HomeMy WebLinkAboutApril 13, 2010
0 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
Andover Planning and Zoning Commission
Meeting Agenda
April 13, 2010
Andover City Hall
Council Chambers
7:00 D.m.
1. Call to Order
2. Approval of Minutes - February 9, 2010
3. PUBLIC HEARING: Conditional Use Permit (10-06) to allow increased height
for proposed salt storage facility at 1833 Crosstown Blvd NW.
4. PUBLIC HEARING: City Code Amendment to consider changes to City Code
5-4 Weapons to update hunting regulations.
0 5. Other Business
6. Adjournment
0
C I T Y o F
0 NDOVE
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - APRIL 13, 2010
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to
order by Chairperson Daninger, on April 13, 2010, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685
Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present: Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Dennis Cleveland, Valerie
Holthus, Michael Casey, Tim Kirchoff, Devon Walton, and Lynae
Gudmundson
Commissioners absent: None
Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Public Works Director/City Engineer, David Berkowitz
Others
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
0 February 9, 2010
Motion by Walton, Seconded by Cleveland, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion can-ied on
a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-present (Casey), vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USEPERMIT 10-06 TOALLOWINCREASEDHEIGHT
FOR PROPOSED SALT STORAGE FACILITY AT 1833 CROSSTOWN BLVD NW.
Mr. Bednarz reviewed the proposal with the Commission.
Mr. Berkowitz presented additional background on the property, the location ofthe storage facility,
details about the construction materials of the facility, and the screening of the facility for the
neighboring properties.
Commissioner Gudmundson asked how trucks would access the property.
Mr. Berkowitz detailed the routes trucks could utilize to access the property at this time and he
outlines future potential routes.
0 Commissioner Kirchoff asked what color the canvas would be for the facility and what the bid
amount includes.
Mr. Berkowitz stated the bid would include the design and construction ofthe facility. The
canvas cover will be a beige color versus a white. This will blend in more with the other nearby
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 2
buildings. In the summer months the facility will be cleaned and used to store mulch and other
materials used for summer maintenance projects in the City. Due to the potential for rusting,
equipment will not be stored in the facility.
Chair Daninger asked if there would be lights in the facility and if the facility would generate
noise in the wind based on the type of construction.
Mr. Berkowitz explained there would be lights in the facility and these would be used during
loading. The noise generated would be from the trucks entering and leaving the facility and
loading but the building itself would not generate noise on windy days.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing. Motion can-ied on a 7-ayes, 0-
nays vote.
Mr. Tom Hoopes, 15336 Linnet Street NW, Andover, asked ifthe temporary cul-de-sac in this
neighborhood would remain a cul-de-sac and the temporary status removed. This would malce
the salt storage facility less visible for this neighborhood, reduce some of the debris blowing into
the neighborhood, and reduce the noise generated at the facility. He expressed concerns about
0 the corrosive nature of salt and the salt blowing into the neighborhood.
Chair Daninger stated there was a possibility of this street becoming a through street in the
future. This would be something that would need to be brought to the City Council. The City
Council would be the governing body that would be able to make these changes. At this time the
Planning Commission is only considering the height of the building.
Mr. Zach Valder, 15325 Linnet Street NW, Andover, asked if the structure would be used for
other organic materials when salt was not being stored in the facility.
Mr. Berkowitz clarified the con-osiveness of the salts being stored in the facility would not be a
problem for neighboring structures as the salt would be contained in the facility. The facility will
be cleaned at the end of each season so that other materials can be stored inside during the
summer months. Although the facility cannot contain all of the materials a large portion ofthem
will be moved indoors during the summer months.
Mr. Berkowitz stated staff is aware ofthe visual impacts of the facility for the neighbors to the
north and would continue working on the berm to minimize these impacts.
Motion by Walton, Seconded by Kirchoffto close the public hearing at 7:28 p.m. Motion
can-ied on a 7 ayes, O-nays vote.
0 Commissioner Walton asked what the expected return on investment would be for this facility.
Mr. Berkowitz stated the expected ROI is about six and a half years. Based on the construction
costs and operation costs it may be slightly longer than this. The canvas portion of the structure
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 3
has a life expectancy oftwenty to twenty five years. The pavement and footings would have a
longer life expectancy and only the canvas would need to be replaced.
Chair Daninger restated the signs on Linette that identify this as a temporary cul-de-sac are there
so that residents are aware there is a possibility there would be a through road at this location in
the future. He suggested the residents of this neighborhood talk to the City Council regarding
their concerns.
Motion by Walton, Seconded by Casey to approve allowing the increased height for the proposed
salt storage facility located at 1833 Crosstown Blvd. NW. The motion carried on 7-ayes, O-nays
vote.
PUBLICHEARlNG: CITY CODE AMENDMENT TO CONSIDER CHANGES TO CITY CODE
5-4 WEAPONS TO UPDATE HUNTING REGULATIONS
Mr. Bednarz reviewed the proposal with the Commission. He clarified it was not the intention of
the City to prohibit hunting in the City but rather to clarify the regulations. He outlined the
0 points to be discussed:
1. Clarification of the hunting zones - determining a unique name for each zone.
2. Potential for revision of zone boundaries.
3. Updating Definitions
4. Minimum parcel size for hunting with shot guns.
5. Minimum firing distance from residences with a shot gun.
6. Minimuin parcel size for bow hunting.
7. Minimum firing distance from residences for bow hunting.
8. The prohibited zone, which does not allow for hunting, except by special
permission from the Council. There has been interest in having some type of
hunting allowed in this area for wildlife management.
9. City permit requirements for deer hunting.
10. Immediate family restriction for deer hunting.
11. Written permission from 50% of the neighboring properties for deer hunting.
12. The Council exemption and DNR support.
Motion by Walton, Seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing. Motion can-ied on a 7-
ayes, O-nays vote.
Mr. Dave Pearson, 17382 Flintwood Street, Ham Lake, stated he hunts the Fields property
currently because this is his immediate family. He goose hunts and bow hunts this area. He
0 stated that last year there were only two people who acquired hunting permits from the City last
year but there were more than two people hunting in that area. He indicated that he has not
gotten a permit from the City in the past because he does not agree he should have to ask for
permission to hunt in an area that it is permitted to hunt. He also stated there has been several
incidences of trespassing and people are getting close to homes while they are hunting and it is
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0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 4
getting to a point where people are not being safe. He clarified that if an area is legal to hunt by
the DNR with either a shotgun or rifle then the City should make it legal as well. The only
question should be if it is safe to hunt with rifle slugs.
Mr. Ray Sowada, 14921 Butternut Street, stated he has 2.5 acres just south of a hunting area. He
stated his attitude is that since the residents to the north of him are allowed to bow hunt deer with
2.5 acres he should be able to as well.
Mr. Don Wilson, 14920 University Avenue, stated he has 2.8 acres and he is currently spending a
lot of money to keep the deer out of his garden. The Council determined the cost to have the
DNR count the deer was excessive and he does not agree with having a sharp shooter come and
hunt his land. Ifhe cannot hunt it then he does not want someone else hunting it. He suggested
the following rules for deer hunting: only hunt from a tree stand that is a minimum oftwelve feet,
always shoot down not straight across, get permission from property owner to track a deer, only
field dress a deer on your own property, only the property owners could hunt the property, and
only shoot doe. In the past a property owner could bow hunt deer if you had 2.5 acres and he
would like to see this be the case again.
0 Mr. John Wallace, 17564 Ward Lake Drive, stated he has been hunting in Andover for a number
of years and he is currently using a muzzleloader. He has not heard of any problems as far as
people getting shot or people shooting at homes. He questioned why the City was looking at
revising these regulations at this time. He also stated that it would not be cost effective for the
City to bring in sharp shooters to control the number of deer but they could allow residents to
hunt their own property.
Mr. Mark Jones, 2127 167tl1 Avenue NW, stated the City has a growing turkey population and
cutting hunting will affect this as well. He stated those people that are cun-ently hunting their
property are careful and hopefully courteous hunters. He stated he did not want to lose a right he
currently has.
Mr. Tony Howard, 2119 156tl1 Avenue NW, stated an issue is the distance from the property line.
He suggested the minimum distance be measured from the property lines rather than structure.
He also suggested hunters ensure projectiles do not leave the property they are hunting. He
expressed concerns for those traveling on City streets as well as neighboring property owners.
He questions whether ten acres was enough to allow hunting with a shotgun and still maintain
public safety.
Mr. Steve MacGlover, 14909 University A venue, Ham Lake, stated his family owns 80 acres in
Andover and there is a deer and turkey problem. His family is trying to farm this land but
0 because of the deer they have been unable to make a profit. He stated there is a need for wildlife
management within the City. He stated the regulations do need to be reviewed for some changes
but he suggested removing the requirement that a property owner get a permit from the City to
hunt their own land and also the requirement that a property owner get permission from 50% of
the neighboring properties. He does not believe shutting.the hunting down is a good idea for the
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 5
City since no one else is controlling the wildlife population.
Mr. Harvey Matthies, 2857 172nd Avenue NW, stated he had 2.9 acres but because of the way the
properties are laid out there is not enough distance between the homes to allow for hunting. He
stated that he had someone hunting near his property illegally. He had called the Sheriff but the
Sheriff did not know what the regulations were for distance and nothing was done regarding the
individual who was hunting his property illegally. He would like to see the distance requirement
changed to be 500 feet from the property line not structure.
Mr. Sowada stated two years ago the DNR passed a law that a big game license covered deer
hunting with a bow in zone 601, which is the metropolitan area.
Mr. Jones reminded the Commission that there is a problem currently with wildlife management
and restricting the hunting more will increase this problem.
Mr. Howard suggested the city permit be required to have people notify the City where they are
hunting to increase the safety. This way also if the Sheriff is dispatched to an area they will
lmow if a person is hunting a piece of property illegally.
0 Motion by Walton, Seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 8:14 p.m. Motion can-ied
on a 7-ayes, O-nays vote.
Mr. Bednarz summarized the concerns ofthe residents who spoke. This included concerns about
hunters that are violating the current regulations but most of the speakers felt there was not a
need for dramatic changes with the ordinance.
Commissioner Holthus asked for clarification on what were the lawful hunting zones on the map
with the urban developments that was presented.
Mr. Bednarz stated there was no legal hunting in the new urban development areas that were
encroaching into the hunting zones because of the minimum distance requirements. There was a
unique situation with the Woodland Crossing townhomes that were constructed. There is enough
acreage in the common area that would allow for bow hunting according to the current
regulations.
Commissioner Holthus suggested changing this area to a non-hunting zone, or yellow color
according to the map.
Chair Daninger agreed with Commissioner Holthus and suggested changing the hunting zone
0 boundaries and define these areas as areas where hunting is prohibited.
Chair Daninger stated Item 1 refen-ed to renaming the hunting zones in order to differentiate
between the two areas. He asked for input.
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 6
Mr. Bednarz stated he had been using restricted zone-north and restricted zone-south during the
presentation as a way to differentiate between the two.
There was a consensus with the Planning Commission to designate the zones as north and south.
Chair Daninger asked for comments regarding the definition for muzzleloader.
Mr. Bednarz stated the terms rifle and muzzleloader are interchanged frequently. DNR regulates
where you can hunt with a rifle just north of Andover. There are muzzleloaders and shotguns
that are used south ofthis line at this time. The suggestion is to include a muzzleloader in the
rifle definition is not recommended because these are two differently regulated items.
Commissioner Kirchoff suggested using the DNR regulations as a guideline.
Chair Daninger stated the DNR is the guidance for many of the regulations the City has regarding
hunting. He clarified the DNR has different definitions for muzzleloader rifle versus shotgun
load.
.0 Chair Daninger stated a muzzleloader shoots the same distance as a shotgun and the DNR
considers the muzzleloader like a shotgun.
Mr. Bednarz stated this was correct.
Chair Daninger stated he would recommend staying with the DNR regulations and not define a
muzzleloader as a rifle.
It was the consensus of the Commission to not include muzzleloader in the definition of rifle.
Chair Daninger asked for Commission input regarding the minimum parcel size for hunting with
a shotgun. The minimum size is currently 10 acres but there was a suggestion to increase this.
He also clarified the minimum distance from a residence home is 500 feet.
Mr. Bednarz clarified the ordinance states a minimum distance of 500 feet from any residence,
DNR regulations are 500 feet from any structure.
Chair Daninger stated there had been a suggestion of changing this requirement to a minimum
distance of 500 feet from the property line.
Mr. Bednarz explained the current ordinance restricts any projectile from leaving the property.
0 The question is if the minimum 10 acre size and 500 feet from a structure allows enough area for
shotgun hunting deer and geese.
Commissioner Casey stated this could be looked into further. At this time he is in favor of
keeping it at 10 acres and a minimum of500 feet from a structure.
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 7
Commissioner Walton stated it is important to be consistent with the State Statutes. The 10 acres
and 500-foot minimum seems to be consistent with the State.
Chair Daninger clarified the State only specifies 500 feet from a structure and the City is adding
the 10 acre minimum. He further stated there has not been an issue with the minimums and there
are State regulations is place to control the need for a larger minimum area.
Commissioner Walton the City needs to draw the line from regulating common sense and
courtesy.
Commissioner Holthus asked Mr. Bednarz ifhe had talked to all of the property owners with 10
or more acres and ifthey all thought the minimum acreage should be increased.
Mr. Bednarz stated he talked with most of the property owners that own significant acreage but
not a majority of property owners with 10 acres. Large property owners all indicated that 10
acres was too small of an area to allow for hunting with a shotgun.
0 Commissioner Holthus stated she would be in favor of increasing the minimum acres
requirement.
Commissioner Cleveland agreed with Commissioner Holthus.
Chair Daninger polled the Commission.
Chair Daninger, Commissioners Casey, Walton, and Kirchoff are in favor of keeping the
minimum acre requirement at 10 acres. Commissioners Holthus and Cleveland are in favor of
increasing the minimurn. Commissioner Gudmundson is unsure at this time.
Commissioner Gudmundson stated she would tend to think that 10 acres is too small of an area
but there was not a strong argument for or against this.
Chair Daninger summarized four members were in favor of leaving the minimum at 10 acres and
two and a half would like to see the minimum increase. He clarified if there was a need for a
definite answer the Commission could work through this.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the minimum firing distance of 500 feet was a State regulation.
Mr. Bednarz clarified this was in the State regulations.
C Commissioner Kirchoff stated if this was changed to read a minimum distance of 500 feet from
the property line then the minimum width of a property has to be 1000 feet in order for a person
to hunt on it.
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 8
Commissioner Walton pointed out there is also a lot of ambiguity when referencing property
lines versus a structure that is in place.
Chair Daninger agreed with keeping the City regulations consistent with the DNR regulations.
It was the consensus ofthe Commission to keep the minimum distance at 500 feet from a
structure.
Mr. Bednarz stated there were additional restrictions in the restricted zone-south. These
restrictions are a person must be a quarter mile from a development, park or institutional use for
hunting deer with a shotgun.
Commissioner Walton asked if the restrictions changed for flight animals such as geese or
turkeys.
Mr. Bednarz showed a map for goose hunting areas. There are larger areas where goose hunting
would still be allowed but on the easterly side the hunting would be limited due to the parcel
sizes being smaller than 10 acres. He clarified the maps being presented represent the regulations
0 as they are currently written.
Chair Daninger expressed concerns with the rifle slug is different than that of a shotgun and he
wants to be sure the restrictions that are in place are keeping the residents safe.
Commissioner Walton stated if the State was providing guidance on these distances and ifthe
City was following the States regulations then they should be keeping the residents safe.
Mr. Bednarz stated the regulations do follow what the State regulations are in the northerly
hunting zone. The City is already more restrictive in the southerly hunting zone with the quarter
mile firing distance and other regulations.
Commissioner Cleveland stated he is okay with leaving the distance requirements as they are at
this time. He would not be in favor oflowering these and raising the requirements would shut
out hunting in these areas.
It was the consensus of the Plauning Commission to leave the distance requirements at 500 feet
of a structure and a quarter mile in the locations indicated.
Chair Daninger clarified the Commission has not discussed turkeys yet and there was a lot of
concerns expressed by the residents about bow hunting on 2.5 acres.
0 Commissioner Holthus pointed out there were concerns expressed about the safety of people
traveling on Hanson Boulevard.
Mr. Bednarz stated the draft ordinance provided by Mr. Howard included a restriction of being
,
C Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 9
500 feet from a road for firing a shotgun but the City already has a restriction within the
ordinance about projectiles leaving the property.
Chair Daninger clarified if a hunter shoots across a road then the projectile would be leaving the
property and be in violation ofthe City's ordinance.
Mr. Bednarz stated the minimum acre requirement to bow hunt is 2.5 acres but those properties
that are located in the prohibited zone are not allowed to hunt unless they get permission from the
City Council. In the restricted hunting zones the minimum size requirement is 2.5 acres and 150
feet from a structure. He also stated there are no similar DNR restrictions for bow hunting. He
asked the Commission if 2.5 acres was enough area.
Chair Daninger asked what the 150 feet means to the City. He asked if this would restrict those
residents with 2.5 acres. He also asked if the gold zones should be changed to allow for bow
hunting.
Mr. Bednarz stated Staff could provide a map to the Commission that reflects the 150 feet
requirement on those properties in question.
0 It was the consensus ofthe Planning Commission to direct Staff to bring a map to the next
meeting outlining the effects of a 150- foot requirement and this would allow the Commission to
determine if2.5 acres is sufficient.
Mr. Bednarz stated the next point of discussion is the City permit requirement for deer hunting in
the south restricted zone. He clarified that a person can only apply for the permit ifthey own the
land or are immediate family of the landowner, have permission from 50% of the neighboring
properties. He asked the Commission if the permit requirement should be kept and/or should it
be expanded to require all hunting in the City to require a permit as suggested by a resident
earlier.
Commissioner Casey suggested leaving the requirements as they are currently.
Commissioner Walton asked if the landowner would be able to give permission to someone other
than immediate family to hunt on their land.
Mr. Bednarz clarified the way the ordinance is written at this time only the landowner or
immediate family can apply for and obtain a permit to hunt their land. They are not able to give
permission to a third party to hunt on their property.
C Commissioner Walton stated with the growing issue with deer and growing issue with turkeys he
is in favor of expanding who can hunt on the property. If the property owner says it is okay and
they get a permit from the City and the property owner signs off on it then it should be allowed.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated there are not many properties in these zones. He suggested asking
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0 Regular Anc{over Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 10
the property owners what they would like to see regarding the requirement that only the property
owner or immediate family can hunt on the property.
Commissioner Walton stated ifthe Commission did not change this requirement it does not
allow for property owners to solve their wildlife issues without having to hunt the property
themselves.
Commissioner Gudmundson asked what the difference would be if the property owner did the
hunting or if they signed off on having someone else do the hunting because there would still be
only one person doing the hunting.
Commissioner Cleveland stated in this situation there tends to be more than one person hunting
then.
Commissioner Gudmundson stated the property owner would need to give permission.
Chair Daninger stated with or without a permit a person would need permission to hunt on
someone's property. He suggested removing the permit requirement completely from the
0 regulations.
Commissioner Gudmundson stated the permit requirement was put into place because the
southern portion ofthe City was more urbanized and there was some concern for safety. She
stated treating the north and south section differently makes sense.
Commissioner Cleveland stated he would be in favor of leaving the permit requirement in the
regulations and not allow people outside of the property owner or immediate family to hunt on
the property.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated he would agree with Chair Daninger and remove the permit
requirement and allow the property owner the ability to determine who hunts of the property.
Commissioner Walton stated he agreed with Chair Daninger and Commissioner Kirchoff.
Commissioner Gudmundson stated she would be in favor of keeping the permit requirement in
the regulations but allow the property owner the flexibility to allow others to hunt on the
property.
Commissioner Casey stated he would favor removing the permit requirement from the ordinance.
0 Commissioner Holthus stated she would favor removing the permit process from the ordinance
as well.
It was the consensus of the Planning Commission to remove the permit requirement from the
ordinance.
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0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 11
Mr. Bednarz stated the next point for discussion is the requirement of having permission from
50% of the neighboring properties. He stated with all the other regulations in place the question
was asked whether it is necessary to include this in the ordinance.
Commissioner Kirchoff pointed out if the permit process was eliminated from the ordinance then
this would not be a requirement.
Itwas the consensus of the Planning Commission to remove the requirement of having
permission from 50% of the neighboring properties in order to hunt on your property.
Mr. Bednarz stated the final point of discussion was the Council exemption and this requires the
DNR support. The DNR does not want to be involved in the local regulations. Ifthe regulations
meet the State laws established by the DNR there answer will be the same every time. He asked
if this needed to be included as part ofthe Council Exemption.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated it does not need to be included.
0 Commissioner Walton stated this could be determined by the City Council.
Commissioner Cleveland suggested changing the reference to compliance.
Mr. Bednarz stated they do want to include a reference that the DNR regulations are followed.
Commissioner Cleveland stated this would be sufficient to cover this.
Mr. Bednarz encouraged the Planning Commission to reopen the public hearing and continue the
item to next month to allow a draft ordinance to be brought forward.
Commissioner Cleveland suggested getting input from the Sheriffs Department about the
enforcement of this type ofthing and the resolution to these calls.
Chair Daninger stated the clearer the regulations the easier it will be to enforce.
Motion by Cleveland, Seconded by Walton to reopen the public hearing. The motion can-ied on
a 7-ayes, O-nays vote.
Motion by Cleveland, Seconded by Kirchoff to continue the public hearing to May 11, 2010.
The motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays vote.
0
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - April 13, 2010
Page 12
ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Kirchoff, Seconded by Casey, to adjourn. Motion can-ied on a 7-ayes, O-nays vote.
The meeting adjourned at 9: 18 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Tina Borg, Recording Secretary
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