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HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK August 23, 2005 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER. MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US City Council Workshop Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:00 p.m. Conference Rooms A & B 1. Call to Order - 7 :00 p.m. '- 2.. Discuss Sewer Extension Request - Engineering J 3. Rural Reserve Planning (cont.) - Planning 4. Consider Various Tabled City Code Revisions - Planning 5. Discuss 2006-2010 Capital Improvement Plan (cont.) - Finance 6. 2006 Budget Discussion (cont.) - Finance 7. Transportation Funding - Planning/Engineering/Administration 8. Discuss Fencing/Retaining Wall Permits - Engineering 9. Other Business 10. Adjournment 't\NDbVE~ / ANDOVER SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP -AUGUST 23,2005 MINUTES The Special Workshop of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache, August 23,2005, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Councilmember absent: Also present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel Julie Trude City Administrator Jim Dickinson Community Development Director, Will Neumeister City Engineer, David Berkowitz Others APPROVE AGENDA \ J Councilmember Jacobson asked if they could also have an update on the de-watering effort at Sophie's, as he heard there is high water there. Mayor Gamache stated they would add that as 2A. DISCUSS SEWER EXTENSION REQUEST City Engineer Berkowitz offered a brief history on this request. He stated that at a May workshop they talked about Mr. Holasek's request to extend sewer to Sophie's South development. He indicated the requested area is recommended by Staff and detailed in the report to be served by the 150th Lane / Bluebird trunk to the south of the property. He advised that the ARC recommended that Mr. Holasek pay the extra cost to extend the sewer to his property. The extra cost to extend the sewer consists of extra depth and pipe extensions that otherwise would not have been required as part of the Sophie's South development. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that if the sewer is not extended to Mr. Holasek's property through Sophie's South, Mr. Holasek's property would need to be served from the I 50th Lane trunk line or another option would be a lift station and a force main back through Sophie's South. Councilmember Orttel asked if there was a trade off to the future when this would otherwise hook up. City Engineer Berkowitz stated the northerly portion would be serviced through Sophie's South. Councilmember Orttel asked if this is extra cost to the City or if it would lessen the cost for the 150th Lane trunk. City Engineer Berkowitz stated it would not change the 150th Lane trunk cost; this would be an additional cost. \ ) Councilmember Orttel stated that Mr. Holasek makes the argument that no one else had to pay an extra fee, but staff's argument is that this is an extra cost to the City to accelerate service to that area. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 2 City Engineer Berkowitz stated that is correct. Councilmember Orttel asked how many lots this would service, and City Engineer Berkowitz responded that 37 lots would be serviced. Councilmember Orttel stated that the benefit to Mr. Holasek is that service would be available now instead of waiting for the I 50th Lane trunk; however Mr. Holasek believes this area was supposed to be serviced by a trunk in 1993. He clarified that if that had happened, Mr. Holasek would not have to pay this cost. City Administrator Dickinson stated that when they are discussing the number of units this would service it is important to remember that no plans have gone through the review process, so the City does not know if it will be 37 lots. City Engineer Berkowitz stated Staff looked at the 1995 Comprehensive Plan, and could not find specifics on where the trunk was supposed to go, but it was indicated that Mr. Holasek's property, encompassing 200 lots, was to be serviced by the Bluebird trunk. He reviewed a map showing the trunk line, noting that at some point the trunk line veered to the east. He also pointed out a cul-de- sac, which at one time Mr. Holasek believes was meant to go through. J Councilmember Orttel noted that the date on this plan is 2004, and asked what the previous plan shows. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that the 1999 plan showed a trunk line north of this area. Councilmember Knight asked where the bottleneck is located. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated it is at Bluebird and 150th Lane. Councilmember Jacobson asked Staff to respond to the argument that Mr. Holasek will have to pay $15,000 now and a trunk charge later. City Engineer Berkowitz advised that Staff looks at the lines for each area, and works with Finance to determine what the area charges will be for a particular area. He indicated that the way the line was figured it does not include that area so there is no way for the City to recapture those costs. Councilmember Orttel asked if that meant that each person with an acre of land will have to pay more because there is less acreage to spread it across. City Administrator Dickinson stated that is correct. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that is why Mr. Holasek will still have to pay the set area charge, and then $15,000 to get the line extended. Mayor Gamache asked ifthe $15,000 just covers the depth they have to go to lower the pipe so they can service Mr. Holasek's property. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that is correct. J Councilmember Knight asked if there is precedent for this. City Engineer Berkowitz stated it is the first one he is aware of; they usually know what trunk a parcel will be connecting from ahead of time. Councilmember Knight asked if the bottleneck affects the plan, and Staff responded that it does. Councilmember Knight asked if the extension on 150th Lane has a timeframe. Mr. Holasek stated that the other trunk would be by his buildings, and is not really feasible. He added it would be going through a lot of farmland. Councilmember Orttel asked if the reason this is available to go into the Crosstown trunk is because Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 3 of the lift station. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that is correct. Councilmember Orttel asked if there is a benefit to the City or anyone else to include this besides Mr. Holasek. He questioned if it would increase the cost per unit elsewhere. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that the red and blue zones have the same area charge, so no. Councilmember Jacobson asked if they serviced this area now if they would have to go back to the Metropolitan Council. Community Development Director Neumeister stated the City would have to change their sewer plan and have it approved, but he does not think with only 37 units the Metropolitan Council would have a problem. He indicated it would have to be addressed. Councilmember Orttel asked if the $15,000 was not paid by the developer, would it come from the trunk fund. City Engineer Berkowitz stated they would have look at it. Councilmember Jacobson asked ifit would be possible for the City to hold the $15,000, and have it paid off as the lots are sold. City Administrator Dickinson stated they would have to include it on the fee schedule like a lift station cost. Councilmember Orttel stated he believes they are saying the cost would be spread over the whole district if they do not collect it from Mr. Holasek. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that was correct. He noted the other factor is that this pipe is under construction now. He indicated the contractor has agreed to hold offfor a week, but the City would need to put in a change order within that timeframe in order to proceed. Mayor Gamache asked if the depth part is where they have to go laterally. City Engineer Berkowi tz indicated that is correct; it would be an average of five feet deeper on the lateral line. Councilmember Orttel asked why this is not just a lateral charge then, which is always charged to the developer in total. City Administrator Dickinson stated the trunk charge is charged to the developer, along with a City area fee, and the developer pays 100% of the lateral charges. He indicated on the lateral they would be asking for over-sizing and extra depth from a developer that would not benefit him. Councilmember Orttel asked if it is usual to make one developer plan for the next property. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that is not usual; sometimes the City will have them come to the property line with the pipe necessary for the next property if they know it is coming. He indicated the problem here is that the red line goes right to the edge of the property. Councilmember Orttel stated his concern is there is a cost to the public at large if they do not charge Mr. Holasek, and it sounds like there is. He indicated he does not want to spread the cost to other people because they are accelerating it for one developer. \ J Councilmember Jacobson stated he believes Mr. Holasek's concern is that he is paying it twice. He asked if a compromise would be to not charge up front, but spread it over the lots as they sell. City Administrator Dickinson stated that he would suggest if the Council were going to do that they assign an index number to it so it increases over time. Mr. Holasek stated that the City changed their plan; he did not change the plan. He indicated that , , Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 4 originally the trunk was supposed to go off the cul-de-sac to serve Crosstown. He stated ifthe trunk went in where it was intended, it would be trunk sewer and the depth would be there. He indicated when you make the pipe an extra depth to service the next development it is called trunk. He stated the developer pays for lateral charges and the trunk is paid by area charges. He indicated the current trunk charge is $1300. He asked if that was changed other than the index. City Administrator Dickinson stated it was not; the index covers the increased cost to do a project. Mr. Holasek showed the northern portion, where no one had to pay extra costs for depths, even though it is a huge area. He indicated that is why 150th Lane got overloaded. He stated that all of this is the Bluebird sewer; now he is hearing that they cannot only add Sophie's South, but are also adding all ofthe red area. He asked how the City could do that without putting in a bypass. City Engineer Berkowitz explained that the 183% capacity projection is at full development. He stated the sewer is only running about half full now. He indicated the City is in the process of getting a flow meter, but even with all of the red area developed they should not cross the 100% mark. Mr. Holasek stated he is not asking for 80 to 100 lots; only 37 lots, that could have been done if the City had not changed the sewer's direction. He indicated if they pay this they will be paying more / unit trunk charges than any others, so they are paying twice. He stated there is benefit to developing now; there is an 88 unit development on the county road, and the County will only allow one outlet. He indicated if this area is developed it would provide a second outlet for those units. He showed the area being farmed, and reiterated it would not be feasible to run sewer to that area with the farm land there. He cannot imagine that $15,000 is enough to change the trunk area charge, since they added 1000's oflots to the north and never changed it. He indicated it is not costing any expense to the trunk fund, and it cannot be called lateral pipe. To service the next property is trunk, and he does not think he should have to pay it twice. Councilmember Orttel stated the problem is they have never switched a sewer district before. He indicated Mr. Holasek can say it does not cost more, but it costs $15,000, and someone has to pay that. Mr. Holasek argued that the plan changed because the City made a mistake. Councilmember Orttel stated that they do not know it was a mistake. Councilmember Jacobson stated they have to plan with what is in the ground today. He indicated they cannot look at what was intended eight to ten years ago. He stated they are calling this an acceleration fee because it is to accelerate development. He indicated if Mr. Holasek wants to wait for the sewer line to come in, he does not have to pay it. Mr. Holasek stated it was an injustice 12 years ago, and it will not be just a few years until the other sewer line comes in; it will be longer than that. . / Mayor Gamache asked if there would be a stub that would be picked up off of 152nd. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that 27 units would be picked up out of64, so 37 units is what they are discussing here. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 5 Mayor Gamache asked ifthe second cul-de-sac ever got a stub. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that it is just a stub to serve the cul-de-sac, and they do not usually run sewer through a cul-de-sac. Councilmember Orttel asked if the only reason for the extra depth is the distance from the trunk. City Engineer Berkowitz responded affirmatively. Councilmember Knight asked about Mr. Holasek's comments concerning Constance Comers. City Engineer Berkowitz advised that there is extra depth there to service Miller's Woods, but again the developer was not responsible for that because the developer did not need the depth. Councilmember Jacobson asked if that was not the same situation as here. City Engineer Berkowitz stated the difference is that this area is meant to be serviced by a different trunk. Councilmember Jacobson asked if you forget the colors, what is the difference. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that is trunk, not lateral. Community Development Director Neumeister stated there is a line coming between Mr. Holasek's property and Sophie's, and asked why they could not have Mr. Holasek come and get the line from there. He indicated it has to be deep sewer because it goes all the way along Mr. Holasek's property. City Administrator Dickinson stated you would have a lot of extra pipe in the ground, and it would cost a lot more. Councilmember Orttel stated it may cost a lot more, but that is what a typical developer would have to do. City Administrator Dickinson reminded the Council that the point here is they have a contractor in the field. Councilmember Jacobson stated that Mr. Holasekjust has to make a decision on whether he wants to pay $15,000 and develop now, or ifhe wants to wait for the other sewer line. Mr. Holasek asked if there would be a credit of$15,000 on the trunk fee, since this would not be a trunk. City Administrator Dickinson indicated the other costs are based on an area charge, and acreage in an area Mayor Gamache noted there is still going to be a trunk on 150th. City Engineer Berkowitz added that trunk area charges do not only pay for the trunk they pay for lift stations, etc., as well. Councilmember Orttel stated that what bothers him is the changing of the districts. He indicated that even with the fee he is concerned. He stated that maybe this corrects lines that could have been done better when the plan was developed, but he believes there are properties to the south that will think they should be able to develop sooner, and are going to ask. He asked what they could tell those property owners. , l Councilmember Jacobson stated that Mr. Holasek will still pay area charges for the trunk. He indicated this is an extra cost to accelerate the service now. Councilmember Knight commented that the extra cost is associated with artificial lines. City Engineer Berkowitz stated maybe to a point, but service is available through the 150th sewer line, and now they are saying they are going to add to the trunk costs by providing a second option. He indicated that the City does not usually provide more than one option, and it is not figured in when you do a trunk fee analysis. .' Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 6 \ Councilmember Orttel indicated when they develop districts they try to keep the lines straight and tidy, and he believes Councilmember Knight's point is that maybe those lines should not be neat and tidy. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that when they did the study, they heard that Mr. Holasek was not ready to develop. Mr. Holasek indicated that Staff is saying the cost is because he wants to accelerate development, but other areas in Country Oaks West and Miller's Woods were really accelerated. He stated Constance Church was not even in the MUSA area, and they did not pay anything extra there. He indicated he has no objection to paying what is fair, but this was not charged for any other area. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated there are lift station fees above the area trunk fees and those in the lift station area have to pay. Mr. Holasek stated if they put in a lift station, they would pay that, but they are not putting in a lift station. Councilmember Jacobson indicated if Mr. Holasek wants to develop these lots in the next two to three years, the pipe needs to be lower. He stated if Mr. Holasek does not want to pay for that, he will have to wait the ten to fifteen years for the other sewer line. / Mr. Holasek stated that two of his three options are not economically feasible, and on principle it is unfair to ask him to pay double for this. He stated that is his position. Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Orttel, to allow Mr. Holasek to pay $15,000 by the close of business Friday, August 26,2005 to the City, or ifhe chooses not to pay this amount, to direct the contractor to install the pipe at the depth originally determined in the feasibility plans. Mr. Holasek asked if there could be a deferment on the amount until the property develops. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they would have to go through a deferment process for that, which would take some time. City Administrator Dickinson advised that an assessment process would be the way to go, including a development agreement with index. Councilmember Orttel asked if Mr. Holasek signed a letter saying he accepts the assessment for $15,000 to be paid when the property develops, if they could move forward. Councilmember Jacobson suggested they have Mr. Holasek give the City a check that they could hold until the assessment process is completed. City Administrator Dickinson indicated that would be acceptable. Councilmember Orttel stated he used to think it was simple, but he is not sure it is. He understands Mr. Holasek's concern that this is additional cost, but if the only option is that he pays the cost or the public pays for it, Mr. Holasek has to pay it. City Engineer Berkowitz clarified they are looking at deferring the assessment. Councilmember Orttel indicated he would be fine with a regular assessment or deferring it. Mayor Gamache noted they need cash in hand by Friday. Motion carried. Vote: 3: 1 Councilmember Knight opposed. SOPHIE'S SOUTH DE-WATERING ) Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 7 , City Engineer Berkowitz advised that the developer is de-watering through the pond. He stated it outlets through the cul-de-sac, and into the pond that they call the Stygoff pond. It then works into the Oak Bluff pond, through the Xeon area, and into the creek. Staffhas monitored the de-watering closely, but the problem is there are retaining walls, fire pits, etc. in the drainage path. He commented that someone turned off the pumps over the weekend. The de-watering company is now using pumps and pipes, and the water is not at basement levels. Councilmember Jacobson asked ifthe de-watering raised the water level of Winslow's pond. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated it did not. The problem has been from retaining walls and other encroachments. Over the years when there is a dry basin, people plant and use the area. The City has always said if you are building or planting in utility easements, it is at your own risk. Councilmember Jacobson asked if there is any potential for flooding. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated there was one area by StygoffPond that was backing up, but they sand bagged that area. Mr. Holasek indicated he does not think the water is going through there now. He stated he did hear from Ron Smolek, who said his garden was flooded. I Councilmember Knight asked if the water would ever reach these levels with a 100 year event. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they would and they are within the 100 year event area Councilmember Orttel asked if the de-watering was about done. City Engineer Berkowitz stated there is some lateral that still has to go in. He indicated there were four pumps, but they are down to two. He commented that the process is functioning properly. Jim McLauglin, 1424 1520d Lane, indicated that he was the first house in that development. He stated he put rock in there and was told that was the high water line~ He indicated the water is now over the rock and in his grass. He does not think it is fair that a contractor can flood them for his development. He indicated that storm water sewer is for storms, not developers. He stated a lot of people are getting more water than he is, and he does not think it is fair that a contractor can pump water and flood them. Councilmember Orttel asked if there were ditches that the water could be pumped into. City Engineer Berkowitz stated the City does not have utility easements in any of the ditches, so they would need the property owner's permission. He noted they are working with Mr. Holasek. Mayor Gamache asked if these systems are set up for this. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated it is within the utility easement. He noted that any time they do de-watering they get phone calls. / Barry Malm, 1411 1520d Lane stated that what City Engineer Berkowitz said is technically accurate. He indicated this pond has sixteen homes on it, and they are not the cheapest homes in Andover. He stated there is significant damage taking place in this process. He indicated there are hundreds of thousands of gallons going through there. If Staff says this was meant to handle a 100 year event, what happens if this fills up and we get a big rain. He indicated their homes could flood. He sees J Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 8 Staffs position, but thinks it could have been routed elsewhere. He indicated over the last few weeks he lost a 20 foot spruce, or he will. He admitted he is encroaching in the utility easement, but stated he built this eleven years ago, and the pond has always been low. He stated the 100 year area is huge, and if the Council saw the amount of water they are talking about they would be surprised. Councilmember Knight asked if the de-watering could be done at a slower rate. City Engineer Berkowitz stated they are slowing it down, and are down to two pumps. He indicated they are also using a bypass pump to help the area. They are also meeting with Mr. Holasek tomorrow to look at other options. Mr. MaIm indicated that if it is an option to go along the tracks, even at a fee that the developer could pay, it should be looked at. He does not think anyone knew the amount of water they would be dealing with in this process. Mr. McLaugWin indicated they have been monitoring the outlet and keeping it clean, or it would be even worse. He noted that as Mr. Malm said, they have nice homes along there, and everyone takes pride in this pond. J Mayor Gamache asked if they have knowledge before these projects start on how much water they will be pumping. City Engineer Berkowitz stated it has to be identified in the application. Councilmember Jacobson noted that in the Administration report it said this was going to happen, and that Staff would monitor the process. He always assumes in these situations it is going okay, but he had heard there were some concerns. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they would work with the developer to come up with a solution. Mr. Holasek stated there is a culvert to the east in the ditch that is about one-third full. He indicated he checked it over the weekend. He stated it goes from his property to County property, so they may need a permit, but he will meet with Staff tomorrow to look at it. Mr. McLaugWin stated that one other problem is the water sits here and seems to take the oxygen out of the soil which makes it sink down, causing another repair situation. RURAL RESERVE PLANNING (CONT.) Community Development Director Neumeister confirmed the process, noting the steps are methodical. He indicated that the key understanding is they will have a joint meeting with the Planning Commission and the City Council on density and land use. He thinks it is important that takes place as the City Council feels strongly about it. Councilmember Jacobson thinks the key is that they have some agricultural reserve property here, and it is important that they know if the developers buying that property will be pulling it out all at once, or in stages. He does not want a patchwork situation. Community Development Director Neumeister stated that will be addressed in Step 3. J Special Andover City Council Workshop Afeeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 9 Councilmember Orttel indicated he spent some time with a major player out there, and he thinks things are further down the road then they are being led to believe. He thinks development of this area is more imminent. Community Development Director Neumeister thinks two to two and a half years is what they are thinking, and when the City would be ready. City Administrator Dickinson stated he has talked to three or four development companies, and he thinks the important thing is to treat each one individually until they share more information with the City. They cannot treat them all as one. Councilmember Orttel asked if they would invite the key players to that meeting. Community Development Director Neumeister stated they can, and they did that when he worked in Blaine, but he would suggest they be invited to hear what the Planning Commission and City Council have to say, but not to participate. Councilmember Knight asked in looking at Blaine, if the design came from the developers or from the City. Community Development Director Neumeister stated he thinks the developers did more. He indicated that is why determining land use and density needs to be determined now, so the Planning Commission knows what direction the Council wants them to go. Councilmember Jacobson stated he would not object to three or four of the main players being present, but he agreed density is the key. "\ J City Administrator Dickinson indicated that one thing the developers have that the City does not have is soil borings. Councilmember Jacobson agreed, but noted they could say they want three roads exiting onto such and such a road. Community Development Director Neumeister stated it will require some land swaps and partnerships because some of these curved roads will not line up. Councilmember Orttel stated that if the City can tell the developer where they want the road to come out onto the county road the developer can determine the interior path. Community Development Director Neumeister stated that is where step three will come in and be real important. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated that Step Four is where they can start critiquing plans. He stated the Council may want part in that with the Planning Commission also. Councilmember Jacobson agreed, stating they do not want to let it get too far down the road before the Council has a say in it. Mayor Gamache suggested they may want to consider monthly joint meetings when that time comes. , / Community Development Director Neumeister stated that by Step Five they will get more detail. He indicated they may want to establish new standards for development by creating a new district. City Administrator Dickinson advised this is basically the concept of creating a covenant where the City has input. Councilmember Orttel asked how they do that without violating fair housing laws. City Administrator Dickinson indicated they can set minimums of what is required. Mayor Gamache thinks they are more concerned about multi-family housing. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated they can set minimum requirements for I Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 10 multi-family also. Councilmember Orttel stated that unfortunately, multi-family housing does not sell out here. Councilmember Knight asked if the Metropolitan Council will have to be involved. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated that is Step Six. Councilmember Jacobson asked when an update to their Comprehensive Plan is required. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated it is required by 2008. He indicated this would be an amendment, and not a full plan update. Councilmember Knight asked who decided in Blaine where the lakes would be. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated the developers decided because of the sandy soils. They needed to build them up to build on them, and that is also why some of this is up to the developer. He indicated that they will have to help decide what soils they can build on. He noted this is a gradual process, and they will continue to keep the City Council informed. \ Mayor Gamache asked for the transportation plan, if they will use the last plan, and if the agricultural reserve area is included. City Engineer Berkowitz stated it is included. Mayor Gamache stated he is worried about areas that are on cul-de-sacs on one acre lots. He asked if they really want to tie those into new development. He would prefer they route traffic around those existing neighborhoods. , , Community Development Director Neumeister stated that since the last discussion he thought they may need to bring the school district in here. With this number of families, the City will need to know if another elementary school is needed. Councilmember Knight asked if they would get regular updates. Community Development Director Neumeister stated they would. He indicated when they get to the AUAR process it will be a more lengthy process, and they will want to have a plan in place before they submit the AUAR. He advised that during that process they can create several scenarios with higher densities and lower densities so they are not locked in. Councilmember Orttel stated that the Metropolitan Council will want higher ones. He indicated their history with Andover is that they will want more density. He stated that may be okay for the AUAR, but when you get to planning the amendment they will want lower density. City Administrator Dickinson stated that the problem is developers will want it approved at the higher density so there are not major delays during construction season waiting for paperwork. '\ ) Councilmember Jacobson stated that the question is after you take out roads and wetlands and easements, etc., how many units are left. Community Development Director Neumeister stated they have been trying to get at that; whether it is a net density number or a gross density. Councilmember Knight stated that his concern is that the Metropolitan Council will require multi-family housing, and this area does not lend itself to that type of housing. Community \ Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 11 , , Development Director Neumeister stated they have heard a number of three units per acre. He indicated if that is a net number he thinks it would be along the lines of what the Council is thinking. CONSIDER V ARlOUS TABLED CITY CODE REVISIONS Community Development Director Neumeister stated that these are three code revisions that were tabled for various reasons. He tried to provide options, noting that Councilmember Jacobson had a concern about height. Councilmember Jacobson stated that the way it reads now, if dealing with a church or a school, which is allowed in any district, they could go up to 35 feet without a conditional use permit. He stated the way it was proposed they could go up to 45 feet without a conditional use permit. City Administrator Dickinson noted only in districts where buildings are allowed to 45 feet. Community Development Director Neumeister stated there are areas where 35 feet is the maximum. \ Councilmember Knight asked if the 45 feet includes a steeple. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated it does not; the steeple could be higher. Fire Chief Winkel believes it says now they can go to 35 feet with the last 10 feet being only mechanical. He indicated the fire department is starting to get concerned that they cannot reach the top. The high school is the latest exception, and a variance was granted for their staging area. Community Development Director Neumeister stated that he thinks Constance Free Church exceeded the height also. / Councilmember Jacobson asked where the 45 feet came from. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated Staff felt that was all they could handle for the area. Councilmember Orttel suggested they allow 35 feet, and anything over that would require a conditional use permit. He asked about the height of the Presbyterian Homes. Fire Chief Winkel indicated they are about to the maximum height, but they are also fully sprinkled. Mayor Gamache stated he likes Councilmember Orttel's idea. Community Development Director Neumeister stated Staff would amend the matrix to say that over 35 feet requires a conditional use permit. He indicated the shopping center location requirements are next. He stated it was handled in revision #16. They created new names and new restrictions, and felt like it was dealt with and did not need many subpoints on page 5, as it was covered in other sections. He stated page 7 is building heights, where four items need to be addressed. Community Development Director Neumeister advised that this section allows all structures to exceed the maximum height allowed by City Code 12-3-4 with a conditional use permit under certain circumstances. He stated that a line item needs to be added to the proposed uses matrix of City Code 12-13 to show that principal structures are eligible for a CUP to increase the maximum height. / Community Development Director Neumeister indicated that the height of accessory structures is regulated by City Code 12-6. He indicated that building height regulations need to be applied to the \ Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 12 ) principal structure. He stated the point is that it is not applied to accessory structures. Community Development Director Neumeister indicated that point 3 is that height regulations are dimensional standards that need to be located in City Code 12-3-4 Minimum District Requirements. Exemptions from height limitations are currently provided in 12-4-5 F. He indicated that this section needs to be edited. Staff is also proposing to remove monuments and smokestacks from this list. He stated the section needs to be moved with the section concerning height to City Code 12-3-4. Councilmember Jacobson asked why they were removing that section. Staff indicated they are not sure, and Councilmember Orttel suggested they bring that section back. City Administrator Dickinson stated they will bring these changes back to the September 6th Council meeting, and are only looking for consensus now. DISCUSS 2006-2010 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN (CONT.) City Administrator Dickinson advised that this is an update from the July 28th meeting. He stated that these are the changes, ongoing research, and notations made since then. He reviewed that vehicle replacement justification should not mention 'scheduled replacement'. He indicated all / vehicle replacements should be justified with a) increased maintenance issues/costs, b) safety issues or lack thereof, c) etc. He stated department updating of the narratives is ongoing. Councilmember Orttel indicated they should also have peak disposal values. City Administrator Dickinson indicated they would add in trade-in values. City Administrator Dickinson stated that the second is the City Hall Garage Expansion. He indicated they will keep it in the CIP, but bring it back to Council before building. He stated next is the Fire Station #1 Auxiliary Generator, and they will see if they can purchase and install one with the remaining bond proceeds. Councilmember Jacobson questioned if they could buy one. City Administrator Dickinson stated they have enough bond proceeds to purchase one. He indicated the question is if protection around the generator would be a lesser structure than a building. Councilmember Jacobson asked what they would do with the current generator. Fire Chief Winkel indicated it would go back to Public Works. Councilmember Jacobson stated his concern is where you would house it on the outside, noting that the original amount for this was huge. Fire Chief Winkel stated the original structure and cost were proposed because they did not know what the City Council would require. He indicated if it were brick like the building, it could be expensive. He stated they are now looking at a self-contained unit that would sit outside. J Councilmember Orttel asked if it would be a heated structure. Fire Chief Winkel indicated that would depend on the fuel source. City Administrator Dickinson stated they need City Council direction to know if they would feel comfortable getting this done this year. Councilmember Orttel would like an estimate for a slanted roof structure with brick around it. He indicated he does not / Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 13 think it would look very nice just sitting outside. Councilmember Jacobson noted it is not a big unit. Councilmember Knight asked if it would last longer if it were covered. City Administrator Dickinson said it is possible, but they would probably want to replace it in 20 years covered or not. He stated they will bring this back to the second meeting in September with a proposal and cost. City Administrator Dickinson noted that the Mezzanine Area, Building A, has a project cost reduction from $27,000 to $20,000. The Public Works Development Planning project budget was reduced from $25,000 to $10,000. City Administrator Dickinson stated that all of the fIre trucks will be moved out at least one year. He indicated the lawn sweeper would be revisited to determine the necessity for this type of equipment, and whether the amount of use substantiates the expenditure. He noted this would be addressed when the Public Works Director returns after Labor Day. The final item is the Crosstown Boulevard and Nightingale Street intersection, which was lowered from $500,000 to $150,000. Councilmember Jacobson asked what you can get for $150,000. City Administrator Dickinson indicated they would install a right turn lane coming southwest on Crosstown and a bypass lane J going northeast on Crosstown. Councilmember Knight asked what they will do for traffic going south on Nightingale. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they will at least have the benefit of a wider intersection. Councilmember Orttel asked what the speed limit is at that intersection. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated it is 45 all the way through Andover. He admitted this is just a band-aid. They actually have been told that Crosstown has a better chance of getting federal funding than Hanson. Councilmember Jacobson indicated his concern is that they will put $150,000 into it, and then in a few years will still have to completely re-do the intersection. City Administrator Dickinson stated that could be true. He indicated that keeping it in the CIP just preserves the option so they can keep reviewing it for benefit. Mayor Gamache asked about a three-way stop at that intersection. City Engineer Berkowitz stated it will not meet the warrants, and the County will not put one up if it does not meet the warrants. Mayor Gamache asked what the warrants were, asking if they meant the traffic delays. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that is a factor. City Administrator Dickinson stated that the benefIt is that if someone is in the right turn lane, you know they are turning right. He indicated that is something traffic does not have now. City Engineer Berkowitz stated there is a little relief with the bypass lane, and the right turn lane; it gives a little room at that intersection. \ ) Mayor Gamache asked if there is any value in looking at squaring this intersection. City . Administrator Dickinson stated they will continue to study it and will bring it back. \ Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 14 2006 BUDGET DISCUSSION (CONT.) City Administrator Dickinson reviewed the City Council's 2006 Budget Development guidelines as follows: I. A commitment to maintain the City Tax Rate Capacity in a manner consistent with the needs of the organization to ensure the long-term competitiveness, efficiency, staffing and capital requirements. City Administrator Dickinson stated that at the last meeting the Council said not more than 2 ~ %, and that is what they are doing. 2. A fiscal goal that works toward establishing the General Fund balance for working capital at no less than 35% of planned 2006 General Fund expenditures. City Administrator Dickinson stated he has it at 34%, but they are actually over 35% so this is okay. 3. A commitment to maintain the 2006 debt levy at no more than 25% ofthe total levy. 4. A comprehensive review of the condition of capital equipment to ensure that the most cost- effective replacement schedule is followed. 5. A team approach that encourages strategic planning to meet immediate and long-term operational, staffmg, infrastructure and facility needs. 6. A management philosophy that actively supports the implementation of Council policies and goals, and recognizes the need to be responsive to changing community conditions/concerns. ) Councilmember Jacobson asked if on page 3, #2, they should look at HSA for health insurance benefits. City Administrator Dickinson indicated they have looked at it, and will look at it again at the next review. Councilmember Jacobson stated there seems to be more cities and companies going that way. Councilmember Jacobson asked about the pay to volunteers of $205,000. City Administrator Dickinson indicated that is the volunteer fIre department, which receives retirement benefits. City Administrator Dickinson stated that the proposed 2006 Budget requests new staffing to be supported by the tax levy as follows: 1. The Fire Department is requesting two full-time fire fighters/inspectors. 2. The Public Utilities Department is requesting two full-time maintenance personnel. He stated that currently, two employees are maintaining both the sanitary sewer and storm sewer systems. He indicated that with the amount of time needed to be in compliance with NPDES, maintenance in other areas has been lacking. He stated that with the constant expansion of city utilities and the amount of work required to maintain the infrastructure, an additional crew is requested. Funding for these positions will include a request for an increase in the Storm Water Utility fee. ) Councilmember Orttel asked what the storm water utility fee is now. City Administrator Dickinson stated it is approximately $5.44 per household. Councilmember Orttel stated it would then be reasonable to put these salaries into those costs. City Administrator Dickinson agreed, stating the staff may work on more than storm water utility systems. Councilmember Orttel asked about the grant for the Fire Department. City Administrator Dickinson \ Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 15 / explained that federal grant dollars are capped at $3 6,000 per position in year one, and diminishing over the next five years with the City funding the position by year six. He stated if the grant were awarded to the City of Andover for both positions, the City's share would be $46,360 for 2006. Councilmember Orttel asked how they could staff two people for .25 cents per residential household. City Administrator Dickinson stated they have had some equipment upgrades that will change how they operate also. He indicated they put a .25 cent to .50 cent range. City Administrator Dickinson stated that the total salary compensation package proposes a 3% across the board cost-of-living increase, and the utilization ofapproxirnately $25,000 to bring into market positions that are not competitive with industry standards. City Administrator Dickinson indicated that various departments will indicate changes in the personal services line item due to a reallocation of staffing to the respective departments. He stated that the most significant allocation changes will be in Protective Inspection, Public Works, Planning, Administration, and Finance departments. He indicated the Public Works allocations are now more reflective of actual; Protective Inspection Department reflecting staffing shifts; and the Administration, Planning & Finance allocation reflecting a reduction in the amount oftime charged to the EDA budget. He stated they knew they would have to wean themselves off the EDA budget. \ ) City Administrator Dickinson stated that the City Attorney budget reflects a 4% contract increase and a slight modification to accommodate legal expenses that are not covered under the retainer agreement. Mayor Gamache asked if the modification to accommodate legal expenses was criminal work. City Administrator Dickinson indicated it is not; it is questions they cannot charge back to developments. City Administrator Dickinson indicated that the Anoka County Sheriffs contract reflects an 11.9% increase. He stated the increase reflects a full year of an additional deputy that was started mid-year in 2005, and additional replacement and maintenance costs for the new 800 MHz service. City Administrator Dickinson stated it is also proposed that a 2006 G.O. Equipment Certificate be issued to fund 2006 equipment purchases with the debt levy for this bond to start in 2007. Councilmember Orttel asked why they are pushing this off. City Administrator Dickinson stated the City will have the other note falling off, so they are tying the two events together. He advised they will present page 8, the levy numbers, at the September meeting to certify to the County. He stated those numbers go lower, but cannot go higher. ) Councilmember Orttel asked what the percentage is of increase. City Administrator Dickinson explained that if you look under the Gross City Levy, it says 13.16%, with a levy of$8,550,000. He stated that what they will receive will be $475,000 less, so that number will drop down to about 7 ~%. 'I Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 16 Councilmember Orttel stated it would seem like the percentage would go up because they have to make up that amount. City Administrator Dickinson stated these are the numbers they have to do for Truth-in-taxation, even though they know they will not collect that amount. Councilmember Orttel asked if this contemplates the withdrawal of limited market value. City Administrator Dickinson indicated that some residents will see a huge increase regardless. He stated they will have some people that have a 15% increase, and there is nothing they can do about that. Councilmember Orttel stated that unfortunately according to those people, there is something the Council can do. Councilmember Knight stated that 7 ~% will seem high to some. City Administrator Dickinson stated that 7 1/2 % is the gross levy amount. He indicated the City will see some growth, so many will not see that increased amount. He stated when they get to the truth-in-taxation hearing he is comfortable explaining the figures. Councilmember Jacobson noted that Mr. Dickinson may be comfortable explaining it, but the Council is going to hear from the people about what they will get for their extra money. , I Councilmember Orttel stated this is a gross amount, so the people who built a few years ago may not see muchofan increase. Most of the increase will come from the 50 to 60% of the homes that have been around awhile. Councilmember Knight suggested Staff put an explanatory letter in the newsletter about the increase. He stated a lot of people do not see the meetings on TV, and without some explanation these numbers will seem scary to people. City Administrator Dickinson stated they could do that as the time gets closer. He indicated he has a great explanation of limited market value, which really helped answer questions last year. Councilmember Knight commented that everyone gets the newsletter, and he suggested they use that communication vehicle. Mayor Gamache agreed that after City Administrator Dickinson talked to residents last year they understood the process better. City Administrator Dickinson stated you have to explain it, because truth-in-taxation will show double digits, which will scare people. TRANSPORTATION FUNDING Community Development Director Neumeister advised that this is a continuation of the discussions on transportation funding. He reviewed the first task, which states that the City will require developments to provide traffic impact studies at the discretion of the City Council. It further states that Staff will write up a policy that will become part of the Transportation Plan. / Councilmember Jacobson asked ifit is a good idea to have it at the discretion of the City Council, or if it should be more set than that. Councilmember Orttel suggested they say that anything that is 10 lots or under would pay a fee and use other studies done rather than do their own. Community Development Director Neumeister stated they could come up with some thresholds that \ . / Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 17 the City Council would approve to establish a base. He indicated they could possibly set the base limit so they would not get an individual traffic study from small development. Councilmember Jacobson stated that the small developments should still pay, they just would not need a study for five or ten lots. Councilmember Orttel asked if it would be better if the City did the traffic study and charged for it. He stated the bigger issue is what they are funding. He asked if you need a traffic light for the next development, do you charge that developer. Community Development Director Neumeister stated that Sophie's South is a good example. He indicated that he would say they need upgrades to the intersection, but it would have been pertinent to their portion of road. Councilmember Jacobson asked how far away from a development they are asking people to fund. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that so far they are asking only for the area adjacent to the developing property. Councilmember Knight indicated that is a good point, because the rural reserve will have a huge impact and certain intersections. \ ) Councilmember Orttel asked why the City is getting involved, questioning ifit was the County and developer's problem. City Engineer Berkowitz stated the City tries to be the middleman to make sure it gets done accurately. He indicated they look at thoroughfares and also county roads when there is a safety concern. Councilmember Jacobson asked how they would figure the road impact from a church that has traffic on Sundays and maybe Wednesday nights. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they would do a traffic study and see what improvements would be needed just for the church, and what improvements are needed for the intersection. The City could then compare the two needs and decide whether they will contribute to the cost and get the improvements done. Councilmember Knight asked what criteria the City Attorney will use in Task 4. Community Development Director Neumeister explained the nexus test. City Administrator Dickinson stated this is the same concept as the Park Dedication Fee; the City has to do exactly what they say they will do in a certain amount of time in order to collect the money. He indicated Andover got a good education from the Country Joe case in Eagan about this, and has had some litigation over the years that have shown that Andover is handling it correctly. Councilmember Orttel stated that his idea ofthis, using the rural reserve as an example where there are three to five main players, they would try to accommodate a program so the roads could be built even though the development may be haphazard, and each developer would have to fund parts ofthe road so they all get put in. J City Engineer Berkowitz stated that as development goes in, the developer will build to the end of his property. He indicated the major improvements will be around the edges, and anything internal would go through the nexus test. He stated there would be an area charge collected so the roads could be built. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 18 City Administrator Dickinson noted that internal roads would be built by the developers, but over- sizing of roads and improvements for developments further out will be paid by these fees, as well as by the County, etc. Councilmember Jacobson stated he can see this working for the rural reserve, but when there are small parcels it gets harder. City Administrator Dickinson agreed, stating that one thing they will see is as they are developing the road trunk fund, the fund may invest in roads now and be replenished with future development. Community Development Director Neumeister stated it is the same situation with lift stations. He indicated it would not be fair to make one developer pay for the whole thing. He stated this gives them a way to go to the County and tell them not to just put an improvement on their CIP as unfunded. He indicated they could say that if the County pays 50%, the City will collect the other 50%. He stated the other comment they have discussed is if they cannot do this, the city should not be growing. He indicated they have to design the roadway network so the County can look at it and get it on their board. He stated they cannot leave it all to the County or it will not get done. / Councilmember Orttel stated he agrees, indicating that is what other cities do. Community Development Director Neumeister stated this covers the five tasks he thought they had from the April meeting. He indicated Task 3 will be very difficult, but Staff will keep the City Council informed as they do it. He stated the rural reserve will be the easiest to do, but it is the same principle that will be used on the east. DISCUSS FENCING / RETAINING WALL PERMITS Mayor Gamache thinks it makes sense to have a permit for fences. Councilmember Orttel stated he is surprised they do not requiTe one already. Mayor Gamache asked what the minimum permit cost could be. City Administrator Dickinson stated that $50 is really the minimum, which would include review and inspection. Councilmember Orttel stated his concern is if someone wants to put up a retaining wall, they will need to get a survey, which is expensive. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated if the wall is below four feet, they do not need an engineering design review, but over four feet already requires one. Councilmember Jacobson asked if Staff is really only interested in things not being built in the wetlands. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated wetlands and drainage and utility easements. He stated he has pictures of 50 foot tall pines planted over storm sewer pipes. ) Councilmember Jacobson stated if the City has an easement, the homeowner cannot build in it. Councilmember Orttel indicated the problem is that they do, and there is nothing worse than making a homeowner tear something down. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they just had one in a wetland that had to be torn down at a cost to the homeowner of $2000 to $5000. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 19 Councilmember Knight asked why they could not make the permit fee only $10. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated they would be looking at half an hour of Staff time, and then an inspection. He stated $50 would barely cover it. Mayor Gamache asked if easements are not marked on a survey. City Engineer Berkowitz stated they are, but homeowners do not always understand that. He indicated homeowners often think that their property line is their property line. ARC did not want to go to a permit process so they put together a hand out, but that is not working. Mayor Gamache indicated that with the homeowners they had here tonight it was understandable, because it was a very gradual slope. City Engineer Berkowitz noted that it shows on their surveys that it is a drainage and utility easement area, and is very clear. Brian Kraabel indicated that if someone is not the original owner, they probably do not have the survey. He stated they are seeing structures and landscaping everywhere, and sometimes there is no way for staff to get to these public areas. City Engineer Berkowitz added that it has cost the City at times to repair the landscaping as well. Councilmember Jacobson asked why the City is paying for repair if the homeowner is not supposed to have anything there. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated mainly for goodwilL Mayor Gamache stated they need a way to get communication to the people. He indicated they have a pond right now that is flooded. They could take video of that and say this is what happens when you build in an easement. They could put it on cable, and on the City's website so people can see it first hand. He thinks they need a permit system. Councilmember Orttel suggested they could send a letter to those in violation and let them know if there is a problem in the future they may be out ofluck. Brian Kraabel stated they had a situation recently with a pond that had a retaining wall around it. He indicated they had to get access from the northerly property owner to get access to the pond, which was very difficult. Councilmember Jacobson agreed they could send a letter noting the violation, and let the property owner know that if the City has to get into the area in the future, the resident will have to take down the imposing structure, or the City will at the homeowner's expense. Councilmember Knight stated part of this is human nature. They are looking at the pond in their backyard and try to beautify it, which is natural. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated he planted wildflowers next to his pond, so if the water table comes up all he loses is flowers. Mayor Gamache stated they need to give residents those other options. Brian KIaabel thinks they need to inspect the end result, which will cost the City more than $10. He indicated homeowners will try to encroach as much as they can. Councilmember Jacobson stated that is why the City should send them a letter to protect the City in the future from paying for repairs. Mayor Gamache asked how other cities handle this issue. City Engineer Berkowitz stated that Lino Lakes charges $48, and an additional $30 for an encroachment in easement agreement, if allowed. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 20 He agreed it could get spendy, and if someone does not have a survey it would be even more. City Administrator Dickinson asked if the direction is to move forward with getting a full permit process in place and bring back fee recommendations to the Council. Councilmember Orttel indicated he would rather only see this used in sensitive areas. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that makes it difficult, because in some cases there will be a dry pond. He stated the City allows chain link fence in those, because when there is water, it goes through the fence. Councilmember Jacobson stated he is not in favor ofthis type of fee and inspection. He thinks they should take a kinder, gentler approach and send a letter to let people know that if it has to be torn up, the City is not going to repair it. Councilmember Orttel stated he agrees with that on existing situations, but asked how they could handle new requests. He does not want more being put in. City Engineer Berkowitz indicated that if a property owner has to remove and re-install a fence or a retaining wall it could cost them thousands of dollars. He stated a $50 permit would be better for them. " Community Development Director Neumeister indicated this is a major hand-holding situation. He stated if it gets built, there will be bad feelings because the City let them build it. He indicated the good communication efforts they have tried in the last three years have not done anything. He stated there could be a need for more manpower if they do this. .' City Engineer Berkowitz stated that in a lot of cases, a builder will not build a wall, and at final grading will say he needs one. He noted that other times the wall will go in after the home is already built. Staff would like to keep it as simple as possible; they just want to get the information to homeowners so they know what is allowed. Councilmember Jacobson asked what they could do about the ones already out there. Brian Kraabel stated they just have to talk to the homeowners so they know ifthe fence has to come out, the City will not put it back in. He indicated the biggest concern is heading this off so they do not have to deal with new ones. Mayor Gamache asked Staff to fmd out what kinds of permits are used in surrounding cities. Councilmember Jacobson suggested they consider a two-tiered system, where if a homeowner comes in and shows Staff the location and there is nothing close to it, the permit is just approved. He stated if there is something close by, an inspection is done and the higher fee is charged. City Engineer Berkowitz stated they will bring information back to a future meeting. OTHER BUSINESS ) Community Development Director Neumeister indicated that a Planning Associate noted that there has been a lot of improper signage up around the city. He asked how the Council wanted them handled, noting that the business owners do not get a permit; they just keep putting them up. He stated the signs are allowed for 30 days, but are kept up a lot longer. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2005 Page 21 Councilmember Jacobson indicated that the ordinance needs to be enforced. Motion by Orttel, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 10:28 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Karen Bucklen, Recording Secretary /