HomeMy WebLinkAboutJCC January 24, 2005
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1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100
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Special Joint City Council/Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Monday, January 24,2005
Council Chambers
1. Call to Order - 7:00 p.m.
2. Discuss Andover Station North Park Facility - Andover Baseball Association
3. Update on 2005 Softball/Baseball Scheduling
4. Discuss Usage Fee for Youth Tournaments
5. Discuss the 2005-2009 CIP
a. Discuss Lund's North Park & Prairie Knoll Park Lighting of Fields
6. Discuss Park Dedication Credit for Country Oaks West
7. Discuss Advertisements on Park Property
8. Andover Station South Park Dedication Allocation
9. Other Business
10. Adjournment
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SPECIAL JOINT ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL/ PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION
MEETING - JANUARY 24, 2005
MINUTES
The Special Joint Meeting of the Andover City Council/ Park and Recreation Commission was
called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache, January 24, 2005, 7:01 p.m., at the Andover City Hall,
1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present:
Councilmembers absent:
Commissioners Present:
Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, and Julie Trude
None
Dan Masloski, Dave Blackstad, Devon Walton, Meg Dudgeon and
Ernest Bedor (arrived at 7:05 p.m.).
Denise McNeff, Jim Lindahl
City Finance Director, Jim Dickinson
Parks Coordinator, Todd Haas
City Engineer, David Berkowitz
Others
Commissioners Absent:
Also present:
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DISCUSS ANDOVER STATION NORTH PARK FACILITY - ANDOVER BASEBALL
ASSOCIATION
Mr. Haas explained that this item has been requested by the Andover Baseball Association to be on
the agenda. The Association has donated $40,000 towards the development of the park and would
like the City to move forward with beginning to construct this project yet this summer. Mr. Haas
pointed out that in reviewing the CIP, it is identified for 2009. If the project were to move forward
this summer, the earliest the fields may be ready is 2007.
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Mr. Deitz, President of the Andover Baseball Association, stated the Association has donated
$40,000 toward the development of the park and has the intent of donating another $30,000. Their
concerns were moving this up in the timetable. He noted they have limited field resources for the
older kids, with only one full size field in the City available for the older kids to use. He stated they
need to rent fields, but the problem with those fields is that they are not fenced fields. It is their goal
to get this project moving forward with 300 foot fields, which would be true baseball fields and not
multi-purpose fields. The Baseball Association did not use the current fields, except for five
tournaments a year. He indicated currently, they have 600 kids between 8-12 year olds and they want
to give them some fields to play on that are respectable fields. It is their goal to also have a facility
that could be used by the high school students also. He noted football and soccer could also use the
field when they are not using them. Having additional fields would also give the existing field a
break in between sports. Local businesses in the community had also expressed interest in helping
out.
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Special Joint Andover City Council / Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - January 24, 2005
Page 2
Commissioner Bedor asked if the existing fields could have fences added. Mr. Deitz responded
they could not put in a fence because it is owned by the School District. He indicated they had
offered to pay for the fence, but the School District did not want it. Last year they had to turn
away kids because they could not provide sufficient facilities. He stated when they went to
tournaments, they played on nice fields and he wants to be able to say they have the same type of
facilities in this community. There are a lot of positives to having this type of a facility.
Currently the total of kids they have playing baseball is approximately 860 and they expect this to
grow annually.
Councilmember Orttel asked what the cost of an outfield fence is. Mr. Deitz replied they had not
priced this out, but they had looked at another field at Hidden Creek and a ten to twenty foot
fence down each side was approximately $4,000.
Councilmember Orttel asked if the problem with not having a fence is delineation or losing balls.
Mr. Deitz replied those are part of the problem and there is also the issue of people walking into
the field as games are being played.
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Councilmember Orttel stated they need to look at the existing fields they have to see if they could
convert or renovate them which would be considerably cheaper than adding new fields. He
believed it would be cheaper to rent fields than build their own. Mr. Deitz replied their issue is
that they need a whole field to compete competitively. They will lose kids because they will not
be able to provide appropriate fields. He indicated they would need to share the high school
fields. It is their goal to grow the baseball association into the top-notch association around and
they cannot do that with inadequate facilities.
Councilmember Knight pointed out there are many other communities that do not have separate
facilities. Mr. Deitz responded they were not looking for the City to pay for this 100%, but they
needed land and the go ahead to put the baseball fields in.
Mayor Gamache stated they need to figure how development would go forward and the question
is how to grade the whole area, and get in sewer and water.
Mr. Dickinson stated they had talked to the EDA, and the EDA had a desire to pursue the
completion of Jay St., ifit is financially feasible. He stated the residential component is solid
and the land sale over the course of time would be 1.5 million dollars. The total improvements
of Jay St. came close to 3.7 million dollars and if everything goes well, he forecast 2007 would
be the earliest the fields could be available. They need to identify where the fields would be and
how they would layout. He asked if the layout and design presented was appropriate, or was the
design the Parks Commission saw over a year ago the design they want to proceed with.
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Mr. Berkowitz presented the current plan for the layout of the fields.
Chairman Blackstad asked if they could not put in fencing at the high school and Oakview to
satisfy the immediate needs. Mr. Deitz replied the fields would still be too small.
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Mayor Gamache asked how field size affected grading. Mr. Berkowitz stated they want to make
sure the fields drain properly, which is their main concern.
Mr. Dickinson noted they are dealing with impediments, including electrical power lines. Mr.
Berkowitz noted to make the fields work, they would need to accommodate sufficient parking
also.
CounciImember Jacobson believed the Baseball Association should sit down with City staff and
work on this situation. He indicated he did not know why they are debating this.
CounciImember Orttel asked why they could not upgrade the existing fields. He wants to make
sure all of the fields are getting the proper use prior to building new fields. He expressed concern
that the existing fields would be abandoned.
Mr. Deitz stated some of the fields have safety concerns because of bumps, dips, and ridges, but
those fields would still be used.
o Mr. Haas noted some of the fields could be used for softball.
Mr. Deitz stated the City is lacking in their facilities compared to other communities. He
indicated they have the opportunity now to get this facility moving. He reiterated they had some
money they are willing to invest.
Mr. Dickinson stated the City did a detailed park study in 2002, including what the facilities are
and what future facilities would be needed.
CounciImember Trude asked if they would restrict their flexibility ifthey restricted the financing
to park dedication fees from Andover Station North. She noted they should shuffle their
priorities on the CIP. They all agreed when the high school came that the priorities would need
to be reshuffled. She wants to see the City move forward with the project.
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Mr. Dickinson stated they need to balance the site and need fill and they would be able to pay for
those costs due to the development of the park. There are particular guidelines and rules they
have to follow, but the street connection and parking lot could be put in using increment dollars.
The total cost for the park would be 1.4 million. He indicated a dual approach would be better to
reduce the park budget by using tax increments for the infrastructure, such as the parking lot, but
as far as the actual field construction and fences, they could not use tax increment. This would
have to come out of the park budget from the park dedication fees. They need to try and stick to
the CIP and make sure the park dedication dollars are consistent with the park study, otherwise
they had to modify the study.
Chairman Blackstad stated based on the study, some things could shuffle around. Mr. Dickinson
responded that was correct.
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Councilmember Knight stated with the addition of the high school, the City had to step up and
provide facilities for the kids who were coming up to high school. They need to support these
kids because they would not be competitive if they did not adequate facilities to play on.
Councilmember Jacobson clarified when they grade the site in 2005, the area where the baseball
fields are going to be located would also be graded, and the Association should sit down with
staff and get the fields oriented the way they want, which could also be accomplished in 2005,
with irrigation of the fields in 2006 and playing on the fields by 2007.
Mr. Berkowitz stated they need a field location within the next couple of weeks.
Chairman Blackstad noted if they need to shift something to the west, they have the room to do
that.
Mr. Dickinson stated if they are agreeable to the number of fields and moving them to the west
was one thing they need. He asked if they want 275 or 300 foot fields. The Council decided 300
foot fields.
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Mr. Dickinson asked how they want the orientation of the fields. The Park Commission
members asked this to be put on their first meeting for February for discussion.
Councilmember Orttel stated if might be better if the Park Commission had a special meeting to
sit down with the Association and discuss this.
Mr. Dickinson asked if they want the future development funds to go to the development of this
park, or should those funds go into the improvement fund. Mayor Gamache stated he believed
they should use the park dedication fees.
Councilmember Knight stated they should make this decision later on in the meeting when they
discuss their other funding project.
Councilmember Trude stated it is important the Council establish a priority for the Park
Commission.
Councilmember Jacobson stated it makes sense to have these fields a dual purpose with the
football association.
UPDATE ON 2005 SOFTBALL / BASEBALL SCHEDULING
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U Mr. Haas explained that this item is in regard to an update of the toumament schedule and the regular
schedule for the spring/summer season. He noted the tournaments for both the softball and baseball
associations have been approved by the Park Commission. The regular schedule for the
spring/summer season will be fmalized after registration is complete and the fmal number of youth
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - January 24, 2005
Page 5
can be determined for both associations, so fields can be allocated accordingly. Mr. Haas noted the
schedule of tournaments that have already been approved for 2005.
DISCUSS USAGE FEE FOR YOUTH TOURNAMENTS
Chairman Blackstad explained that this item is intended to give the City Council an update of the
Park Commission's recommendation whether a usage fee for youth tournaments should be
considered. He reviewed that at the December 16, 2004 meeting, the Commission recommended
that there be no change in the fee structure for youth tournaments or associations at this time.
Councilmember Trude asked how much staff time is devoted to the tournaments. Chairman
Blackstad replied staff's time is minimal. He stated the associations are required to charge a
tournament fee and this is a standard charge.
Commissioner Masloski stated his employer charged a fee for tournaments because the fields
needed to be maintained and the outside groups were charged the adult fee.
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Councilmember Knight stated it was his belief that Coon Rapids and Anoka did not charge fees.
Commissioner Masloski replied his employer charged a set fee of$30.00 per day per field. He
noted the average adult pays approximately $600-650 per weekend, while the youth pays $240.00
per weekend.
Councilmember Orttel asked if they did their own maintenance also. Commissioner Masloski
replied they were not allowed to do their own maintenance and this was taken care of by his
employer, as well as picking up garbage.
DISCUSS THE 2005 - 2009 CIP
A. Discuss Lund's North Park and Prairie Knoll Park Lighting of Fields
Mr. Haas explained that this item is to discuss the improvements that have been identified in the CIP
for 2005. Two improvements identified in 2005 include field lighting for the two large
soccer/football fields at Prairie Knoll Park and constructing a new parking lot and relocating the
existing ballfield in Lund's North Park. As part of the Lund's North Park improvements, the Park
Commission has recommended that a temporary parking lot (with Class 5) be installed south of the
existing field until the spring season is over sometime in July and that "no parking" signs be installed
temporarily on both sides of 166th Avenue NW and Zion Street NW as determined by the City
Engineer. The relocation of the field and construction of the permanent gravel parking lot would
start immediately following the end of the season. Mr. Haas noted Dmwing A of the reconstruction
of the park that has been recommended by the Park Commission for the Council's review.
o Councilmember Trude asked if it would be difficult to restore the part of the field that is a
parking lot. Mr. Haas replied this would not be a problem or labor intensive.
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - January 24, 2005
Page 6
It was the consensus of the Council to approve the temporary parking lot (with Class 5) be installed
south of the existing field until the spring season is over sometime in July and that "no parking"
signs be installed temporarily on both sides of 166th Avenue NW and Zion Street NW as determined
by the City Engineer. The relocation of the field and construction of a permanent gravel parking lot
would start immediately following the end of the season.
With respect to the Prairie Knoll Park lighting of fields, Chairman Blackstad expressed concern that
the entire Park budget for 2005 is being used for this project.
Commissioner Walton noted between this project and the Andover Station South allocation, all of
the funds would be dedicated and he was concerned about future projects.
Councilmember Trude noted lighting of the field is one of the things that came with the building of
the high school.
Councilmember Jacobson stated at Andover Station South he believed there is still $100,000
available for this development. Mr. Dickinson replied he researched this and he could not fmd that
the $100,000 was specifically dedicated through a motion, but if that was the understanding of the
,:=) Council, that this should go to the park dedication fund he could do that.
Councilmember Trude believed when they were reworking the budget for the Community Center,
they realized there would be more than $500,000 of park dedication funds available and the excess
could be held to solve the Community Center overruns.
Council member Orttel stated he believed the Park Commission had approved the lights. Chairman
Blackstad stated he believed this came to the Council before it came before the Park Commission.
Councilmember Orttel stated it was the Council's impression that the Park Commission had
approved the lights and football field. Chairman Blackstad expressed concern about projects not
being able to be funded because of this project.
Councilmember Trude stated it ,was the Council's wishes that Prairie Knoll Park be completed.
Chairman Blackstad asked if they need to put in curb and gutter the parking lot onPrairie Knoll Park
considering this is a rural area.
Councilmember Orttel stated in general he was not in favor of curb and gutter in the parking lot, but
he would be in favor of delaying it instead of cutting it out.
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Mr. Haas stated they had not contacted the neighbors at this time regarding the lighting and they
would need to be contacted for their input.
Councilmember Trude noted everyone in this area has security lighting, so she was not sure if this
lighting would be a concern.
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Special Joint Andover City Council / Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - January 24, 2005
Page 7
A member of the audience stated there were lights at the hockey rink, so he could not see how
lighting the fields would make any difference.
Mr. Haas noted the fields ars used until 10:00 p.m.
Councilmember Knight pointed out the lighted fields have a multiple benefit. Mr. Haas stated the
lights would need to meet City Code.
An audience member noted right now the teams are traveling because they do not havelighted fields
in this area. He stated the fields would probably be used four nights a week.
Commissioner Bedor noted residents who moved next to a field should expect that at some point
lights would go in.
DISCUSS PARK DEDICATION CREDIT FOR COUNTRY OAKS WEST
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Mr. Haas explained that this item is in regard to discussing park dedication credit for the Country
Oaks West development that will most likely move forward this spring. The developer has requested
credit so that they can construct the park with the development improvements. He noted Jim
Dickinson, Finance Director, would provide additional information to the City Council and Park
Commission at this meeting.
Mr. Dickinson wanted to point out a section in the park study where they need to set out the
appropriate percentage of park dedication. He suggested they allocate to a developer about 45
percent of the park dedication be retained in the development.
Chairman Blackstad stated the ultimate goal is to put the parks in as the development is
completed. If the park was up and running as the development was going in, that helped the
developer sell the property quicker, the tax base increased, and there were no issues in the future
with residents who did not want the park located where proposed. City staff had agreed that they
would monitor how this park would be graded and put in. The developer would put in the park
and the City would have a balance coming in through park dedication fees to be used elsewhere.
Councilmember Jacobson stated what they need to do is put something in the Ordinance or Code
to set out how they went about determining how much money stayed and how much money went
into the park dedication fund. Mr. Dickinson replied it was ultimately the Council's decision as
to how these fees should be spread.
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Chairman Blackstad stated the Commission intended on having a Work session to look at the
CIP again.
Councilmemher Knight noted this area is unique because of County Road 20, which is a very
busy road and he did not want kids crossing this road.
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Special Joint Andover City Council / Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes -January 24,2005
Page 8
Mayor Gamache asked what the base is they should be looking at. Mr. Dickinson replied he was
looking at 45 percent, but if there is a regional benefit of the park, then that would raise th.e
number from 45 percent to another percentage.
The Council was supportive of the plan and requested staffwork on a policy with the Park
Commission.
DISCUSS ADVERTISEMENTS ON PARK PROPERTY
Mr. Haas explained that this item is in regard to considering advertisements on park property. The
Park and Recreation Commission, during the past couple months, has discussed whether or not
advertisements should be allowed in parks. Commissioner Walton has been taking the lead on this
.and will be addressing the Council.
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Commissioner Walton stated the concept is to provide other possible revenue sources. They are
looking at advertising on park benches, the hockey arena, and outfield fences. He noted they
have a lot of industrial growth in the City who would like to advertise their business as well as
show their support. He had called the City of Coon Rapids and they have a start up cost for the
advertising boards on their fences. He had information as to who built the signs and what the
hard costs were. He passed out rough estimates as to how much revenue could be generated by
advertising.
Councilmember Knight suggested the football poles could also be paid for by a business which
could be advertised on. He noted they should not allow liquor or tobacco advertising.
Councilmember Jacobson stated he did not have a problem with benches, but he did not want to
see signs all of the way around outfield fences.
Councilmember Trude stated she had also seen memorial benches done. She was concerned
about the visual image of the community if they put advertising on the fences.
Commissioner Masloski noted this would take a lot of staff time. Mr. Dickinson stated once a
program is up and running, it would require minimal staff time each year.
Commissioner Bedor stated advertising is necessary for businesses to survive and he was not
opposed to advertising. He noted he did not see advertising as bad.
Councilmember Knight noted all ballparks have advertising.
o Councilmember Trude stated she wants public feedback on this proposal also.
Chairman Blackstad stated they would look at this further and come back to the Council.
Councilmember Orttel asked they also look at other Cities for their advertising policies.
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\._J Minutes - January 24, 2005
Page 9
Councilmember Trude does not like the idea of advertising on the fences, but could support some
type of memorial advertising.
Commissioner Bedor noted any funds received would benefit the City.
ANDOVER STATION SOUTH PARK DEDICATION ALLOCATION
Mr. Haas explained that this item is in regard to a question the Park Commission has raised
regarding $96,144 for the Community Center contribution. .He drew the Council's attention to a
memorandum from Jim Dickinson, Finance Director, regarding the allocation of the park
dedication fees from the Andover Station South development.
Councilmember Trude asked staff to look into this further.
OTHER BUSINESS
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Councilmember Jacobson asked if there was something the Council could do to improve or make
the Park Commission's job easier or better.
Commissioner Masloski stated he has been on the Commission for two years and he felt their
hands had sometimes been tied. There are a lot ofthings within the park system that need
attention soon and asked Council to fmd other revenue sources for the parks. They are trying to
get the atWetic fields updated and new developments are going to be sitting without a park for
five or six years. He noted there are parks that need to get done.
Chairman Blackstad stated they had been performing a juggling act for the past five years and
that some of the regular park projects had been delayed and now they had to try and bring those
projects back in.
. Councilmember Knight stated demands changed also with an aging community and this put the
park demands into a cycle, which is where they are now.
Councilmember Trude noted she had seen a lot of money put into park infrastructure over the
past four to five years.
Commissioner Walton stated he would like to see some type of a scoring system for the parks
and work on the parks at the head of the list. Councilmember Trude indicated that was a good
idea.
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Chairman Blackstad intended on having a workshop meeting with the Commission to discuss
this issue.
:'t ~~ecial Joi~t Andov2e4r C210'fyOsCounCi! / Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
_ i lVlinutes - January ,
Page 10
Councilmember Orttel asked who names the parks. Mr. Haas replied a lot of times they are
named after the developer or development.
Councilmember Orttel stated he had had an inquiry from a resident if a park could be named after
a deceased resident who had lived in the area for a long time. He stated the City had lost some
history. Mr. Haas replied generally the policy had been to have a dedicated tree with a memorial
plaque. He noted the concern is if they have more than one request for naming of the same park,
how they would choose which resident to name it after.
Councilmember Trude suggested the park policies be looked at again. Chairman Blackstad
stated they could add that to their March workshop.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Councilmember Jacobson, seconded by Councilmember Orttel to adjourn the meeting.
The meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
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Respectfully Submitted,
Kathy Altman, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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