9
Letter of Reo res entation
A handout was given to the Council to review and sign.
Other Business
Mayor Gamache noted he received a letter from Tracie Warnberg regarding a grant they were
looking at with no matches required. He asked Mr. Dickinson to review the letter.
Councilmember Jacobson stated there is a Government dinner in Ham Lake on Wednesday,
November 30, 2005.
Councilmember Trude wondered what they can do to get something done about the cable being out a
lot lately. She stated the cable seemed to be out more than it has been on and she did not think they
should have to pay for dead air. Councilmember Jacobson stated it is a modulator in the line from
Comcast. Councilmember Trude wondered if there was something that could be done about this.
Councilmember Trude thought it would be nice on the replay schedule to have cancelled meetings
pulled so old items are not shown repeatedly. She wondered if they could have Reed run some
promos for the Community Center events.
Councilmember Trude stated she has gone to some of the Community Ed meetings and she is the
advocate for Andover.
Mr. Dickinson stated they had the construction wrap up committee meeting. The final cost was
about $75,000 to $80,000 dollars. He noted they would end up paying less then $50,000 and the
YMCA will pay the rest and they were over budget on the project less than a quarter of a percent.
Motion by Knight, Seconded by Jacobson, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting
adjourned at 10:26 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary