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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 24, 1981 '~ ../ o o Call to order Approval of minutes 1. Corom. #11-81-1 2. Corom. #10-81-6 3. Corom. #6-81-1 o 0 ~ ~ ANDOVER o REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 24, 1981 7:30 P.M. Firearms Ordinance Public Hearing Ordinance 8, Section 6.02 Amendment Public Hearing, Cont. Review of Neighborhood Business Zones, Continued o o 0 ~ ~ ANDOVER o ,~ .J REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 24, 1981 MINUTES The regularly scheduled Andover Planning and Zoning Commission meeting was called to order by Chairperson d'Arcy Bosell at 7:33 P.M., Tuesday, November 24, 1981 at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard N.W., Anoka, Minnesota. Commissioners Commissioners Also Present: Present: Absent: Kishel, Apel, Anstett Lobb, Johnson, Scherer City Engineer, Jim Schrantz; others ~~/f/d ~ Approval of Minutes November 10, 1981 Page 6 - motion re: Lakeside Estates, Item #8, change to read: 'Move the proposed building site on Lot 4, Block 2 to the high dry.....' MOTION by Kishel, seconded by Apel to approve the minutes of November 10, 1981 as corrected. Motion carried on a 3 yes, 1 present (Anstett) vote. Firearms Ordinance Public Hearing (Comm. #11-81-1) Chairperson Bosell opened the public hearing. She explained that on November 3rd, the City Council adopted a moratorium which went into effect on November 7th to allow no hunting at all in the city. On November 17th, they amended the ordinance to allow hunting in certain areas. The purpose of the meeting tonight is to accept people's comments, questions, concerns and suggestions. She also asked the people in the audience to consider serving on an advisory committee to write a new firearms ordinance. Paul Asted, 665 - l40th Lane N.W. - asked what the amendment includes. Chairperson Bosell explained that approximately the northern 2/3 of the city is open for hunting with shotguns and bow and arrow. The southern 1/3 is open for bow and arrow only. The same rules as before apply, i.e., no shooting in a platted area, no shooting within 500 feet of a building and the need for written permission from the property owner if hunting on someone else's land. Ken Taylor, 16552 Verdin Street N.W. - stated that at the City Council meeting it was the intent of the Council that bow and arrow in the southern part be used only for practice, not for hunting. Commissioner Apel noted that the ordinance does not spell that out. Councilman Bob Peach - stated that the Council tried to write a quick ordinance and there may be some inconsistencies in it. He understood that the Council did not want bow and arrow hunting in the southern area. They were to be used only for practice. Commissioner Anstett asked if it is legal to shoot wild dogs in the southern area. Councilman Peach stated that it is not legal. Ken Taylor - noted that the rifle ranges can be open. ,~b Humphreys, 16947 Verdin Street - stated that no one at City Hall knew about the Christian ~fle Range in her area until she complained about it. The Sheriff's Department did not even know it existed. She noted there have been too many people out there shooting and there is no control. People from the rifle range use her property for toilet facilities. She felt the range should be closed on weekends. Planning and Zoning l ,_aissio~ )eting November 24, 1981 - Minutes Page 2 / , ) Dennis Johnson, 3747 Vintage St. N.W. - stated that the range is not open on Sundays. There ~ firearms safety classes held at the range. Chairperson Bosell asked for input from the audience regarding the ordinance amendment. Paul Asted - felt the Council was a little hasty in making their decision. The boundaries should be considered more carefully. He is not pleased with the present boundary because it puts him in the prohibited area, although he really doesn't mind as he is a bow hunter. Chairperson Bosell felt the intent is to get together a committee to see what should and should not be allowed. Paul Asted - thought that the people on the committee should be those who have lived in the city a long time. He also asked if any consideration has been given to allow people to hunt on their own property. Chairperson Bosell stated that could be a consideration. She noted that a permit situation was considered where the landowner can come up to City Hall to get a permit to hunt on their own property. She also noted that one of the concerns of the Sheriff's Department is enforcement. Paul Asted - stated that some consideration. has to be made to make the enforcement possible. There is also a problem with making the enforcement officers understand what the intent of the ordinance is. He understood that a person with a firearm on posted property can be arrested for just being on the property. John Vadnais, DNR Conservation Officer - explained that the State trespass law deals with two types of properties - agricultural land and non-agricultural land. On non-agricultural land if it is not posted, people can~ enter for hunting. If they are orally notified to leave they must do so. On non-agricultural land if they are within 200 feet of a building they have to have oral permission to hunt. On agricultural land, which includes land that contains harvested or tilled crops, no one can enter for hunting unless they have permission. Before you go on agricultural land you have to have the owner's oral permission. If you're within 500 feet of a building, then you have to have written permission. To post your property you have to have printed notices with 2 inch high letters; the notices have to be signed by the owner, occupant or lessee; the signs have to be placed around the entire perimeter of the property, not less than 1,000 feet apart. Mr. Vadnais noted that Anoka County has the highest number of deer killed by cars in the state. He also noted that the deer population in Anoka County is very high. Paul Asted - noted that the problems his neighbors have been having are people coming on their property without permission. Ken Taylor - agrees there is a trespassing problem. He felt it could be dealt with by having the people come to City Hall to get a permit. He noted it's the people who park their cars on the road or drive right onto their property without permission who are causing the problem. Chairperson Bosell suggested that maybe the city should inform property owners as to how to post their property. Ken Taylor - thought that would be a good idea. He noted there are large tracts of land in the city whose owners don't live here. He felt that if that particular problem could be dealt with, it would be a step in the right direction. .11 LeFebvre, 14278 Underclift Street N.W. - asked if muzzle loaders are excluded. Chair- person Bosell noted they are prohibited right now; however, she felt that they will be back in, but in restricted areas because of the velocity. Another item of concern is hunting on Round Lake. Planning and Zoning ( \issior 'eting November 24, 1981 - M...>,utes J Page 3 \.) o Bill LeFebvre - couldn't see shutting down the lake until the area gets more densely populated. .1 Asted - felt that we could look muzzles and bow and arrows by permit open sections in the closed zones to to the City of Blaine for some help. in certain areas. Some consideration control the deer herd. They have allowed might be made to Discussion was on the number of deer killed by cars in the area. Mr. Vadnais stated there are quite a few killed on Bunker Lake Boulevard and on Crosstown Boulevard from City Hall to High- way 65. Donald Fuchs, 14761 Oneida St. N.W. - noted that he lives on the river and there are deer in his yard every night. He didn't know of anyone in his area who has complained about people hunting there. Bill LeFebvre - asked if there was any consideration given to issuing permits to people who own large parcels in the prohibited area so they can hunt on their own property. Chairperson Bosell stated that could be considered by the advisory committee. Commissioner Anstett noted that her neighbors feel that if they own land they should be able to hunt on their property. Paul Asted - asked if we do have a permit situation and he gets a permit to hunt on his own property, does this mean he alone can hunt or can his friends hunt with him. He thought this point should be considered. Chairperson Bosell stated that she spoke to the Andover Deputy and he said the easiest way to enforce firearms is to prohibit them. John Mollencamp, 140 Andover Boulevard - explained that he has two boys who like to shoot trap. If a permit is required and they want to shoot on a Sunday afternoon, how would he get a permit as City Hall is not open on Sundays. Chairperson Bosell noted that he could probably get a permit that would be effective for a period of time. Mr. Mollencamp - stated that he knows people who own 20 acres in the prohibited area and they said they are going to hunt even if it's not allowed. Frank Schoonover, 14329 Butternut Street N.W. - noted that he has 20 acres and he does a lot of target practice. Stated that he is going to hunt if he wants to as there are woodchucks, etc. that he shoots. Commissioner Apel stated that he is not in favor of permits. He felt that something should be done to allow an owner to hunt if he has a large parcel of land. Mr. Schoonover - felt that property owners should be able to shoot on their own property any time they see fit. A person shooting should know how far a projectile is going to go. He suggested that if someone is hunting on someone else's property, the owner should be with the people who are hunting. Dave Schneider, 1411 Andover Boulevard - noted that the people tonight are talking about two different things - hunting and shooting. The ordinance should break down these two items. Chairperson Bosell suggested that maybe we should have two different ordinances - one for l-"nting and one for firearms. She also noted that the Christian Rifle Range was granted a ~cial Use Permit sometime back in the 60's. ~.~~<L..,~ ~~~~F1r~-bi, O-<-L ~ ~~ -j-tLR~ 1~~~. . J~ 'fif'l. Planning and Zoning C"..Ifnissiol. deeting November 24, 1981 ~ Minutes Page 4 '~ J , ) P~ul Asted - stated that in the last two weeks they have had about 25 hunters behind his ?perty hunting. He said it's not going to change things to put stricter rules on and not enforce them. Chairperson Bosell asked Councilman Peach if it was the intent of the City Council to solicit persons who are willing to sit on the advisory committee or should the Planning Commission and the advisory committee work together. Councilman Peach stated that the Council wants to remain unprejudiced. It's up to the Planning Commission to form the committee. Dennis Johnson - asked if the boundary is necessary. He felt that it would work out if platted land was the only area prohibited. Paul Asted - felt the trespass law was the most important item to be dealt with. Commissioner Apel volunteered to form the advisory committee. This item will be continued to December 8, 1981. (Recess 8:55 - Reconvene 9:10) Ordinance 8, Section 6.02 Amendment Public Hearing (Comm. #10-81-6) Chairperson Bosell reopened the public hearing. Commissioner Kishel explained that the Commission was discussing the setback along thoroughfares. He felt that by referring to Section 4.15 of Ordinance 8 in Section 6.02, this would take care of the problem. Chairperson Bosell noted that she had asked the Commissioners to review the street plan. She didn't think there are any major arterials in the city. She questioned whether we should use the word thoroughfare. Commissioner Kishel noted that the Comprehensive Plan refers to County Roads, MSA and CSAH and thoroughfares. City Engineer Schrantz stated that we have arterials; we could call the streets either minor arterials or collectors. According to the Comprehensive Plan, County Roads 16, 18, 20, 7 and 9 are minor arterials. Commissioner Kishel stated that we also want to take into account our municipal state aid streets. They are called collectors in the Comprehensive Plan. After discussion on what the county requires, it was decided that City Engineer Schrantz and Commissioner Kishel work together on what the ordinance should say with Commissioner Kishel stating that he would like Section 6.02 to read "Any yard setback along a minor arterial or collector, see Section 4.15". This will be continued on December 8, 1981. Review of Neighborhood Business Zones, Cont. (Comm. #6-81-1) r0ntinued to December 8, 1981. ~~ty Engineer Schrantz asked the Commission what areas they want him to become involved in to help them. He noted that there are several items that have to be done, such as putting Planning and Zoning November 24, 1981 - Page 5 C~issio~leeting Minutes Q o J .~~e Flood Plain zone on the zoning map. Further, he didn't know how involved he should be in _)Jating the zoning ordinance to be compatible with the Comprehensive Plan. Chairperson Bosell noted that she felt the major problem right now is the lack of continuity between the zoning ordinance and the Comprehensive Plan. MOTION by Anstett, seconded by Apel to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. Meeting adjourned at 10:00 P.M. Respectfully submitted, [I~ Vicki Volk, Commission Secretary r~\ ~ ) _J