HomeMy WebLinkAboutMarch 10, 1981
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Call to order
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REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
MARCH 10, 1981
7:30 P.M.
Approval of Minutes
1. Comma #2-81-3
Oakwood Estates Preliminary Plat Public Hearing
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REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
MARCH 10, 1981
MINUTES
The regularly scheduled Planning and Zoning Commission meeting was called to order by Chair-
person d'Arcy Bosell at 7:31 P.M., Tuesday, March 10, 1981 at the Andover City Hall, 1685
Crosstown Boulevard N.W., Anoka, Minnesota.
Commissioners Present:
Commissioners Absent:
Also Present:
Apel, Kishel, Scherer, Anstett, Johnson, Lobb
None
City Engineer, Larry Winner; Lawrence Carlson; Frank.padula
Approval of Minutes
February 24, 1981
MOTION by Scherer, seconded by Johnson to approve the minutes of February 24, 1981 as written.
Motion carried unanimously.
Chairperson Bosell noted that for the next agenda, we will have a review of the Comprehensive
plans from Blaine, Coon Rapids and East Bethel.
Oakwood Estates Preliminary plat Public Heating (Comm. #2-81-3)
Chairperson Bosell opened the public hearing.
Lawrence Carlson, 17750 Aztec Street N.W., 'developer - stated that the plat lies north of
Kadlec Addition and is adjacent to White Oaks Country Estates on the east. He is proposing
11 lots. The plat is essentially the same as a previously approved plat that was not acted
upon by the developer. There is a house and 5 acres noted as an exception on the plat.
City Engineer Winner reviewed his letter regarding the plat. The following items were noted,
to which Mr. Carlson responded. 1) The subdivider must submit the written consent of the fee
owner. (Mr. Carlson provided this document). 2) Soil borings must be submitted to show the water
table elevation is below the proposed minimum basement elevations and street elevations. (Mr.
Carlson noted that when this plat originally came in, soil borings were not required. However,
he has had borings taken. They went to depths of 14-19 feet and didn't hit water). 3) There
are two lots that are lower than the proposed street grade (Lot 1, Block 2 and Lot 2, Block 3).
These should be filled so there is adequate drainage to the street. (Mr. Carlson didn't under-
stand this. The Commission will discuss this later in the meeting.) 4) Lot dimensions for
Lot 1, Block 2 were not shown. (They have been shown on the revised plat). 5) The centerline
radius of the two horizontal curves in front of Lot 2, Block 1 must be increased to a minimum
of 200 feet. (This has been taken care of). 6) A location map must be submitted. (This is
on the revised drawing). 7) Drainage calculations must be submitted to show that enough
storage for storm water is being provided in the drainage easements. (Mr. Winner noted these
were submitted and look fine except for the drainage easement in Lot 1, Block 2). 8) The
street jog for Flora Street meets the minimum requirement of 150 feet although it would be more
desirable to extend this street straight through and eliminate the jog. Mr. Winner noted that
the Fire Department and Public Works Department would like the street to go straight through.
9) The City Council felt that an attempt should be made to connect l70th Lane in this plat
with l7lst Avenue in White Oaks Country Estates to provide another exit for that subdivision.
Mr. Winner provided several alternatives on how this could be achieved.
c=:hairperson Bosell asked Mr. Carlson if he felt that Lot 1, Block 2 and Lot 2, Block 3 needed
to be filled. Mr. Carlson felt that if these were city size lots they ahould be filled; however,
they are 2~ acre lots and there is ample room for a house. driveway, etc. There is no low land,
just little hills and dips.
Planning' and Zoning CC---;.ssi.r ....Meeting
March 10, 1981 - Minut~ \~
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Commissioner Kishel noted that the city only requires filling if the lot doesn't have enough
'igh, dry land to make the lot area requirement. Mr. Carlson stated there were 2 test borings
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',-one on these lots and at 19 feet they encountered no water.
Regarding the drainage calculations noted in Item 7 of Mr. Winner's memo, Mr. Carlson felt that
Mr. Winner had received the old calculations which had included the 5 acre exception.
Chairperson Bosell stated that the City Council is very concerned with the traffic pattern.
Ray Sowada of the Public Works Department and Fire Chief Bob Palmer also expressed concern over
another access to White Oaks Country Estates. Fire Chief Palmer also had noted that if the
jog in Flora Street is left in as it is, it should be named something other than Flora.
Mr. Carlson noted that he would like the jog in Flora to stay. To put Flora straight through
would eliminate one complete lot.
Bob Loftus, 13233 Lily Street N.W.. Coon Rapids - owns the property north of the proposed plat.
He stated that in 1974 he and Mr. Harstad (the former owner of Oakwood Estates), talked about
constructing l7lst Avenue out to County Road 9. However, at that time he chose not to join in
the development of the property. Mr. Loftus showed the Commission a sketch of how he wculd
like to have his property platted. He felt that the ideal situation would be to extend l7lst
Avenue out to County Road 9 and to move Flora Street over to the west and straighten out
Eidelweiss Street. He would then like to continue Eidelweiss up into his property ending with
a cul-de-sac so he would have frontage for two lots on Eidelweiss.
Chairperson Bosell stated that if l7lst Avenue is constructed out to County Road 9, l70th Lane
cannot go through as our ordinance does not allow double frontage lots and the County Highway
Department will not allow two roads that close together.
COIlD!lissioner Kishel noted that the Commission heard these same arguments when Mr. Harstad came
in with this plat. At that time, it was decided not to construct l7lst Avenue out to County 9.
Mr. Carlson stated that along Mr. Loftus's property is a 150 foot N.S.P. easement. He would
rather have the people buying the lots in Oakwood Estates drive through a wooded area instead
of under a power line.
Chairperson Bosell noted that in the past, we have only taken 60 feet for the roads rather
then 66 feet as shown on this plat. Mr. Carlson could probably reduce his road width to 60
feet. The Engineer will check on this.
Maris Schilling, 17025 Round Lake Boulevard - owns the property shown as the exception. He
just wanted to make sure that l70th Lane would not be on his property. Chairperson Bosell
assured Mr. Schilling that none of the storm water or the roads can be on his property; they
have to be contained in the plat.
Mr. Loftus questioned whether any part of his property would be in the plat. Chairperson
Bosell stated that if the City Council chooses to require an access be constructed to White
Oaks Country Estates, the City could institute a condemnation proceeding to take part of his
property.
Mr. Loftus stated that he was unaware that Mr. Carlson owned that property. He didn't know
he was going to plat it until he received the public hearing notice.
?~airperson Bosell asked if Mr. Carlson and Mr. Loftus would like to have the meeting adjourned
~.6r a few minutes so they could discuss the possibility of working together on the roads. Mr.
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P ann~ng an on~ng Co 3s~I'-./!eet~ng
March 10. 1981 - Minut~s~
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Carlson stated he did not. He noted that by dOing his plat the way it is drawn, he has
r"irtually created 5 lots for Mr. Loftus at no cost to him.
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'Chairperson Bosell noted that according to the ordinance, we must have the restrictive covenants
for White Oaks Country Estates in the file. The other items that still need to be done are:
1) the square footage of the lots must be shown on the plat; 2) the future subdivision must be
shown; 3) Lot 1. Block 1 has a restricted frontage; 4) the City Engineer needs to check on the
60 foot road width; 5) any of the lots that front on the long side will require variances. She
noted that the Park Board has recommended cash in lieu of land. She stated that her personal
feeling is that l7lst Avenue should not go through. As it is drawn. the plat is the best use
of the land.
Commissioner Apel stated that the Commission has to look at what Mr. Carlson brought in. not
what Mr. Loftus wants to do.
Harvey Kadlec, 16970 Crocus Street N.W. - stated that he is in favor of the plat the way it is.
He would like to see the park dedication fee used for developing the park in White Oaks Country
Estates.
Jim Haubner, 3046 - l72nd Avenue N.W. - asked Mr. Winner to speak about the feasibility of Mr.
Loftus's lots as he has drawn them. Engineer Winner stated that Flora and Eidelweiss could
be extended into cul-de-sacs on Mr. Loftus's property. However. he felt that by bringing
Eidelweiss up into Mr. Loftus's property there would not be 2~ acres on each side. He felt
that Mr. Loftus would not end up with 6 lots. which is what Mr. Loftus thrsugh he could get.
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Mr. Loftus asked the Commission if they could hold up on their decision on Mr. Carlson's plat
for a while until he could redraw his sketch plan.
Mr. Carlson objected as Mr. Loftus does not have any definite plan.
Commissioner Apel felt that there was no reason the Commission could hold up a decision on this
plat to see if something might happen that probably won't happen.
Chairperson Bosell asked Mr. Carlson if it would be feasible to move Flora Street to the west.
Mr. Carlson stated that that area is all wooded and where Flora is now shown has been cut for
the road.
Mr. Loftus asked for site approval on the sketch plan that he brought in. He felt that it would
be a matter of damages to him if Mr. Carlson's plat is approved as is.
Chairperson Bosell stated that if Mr. Carlson's plat goes through the way it is, Mr. Loftus
would have a hard time in court proving the Planning Commission was arbitrary. confiscatory. or
capricious. She informed Mr. Loftus that he could corne in and file a sketch plan at any time,
explaining to him the platting process that has to be followed.
Mr. Loftus noted that he would be crazy to plat his property if this plat goes through.
MOTION by Lobb. seconded by Kishel to close the public hearing. Motion carried unanimously.
Recess 8:58 - Reconvene 9:10.
Chairperson Bosell stated that Mr. Winner and Mr. Carlson get together to come up with a new
/- 'UIle for Flora Street.
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Discussion centered on tieing this plat in with White Oaks Country Estates. It was the concensus
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Planning and Zoning Ci )ss~Meeting
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of the Commission that they should be connected but at a future time rather than during this
,'-latting process.
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MOTION by Kishel, seconded by Lobb that the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission recommend
to the City Council approval of the preliminary plat known as Oakwood Estates, described as
the North half of the South half of the Northwest quarter of Section 9, Township 32, Range 24,
Anoka County, Minnesota, except the South 330 feet of the West 660 feet thereof, for the
following reasons: 1) The Anoka County Highway Department has given their approval for access
to County Road 9 with the condition that Lot 1, Block 1 front on l70th Lane; 2) The Commission
finds the plat is essentially in conformance with the ordinances of the City of Andover and is
consistent with the Comprehensive plan; 3) A public hearing was held. There was opposition
and support to the plat; 4) The Commission recommends that money be accepted in lieu of land
for park dedication in accordance with the Park Board's recommendation; 5) The Commission
recommends a variance be granted for the lot width due to the topography on the following lots:
Lots 1 and 3, Block 1 and Lots 1 and 2, Block 4 (Ordinance 8, (WW) (aaa); 6) The plat has been
reviewed by the City Engineer and notes the following engineering conditions that will be
changed: a) The drainage easement on Lot I, Block 2 will be recalculated to reflect the required
acre feet for the drainage area; b) Flora Street should be renamed to reflect the street grid
pattern of the city which would require an "R" or "I" name; c) The square footage should be
shown on the plat or on each lot to reflect that area; d) The future subdivision should be
noted in the legend. It is shown on the lots now but needs to be shown in the legend;, 7) At
the direction of the City Council we reviewed several alternatives for a street continuation
pattern connecting Eidelweiss at the north to l7lst Avenue N.W. at the Northeast corner of
the proposed preliminary plat. The Commission felt that Alternative #2 as proposed by the
City Engineer in his report of March 6, 1981 is the most reasonable street pattern and should
be constructed at the time the property to the north is developed.
Motion carried unanimously. This will go to the City Council on April 7, 1981.
Discussion: Inasmuch as the park dedication fee for Wobegon Woods was earmarked for the park
in White Oaks Country Estates, the Commission recommends that the park money for Oakwood
Estates be put in escrow to be used for the White Oaks Country Estates park also.
At this time, Frank Padula, 4550 - l73rd Avenue N.W., spoke to the Commission
possibility of constructing a restaurant on l73rd Avenue N.W. and 7th Avenue.
would be approximately 40' x 90', of log construction with a seating capacity
would be a Polish restaurant and he would be employing 15 to 20 people.
regarding the
The building
of 100. It
The Commission felt it would be a good idea. Chairperson Bosell suggested that Mr. Padula go
to the City Council to get their feelings before proceeding any further.
City of Ramsey Comprehensive Plan
This will be continued to March 24th.
MOTION by Johnson, seconded 'by Lobb to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. Meeting adjourned
at 10:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
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'. _.icki Volk
Recording Clerk