HomeMy WebLinkAboutMarch 2, 1983
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SPECIAL PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
MARCH 2, 1983
MINUTES
A Special meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by
Chairman d'Arcy Bosell at 7:30 P.M, Wednesday, March 2, 1983 at the Andover City Hall,
1685 Crosstown Boulevard N.W., Andover, Minnesota to discuss the updating of Ordinance
8, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Andover.
commissioners Present: Apel, Perry, Rogers, Schreiner, spotts
Commissioners Absent: Knutson
Also Present: Mayor Windschitl; Councilman Elling; Dave Almgren, Building
Inspector; Jim Schrantz, City Engineer; Bill Short; Susan Blachman
Bill Short, Barton-Aschman- noted that at a joint meeting of the City Council and Planning
Commission, it was decided that lot sizes for single family homes in. the urban district
should be 11,400 square feet minimum with a minimum width of 80 feet and a minimum depth
of 130 feet. Corner lots will be 90 feet with a 20 foot side yard setback. Mr. Short
noted that he has recommended that the front yard setback in the rural area be 30 feet
rather than 40 feet because eventually the rural area will become urban.
Commissioner Schreiner disagreed with the 30 foot setback in the rural district noting
that with a 40 foot setback you will not have on-street parking.
Bill Short mentioned that the Building Inspector wants a 40 foot setback so that there
is room for a septic system in the event it must be in the front yard.
Chairman Bosell noted that in the draft, the rear yard setback in the rural area has been
changed from 50 feet to 30 feet. She felt that there may be problems with accessory
buildings if that setback is changed.
Bill Short felt that on collector and minor arterial roads a 40 foot setback might be
better.
Dave Almgren, Building Inspector - noted that Northglen has a 30 foot setback and it
feels closed in when driving through that area.
Mayor windschitl stated that the City wants to have 50 foot setbacks on county roads.
Mr. Short asked the Commissioners if the city wants to have 30 foot setbacks or 40 foot
setbacks in the rural area.
Dave Almgren stated that he would like to see 40 feet in the rural area.
Chairman Bosell asked Mr. Almgren if people building new houses in the rural district
go strictly with the 40 feet now. Mr. Almgren noted that it varies; some people like to
build right at the 40 foot line, where others like to be back as far as possible.
~ Commissioner Apel felt that 40 feet would be reasonable.
Chairman Bosell asked Mayor Windschitl why the rear yard setback was set at 50 feet.
Mayor Windschitl noted that it was so people didn't build way in the back of their lots.
Woodridge Acres has some homes that are built way in the back.
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, ) Councilman Elling felt that the setback in the rear yard was not for houses so much as
for accessory buildings. Dave Almgren noted that accessory buildings can be 10 feet
from the property line.
Bill Short noted that in the other districts he set different requirements for the house
and accessory buildings.
Mayor Windschitl noted that years ago, you couldn't build a pole building unless the face
of it was the same as the house; if the house had brick on it, the pole barn had to have
brick.
Commissioner Rogers noted that Coon Rapids requires that also.
Bill Short asked if the front yard setback in the rural area not on a collector or minor
arterial street should be 30 feet or 40 feet.
commissioner Apel felt it should be 40 feet; Commissioner Perry felt 30 feet would be
sufficient because eventually that area will become developed; Commissioner spotts felt
40 feet would be best; Commissioner Rogers also felt it should be 40 feet; commissioner
Schreiner also felt it should be 40 feet.
Mayor Windschitl asked what we will do with areas that are platted now. Chairman Bosell
noted that right now the ordinance says 40 feet.
It was then decided that the rear yard setback in the rural area will be 40 feet for the
primary structure and 10 feet for accessory buildings.
Mayor Windschitl stated that a super insulated house would be 62 feet long or more. He
asked the commission to consider allowing a 10 foot setback on one side and a five foot
setback on the other side if the house exceeds 60 feet.
Dave Almgren noted that if you build that house and the person next door builds the same
house but turns it around, you would end up with a 10 foot setback between the two houses.
Mayor Windschitl stated that the five feet would always be on the same side so you would
have 15 feet between the houses.
Commissioner Rogers noted that he would not be in favor or a 5 and 10 foot setback because
the distance is measured from the foundation of the house and not the overhang.
Bill Short stated that the ordinance could read that the side yard setback will be 10 feet
on one side and 5 feet on the other and in no case would two 5 foot setbacks be adjacent
to each other.
Mayor Windschitl felt it could be an exception only for larger houses. Commissioner Perry
asked why we would allow a person building a 64 foot house to do this and not someone
building a 54 foot house.
Chairman Bosell noted that she would prefer to leave
for a variance if they are building a longer house.
for a variance would have to be changed.
it at 10 feet and have them come in
She further noted that the criteria
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) Commissioner Rogers noted that he would have no problem with the 5 and 10 foot setbacks
if they are measured from the overhang. Commissioner Schreiner felt that 5 and 10 feet
would be fine, measured from the foundation; Commissioner spotts felt 5 and 10 feet from
the foundation would be fine; Commissioner Perry noted that 5 and 10 feet would be OK
measured from the overhang; Commissioner Apel felt 5 and 10 feet from the foundation would
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) suitable; Chairman Bosell felt it should be 10 and 10 from the foundation.
Bill Short noted that on the five foot side, which will be the garage side, there will
be no two buildings closer than 15 feet. The garage is the only part of the structure
that can be 5 feet from the property line.
Commissioner Apel noted that the people will have to start building the house on the 10
foot side.
Commissioner Schreiner suggested staying at 10' and 10' and allowing variances for houses
that are longer than normal. He didn't feel that we would get that many variances.
Commissioner Perry stated that the reason we went to smaller lot sizes was to provide
affordable housing and most people are not going to be able to build larger houses on those
smaller lots.
It was the concensus of the Commission that the side yard setbacks would be 10 feet on
both sides.
Chairman Bosell suggested writing a policy statement that would say if the design of the
house is such, the encroachment could be 5 feet from the lot line as long as there is at
least 15 feet between houses. City Engineer Schrantz noted that the City of Blaine has
in their ordinance a statement that the Building Official can grant variances in cases like
this.
Bill Short then asked how the city wants to deal with areas in the rural area that are
now platted as half acre and one acre lots. He suggested that all existing lots of record
could be built on according to the requirements of R-l.
Dave Almgren noted that he spoke to the City Attorney regarding this matter and he noted
that the Supreme Court ruled that if a lot doesn't meet 60 percent of the requirements
it is a buildable lot if there are no health problems or septic problems in that area
and if the owner does not own the lots on either side of him.
Chairman Bosell asked if we could go to a septic system that doesn't require a drainfield.
In Europe they have self-contained systems. They also have this kind of system at Majestic
Oaks.
Mayor Windschitl felt that an inventory of all of the lots of record should be made and
the city should make a determination as to whether or not they are buildable.
Bill Short noted that if it can be shown that the site can support two backup septic systems
it will be buildable.
Recess 9:00 - Reconvene 9:15
The next item discussed was minimum lot sizes in the urban area where there is not sanitary
sewer available. Bill Short noted that the lot size could be three times the required
minimum lot size (11,400 square feet). Then when someone plats, you could require a future
resubdivision plan and make sure that they build on the lot so it can be split later.
, ) Chairman Bosell noted that they would have to plat as though the property were sewered and
the resubdivision would be unsewered.
Dave Almgren asked if we do this, who is going to pay for the streets 10 years later when
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sewer becomes available and the property is re-platted.
Bill Short noted that when the property owners petition for sewer, the streets will go in
at the same time and they will pay the costs. He also noted that we could discourage
development in areas where sewer is not available.
City Engineer Schrantz suggested that we could state that in order to subdivide you have
to have sanitary sewer. That is what other cities do.
Chairman Bosell asked what the maximum number of lots would be if you platted a 40 acre
parcel, taking out the streets, park, etc. Bill Short noted you would be able to get
approximately 107 lots.
(Commissioner Schreiner left at this time - 9:50 p.m.)
City Engineer Schrantz suggested that if someone wants to develop in the urban area but
sewer is not available, we could put the trunk in and assess everyone along the way.
Commissioner Rogers suggested that we could let the developer put the trunk in and have
him pay for the whole thing.
Chairman Bosell noted that the city can deal with any properties that are less than 20
acres. There was some question as to whether the area that the city can deal with is 20
acre parcels or five acre parcels with Bill Short suggesting that we ask the attorney
if we can change our resolution from five acres to 20 acres.
Mayor Windschitl stated that we could end up with one side of the MUSA line requ~r~ng
2: acre lots (Rural district) and the other side requiring 20 acre lots (urban district).
He felt we would run into problems with that. He asked what would happen if we allowed
someone with a 40 to plat some small lots and declare the rest of the 40 unbuildable until
sewer was available. It would be the same idea as a PUD.
Chairman Bosell is to ask the City Attorney about the 20 acre situation and also what
would happen if we said there is no development allowed in the Urban Service Area unless
you have sanitary sewer or unless you plat 20 acre parcels.
Commissioner Apel suggested a development line like Brooklyn Park has.
Bill Short noted that when 2: acre lots are platted in the rural area, we should make sure
that they are going re-subdividable when sewer comes through. Mayor Windschitl didn't
feel that was a good idea as we run out of sewer capacity at the City Hall site.
Mayor Windschitl asked that the Planning Commission consider combining Ordinances 8 and 10.
Bill Short suggested that we have two districts for manufactured homes - one would be
for rentals and one for owner occupied dwellings. He noted that there will be a demand for
such districts.
After some discussion, it was decided to take the proposed R-5 Manufactured Housing District
out of the draft ordinance.
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~ ) The M-l, Medium Density Residential District,
minimum lot size would be 16,000 square feet.
was discussed with Mr. Short noting that the
He will define buildable acre.
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Dave Almgren asked why garages are not required in the M-l district. He felt that this
is an area where they should be required.
Commissioner Perry felt that one garage and one parking space per unit should be required.
It was decided that Commissioner Perry's suggestion regarding garages will be incorporated
into the ordinance.
The Conditional Uses in the M-l District were then discussed with the concensus being that
Philanthropic and charitable institutions, nursing homes, hospitals, business in multiple
dwelling structures and clubs, lodges, fraternity and sorority houses be eliminated from
the ordinance. The section dealing with sanitary sewer will include the following statement:
'Public Water will be required where available.'
Going to the M-2, High Density Residential District, Mr. Short noted that they have left
the front yard setback at 40 feet and are recommending the maximum density be 15 units per
acre.
It was decided that section (Kl, Two or More Multiple Dwelling Structures on One Site
be eliminated. In Section (Ll Height Regulation, the height should be 35 feet rather
than 45 feet, and it should read 'whichever is less' rather than greater.
Dave Almgren asked if we want to require garages in this area also. Commissioner Apel
felt we should require one garage and one parking space per unit.
The following conditional uses will be eliminated: Hospitals, Business in multiple dwelling
structures, multiple family dwellings greater than four stories or 45 feet in height, clubs,
lodges, fraternity and sorority houses. Golf courses and churches will be moved from
permitted uses to conditional uses.
Chairman Bosell reminded the Commissioners that there will be a joint meeting with the
City Council on March 29, 1983.
March 15, 1983 was scheduled for the Planning Commission as a work session on the ordinance.
MOTION by Perry to adjourn.
Meeting adjourned at 11: 59 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
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Vicki Volk
Commission Secretary
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