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HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK September 27, 2005 .I S\NDbVE~ 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER. MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US City Council Workshop Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:00 p.m. Conference Rooms A & B 1. Call to Order - 7:00 p.m. \ 2. Discuss Fencing & Retaining Wall Permits - Engineering 3. Present Draft Concrete Curb & Gutter Policy - Engineering 4. Discuss Rural Reserve Planning - Planning 5. Discuss Transitional Commercial/Industrial, Continued - Planning 6. Consider Various Code Revisions, Continued - Planning 7. 2006-2010 Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) Update - Finance 8. Update of Hanson Boulevard NW & Bunker Lake Boulevard NW Improvements/04-23 - Engineering 9. Other Business 10. Adjournment i ~NDbVE~ \..i...lj~ CW 0,8-' v V'-' 5 W-0P'/1 \ DJ\~ () ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 27,2005 MINUTES A Workshop of the Andover City Coundl was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache at 7:00 P.M., Tuesday, September 27, 2005 at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers Present: Councilmembers Absent: Also Present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude None Jim Dickinson, City Administrator Dave Berkowitz, City Engineer Dan Winkel, Fire Chief Will Neumeister, Community Development Director STORM UPDATE \ / Fire Chief Winkel updated Council on the storm of September 21st noting that with the exception of a few homes, all of the power is back on in the city. The Building Department has been assessing the damage. The Fire Department has responded to 130 calls since the storm. No serious injuries have been reported as a result of the storm. Chief Winkel thanked the Council and staff for their work. He noted that the Public Works Department has started picking up brush in the northeast corner of the city and will be moving to the northwest part. Councilmember Orttel suggested that Public Works only pick up the branches and leave the wood as there are people looking for wood. Mr. Dickinson explained that we are hauling the brush to Andover Station North and a tub grinder will remove the chips from the site at no cost to the city. Mr. Berkowitz stated that as soon as the county has fInished clearing the county roads they are willing to help clear our streets. Councilmember Orttel asked if the city could start a program to fmd volunteers to help the elderly with their clearing. Councilmember Jacobson asked if people could burn their brush if they are unable to get it to their curb. Chief Winkel felt that was not a good idea as most of the trees are green and people will throw other debris on the fIres. He informed Council that two of our '\ fIrefIghters who work for Allina are in Texas helping with the hurricane relief. They said / that the conditions there are horrible. ; City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 2 Mayor Gamache noted that he was a participant in a teleconference with the Governor and other Mayors and administrators. All of the cities in the North Metro are having the same problems. Councilmember Trude suggested that after all of the brush is picked up we have a trash hauler go through the city to pick up things like sheds that are on properties they don't belong on. Mr. Dickinson stated that it is up to the property owners to have these items removed. He asked how much Council is willing to spend on the cleanup. The estimate is $60,000 to $80,000. Councilmember Trude asked if we are keeping track of all of our costs. Mr. Berkowitz indicated that we have a project number that everything is being charged to. DISCUSS FENCING AND RETAINING WALL PERMITS Mr. Berkowitz explained that he put together two draft permit applications keeping them simple and with a reasonable permit fee. Councilmember Jacobson asked what he would get for his fee. Mr. Berkowitz stated that the city is trying to prevent people from putting fences and retaining walls in the wrong place. / Discussion centered on requiring that the property stakes must be exposed. Councilmember Jacobson noted that if we want to make sure people don't put fences where they don't belong, someone from the city should go out and tell them where they can put it. Councilmember Trude noted that Mounds View requires lot surveys. She suggested that on the permit application the sentence requiring property stakes be removed and only require that the person provide a lot surveyor plat. Councilmember Orttel noted that if you put a fence in a critical easement you have to be aware that you may have to removy it. Mr. Berkowitz explained that this is a problem where we have vehicle maintenance access points or overflow problems. Councilmember Orttel suggested that the following statement be on the applications: "Fences put in easements are subject to removal." Councilmember Trude suggested that under Staff Comments on the application the following be added: Outside a wetland. Site lines look OK. Staffwill revise the application and bring it back to a future meeting. Councilmember Knight noted that he has an issue with retaining walls. He felt that if the retaining wall isn't on a property line he doesn't want to bother with it. Boulder walls should also be looked at. He suggested that we defme retaining walls. Mr. Berkowitz felt that this would pertain to functional retaining walls, not walls used for landscaping. Mr. Berkowitz stated that anything above 4 feet needs an engineered design. Staffwill / revise this application and bring it back to a future meeting. City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 3 DRAFT CONCRETE CURB AND GUTTER POLICY Councilmember Jacobson stated that if you have a half mile of road with a number of houses along the road and at the very end you have a water problem because all of the water is draining down there and you put in concrete curb only 4 or 5 property owners have to pay for the curb. He didn't think that it was fair to make those 4 or 5 pay the whole cost of the concrete when the water is really coming from all of the lots. Councilmember Trude thought this is called a storm water curb. Mr. Berkowitz stated that is how we referred to it before and how we handled that before we had something in writing. Councilmember Trude noted that the ones toward the river didn't pay anything because it was storm water and on the other ones, you look at their water flow and it didn't come from one area to the other. Councilmember Knight stated the only problem with that is you'd have to go out and see which lots are draining where because you couldn't assess those lots that aren't draining in there. Mr. Berkowitz noted that developments now either have a curb or they don't. The potential issue is you have a rural development that has drainage ditches and 5 houses with curb. With a public hearing we can we send notices for those 50 lots to pay the assessment for the 5 houses. Councilmember Jacobson didn't feel we should assess for something they are not contributing to. Councilmember Orttel stated the project we're talking about is very similar to the one north of there. The city had put those curbs in well after the developments to save massive erosion. There were people who got curbs whose houses got flooded but they were at the bottom ofthe hill or by the river. Councilmember Jacobson noted that there are areas similar to this that we've done that were basically flat and you still put in concrete curb and gutter. Mr. Berkowitz explained that this is a rural area with existing bituminous curb. There is a storm sewer system that picks this put. We are replacing this small4-inch curb with a surmountable curb. They've ranged from $1,800 a lot to $2,300 a lot. Mr. Berkowitz showed a pic1ure of a street with no curb and no drainage ditches. He noted that right now the storm water runs along the grass line. This area would be proposed to have concrete curb. There are usually concentrated areas where there are spillways. The city has noticed that in some of these areas the property owners have filled in the ditches. Councilmember Orttel felt that with $8-$10 a foot for concrete curb, it's hard to sell the fact that they do need curb. When we send out public hearing notices we should tell the people why they need to have concrete curb. Councilmember Orttel asked what right-of-way management funds are. Mr. Dickinson / stated that every time a utility comes in they pay a permit fee. He felt that we \ City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 4 could use some of those funds to restore roadways. Councilmember Trude asked if this would be the new policy_ Mr. Berkowitz stated yes. DISCUSS RURAL RESERVE PLANNING Mr. Neumeister explained that Shaw's Glen, Country Oaks West, Sophie's Manor and Sophie's South are projects that have been designed or built in the last two years. After taking out all of the developable land, there isn't must left to develop. At the end of August Mr. Neumeister took a tally and we currently have 423 lots that are either townhomes or single family lots that are vacant developable lots. The estimate for next year is 180 lots. If you add that up there are 603 lots. ) Mr. Neumeister stated that the rural reserve area originally started out at 1000 gross acres but after taking out the wetlands and the floodplain you're down to 859 acres. Ifwe have a major development like we see in The Lakes, take 159 acres out of the buildable space, you're down to 700 acres. There are a couple of other things that we can take out and we'll be down to 600 acres. When you figure 3 units per acre, that's about 1800 homes. At about 200 homes per year, that's 10 years of development. Once you bring a pipe up here, you'll be set for 10 years. Mr. Neumeister explained to the Council that we need to start planning as it will take a year to corne up with a plan that Council is comfortable with. We have flood plain issues and a gas pipeline that we need to deal with. We have tree masses throughout the area and agricultural preserve land that will have to be dealt with, as that will affect how the staging takes place. We have segmented ownerships. There are a number of property owners that will have to be coordinated. Mr. Neumeister noted that parkland would need to be dealt with also. Mr. Neumeister reviewed information provided to the Council regarding different issues regarding the rural reserve area. Councilmember Jacobson asked if the Eveland and Windschitl properties should be included for planning purposes. Mr. Neumeister stated yes. IfWindschitl is to develop we would probably serve him from the west. Eveland's property is in agricultural preserve until20I3. Discussion was on the fill that would be removed and where it would go and the creation oflakes with pipes in between. Councilmember Jacobson asked if the developers would turn the lakes over to the city with the idea being that the lakes would be their park dedication. Mr. Dickinson noted that the developers understand that would not happen. Councilmember Trude stated that where she lives the residents like the homes on the wetlands but it's not a safe place for kids. People like living there because they don't / City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 5 have to look at someone else's backyard junk. It gives them privacy and a view. Councilmember Jacobson asked what the developers are thinking regarding commercial along Round Lake Boulevard. Mr. Dickinson stated a bigger question would be for Council is whether you would consider neighborhood commercial in the center of the property. Mayor Gamache stated the intersection at l57th leads itself to commercial. He also stated that 16151 and Round Lake Boulevard, the northeast corner, has nothing in it now. Councilmember Trude felt once Andover Station takes off, that property should be valuable in 5 to 10 years. The place that makes sense would be off Highway 10 which is Round Lake Boulevard. Mr. Neumeister noted that we don't want to create two small industrial parks; we would want one large one. Councilmember Trude thought that the city needs more commercial tax base. Councilmember Knight didn't think the city could support two retail centers. Councilmember Trude stated that we should get some of the smaller type business such as a machine shop, etc. Mayor Gamache felt that Hugh's Industrial Park should be concentrated on. Councilmember Ortte1 suggested a retail neighborhood business at the intersection of 1 57th and Round Lake Boulevard. Mr. Neumeister informed the Council that the school district needs 26 to 30 acres for an elementary school near 1 57th Avenue and Round Lake Boulevard. He asked Council if they would reserve that land for the school to which Council responded yes. Mr. Neumeister also thought that Council should take a tour to see collector roads. Council consensus was to get a proposal from the developers to see what they want for commercial and retail. Councilmember Knight did not want to see a gated community. Councilmember Trude indicated that the Chairman of the Blaine Planning Commission would be willing to meet with our Council. Mayor Gamache would like to see us surround the current homes - keep single family against single family. Councilmember Trude suggested some senior housing options and some cooperatives. She did not want to see townhomes. Her goal is to keep the community like it is. Councilmember Jacobson suggested that Mr. Neumeister send out a form to Council so they can write down what they would like to see. Councilmember Knight felt that should talk to Blaine to see what they learned in the process. He would advocate a linear water park. Councilmember Jacobson suggested that Council talk and put out their wish lists and then the Park Commission can give us their wish list and then the developers can give us their wish lists. Mr. Dickinson noted that at the next Council meeting they would present a number of dates for a bus tour. j City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 6 DISCUSS TRANSITIONAL COMMERCIAL/INDUSTRIAL, CONTINUED Councilmember Jacobson thought that they were going to look at the ordinance, as some ofthe items in the ordinance are not appropriate for some of the designations that we have. We were going to be looking at the ordinance and what was permitted and the defmition of commercial. Councilmember Trude stated that there was a motion to get rid of transitional industrial and then we were going to go to the workshop and see what it would mean if we had transitional commercial. Ifwe know the defmition of transitional commercial we might just say, fme, we did what we wanted to do. Mayor Gamache was in favor of eliminating the transitional commercial from all of the sites shown. Except to let people know what will happen in the future, Mayor Gamache didn't see any reason to keep transitional commercial unless it's to let the residents around there know that this is a possibility. Councilmember Orttel felt that if it's not there, you will never zone it that. Councilmember Trude felt that it would be okay to keep the one by her home transitional commercial in the event we get light rail through Andover. / Mr. Dickinson explained that the resolution was approved to remove light industrial. He asked if we are done with this or does Council want to discuss the uses that are allowable in commercial. Councilmember Trude stated that was what they wanted in the packet (uses that are allowable). Councilmember Jacobson wanted to look at what is allowed in a commercial district, neighborhood district, etc. He wanted to see what should be left in and what should be taken out. Councilmember Knight noted that Barry Sullivan had said that we can do whatever we want and when someone applies you can do what you want because commercial is wide open. Councilmember Jacobson suggested putting it back to the original zoning and when someone comes in deal with it at that time. Councilmember Orttel stated that his point is that at least they have the ability to come in and present a plan. This could be a watered down version of neighborhood business until such time as they want to do more than that and then they could come in for a rezoning. Councilmember Jacobson stated that we need the uses already in existence in our ordinances that say what can go in our commercial area and neighborhood business. We need to look at the four areas and see if those are the uses we want to see in those 4 areas or are some inappropriate. Council discussed the 4 sites and what would be appropriate for uses in those areas. The one on Constance and Crosstown is not developable. Council felt that the Grace Lutheran Church site would probably be retail. The Veiman parcel would be good for a dental office. The Meister property could be a light industrial park. j / City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 7 Mr. Neumeister understood that Council wants a list of neighborhood businesses that could fit. Councilmember Orttel thought maybe all 4 areas shouldn't have the same use. The one in the rural area is a bigger site and could be used for something. It's at a good location and at a busy intersection. Councilmember Trude also noted that there is a signal light at Highway 65. Councilmember Orttel thought that the others could be for a dental office or something similar. The idea was to preserve these areas for some mild use in the future and we wound up giving it the broadest zoning definition that the city has. That was not our intent. Ifwe're going to narrow it down, we should do it by site and not say that everyone could only have a dental office. Mr. Neumeister asked if the four sites should be dealt with separately. Councilmember Orttel states yes. Councilmember Trude asked whether the church should be left transitional commercial. Councilmember Jacobson noted that it's harder to turn someone down if the use is listed in our ordinance. Staff was directed to provide council examples of commercial developments with limited business and neighborhood business. On the Meister site more expanded uses should be . considered. , .I CONSIDER VARIOUS CODE REVISIONS, CONTINUED Mr. Neumeister stated that there are five items. Revision 32 deals with Shopping Center zones. Councilmember Trude noted that the city attorney had very specific comments on that. He said if you just go back to an explanation of something it's not the same as setting standards. Mr. Neumeister stated that he tried to explain why we're saying to leave it the way it was presented and that is because there are standards being prepared and they are on Pages 7 and 8 of the first part of the packet. At the present time there is only one Shopping Center district in the city and that is the Downtown Center. Councilmember Orttel suggested that we have it as allowable under General Business by contract only. Then we set the standards. He stated the problem with the standards is you don't have everything in there. With a contract you do it at the time of the development. Councilmember Trude agreed with Councilmember Orttel but would like Barry Sullivan to look at it. Motion by Orttel, seconded by Knight to table this to the next work session where there is time to deal with it. Motion carried unanimously. 2006-2010 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN (CIP) UPDATE Mr. Dickinson explained that the CIP presented to Council is for their reference and he asked that they get their comments to him so it can be finalized in early November. One J ,. City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 8 Item he would like to discuss at another meeting is the school district's plan to connect all of their buildings with fiber-optics. The school district has contacted the city to see if we want to run fiber lines from all of our buildings. He would like Scott Allen to explain this to Council. However, in adding up the numbers he came up with over $300,000.00. UPDATE OF HANSON BOULEVARD NW & BUNKER LAKE BOULEVARD NW IMPROVEMENTS Mr. Berkowitz informed Council that the County is 60% done with their plans. There will be no traffic signals at 133rd and Hanson as it does not meet warrants. We want to be. prepared so we're putting conduits in there. Station Parkway will be a full movement intersection with no signal. There will be 3 lanes from Bunker Lake Boulevard to Station Parkway. Councilmember Trude felt there should be a trail on the north side of Bunker Lake Boulevard west of Hanson Boulevard. Council discussed the County's plan for the improvements. OTHER BUSINESS / Frisbee Golf - Councilmember Knight stated that the people on l5ih Avenue near the park where we have Frisbee golf have complained because they have kids in their yard, and people drinking and smoking. They are worried about the pine trees starting on fire. Mr. Dickinson stated he and Todd Haas have talked about this problem and they will be going out there to see how it can be redesigned. Council directed staff to look at this and get back to them. Hanson Boulevard Improvements - Mr. Berkowitz explained that by the time we got a plan together and to the developer, construction was about to begin. Staff reviewed the Joint Powers Agreement that the county submitted to us on August 24, 2005 and got it back to the county in one day. We still haven't seen a revised Joint Powers Agreement on cost splits, etc. He noted that the construction limits have changed. Councilmember Trude asked if the project cost is now 1.2 million dollars. Mr. Berkowitz replied yes. Councilmember Trude stated that at the beginning the cost was $800,000. The developer's dollars have changed and the developer has submitted a letter stating his concerns that include construction limits, financial limits that they are responsible for and construction methods. Mr. Dickinson stated after we did the feasibility report the County added additional road width. Our position is that we want the original project limits and ifthe county wants to widen the road, it's their cost. J Mr. Berkowitz noted that Mr. Dickinson has talked with several of the County Commissioners to let them know we have a big concern. Mr. Dickinson stated that we / City Council Workshop - September 27,2005 Minutes - Page 9 are going to want our right-in/right-out for the community center. We are going to work with the County over the next week and tell them our position. He stated that we have some good ground to negotiate on. Councilmember Trude stated that when you overbuild a project like this you couldn't do something somewhere else. Mr. Berkowitz explained the lack of communication between the city and the county, noting that sometimes we wait two days for a response from them and sometimes we don't hear from them at all. Mr. Berkowitz noted that he and Mr. Dickinson would be dealing with this item. Assessments - Mr. Berkowitz explained that Cardinal Ridge, Shaw's Glen and Woodland Crossing want to put in infrastructure but they don't want Putnam to get it for free. Councilmember Orttel suggested that the project get done and Mr. Putnam receive a deferred assessment. Council consensus was to do a deferred assessment for Mr. Putnam. Motion by Knight, seconded by Jacobson to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. Meeting adjourned at 10:20 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Vicki Volk City Clerk