HomeMy WebLinkAboutJanuary 23, 1990
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CITY of ANDOVER
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
MEETING MINUTES
JANUARY 23, 1990
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The regularly scheduled meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission
was called to order at 7:30 P.M. on Tuesday, January 23, 1990 by Chairman
Rebecca Pease at the Andover City Hall Offices, 1685 Crosstown Blvd.,
And~ver, MN.
Commissioners Present:
Chairman Pease, Ron Ferris, Bev Jovanovich, Randal Peek,
Gretchen Sabel, Don Spotts, Wayne vistad
Others Present:
Jay Blake, Todd Haas
Approval of Minutes
Bev Jovanovich requested
be amended as follows:
minutes of the 1/09/90 Planning and Zoning Commission
Page Four, Paragraph Eight should read "Bev Jovanovich doesn't believe
shooting should be allowed within city limits of Andover due to population
growth."
Jovanovich also requested minutes note she presented to commission a packet of
various cartridges with information pertaining to velocity and range.
Commissioner vistad stated it must further be noted that majority of cartridges
presented by Jovanovich are prohibited in this area by State Statute.
Randal Peek requested minutes refer to discussion of Firearms Ordinance rather
than Hunting Ordinance.
Commissioner Ferris made a MOTION to approve minutes as corrected. Second to
motion by Wayne Vistad.
Commissioner Ferris questioned Blake regarding the sheriff's response to
Alarm Ordinance.
Blake stated the sheriff has made no further response other than initial support
for creation of an alarm ordinance.
Ferris stated that approval of ordinance as written must be obtained by sheriff's
department as ordinance states written notification of response to alarm call
will be posted at site by sheriff's department.
Blake agreed to obtain input from sheriff's department prior to forwarding
Alarm Ordinance to City Council.
Firearms Ordinance Discussion
Mr. Tim Wallace, Assistant wildlife Manager for the DNR was present to discuss
cont'd.. .
Andover Planning andc=)ing Commission
1/23/90 Meeting Minutes
Page Two
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area wildlife management and answer questions asked by city staff and members
of the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Mr. Wallace explained his position involves working with government agencies and
private parties on decisions impacting wildlife. His recent work has been the
Management of Early and Late Experimental Metro Canadian Goose Hunt - an effort
to control Canadian Goose population.
commissioner Ferris asked Wallace if capturing and moving deer would be an
alternate method of controlling area deer population. Ferris stated area of
his concern is residential and he opposes hunting in a residential area.
Wallace estimated the cost of capturing and transporting deer to be $1,000 -
$1,500 per animal. The drug used to tranquilize animals is both expensive and
federally controlled. Further, an animal treated with such drugs cannot be
used for food.
Vistad stated a dangerous situation would be created should a deer injected with
drugs make its way into a hunting area.
Wallace agreed that is a valid concern.
Vistad asked what percentage of money used for game management and the
enhancement of wildlife quality comes from hunting licenses.
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Wallace replied all revenue generated by hunting licenses and excise taxes is
used for wildlife programs.
Vistad asked if eliminating the hunter would eliminate the quality of wildlife.
Wallace stated that while he cannot say one absolutely follows the other, no other
user group in Minnesota is tapped to the extent of hunters and fishermen.
Wallace stated the license fee is a fairly small amount of what the hunter
actually spends on his sport. In addition there is a 10% tax on equipment.
Vis tad asked if the money received from hunters is directly related to the
improvements in wildlife quality in the City of Andover.
Wallace replied that certainly a portion of money is used in area to assure
wildlife values are not hindered under Statute 105.
Vistad questioned the safety and effectiveness of bow hunting in a high density
area.
Wallace stated bow hunting is reasonably safe but not the most successful method.
Bow hunters tend to prefer to hunt in a low density area. A method used in
at least three metro areas is the hiring of sharpshooters. The cost of hiring
expert reflemen is almost always borne by the municipality. The sharpshooters
are ~equired to turn over the deer carcasses.
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cont'd...
Andover Planning and Oing
1/23/90 Meeting Minutes
Page Three
Corrunission
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commissioner Ferris asked if there is a particular season when sharpshooters
are allowed to hunt.
Wallace answered there is no particular season though it is usually done during
the winter.
Commissioner Sabel asked who determines the number of deer to be taken.
Ferris asked how determination is made that an area is indeed overpopulated.
Blake stated there have been at least two deer/car collisions on Highway 7.
Wallace stated studies have shown that deer/car collisions are related to volume
of traffic as much as deer population. To determine population of deer, an aerial
census is done using a helicopter flying at low altitude. Census is taken during
winter months. Number, of visable deer are counted and added to an estimated
number of deer that are not visable from air.
Vistad asked Wallace if he feels area in question near Highway 7 can safely be
hunted.
Wallace could not answer absolutely without pinpointing the exact area. He
stated his belief that more areas can safely be hunted than most people realize.
While there is always some risk, the area could be relatively safe in terms of
normal activities.
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Vistad asked for statistics showing number of persons shot due to hunting in area.
Wallace recommended checking with the local sheriff's department for that
information.
Sabel asked what is allowed in City of Andover regarding hunting under State
regulation.
Wallace answered the "normal" hunting seasons are allowed. Big game is allowed
only by shotgun with slugs. 22's and other rifles are not prohibited by state
for small game.
Sabel asked if trapping is allowed by state in Andover. Wallace replied that
trapping is allowed.
Jovanovich stated that a recent news story reported 175 persons were killed last
year in hunting accidents.
Wallace believes that figure would include many self inflicted accidental deaths.
Wallace noted the state has a regulation in the Commissioners Order stating:
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On another persons agricultural land or on a public right-of-way, a
person may not take a wild animal with a firearm within 500 feet of a
building occupied by a human or livestock without written permission. On
land other than agricultural land, a person may not take a wild animal
with a firearm within 200 feet of a building occupied by a human without
oral permission.
cont'd.. .
Andover Planning andc=2ing
1/23/90 Meeting Minutes
Page Four
Commission
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Regulation is more restrictive on agricultural land.
If land is non-agricultural and not posted it can be hunted.
Ferris asked if there is a season for beaver trapping.
Wallace replied there is a season but it varies year to year based on beaver
population. For example, the trapping season for beaver in 1987 was
October 24 through the last day in February. The season also varies within
state according to zone due to prime of pelt. There are special situations where
trappers designated by local conservation officers are allowed to trap an
extended season.
Kathy Rem is area conservation officer for Andover.
Goose hunting is allowed by state unless local ordinance prohibits.
There is an increased risk of disease around highly concentrated flocks of
geese. The geese are attracted to open water. DNR discourages people from
feeding geese.
Ferris asked if it is correct that State Statutes don't limit weapons for game
other than deer and waterfowl. Wallace conceded that statement is correct.
For practical reasons only certain types of guns would be used for small game,
but this is not regulated.
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Wallace stated there is a size limit on traps used on land but no size limit for
traps underwater.
Sabel cited her concern regarding traps is for human safety. she questioned
if an underwater trap could create the danger of drowning should a child become
trapped.
Wallace stated the traps are placed in shallow water. The theory behind trap
in water is that the animal trys to escape by diving into the water. A
person would tend to kick the trap off.
Peek asked Wallace what changes in wildlife he anticipates in the next five to
ten years in Andover.
Wallace believes there will be less available habitat.
from area as habitat changes. Much will depend on the
Area will continue to see problems with geese.
Mammals will shift away
density of development.
Pease asked Wallace if he could suggest boundary lines. Wallace suggested a
1500 foot setback from residential as is used in Ramsey rather than mapping
boundary lines.
Ferris cited the concern about hunters in Ramsey firing across the river.
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Haas stated the conflict seems
Andover not allowing hunting.
rather than complaints.
to be between Ramsey allowing hunting and
The nature of phone calls seems to be inquiries
cont'd...
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Andover Planning and zoning Commission
1/23/90 Meeting Minutes
Page Five
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Blake stated some change needs to be made because currently hunting is
allowed next to the new elementary school.
Sabel asked if hunting is allowed on roadways. Wallace answered shooting
across a roadway is prohibited.
Pease asked if "No Hunting" signs are posted near school.
Haas believes area is not posted.
vis tad recommended a 1500 foot setback to cover any areas in need of
protection.
Ferris favors mapped boundaries in addition to setback to make prohibited areas
very clear to all residents.
Vis tad asked Wallace which method of establishing boundaries works best.
Wallace replied the setback works well in Ramsey.
Wallace stated an option is to allow deer hunting only from stands. This
restriction has been used in Ft. Snelling State Park.
Wallace reiterated it is difficult to control wildlife without hunting.
Commissioner Jovanovich presented firearms ordinances from Burnsville, Dayton,
East Bethel, Eden Prairie, Chanhassen and Champlain.
Ferris asked Wallace for suggestions on safety measures that could be taken.
Wallace feels a 500 foot setback is adequate for hunting with shotgun.
Wallace suggested commission contact Federal Cartridge for stats on ballistics.
Vistad stated reloading manuals carry ballistic information.
Wallace stated an arrow will travel considerably less distance than a shotgun
slug. Lost arrows are generally not regarded as a hazard as they tend to bury
into the dirt.
Mr. Wallace invited commission members to call him with any further questions.
Blake requested the commission place additional restrictions on the discharge
of firearms near developed areas. This request comes in response to concerns
expressed by residents to city elected officials.
Vistad suggested no hunting be allowed within one mile of a school.
Blake stated recent problems at Hills of Bunker have heightened residents
concern in regard to discharge of firearms.
cont 'd.. .
Andover Planning & zr-~g Commission
1/23/90 Meeting Minu~~d
Page Six
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Ferris stated that because state doesn't restrict small game weapon, city
ordinance must address issue.
Ferris stated distraction of children and fear are other concerns in regard to
hunters in area of schools.
Ferris believes map should show boundaries.
vistad stated that as areas develop, map with boundaries will need to change.
Pease feels a map will be helpful to hunters who may not have read ordinance.
The map should outline major thoroughfares and be very exact.
Commissioner Spotts recommended writing a negative ordinance as the state does.
Ordinance would read "You cannot........"
vis tad made a MOTION that city staff draft ordinance and include a map showing
restricted areas in northern part of city and including a "buffer zone" around
school. Draft will change definition of bow and arrow. Draft will restrict
firearms allowed to shotgun, BB and pellet guns. Section 2, Part B, Number 1
will be reworded to say "projectile does not carry beyond property line."
Second to motion by Ferris.
Blake will have draft prepared for 2/13/90 Planning & zoning meeting.
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Peek requested notice be printed in city newsletter that a Public Hearing
regarding firearms is tentatively scheduled for February or March of 1990.
Sabel requested notice makes clear that Discharge of Firearms Ordinance includes
hunting.
All commissioners favor motion.
Agenda item 5, Ordinance 8 General Amendments was deleted from discussion pending
City Attorney's review.
Ordinance 44 Discussion
At the request of several landowners surrounding the junkyards, the Andover
planning & Zoning Commission was requested to review screening requirements of
the Junkyard Ordinance.
The rapid population growth of the urban area of Andover has resulted in greater
concern over the effect of the junkyards on surrounding properties.
HUD has not indicated what type screening is acceptable. Due to the topography
of area, screening is very difficult. Development will be severely hindered
on properties surrounding junkyards.
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Included in packet to commissioners are three maps of area. Map #1 indicates
the eight licensed junkyards in Andover. Map #2 indicates the properties zoned R4
in or near area of junkyards. Map #3 shows current fencing requirements. A
green fence of evergreens is not required where junkyard abuts another junkyard.
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Andover Planning & z~ng
1/23/90 Meeting Minutes
Page Seven
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Commission
Fencing has not been inspected.
Vistad stated a very large fence can also be unattractive. Vistad questioned
if in the future only interior storage can be allowed.
Blake stated that issue is in discussion stages with legal counsel.
Ferris stated site can't be controlled as long as stacking is allowed.
Solution would be to require fence to be 1 1/2 times the height of stacked
junk autos.
Ferris requested direction by City Council before Planning and zoning Commission
attempts to revise Junkyard Ordinance.
Ferris made a MOTION to table discussion pending direction from City Council
and additional research by city staff.
Second to motion by Vev Jovanovich. All commissioners favored motion; item
tabled.
Other Business
Included in the packet to commissioners is:
Complete Building Department Report
summary of the Anoka County Light Rail Transit Plan
National ABA Conference Announcement
Rebecca Pease tentatively scheduled Planning and zoning Commission party
for February 16, 1990 at her home.
MOTION made by Commissioner vistad to adjourn. Second to motion by Ron Ferris.
All commissioners favor motion; meeting adjourned at 9:30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Theresa Hogan