HomeMy WebLinkAboutDecember 10, 1991
()
o
f\
....J
o
o
~
CITY of ANDOVER
PLAmHlm AND ZONmG COMMISSION MEETING - DECEMBER 10. 1991
MI1JUTES
The Regular BI-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning
Commission was called to order by Chairperson Randy Peek on December
10. 1991. 7:30 p.m.. at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown
Boulevard NW. Andover. Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Bonnie Dehn. Steve Jonak. Bev
Jovanovich. Marc McMullen. Becky Pease
Maynard Apel
City Planner. David Carlberg
Assistant City Engineer. Todd Haas
Others
Commissioners absent:
Also present:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
November 26. 1991: Page 4, third line, change to: 11,400 square-foot
minimum
MOTION by Dehn, Seconded by Jovanovich, to approve the Minutes as
amended. Motion carried on a 4-Yes (Peek. Dehn. Jonak, Jovanovich>,
2-Present (McMullen. Pease>, l-Absent (Apel> vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: SPECIAL USE PERMIT - PERMANENT MONUMENT SIGN. 140TH
LANE NW AND HANSON BOULEVARD NW. HILLS OF BUNKER LAKE
7:32 p.m. Mr. Carlberg reviewed the request of Hills. Inc.. to allow
the continued placement of a permanent monument sign for area
identification at 140th Lane NW and Hanson Boulevard NW. Lot 1. Block
1 and Lot 1. Block 5, Hills of Bunker Lake 4th Addition. The City
Council has directed the Commission to look into the matter of
Identification signs. In this case. there is a monument on either
side of 140th Lane. though the actual size of the two identification
circles combined does not exceed 32 square feet. the maximum allowed
by Ordinance.
Mr. Carlberg reviewed the applicable ordinances, noting Staff sees it
as two separate signs though they are very attractive monuments. The
Commission may consider the monuments as one gate sign. He did not
feel a variance is applicable because of the issue of having to show
hardship. Apparently there was a misunderstanding between the
developer and the person constructing the sign as to who was going to
get the permIts. but no SpecIal Use PermIt nor sIgn permIt were
obtained in this case. At this time there Is no penalty for
after-the-fact permits. Mr. Carlberg also stated the Interpretation
of a "development" has been each phase: therefore a plat developed in
four phases would be allowed four monument identIfication signs.
,
~~
o
, Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
) Minutes - December 10. 1991
Page 2
(Public Hearing: SUP, Permanent Monument Sign, 140th & Hanson, Cont.)
Chairperson Peek did not have a problem with the monument sign on
140th. feeling it does fall within the ordinance; but he was concerned
with having three identifIcation signs within a distance of four
blocks, which is what they now have along Hanson Boulevard.
Tonv Emmerich. developer - stated the Hills of Bunker Lake has been
developed in four separate phases. He stated the signs on 137th and
138th are there only temporarily. They will be removed when the
neighborhood business develops out there. There are sign permits for
those signs as permanent signs, but again Mr. Emmerich stated they are
wooden signs that will be removed.
The hearIng was opened for pUblic testimony.
, J
Jerrv Windschitl. 3640 152nd Lane NW - stated the signs on 140th are
about as well done as can be done with an entrance sIgn to a project.
He suggested the entire process can be sImplIfied by changIng the
ordinance to allow the monument signs. an artist's drawing and
locations, to be proposed with the platting process. The ARC
Committee could give a recommendation on the signage when reviewing
the plat, which would eliminate the problem of the signing being
overlooked. A developer is trying to present as good an image as he
can with their developments. It is a big investment, so they want
them to be attractIve.
Tonv Emmerich - didn't believe an ordinance can be written to cover
all situations, agreeing that Mr. WindschIti's idea is something that
wil I eventually have to be done. The City doesn't want to discourage
nice signs. but all situations can't be covered In an ordinance.
Someone will have to review them on a case-by-case basis.
After some discussIon, the Commission felt it would avoid a lot of
confusion if the signage of a development would take place at the time
of the preliminary plat; however, they also felt that it is to the
City's benefit to retain control of the signing via a Special Use
Permit. Signage would be made a part of the Initial platting
requirement, and the hearings for the signing Special Use Permit would
be held at the same time the prelIminary plat is heard. Mr. Carlberg
stated the sign permit application would then be made a part of the
development packet.
There being no further pUblic testimony, Chairperson Peek asked for a
motion to close the publIc hearing.
MOTION by Pease, Seconded by Dehn, to so move. Motion carried on a
) 6-Yes. l-Absent (Apel) vote.
/ ,
u
u
, )
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 10, 1991
Page 3
(Public Hearing: SUP. Permanent Monument Sign, 140th & Hanson. Cont.>
The Commission first discussed the specific Special Use Permit
request. Chairperson Peek again stated he felt the sign is a single
monument and complies with the ordinance with regard to size. His
main concern is the temporary signs, as he would like to see a
specific time set as to when those signs will be removed. With so
many signs within such a short distance, it was his opinion the two
temporary signs actually are real estate signs. He also disagreed
with the Staff's Interpretation of a development as being each phase,
preferring to have the number of identification signs limited to one
per side.
'\
, /
Mr. Carlberg thought temporary signs are limited to a life of two
years. Mr. Emmerich again stated he thought the permits are for
permanent signs: however, they will be removed when the Neighborhood
Business property develops. He cannot guarantee when that will be.
He would like to see those two signs remain during the summer. There
is one other monument for the development along Bunker Lake Boulevard.
For the next meeting the Commission directed Mr. Carlberg to research
the status of the signs on 137th and 138th as to whether they have
sign permits and whether those permits are for temporary or permanent
signs.
Chairperson Peek felt it would be a mistake to grant a Special Use
Permit without looking at the existing signage. He didn't think the
intent of the ordinance was to have three project identification signs
within a four-block area. Commissioner McMullen argued those signs are
irrelevant to this request. They comply with the ordinance. The only
question is whether the sign on 140th Lane is one sign or two, and he
believes it Is one sign because it falls within the square footage
requirement of no more than 32 square feet. Commissioner Jonak also
felt that it may be better to look at all the signs relating to that
develompent now and eliminate some of them now. Mr. Carlberg
questioned whether the Commission can require Mr. Emmerich to take
down signs that are permitted by ordinance. Some Commissioners felt
he could make that gesture, but It cannot be required of him.
MOTION by McMullen, Seconded by Pease, that we recommend adoption of
the Special Use Permit and consider the coverage as one sign based on
the fact that It falls within the 32-square-foot requirement. The
Permit is to allow for the continued placement of a permanent monument
area Identification sign on property located at 140th Lane NW and
Hanson Boulevard NW described as Lot 1, Block 1 and Lot 1, Block 5,
Hills of Bunker Lake Fourth Addition.
, )
The Commission finds the request meets the criteria established In
Ordinance No.8, Section 5.03, including: the use will not be
detrimental to the health, safety, morals or general welfare of the
community: the use will not cause serious traffic congestions or
hazards: the use will not depreciate surrounding property: and the use
is in harmony with the Comprehensive Plan.
u
u
"
)
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 10. 1991
Page 4
(Public Hearing: SUP, Permanent Monument Sign, 140th & Hanson. Cont.)
(Motion continued)
The Commission also fInds that the request meets the criteria
established in Ordinance No.8, Section 8.07. The Permit is
contIngent upon the following conditions In accordance with Sections
8.07 and 5.03:
1. The area for development is larger than 5 acres.
2. There shall be only 1 sign per development.
3. The maximum square footage of the sIgn is 32 square feet In
area.
4. The sIgn Is located 10 feet from any property lIne.
5. The SpecIal Use PermIt shall be subject to annual revIew by
Staff .
6. There shall be a maIntenance agreement for the monument.
DISCUSSION: CommIssioner McMullen stated the decision when dealing
with other signs in the future may depend upon the dIscussIon as to
whether or not to make a change to the ordInance. He was not wIllIng
to add a clause relatIve to the exIstIng sIgnage.
, )
VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Dehn, McMullen, Pease; NO-Jonak. JovanovIch.
Peek: ABSENT-Apel. Motion faIled. The item will go to the City
Council on January 7, 1992. wIth no recommendatIon. 8:17 p.m.
The Commission then dIscussed possIble changes to the SIgn Ordinance.
Chairperson Peek agaIn stated he felt It Is a mIstake to look at
additions as developments, that the entIre development should be
regarded as one and allow one sign per frontage. Another Issue is
whether the square footage of the monument Itself should be addressed.
Several CommissIoners agreed wIth the one sIgn per frontage. not per
phase of the development.
Mr. Windschltl - stated they are required to have multIple accesses
to their developments. The sIgns give the neighborhood an identIfy as
to where they lIve, from an appearance standpoInt, in giving
directions to others, and In how to dlstlnquish It from other
developments. Monuments for developments have only been used in
Andover for the last fIve years or so. and they are expensIve to put
up. They try to put them at the maIn poInts of Interest. By lookIng
at the total sIgnage at the tIme of the plat. It can be determIned
how many are needed and where they should be located.
,-J
Mr. Windschitl went on to say that the SIgn OrdInance has been the
most confusing over the years, either very strIctly enforced or very
lenIently enforced at any gIven tIme. He also noted that each phase
of a prelIminary plat Is consIdered a separate legal entIty, often
sold to and developed by someone other than who orIgInated the
preliminary plat. And that development is entitled to a monument.
\
V
(~)
'\
)
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 10. 1991
Page 5
(Public Hearing: SUP, Permanent Monument Sign, 140th & Hanson. Cont.>
For the next meeting. the Commission directed Staff to address one
identification sign per frontage rather than per development phase; to
research the definition of what a development is; and to research the
correlation between platting and the applicatIon for a SpecIal Use
PermIt for a sign. Staff was asked to check with the CIty Attorney to
recommend a procedure for the signage and platting process. 8:37 p.m.
SKETCH PLAN - WEYBRIDGE
Mr. Haas revIewed the Andover RevIew CommIttee's comments on the
proposed WeybrIdge sketch plan, a development proposIng 147 lots In an
R-4, Single FamIly Urban distrIct, off Andover Boulevard bordering the
raIlroad tracks.
Jerrv WindschItl - explained al I of the parcels wIll be elIgible for
sanitary sewer and will be rezoned in the plattIng process. He also
explained the reasons for some of the changes of this plan from the
original preliminary plat. Vale Street NW was made a straight road
,\ to accommodate a change In the sanItary sewer plan, as the consulting
\ / engineers prefer to extend the trunk sewer lIne north along that road.
Some of the items are part of an agreement he made wIth the CIty as
part of the negotIating process when Creek View Crossing was
developed. The number of entrances to the park remain the same, but
they have been moved because of the adjoinIng plat and the change in
the locatIon of the sewer line. The park dedIcation is consistent
with what was in the original plat.
Mr. Windschitl also stated the CIty allowed the outlots on the east
side of Xeon when that plat was fInaled wIthout holdIng publIc
hearings. Normally It would be requIred that those remenant parcels
be attached to the adjoining lot; however, he does not own those
remanent parcels and has no control over them. Ideally, there would
be identificatIon signs placed at each road. The property wIll be
developed in phases. He explaIned the CommissIon may be seeing more
phased developments that are smaller becuase of the new state law that
taxes undeveloped lots the full amount immedIately. In the past they
had three years before a lot was taxed fully. That will have a
dramatIc effect on the plattIng process.
Mr. Haas stated he has asked Anoka County for an opinIon on the
entrance of Vale Street onto ACSH 16 due to Its close proxImIty to the
Burlington Northern RaIlroad tracks. He has not yet received a
response. The ARC CommIttee Is also suggestIng the bubbles be
elIminated from the varIous IntersectIons, as they cause the drIveways
to be very close together and are dIffIcult to snow plow.
\
~)
, )
'\
\. )
\
, )
.,
\../
'- )
PlannIng and ZonIng CommIssIon MeetIng
Minutes - December 10. 1991
Page 6
(Sketch Plan - Weybrldge, ContInued)
Mr. Wlndschltl stated the lot depth for those lots off Andover
Boulevard wIl I be corrected In the prelImInary plat. The bubbles
provIde a varIatIon In the development. They are allowed by the
Clty/s ordInances. Some cItIes construct the curb for 90 degrees but
leave the easement for the bubble, whIch leaves the appearance that
the lot is bIgger, but It Is really CIty property. He wIll look at
the possibilIties again.
Mr. Wlndschitl stated he does have a house style that wIll fit on Lots
4 and 5 of Block 2. The reason for the sIze of those lots Is to match
up storm sewer lInes wIth Creek VIew CrossIng.
Mr. Haas stated the Staff recommendatIon Is the walkway access be 40
feet rather than 20 feet because of the sanItary sewer lIne. Mr.
Windschitl stated the 20-foot walkway was In the original park
agreement. It is really an engineering questIon to make sure the City
has the ability to comply with OSHA laws regarding that sewer line.
They wIll work that out.
Mr. Windschitl also stated he has approached Burlington Northern to
allow him to construct a 6-foot berm between the railroad and the lots
along the entire length of the railroad. He has received a favorable
response. but he does not yet know If that wIll be allowed. They are
furniShIng engIneering reports on the contours and draInage. He has
also received a permIt from the Coon Creek Watershed Board. No
permits are needed from the DNR or the Army Corps of EngIneers.
Mr. Haas stated another Item would be that the developer be
recommended to apply for a SpecIal Use PermIt for the signs to be
processed at the time the prelImInary plat Is heard. The CommIssion
expressed some concern about havIng two sIgns for two developments at
the same entrance of Xeon Street and Andover Boulevard.
Mr. Windschitl asked that sInce thIs area Is nearing the end of the
urban servIce area, should he consider a smali NeIghborhood Business
area next to the raIlroad tracks. After a brIef dIscussIon, the
CommissIon dId not feel one Is necessary because of those already
specIfIed In the ComprehensIve Plan along Hanson Boulevard. They were
also concerned wIth any additional traffIc that close to the raIlroad
tracks.
The CommIssion asked If 143rd and Xeon Is properly placed. Mr. Haas
stated the distance meets the ordInance requirements. They also
suggested the possIbility of requIrIng the berm along the railroad
tracks. Mr. Haas didn/t know if that can be requIred. Mr.
Wlndschltl stated he Is wIllIng to do It; It depends on the positIon
of Burlington Northern.
There beIng no further comment, Chairperson Peek stated the sketch
plan will be presented to the Council on January 7, 1992.
.,
'- ~
" /
'\
, ,)
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
MInutes - December 10. 1991
Page 7
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Carlberg asked that those Commissioners whose terms expire on
December 31 and who wish to reapply do so by the next Council meetIng.
The reappointments will be made at that meetIng. The CIty wIll
advertise to fill any vacancy.
It was agreed to cancel the December 24, 1991, regular PlannIng and
Zoning Commission meetIng because of the holidays.
Chairperson Peek revIewed the actIons of the City CouncIl on December
3. 1991. on Items referred to them by the Planning Commission.
Mr. Carlberg also reported the CouncIl has determIned that the
Planning Commission Chairperson wIll no longer be required to attend
the CouncIl meetIngs unless there Is a major Issue. The Commission
suggested that In those cases, they could take turns attending those
meetIngs.
')
, j
The being no further busIness, Chairperson Peek declared the meeting
adjourned. 9:20 p.m.
RespectfUlly submItted.
'{\\~ ~~
'~~cella A. Peach
Recording Secretary
,/