HomeMy WebLinkAboutJune 13, 1978
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~ 01 ANDOVER
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
June 13, 1978
7:30 P.M.
AGENDA
Approval of Minutes
1. Comma #6-78-1
James Refrigeration Special Use Permit Public Hearing
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2. Comm. #4-78-6 Johnson's Field Preliminary Plat Public Hearing
3. Comm. lf6-78-2 Thad Walters Variance
4. Comm. #6 - 7 8- 3 John Sonterre Variance
5. Comm. if5-78-8 Discussion of Ordinance #37 - Septic System Maintenance
6. Comm. #6-77-6 Discussion of Ordinances 8 and 10 Revision
7. Comm. if6-78-4 Clifford Chapman Variance
For publication on June 9, 1978
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~ 01 ANDOVER
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REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
June 13, 1978
MINUTES
The Regular Meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was called
to order at 7:30 P.M. by Chairman Larry Retzlaff on June 13, 1978 at
the Andover Community Center, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Anoka,
Minnesota.
Commissioners Present: d'Arcy Bosell, Walter Dick, Ralph Kishel,
and Jeannine Pyron
Minutes
Motion by Commissioner Bosell, seconded by Commissioner Kishel, to
approve the 5-23-78 Planning and Zoning Commission Minutes.
Vote on Motion: yes - Chairman Retzlaff, Commissioner Bosell, Commissioner
Kishel, Commissioner Dick; present - Commissioner Pyron.
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Motion carried.
James Refrigeration Special Use Permit Public Hearing (Comm. #6-78-1)
Chairman Retzlaff called the public hearing to order. The Commission
had received from Charlie James copies of a proposed feasibility study
for the entire Neighborhood Business area showing the maximum allowable
development according to the existing Andover Ordinances. They took
into consideration the maximum size building allowed, parking required,
amount of land coverage allowed and came up with a proposal. Mr. James
thought the issue comes down to whether the development should be under
one roof and involve all 4 parcels (in this NB zoned area) or to have
separate structures. Discussed the past action by the Planning and
Zoning Commission and the City Council on the Variance and Special
Use Permits already approved by the Planning Commission. Chairman
Retzlaff called for public input - no one responded.
Motion by Commissioner Kishel, seconded by Commissioner Pyron, to
close the public hearing. Motion carried unanimously.
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Motion by Commissioner Kishel, seconded by Commissioner Pyron, that
the Planning and Zoning Commission recommends to the City Council
the approval of the James Refrigeration Special Use Permit on Plat
65933 Parcel #1610 in order to allow the said firm to begin construction
under Ordinance 8, Section 4.17 (c) in as much as it would not be
detrimental to the health, safety and welfare of the public; the use
intended for the property would not be inharmonious with the Comprehensive
Development Plan; it would be an asset to the City of Andover; there
was no opposition from the public at the public hearing; Mr. James has
submitted a proposed feasibility study showing the proposed development
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - June 13, 1978
Page 2
of the adjacent property that might reasonably occur; also, the traffic
count has been indicated on the development study; and it is reasonable
and prudent that this plan could very well prove to be a well designed
development for the surrounding properties.
Vote on motion: yes - Commissioner Dick, Commissioner Kishel, Chairman
Retzlaff, Commissioner Pyron; no - Commissioner Bosell. Motion carried.
Commissioner Bosell, "I would like to make a statement for my no vote.
When the original rezoning was given, there was a site plan submitted.
This plan is not only not part of that original plan, but it is on
property less than that required to obtain NB zoning and therefore does
not meet the criteria set out in Ordinance 8 Section 4.17 inclusive.
I have to be consistent with my other votes."
John Sonterre Variance (Comm. #6-78-3)
David Sonterre was present to explain their request. Their mother owns
29.55 acres in Section 34 (Plat 65934, Parcel 5450). They have about
487' of frontage on Bunker Lake Boulevard. The majority of the property
is zoned R-l but the SE corner of it is zoned General Business. Their
mother's house is on the West portion of the parcel. They would like
to divide the property in order to build a body shop now and a house
someday.
He was advised that the GB area is landlocked. They would have to
build a road to City specifications and dedicate it to the City. They
would have to create a separate parcel of the GB zoned portion of the
property. Discussed Ordinance 8 - Section 4.04 and 5.03. The Commission
questioned why only part of that parcel was zoned GB. Mr. Sonterre
said that Mr. Olso~ the property owner to the East, has said he would
give 33' of right-of-way to build a road. Questioned whether the entire
road had to be constructed or part dedicated and part constructed.
It was suggested that it would be best to get an opinion from the City
Attorney and the City Engineer. Chairman Retzlaff will take care of
it. Mr. Sonterre was asked to get letters of approval for this from
his mother and Mr. Olson.
This will be on the next Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda on
June 27, 1978.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - June 13, 1978
Page 3
Johnson's Field Preliminary Plat Public Hearing (Comm. #4-78-6)
Chairman Retzlaff called the public hearing to order. Linda Johnson,
one of the owners of the property, and James Kurth, Kurth Surveying,
were present. Mr. Kurth gave copies of a revised plat to the Commission.
He was informed that 3 copies weren't enough for a 5-member Commission
plus the City Engineer and City file. Also the Commission needs time
to review the plats instead of being presented with them at the meeting.
The Commission reviewed the letter (copy attached) from T.K.D.A. dated
6-9-78. Comments on the letter: 1) All the owners have to be shown
on the plat. 2) The scale of 1 inch = 100 feet is acceptable on this
plat. 3) The date of preparation has been added to the revised plat.
4) The Certification by Registered Land Surveyor has been added to the
revised plat. 5) They will get the information from the County on
utilities, culverts, storm drainage, etc. 6) A. They haven't done the
soil test on Lot 7, Block 3. B. The contours have been shown on the
new grading plan. C. The 869 flooding easement has been shown on
~ the new grading plan for Lot 7, Block 3. 7) The low point mentioned
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was on the grades. In combining 7) and 8), the length of vertical curve,
they made it a 150' curve and set the grade. They plan to run the
drainage down Guarani Street into the pond on Lot 7, Block 3. They
would put a ditch along the South property line of the plat. The roads
will be blacktopped and they are coming into a sand road (145th).
8) Will have to be addressed by the City Engineer regarding the length
of vertical curve. 9) They should show minimum basement elevations
on the preliminary plat.
Along 7th and l47th Avenue, the sketch plan showed an outlot, and now
it is shown as a 66' wide natural, water storage holding pond. A
Commissioner questioned how deep the water would be, how many kids would
get into it and what kind of protection there would be. Discussed the
other holding ponds in the City for storm water runoff. Soil borings
will be taken to determine the water level in this area.
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Alfred Eckardt, 14649 - 7th Avenue, "I live right next to this 66'.
If they put a ponding area in there, I will have 3' of water in my basement.
That particular 66' is a low area coming off 7th Avenue. My backyard
is low. When the road (147th) is built I assume it's going to be
higher yet than my backyard. I am going to have a natural drain off
and it is going to go right smack in my basement. I can't imagine
how they can constitute a drainage pond unless they build a dike adjacent
to my property to hold this water in and a dike is going to take up
at least 20' and it will be more of a drainage ditch instead of a holding
pond. I have a walkout. My driveway comes in off from 7th and comes
down and into my tuck-under garage. There is no way they could build
a drainage pond because they would have to build a dike to keep the
water out of my backyard."
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - June 13, 1978
Page 4
There is no water standing now at 7th and l47th but it is moist. Discussed
the need for a holding pond. The footage dimensions of the utility
easements should be shown on the plat. Concern was expressed regarding
the drainage easement on Lot 7, Block 3 whether it is going to be
sodded or what provisions are going to made so that ~ the section
doesn't wash down into the pond. It was mentioned that the City Engineer
will take care of the problem. Mr. Kurth stated that when they bring
the water down, rather than bringing it into l45th and into the next
plat, what they usually do is belly the road and bring the water across
the road and from there just cut out the ditch and sod to the pond.
Commissioner Dick, "Has anybody calculated the gallonage of runoff
assuming a one-inch rainfall over this plat? The reason I am pursuing
this, I have been told that the pond and the slough in 1965 was one
foot below l44th Lane and there are 3 houses there with their septic
systems in the front yard. Water draining off this whole area is going
to flood right in there. Chairman Retzlaff showed the City flood plain
map which shows the proposed Lot 7, Block 3 designated as being in the
flood plain area. Mr. Kurth was advised to show this on the preliminary
/-..,. plat.
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Linda Johnson said she had gone to the Park and Recreation Commission
Meeting and there wasn't a quorum so she has to go back to the next
meeting. Commissioner Dick informed the Commission that the proposed
Lots 11 and 12 are being used by the 68 kids in Dehn's Addition for
baseball, volley ball, jumping, etc., and that has been utilized unofficially
as a park or playground area. The Commission pointed out the fact that
Dehn's Addition has a dedicated park. The kids are using someone elses
property as a park and Mrs. Johnson has the right to develop it or
propose to develop in a way she can best use the land. There was land
given to the City for park and playground by the developer of Dehn's
Addition. He said that was brought up before the Park Commission and
it was recommended that that (Dehn's Addition park) be maintained as
wetlands or sloughlands matching in with the other areas around Round
Lake. Chairman Retzlaff will contact the Engineer regarding the questions
or concerns raised. The Chairman called for public input.
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Bob Dehn, 14445 - l44th Lane NW, "I would like to say one thing about
your 100-year flood plan, no matter what the Engineer said, we have
had water up to that road (145th Avenue) quite high without runoff from
any other additions. This water was up in 1965 and again when the City
pumped the water table out for putting in the sewer on 7th Avenue it
came up 4 inches. So there is no drain provided for once that fills
up to run someplace else. It will create problems in Dehn's Addition.
(Mr. Dehn was informed that the City Engineer and Mr. Kurth will look into
the size of ponding area needed - perhaps it would take all of Lot 7,
Block 3.)
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - June 13, 1978
Page 5
(Bob Dehn Continued) How come they don't have l46th Lane going out to
7th Avenue which was proposed many, many years ago that the land on
7th Avenue would be used as an outlet for l46th. We are going to have
more traffic. l45th was built in 1964 and it wasn't built for the
type of traffic that is going to be in there now. It is a safety factor
and an evacuation factor. l47th to l45th is a long ways when you have
100 cars going out of here at one time. I believe that l46th should
go out to 7th."
Mr. Dehn was informed that entrances onto major arterials are not to
be closer than 660'. It was also mentioned that there are only 28
proposed lots and also that the Northern lots in this proposed addition
would probably exit on l47th rather than the sand roads in Dehn's
Addition. Chairman Retzlaff explained how street improvements are
assessed in the City of Andover.
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Commissioner Dick, 4360 - l44th Lane, showed slides showing the serious
drainage problem in the area, namely Dehn's Addition where he lives.
The pictures were taken Memorial weekend when there was 2' of rain
one day and 2.4' the next day. The pictures reflected the washouts
and drainage towards the existing pond East on l45th.
Bob Dehn, Jr of 14465 - l44th Lane, 'This proposed drainage ditch that
would go in is right on the North side of my lot and the natural elevation
of the land, the way it is now and the way it would be with paved
road, is that you are talking about only 400' that the water is coming
down a gravel road now. When it comes down a blacktop road from a
distance from l47th down to l44th where I live. no matter how much
of a belly you put on with a 2" rainfall there is going to be 3' of
water coming. I am about 3' higher than the ditch and the road now.
This easement you are talking about, if they are going to put in a gully
there for the drainage and belly the road, you are still going to have
the natural drainage - the water is going to come running down approximately
1320' and if they are going to take Lot 7, Block 3 to hold this water,
they are going to have to dig out a 15' hole on the North side of me
and I have a pond in back of my place now but I don't want to live on
a peninsula." Discussed the water in his lot from the North and West.
He was advised that the Engineer will have to look into this.
Dick Nixon, 4430 - l44th Lane, "I am also on the corner of l44th and
if the water does come up any higher then it is going to go over my
septic tank and be a problem." He also expressed concern about dust
from all the additional traffic.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - June 13, 1978
Page 6
Bob Rivas, 4311 - l44th Lane, asked about a possible l46th. He said
that there really is no place for the children to go and play after this
development goes in. The nearest place would probably be down at the
High School. This street and the amount of traffic they have in their
subdivision now, he was wondering if there is a count taken to determine
how much traffic is going in on l45th & how much more could be anticipated.
Chairman Retzlaff will ask for projections from the City Engineer.
The Commission recommended the group of concerned citizens in the audience
also go to the next Park and Recreation Commission Meeting on July
6, 1978 and voice an opinion on the "park" situation.
Motion by Commissioner Bosell, seconded by Commissioner Dick, to continue
the public hearing until June 27th. Motion carried unanimously.
Thad Walters Variance (Comm. #6-78-2)
Mr. Walters owns the parcel next to his house located on the Rum River,
in Section 13, Plat 65986, Parcel 7910, and zoned R-l. He explained
that the lot is too small by today's standards and is requesting a variance
against Ordinance 8, Section 6.02 in order to build a house on this
property. The lot is 80' wide on the Rum River and 90' on the North
on l59th Avenue. The adjacent lot, where his existing home is located,
is 580' x 170'. The lot was created in 1959. He asked if he could
take some land off the adjoining lot to make this one buildable. The
Commission related the "60%" requirement in Ordinance 8 Section 4.04A.
This lot is 1.19 acres, 51,836 square feet and he needs 65,340 square
feet to meet the 60% requirement. The lot also violates the intent
and purpose of the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act that has been adopted
by the State but not yet implemented by this City. This particular
section of the River is designated "scenic" and under the provisions
they are requiring a minimum of 4 acres of land and 300' of frontage
along the River plus the setback restrictions. Mr. Walters said all
the lots in the area are way below todays standards. Discussed Ordinance
8, Sections 4.04, 5.04 and 6.02.
Motion by Commissioner Kishel, seconded by Commissioner Pyron, that
the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission recommends to the City
Council denial of the Thad C. Walters variance on Plat 65986, Parcel
7910 because: it does not meet the requirements of Ordinance 8, Section
6.02 and Ordinance 8B, Section 4.04A; that in addition, the Rum River
is a scenic River and the State imposes further restrictions on building
than does the City; and it is not in conformance with the Comprehensive
Development Plan. Motion carried unanimously. This will be on the
City Council agenda on July 5th.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - July 13, 1978
Page 7
Clifford Chapman Variance (Comm. #6-78-4)
Mr. and Mrs. Chapman are concerned with 2 of their lots on Uplander
street in Section 15 that are zoned R-3. They want to take 23' from
Lot L (Parcel 5788) and put it on Lot M (Parcel 5784). Mr. Chapman
said it became a lot of record on December, 1971. They discussed
the time thing - when these parcels were recorded and the adoption
of Ordinance 8.
Research will be done to provide the Planning and Zoning Commission
with past history on these lots and Ordinance 14. Mr. Chapman will
check to see for sure when they were recorded. This will be on the
next agenda, June 27th, for continued discussion.
Discussion of Ordinances 8 and 10 Revision (Comm. #6-77-6)
The Commission had gotten copies of comments from David Licht of Midwest
Planning regarding his review of the revised ordinances. They discussed
the opinions received from the Attorney after his review, Dave Licht's
comments and the time that has gone by without really accomplishing
what they set out to do. Discussed having a professional do the job
of revising the ordinances and the Comprehensive Plan.
The Commission requested Chairman Retzlaff to go over the problems
with the City Council.
Ordinance #37 - Septic System Maintenance (Comm. #5-78-8)
This will be on the next Planning and Zoning Commission agenda.
Ad i ournment
Motion by Commissioner Dick, seconded by Commissioner Pyron, to adjourn.
Motion carried unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 11:10 P.M.
J)otlh<',.~ W~
Deloris J. n~on
Commission Clerk
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TOLTZ, KING, DUVALL. ANDERSON AND ASSOCIATES INCORPORATED
ENGINEERS
ARCH ITECTS
PLANNERS
1408 PIONEER BUILDING
612-224-7891
SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA 55101
TELEX 29-7461
June 9, 1978
Planning and Zoning Committee
Andover, Minneoota
Re: Preliminary Plat
Johns on's Field
Commission No. 6223-78
CO:Illnission Members:
We have reviewed the Preliminary Plat for Johnson's Field as required
by Subdividing and Platting Ordinance No. 10. Following are our comments
and recorn,'nendations:
1.
Revise the Names of the owner, as per letter from Linda Johnson,
Dated May 19, 1978.
2. Prepare plat plan on scale of I inch to fifty feet.
3. Include date of prep.3.ration on plat.
4. Include certification by Registered Land Surveyor on plat.
5. Show existing streets, including type of surfacing, and existing
utilities, such as gas, telephone, electric &culverts and storm
drainage on County Road No. 7 in this area.
6. Lot 7, Block 3
a. Request soil test due to proximity to pond.
b. Revise the contours at the south line of the lot to match the
existing contours so that no grading will be required outside
the proposed plat.
c. Provide a flooding easement to elevation 869.
ARNOT.J. DUVALL, PRESIDENT
ROBERT R. RYDER, V. P.-TRlE:A9.
WAYNE A. OLSON. V. P.-BEC.
WALTER W. THORPE. v. P.
DuWAYNE R. KASMA. v. P.
DUANE T. PREW. v. P.
JAMES E. VCYEN. v. P.
OWEN .I. BEATTY
CARREL H. BERKOWITZ
ROBERT A. BOYER
.JAMES C. BROTEN
WILLIAM J. F"EYDER
ROYCE B. HANSEN
STEPHEN M. HARTLEY
WESTLY.I, HENDRICKSON
.J. THOMAS KIRK
DAVID W. KIRKWCLD
A. DEAN LUNDHOLM
ROBERT T. MALONEY
DENNIS R. MARTENSON
RICHARD D. MENKEN
LEONARD D, MILLER
THOMAS W. MOODIE
.JAMES A. SKARET
ABE J. SPERLING
ROBERT D. SPURR
NATHAN ... WEBER
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Andover Planning and Zoning Conun!ttee
June 9, 1978
Page Two
7 ~ Street Drainage
a. l47th Ave.
Show contours of water storage area as revised.
Equalizer pipe is not located at the existing low point.
b. Guarani St.
Show how the drainage will be provided for after it reaches
l45th Ave.
8.
Length of vertical curve at station 3+00 on l47th Ave. should
be increased to 20 times the algebraic difference in the percentage of
grade of the two adjacent slopes.
9.
Show the house elevatio~s to be minimum basement elevations rather than
ground level.
Very truly yours,
TOLTZ, KING, DUVALL, ANDERSON
AND ASSOCIATES, INCORPORATED
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Charles L.
CLW:mr
cc: Linda Johnson
Kurth Surveying, Inc.