HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 9, 1990
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CITY of ANDOVER
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - OCTOBER 9, 1990
MINUTES
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning
Commission was called to order by Chairperson Becky Pease on October
9, 1990; 7:30 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard
NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Bill Coleman, Ron Ferris, Steve Jonak, Bev
Jovanovich
Randal Peek, Wayne Vistad
City Administrator, d'Arcy Bosell; City
Planner, David Carlberg; City Assistant
Engineer, Todd Haas; and others
Commissioners absent:
Also present:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
September 25, 1990: Page 5, Other Business, second line, change to,
"...changing Section 8.07 as it pertains..."
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MOTION by Jovanovich, Seconded by Jonak, to approve them wIth the
change made. Motion carried on a 4-Yes, l-Abstain (Ferris), 2-Absent
(Peek, Vistad) vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: SPECIAL USE PERMIT - GENTHON POND - AMENDMENT TO THE
FLOOD PLAIN MAP
Chairperson Pease cal led the public hearing to order at 7:36 p.m. Mr.
Hass reviewed the proposed Special Use Permit to allow placement of
fill within the flood plain areas and an amendment to the Floodway
maps of Ordinance 50 for the proposed Genthon Ponds Addition. The
Andover Review Committee has reviewed this and doesn't have any
concerns. The amendment is to exclude a piece of high ground from the
flood plain. When the flood plain maps were done, the USGS maps were
used which have a topography of ten feet. The grading map is in
increments of two-foot contours, and the 100-year flood is more easily
identifiable. That piece of high ground technically should not be
included in the flood plain because it is above the 100-year flood.
The filled area is to build Butternut through a portion of the flood
plain.
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Commissioner Ferris asked how the City knows what affect the filling
in of a portion of the flood plain wil I have on the rest of the area.
Ms. Bosell explained the Commission wil I first look to see that the
criteria in Section 10.45 of Ordinance 50 is satisfied based on their
best guess. Once the City CouncIl takes action on it, it wil I be
submitted to the DNR and the Federal Insurance Administration for
their review. Their engineers and hydrologists will submit an opinion
in writing as to whether or not the proposal is workable and
acceptable.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - October 9, 1990
Page 2
(Public Hearing: SUP/Genthon Pond & Amendment to Flood Plain Map,
Continued)
The Commission then discussed several of the criteria set out in
Ordinance 50, Section 10.45:
1. Ms. Bosel I felt that because there are no streams or water
courses through the property, there is no impact. Because it is
a 100-year flood plain, it is an area that has not been
specifically studied by the US Geological Service. It is a
protected wetland and there in water. She also explained that
once this is approved, the flood plain map is amended to exclude
the the high spot. It has to do with the insurability of the
adjacent property. Mr. Haas also noted that nothing wil I be done
within the protected wetland.
7. Mr. Haas felt that with the wetlands to the east and west, the
best alternative is to put the road between the two, believing
there is no other alternative for this. They tried to put the
road at the most narrow part of the flood plain.
\ 8. Ms. Bosel I noted they do not know the future development of the
, ) adjacent area to the east. That area is in the City of Ham Lake,
and no information has been received from them. The areas to the
west are already divided into five-acre parcels, and the property
to the north is also divided into large lots.
9. Ms. Bosel I stated the proposal is in harmony with the
Comprehensive Plan and the Flood Plain Ordinance.
10. Mr. Haas said the 903 elevation wil I not encroach into the street
itself, though it may be in a portion of the right of way.
Within the 100-year flood, he felt safety of access to the
property is assured.
11. Ms. Bosel I stated there is no stream or water course through the
property, so this property is not impacted by a stream or water
course and this section does not apply. The Commission asked
about the heights of standing water, thinking there could be
streams of water flowing within a 100-year flood event. Ms.
Bosel I noted the existing Butternut was built under the same
conditions, and there has never been a flooding problem. There
wil I be even more stringent requirements for the construction of
Butternut through this plat because of the Flood Plain Ordinance.
Mr. Haas stated the expected heights in a 100-year flood is 903,
and that should not create a problem based on the plans provided
to the City.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - October 9, 1990
Page 3
(Public Hearing: SUP/Genthon Pond & Amendment to Flood Plain Map,
Continued)
13. Mr. Haas stated that should be changed to submission and
favorable review by the Lower Rum River Water Management
Organization, not the Coon Creek Watershed Board, as this area is
in the Lower Rum River watershed. Because of the policies of that
organization, the review wi]] actually be done by the City. Mr.
Schrantz has already reviewed this and has given a favorable
review. He will now Inform the LRRWMO what Is taking place.
There was no public testimony on this Item. Chairperson Pease asked
for a motion to close the public hearing.
MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, to so move. Motion carried
unanimously.
Ms. Bosel I noted Kirk Corson of Hokanson Development has been working
with the DNR on the plans. Mr. Corson stated the DNR didn/t have a
problem with the location of the road. He told them the road was
placed according to the desires of the US Army Corps of Engineers. He
stated they hope to get started yet this year, noting they began last
March, originally wanting to start last summer.
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MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, that we recommend to the City
Council approval of the Special Use Permit as requested by Hokanson
Construction for the SE 1/4 of the SE 1/4 of Section 1, Township 32,
Range 24, Anoka County, generally located In the vicinity of 17370 NW
University Avenue, to al low placement of fil I for the proposed Genthon
Ponds Addition; that a public hearing was held and no opposition was
heard; that in accordance with Ordinance 50, Section 10.45 and the 13
criteria there stated, that a review of al I 13 criteria found no
negative impacts that would result from approval of the Special Use
Permit; that the granting of the Special Use Permit would be
contingent upon review and certification of the Commissioner of
Natural Resources and Federal Insurance Administration; and a further
condition that the sunset clause of 12 months be applied to the
Special Use Permit upon its granting time. Motion carried
unanimously. <Peek and Vistad absent)
Chairperson Pease noted this item wil I go to the City Council on
November 6, 1990. Hearing closed at 8:18 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING: GENTHON POND - PRELIMINARY PLAT
The hearing was called to order at 8:18 p.m. Mr. Haas reviewed the
\ proposed plat and the comments of the Andover Review Committee as
,) outlined In the Agenda material. The plat consists of 12 single
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - October 9, 1990
Page 4
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(Public Hearing: Genthon Pond - Preliminary Plat, continued)
family rural residential lots; all lots meet the setpic system
requirements, have at least the minimum house pad size, and have a
basement floor elevation of 906. He also pointed out the two proposed
variances: 1) Lot 3, Block 2 because it is only 2.2 acres due to the
easement being required for University Avenue on the east: and 2) Lot
2, Block 1 does not meet the 300-foot lot width requirement due to the
topography of the property and to provide an entrance to the housing
pad on Lot 3.
Ms. Bosel I noted the plat does not meet the Metropolitan Council's
Rural Density Policy of 1/10, 4/40: and, therefore, it does not meet
the density requirement and wi I I not be eligible for FHA financing.
Kirk Corson. Hokanson Development - stated they are aware of that.
It was eligible when they first started; now it is not.
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The Commission and Staff reviewed the contours of Lot 4, Block 1, with
the Commission thinking the house pad is In the flood plain;
therefore, the lot is unbuildable. After review, Mr. Haas agreed it
is incorrect. It should be changed to follow the 903 line. The
gradIng plan shows It fil led up to 908. He suggested the Commission
could amend the previous motion on the Special Use Permit to al low
fil ling of this lot and to make a change on the flood plain map.
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The Commission and Staff also reviewed the proposed varIances in
detail. Lot 3, Block 2 - Staff noted University is an existing
roadway which the City maintains. When the preliminary plat is
approved, the right of way wil I not be included as a part of the
calculation. AI I three lots meet the 39,000 square-foot requirement.
Technically the lot could be 2.5 acres if the road were moved further
north; however, that is not possible because of the protected wetland.
Commissioner Ferris questioned whether the wetlands would be protected
more by reducing it to two lots instead of squeezing in an extra lot
in this area.
Ms. Bosel I noted the plans for the extension of University Avenue are
not known, and it may even be that that road is never built and the
easement would be vacated. At this time it is not required that
UnIversity be built, only that it be dedicated. Mr. Haas felt that
because the wetland Is so large, it is not feasible to construct
UnIversity further north.
Mr. Haas then pointed out the reason for the variance on Lot 2, Block
1. The lot lines could have been shifted to meet the 300-foot
requirements: however, because of the existIng topography and wetland,
it was moved to provide access to Lot 3. The CommissIon agaIn noted
, an alternative would be to eliminate one lot so the variance would not
) be needed and the flood plain would not need to be filled in the
vicinity of Lot 4.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - October 9, 1990
Page 5
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<Public Hearing: Genthon Pond - Preliminary Plat, continued)
On Lot 2, B]ock 3, Mr. Haas thought the proposal was to remove the
materia] from the high knob that was just removed from the flood
plain. He said the lot is buildable, noting the soil borings indicate
the elevation of the water table appears to be consistent throughout
the entire plat.
The Commission and Staff discussed the construction of University
Avenue at this time, noting it is not feasible without the cooperation
of Ham Lake and adjoining residents. At the same time, the Commission
was concerned that there is only one entrance/exit to this plat.
Mr. Corson - thought the maintained University Extension could be
used for emergency vehicles. Mr. Haas didn't think the City would
continue maintaining it since the existing property owner would have
access through the plat.
Commissioner Ferris asked why Butternut is proposed as a temporary cui
de sac, not a permanent one. Mr. Haas explained there is easement for
the eventual extension of Butternut to the north if that property
ever develops. There are residences on the parcels to the north. He
\ stated it is not the intent that it be a permanent cui de sac, that
~ this keeps the option open to extend Butternut to the north if
development warrants it. Mr. Haas stated he is also recommending that
University Avenue not be built at this time; therefore, a temporary
cui de sac should be placed at the end of 173rd as wel l.
Ms. Bose]] pointed out the buildings on Lot 3, B]ock 2 would be
lawful]y existing nonconforming structures on which they could not
make future improvements.
The hearing was then opened for public testimony.
Mike O'Nei]. 156 177th Avenue - understood the developer wanting to
make money on the 40 acres; but there are also people surrounding the
parcel that have 10 acres of land, asking what kind of impact 12
housing units will have on them. It brings in a lot more people,
reduces the wildlife, brings more traffic on the roads, and brings
more problems. He'd prefer to have the quality of life he had seven
years ago versus what he has today, implying this wi]] reduce it even
further. Mr. O'Neil asked about pushing Butternut through on the
easement abutting his brother's land. When that is done, it directly
affects the 20 acres that he and his brother own, thinking the City
can put it through whether they want it or not. He stated he'd prefer
that the developer be made to comply with the ordinances and not grant
variances. Mr. O'Neil estimated there are 25 acres of high ground,
not seeing how this many houses can be put in there without having
sewage and we]] problems, etc.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - October 9, 1990
Page 6
(Public Hearing: Genthon Pond - Preliminary Plat, continued)
John O/Neil. Minneapolis. owns 10 acres north of the area -
questioned whether the DNR, who generally is very restrictive on any
wetland, has given approval because of the fil I, reducing highland,
putting in culverts, etc. He was also concerned that the development
wil I force the extension of Butternut, plus he too felt that the
ordinance requirements should be adhered to, meaning no variances.
Ms. Bosell explained the policy of extending regular City streets at
the request of the adjoining property owners.
Carolyn Bolander. 99 Crosstown NW - felt the plan incorrectly shows
University Avenue and 173rd Lane as being joined. It is a dirt road at
this time; it is marked; and it is maintained by the City. She was
confused whether University Avenue would join 173rd, or if 173rd would
end in a cui de sac so there would be no access and egress on
University. Mr. Haas stated if it is not being used, the City would
no longer maintain it because it serves only one party that would now
have access from 173rd. University is not intended to be constructed
at this time; it would be left as is without any maintenance until
such time as both Andover and Ham Lake agree to construct it.
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,_) Ms. Bolander - was concerned that the road construction equipment
would use University Avenue to construct 173rd. Mr. Corson - stated
al I work being done in the plat would come in and out of Butternut and
173rd; University would not be used.
Ms. Bolander - stressed then for construction, for ingress and
egress, and for emergency purposes, there will only be one access to
the entire develoment for now. Mr. Haas stated yes, for now, until
either the property to the north or east develops. The adjoining lot
in the plat is already reduced by the road easement, so it wil I not be
affected at the time University is constructed.
John O/Neil - asked if the DNR has given some inkling of approval of
this plat. Staff stated yes; no wetlands are proposed to be fil led
in, only the flood plain. Any approval would be contingent upon
approval of the DNR.
Mike O/Neil - asked about the tax forfeit triangular piece at the
entrance of Butternut. Mr. Corson - stated they have ownership of
it.
There being no further public testimony, Chairperson Pease asked for a
motion to close the public hearing.
MOTION by Coleman, Seconded by Ferris, to so move. Motion carried
) unanimously.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
\ Minutes - October 9, 1990
/ Page 7
(Public Hearing: Genthon Pond - Preliminary Plat, continued)
Discussion was on the Commissioners' concerns that the plat is not
ready to go on because Lot 4, Block 1 is not buildable, that the two
variances are not acceptable because there are alternatives, because
of their sensitivity of the flood plain and wetlands area, and because
of their concern over building in that area in general.
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MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, that the Andover P & Z
recommends to the Andover City Council denial of the Preliminary Plat
of Genthon Pond Addition based upon the variances required, more
specifically the variance for Lot 3, Block 2, in that it does not meet
the 2.5-acre requirement in that it is only 2.2 acres in size.
Secondly, Lot 2, Block 1, does not meet the minimum width at the
setback requirements as required In Ordinance 8, that these two
variances are not required and they can be eliminated by better
planning -- more specifically, Lots 1, 2, and 3 of Block 2 is
recommended to be reduced to two lots, not three, and Lot 4 of Block 1
is deemed at this time by the drawing in front of us to be
unbuildable. To make it buildable would require extensive fill within
the flood plain. It is our recommendation that that fil I not be done;
it is not required, in that to facilitate it would be to allow a
variance on Lot 2. It is therefore recommended that Lot 4 be
eliminated and the width from Lot 4 be spread across Lots 3, 2, and 1,
thus making al I three buildable lots within the existing ordinances
and also eliminate the need for fil I within the flood plain of Lot 4.
That this recommendation would be passed on to the City Council for
their meeting on November 6. Motion carried unanimously. (Peek and
Vistad absent)
The matter is to go to the City Council at its November 6 meeting.
(An addition to this motion was made later in the meeting)
Commission recessed at 9:27; reconvened at 9:39 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING: AMEND ORDINANCE 8. SECTIONS 4.06. 4.21. 7.03 & 8.07
Ms. Bosel I reviewed the changes and corrections to those sections of
Ordinance 8 relating to permitted encroachments, fences and wal Is,
uses excluded, and signs.
There was no public testimony on this item. Chairperson Pease asked
for a motion to close the pUblic hearing.
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MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, to close the public hearing.
Motion carried unanimously.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
\ Minutes - October 9, 1990
/ Page 8
<Public Hearing: Amend Ordinance 8, Continued)
MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, that the Planning and Zoning
Commission pass on to the City Council for recommendation to approve
the changes to Ordinance 8, Sections 4.06, 4.21, 7.04, and 8.07 as
presented by Staff in their letter of 9 October 1990; that a public
hearing was held and that there were no voices brought forth. That
this be presented to the Andover City Council on their meeting of
November 6. Motion carried unanimously.
GENTHON POND PRELIMINARY PLAT. CONTINUED
MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, to reconsider my motion on
Genthon Pond Preliminary Plat. Motion carried unanimously.
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MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, at the end of the motion
state that a public hearing was held and that there were two Andover
residents that did bring forth concerns with regards to the density of
the property under the proposal, and that both of these residents felt
that the granting of variances was not in the best interest of the
City nor is it in the best interest to the area around It. They
specifically support the recommendation made by Planning and Zoning
that those variances in terms of lot size and setback not be al lowed,
thus reducing the impact to the area from 12 lots down to 10 as the
motion recommends. Motion carried unanimously.
PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED: ORDINANCE NO. 29. DISEASEED SHADE TREES
Mr. Carlberg recommended this item be tabled until they obtain
further information from the County's Oak Wilt/Diseased Tree Hotland
and the Department of Agriculture.
MOTION by Ferris, Seconded by Coleman, that we table this item as
per the request based upon further input from Janette Monear and David
Stephenson, continue it to October 23. Motion carried unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
Commissoner Coleman reported on a Star City Conference held last week.
One of the points brought out was that wIthin five to ten years,
people wil I not be able to give away quite a few houses in the Twin
Cities area because of the overbuilding, especially single-family
suburban type homes. He felt things were presented that should be
thought about as the Comprehensive Plan is updated. He also presented
a brochure.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
\ Minutes - October 9, 1990
J Page 9
(Other Business, Continued)
Ms. Bosel] then updated the Commission on the Metropolitan Council's
Rural Development Guideline of 1/10, 4/40 housing density in the rural
areas and noted the frustrations of their reasoning being to preserve
agricultural lands of which Andover has none, of the limited
qualifications on land use planning of those who are making the
decisions, of the further rules and restrictions they are proposing to
make on cities with regard to septic systems and wel Is, etc. She
felt the biggest issue is that of the Metropolitan Council, a
non-elected body, having the authority to dictate zoning and other
regulations to the cIties. The cities should be able to govern
themselves based on their plan.
Ms. Bosel I noted the report has been accepted, and a public hearing at
Bunker Hil Is wil] be held on November 15. She recommended that
everyone be made aware of the hearing and attend it. The Commission
felt that the City should take a strong stand on the issue and be
represented at that hearing, recommending Ms. Bosell bring the item up
to the Council for their consideration and response prior to that
hearing.
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There being no further business, Chairperson Pease declared the
meeting adjourned at 10:38 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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V~~ella A. Peach
Recording Secretary
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