HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK September 23, 2008
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1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
City Council Workshop
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Conference Rooms A & B
1. Call to Order - 6:00 p.m.
2. Discuss Outdoor Parties/Events
3. Review Pool Covers and Fencing
4. Review State Statute Law Changes to Chapters157 and 347
(Related to Outdoor Food and Beverage Service Establishments & Dangerous Dogs)
0 5. Assessment Policy Discussion
6. Discuss Status of Autistic Child Signs
7. 2009 Budget Development Progress Report
. Community Center Budget Presentation
8. 2009-2013 ClP Progress Report
9. Other Business
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ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 23,2008
MINUTES
The Andover City Council Workshop was called to order by Acting Mayor Ken Orttel, September
23,2008,6:04 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight and Mayor Mike Gamache (arrived at
6:13 p.m.)
Councilmember absent: Julie Trude
Also present: Director of Public Works/City Engineer, Dave Berkowitz
City Administrator, Jim Dickinson
Community Development Director, Will Neumeister
Others
0 DISCUSS OUTDOOR PARTIES/EVENTS
Mr. Dickinson stated in regard to residents' complaints regardirig outdoor concert events, the
Council indicated that they would like to discuss at a workshop the merits of approving outdoor
parties/events, in particular where the extension of a liquor license is requested.
Mr. Dickinson reviewed the information with the CounciL
Acting Mayor Orttel asked if anyone in the audience wanted to speak regarding this item.
Mr. Kevin McGinn, 13865 Bluebird Street, stated the first concert from Tanners was pretty
illtrusive into their neighborhood. He stated he was pretty concerned about the noise associated
with the concerts and in the code. He reviewed what the City Code stated. Mr. Dickinson
explained what the City Code means and how it is interpreted.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the problem to him is not the outdoor parties or the extension of
the liquor license to the outdoors; it is the perceived noise levels from a band. Mr. McGinn
thought if a bar was going to have outdoor liquor it should be partitioned off from the public.
Councilmember Jacobson stated they could refuse to allow outdoor liquor licensing or require the
bands to play inside with allowing liquor outdoors but they want to make sure they do not outlaw
some of the things they do want also.
0 Councilmember Jacobson thought they could look at something better that a band could emit out.
He thought they should concentrate on the noise levels. Mr. Dickinson stated those definitions
that are identified are set by the MPCA and they follow what they say. Councilmember Jacobson
wondered if they could be stricter than what the MPCA indicates. Mr. Dickinson stated they
could be but they want to be comparable to other cities.
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 2
Mayor Gamache arrived at 6:13 p.m.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if they could have the bands inside. Mr. Brad Povlitzki
indicated outside concerts are done in every community and the attraction is to bring the band
outside. People are cooped up inside all winter and want to be outside in the summer.
Councilmember Orttel wondered why the second concert at Tanners was quieter. Was it a
different type of band? Mr. Steve Smith, manager stated it was the same kirid of band that they
had the first time and everything was the same. He noted the tent was open towards Bunker Lake
Boulevard and the back of the band faced Target.
Mayor Gamache showed on the board how the tent was set up at Tanners.
Councilmember Knight thought it was the bass that was the factor and he did not know if they
could get a band without loud bass.
0 Mayor Gamache asked Mr. Povlitzki if they brought in a larger band for the outdoor concert
compared to ones they get for indoors. Mr. Povlitzki indicated the bands were the same and the
soundboards are turned off. He noted he drove to the end of his property and could not make out
the music. Mr. McGinn indicated he did not hear the band at Pov's this year.
Mr. Povlitzki stated he wanted to continue these outdoor parties next year.
Ms. Sherri Bukkila, 13537 Swallow Street, representing the Hidden Creek neighborhood, stated
she received comments from homeowners regardirig this and summarized what the neighbors
thought about the concerts. She noted that some of the people recommended the City make the
number of weekends limited for outdoor concerts so there are not concerts every weekend. Some
people disagree that it is a negative impact on the neighborhood. Some felt the concerts should
only be allowed once a year.
Mayor Gamache stated the main issue he has is, if they will have another bar in the area and the
outdoor concerts become more popular. He wondered how many events they should allow and
what the options are to control the number of events.
Councilmember Jacobson thought they should encourage these events in the City but should also
listen to residents who are bothered by it. He thought it comes down to the booming bass and he
thought if there was some way they could cut the bass down everyone would be happy.
Councilmember Knight thought if they face the speakers in the most neutral way would help.
0 Councilmember Orttel thought they should require a schematic for outdoor concerts so they can
see where the speakers will be located. Councilmember Jacobson thought Councilmember Orttel
had a point by requiring schematics and noise mitigation measures that would be required before
approved by the City. They could have someone from the Building Department come over to
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 3
make sure it is done correctly.
Mr. Dickinson asked for clarification on what the Council wanted done. Councilmember
Jacobson stated before the establishment comes before the Council with their approval request
for outdoor concerts and before they book a band the City needs to have a schematic of what the
tent will look like with the emphasis on sound mitigation. Councilmember Orttel stated they
should look at possibly having an amplified sound ordinance.
Mayor Gamache stated another concern of his is if Moose and-Company were to open and they
decided they wanted to have some concerts. He wondered if there is a need to have some kirid of
restriction for how many events the City is going to allow the establishments each year because it
could be every weekend if each bar wanted more than one a year.
Ms. Sheri Bukkila stated there was a lot of discussion about how the businesses and City benefit
from the outdoor concerts. She wondered if there is a way to charge a fee for holding an outdoor
concert and then put it towards the park fund so everyone would benefit. Councilmember Orttel
indicated fees can only be charged to recoup cost.
0 The Council discussed how many concerts they would want for a maximum a year or a month.
Mr. Povlitzki suggested they have a strict rule on enforcing these.
Mr. Dickinson reviewed what the staffwill focus on for next year.
Mr. McGinn indicated he has a petition from 286 homeowners wanting to eradicate these
concerts so he cautioned the owners of the bars to make sure things run smoothly next year.
The Council consensus is that this will be brought back to a future council meeting.
REVIEW POOL COVERS AND FENCING
Mr. Neumeister stated this was first discussed on August 6, 2008 as a result of a resident's request
for a pool cover to be allowed rather than fencing. At the following meeting on August 19th, the
Council directed staff to provide research on what other cities have for regulations related to pool
covers in lieu of fencing. What staffhas found is that very few cities allow pool covers in lieu of
fencing.
Mayor Gamache is wondering if there could be an ordinance requiring a fence in R -4 District with
the option of having a fence if they are on acreage. He would like to talk about this to see if this is
0 the way the Council would want to go. We need to make sure the pool covers are being used
properly too.
Mayor Gamache did not think they had anyone in the City go around inspecting to make sure
everything is in compliance for pools. Mr. Dickinson stated they only check if there have been
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 4
complaints or ifby site it looks like a problem.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the problem he has is a pool cover requires a human to open and
close it where a self-closing fence does not need assistance if properly installed and workirig. He
would like to see the use of fencing.
Mr. Torrey Kjelstad, 17241 Partridge Street NW, stated the pool cover could be left open but the
fence gate could also fail. He stated he is a responsible person and does not want to find anything in
their pooL They live on three acres with only six houses around him with eighty acres behind him.
He stated he knows of neighbors that have an above ground pool with a fence and kids jumped over
and into the pool. He stated he has eleven thousand dollars invested in the pool cover and ifhe had
to install a fence around the pool it would cost him another eleven thousand dollars.
Councilmember Orttel stated they have discussed how to keep kids out of drainage ponds and that is
another potential danger because they are not fenced either. Their main concern is to protect small
children. There is massive risk out there in the world that involves drownirig. He indicated what
they want is something to keep people out of the pools if not illvited. He thought this was the next
stage in pool safety.
Councilmember Orttel asked if it would be possible to have an alarm if the cover were to not be
closed in a certain amount of time. Councilmember Knight wondered if there was a fail-safe way to
make sure the pool cover is closed. Mr. Kjelstad stated at this time there is not.
Councilmember Jacobson would suggest they could look at something in the future when they would
get a warnirig device on them but until then he suggested they leave this the same.
Mr. Dickinson stated this was brought to the meeting because the permit was approved for a pool
and fence and the City did not know it was not in compliance until a complaint was filed.. He felt the
City needed to enforce the code requiring a fence around the pool.
Councilmember Orttel stated he thought the pool cover is a better safety device than a fence.
Mr. Kjelstad stated he keeps the pool cover closed for heating, cleanirig and safety. He felt it is safer
than a fence and they always keep a cover on the pool when not in use. He stated this is the way of
the future. Mayor Gamache agreed but did not feel at this point there was much the City Council do.
Councilmember Knight asked if they could explore the potential for alarms out there for pools. Mr.
Kjelstad stated he would research this and bring the information back to the Council.
0 Mr. Dickinson stated if the Council is going to review this further how far should staff go to enforce
the code. He noted Mr. Kjelstad does have a four-foot temporary fence up. Councilmember
Jacobson thought staff should enforce the code.
Mayor Gamache wondered what the ordinance for fencing a hot tub is. Mr. Dickinson indicated a
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 5
latchable cover or fence is required.
Councilmember Orttel wondered if an alarm would make a difference. Mayor Gamache stated at
this point they needed to enforce the code. Councilmember Knight, Mayor Gamache and
Councilmember Orttel thought it would be worth it to research to see if alarms were available for
pool covers. Councilmember Jacobson stated he would prefer to stick with the current code.
Mr. Dickinson noted that Councilmember Trude indicated to him that she would not be in favor of
only allowing a pool cover in lieu of a fence.
Mr. Kjelstad thought the code could be iriterpreted differently by everyone in regard to fencing
because the code is vague. He explained what type offence he installed and showed a photo. The
Council felt this was a temporary fence but would work until a final decision was made.
REVIEW STATE STATUTE LA W CHANGES TO CHAPTERS 157 AND 347 (RELATED TO
OUTDOOR FOOD AND BEVERAGE SERVICE ESTABUSHMENTS & DANGEROUS DOGS)
. Mr. Neumeister stated the City Attorney sent staffinformation which contains new language adopted
by the State of Minnesota from Chapters 157 and 347. He asked that the City Council review it as
two separate sections. The first section dealing with Chapter 157 relates to something that is not
mandatory that the City adopt, it references the City "may adopt" the new language that refers
specifically to outdoor food and beverage establishments and whether to allow dogs to accompany
persons patronizing the facility. If the Council chooses to implement it, then the entirety of the
suggested code language should be adopted.
The second part of the statute changes should be reviewed line by line as there are small changes
proposed throughout the Chapter 347 language. Notice for instance that the surety bond is
recommended to be changed from $50,000 to $300,000 for anyone who has a "dangerous dog".
Quite a few changes related to changing "may" to "shall" and there is a lot more language added on
"Disposition of Seized Animals" as well as who may own a dog.
Councilmember Jacobson reviewed how the State Statute got changed.
The Council preferred not to adopt Chapter 157. Councilmember Orttel felt Chapter 347 should be
changed to the new amount. Councilmember Jacobson suggested staff go through the City
Ordiriance and State Statute to see what the differences are.
0 ASSESSMENT POLICY DISCUSSION
Mr. Berkowitz stated the City Council is requested to review and discuss the attached proposed
assessment manual revision and direct staff on how to proceed with updating the assessment policy.
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 6
Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the information with the CounciL
Mr. Berkowitz explained staff did not have any changes on page 4 other than strikirig the word
presumably.
Mr. Berkowitz indicated on page 5, under Summary of Steps in Special Assessment Proceedirigs,
Number 1, Initiation of Proceedings, the Council should change the amount to 50% in order to
initiate a project.
Councilmember Orttel thought they went by the number of people involved instead of what the
policy shows. Mr. Berkowitz stated they usually do and should change the wording in the policy to
reflect that. Councilmember Orttel thought they should include "either/or" depending on the way the
project will be assessed. Councilmember Orttel thought they should include "whichever basis the
project will be assessed on" so it leaves it open.
Mr. Berkowitz noted on page 6 there were no proposed changes. On page 7, under Purpose, IT, this
was to clean up the sentence because it was a run on sentence and did not read well.
Councilmember Jacobson thought the paragraph should include: "The Council may extend this date
ifit feels the project can be accomplished within the year." Mr. Berkowitz stated that was the reason
for the language change.
Mr. Berkowitz explained on page 8 - Policies Relating to Special Assessments, they want to include
examples at the end of the paragraph and they want to put in a disclaimer.
Mr. Berkowitz stated under Assessment Period, this goes back to the reconstruction of the roadway
process. The assessment period used to be eight years, went to five years at one time but the
assessment period always stayed at ten. He would like to be consistent with eight being the
maximum time.
Mr. Berkowitz thought they should change the sentence after the time period to read: "Assessments
for improvements not included as a part of a new development shall be assessed for up to an eight (8)
year period."
Councilmember Jacobson asked on page 9, under item 2 Properties Not Assessed, what is considered
a dry pond. Mr. Berkowitz explained what a dry pond is. Councilmember Orttel thought item 2
needed to be cleaned up because it only pertains to area assessments.
Councilmember Jacobson wondered why on page 10, Unit Lot, why they needed all the language
0 when it could read "A lot or parcel is a residential area that can no longer be subdivided". Mr.
Berkowitz explained why the policy was worded this way. Councilmember Orttel agreed with
Councilmember Jacobson and thought it could refer to the planning guide.
Mr. Berkowitz noted on page 10, Front Footage, would be assessed only on the side that the property
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 7
is addressed.
Mr. Berkowitz stated in regard to area traffic assessments; this goes back to their lengthy discussions
regarding the possibility of what will happen in the rural reserve area. He stated they have the
potential in the future to develop and they will have two thousand more units ill the city which is a
huge impact to the transportation system. He thought that is the time to capitalize on the roadway
system. He stated the development area will drive large transportation and traffic improvements that
will be needed as the area develops. He wondered if they wanted to put that burdon on the State Aid
System or do they want to consider at least recouping if not all of it at least a portion of it back
through the entire development. He proposed putting Item D "area Traffic Assessment" in which
gives them a way to look at this and fmd out what they want done.
The Council discussed with staff how they can charge area assessments.
Mr. Berkowitz explained on page 10, Construction Interest, this was reviewed with City Finance
Department for changes.
Mr. Berkowitz stated on page 11, Expenses to be Assessed, Appendix A will be attached for
reference.
Councilmember Orttel wondered if it would be reasonable to refer to the index for the charge that
they spent so much time establishing. He wondered if they had a right to charge an overhead. Mr.
Dickinson stated they adopted those numbers in their fee ordiriance and then they have one for
developer installed. Councilmember Orttel asked if the City Attorney disagreed with including
"expenses to be assessed are City overhead expenses". Mr. Berkowitz stated expenses are the term
that refers to their overhead but he could review this with the City Attorney.
DISCUSS STATUS OF AUTISTIC CIDLD SIGNS
Mr. Berkowitz stated the City Council is requested to review "Autistic Child" sign program and
discuss making this process permanent.
Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the information with the CounciL
Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Orttel, to continue the Autistic Child sign program.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if twelve signs were enough in the City. Mr. Berkowitz stated they
have installed ten signs because two families did not want to participate in this. He stated if they get
0 too many requests for signs they may need to put a maximum on the number of signs annually.
Mayor Gamache thought this should be approved formally at a City Council meeting so the motion
was not voted on.
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 8
2009 BUDGET DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT
Mr. Dickinson stated the Council has had a number of reviews of the 2009 Proposed Budget that will
be supported by the 2009 Tax Levy.
Mr. Dickirison reviewed the information with the Council.
Councilmember Jacobson stated on page 3, it talks about the $50,000 budget shortfall and what
happens ifit is not taken care of by the end of the year. Mr. Dickinson indicated it will be taken care
of. He explained the reason why he felt this item will not be an issue. He stated it will be balanced
by the time it is presented to the Council at their meeting in December. He noted he is encouraging
all of the department heads to stay within their budget.
Mayor Gamache stated on page 5, insurance was discussed and indicated it was not favorable. He
wondered where that was at. Mr. Dickinson reviewed the insurance proposal with the CounciL
Councilmember Jacobson stated on page 7, Central Center for Family Resources, he wondered what
this was. Mr. Dickinson explained to the Council what they provide for services for the City.
Mr. Dickinson stated on page 9 he indicated they did not need to hold a Truth in Taxation Hearing
and the number only gave them the variance not to hold the public hearing only if they took
advantage of special levy' s and they did not do that. The Council felt they needed to hold a Truth in
Taxation Hearing whether it was needed or not.
. Community Center Budget Presentation
Mr. Erik Sutherland, Community Center Supervisor, stated they worked out the budget with Mr.
Brezinka, Mr. Dickinson and two meetings with the Advisory Commission. Their biggest fight
continues to be the utility costs.
Mr. Sutherland reviewed the budget and scheduling of the facility with the Council.
Mr. Dickinson reviewed with the Council the Community Center budget.
Mr. Sutherland also requested shuflling around current staff and dedicate a person to programming
and advertising sales in order to increase the revenue and use in the off-peak times. They would
need to add a benefit package for a full time person and the wages are already budgeted for.
0 Councilmember Orttel stated they have fifteen advertisers and he wondered how much revenue they
bring in with those. Mr. Dickinson stated it was around $30,000. Councilmember Orttel stated that
hiring this person full time was not worth it and would be a bad deal.
Councilmember Jacobson asked how much more they would need in order to do this. Mr.
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 9
Sutherland thought it would affect the Community Center around $8,000 to $15,000. Mr. Dickinson
explained the different jobs this person would be doing during the year along with trying to get
revenue for the Community Center through advertising and scheduled programs. He noted they have
costs which they can spread to Sunshine Park and Andover Station North.
Councilmember Orttel wondered if they had hired someone to schedule the Community Center time
a year or so ago. Mr. Dickinson stated they used existing staff for this. He noted that there is a lot
they do at the Community Center that a fee is not charged for.
Councilmember Knight did not know what they are going to do with the free service to the
community and there are costs irivolved with that. Mr. Sutherland stated hundreds of hours are being
used. Mr. Dickirison stated most of the hours are used for non-profit organizations.
Mayor Gamache asked what the opportunities are to sell off-peak hours. Mr. Sutherland stated it
would be in house programming.
Mayor Gamache stated it shows by the budget that this year they budgeted $17,500 for advertising
and expecting that to drop to $10,000. He asked if the $17,500 fulfilled all their advertising space.
Mr. Sutherland indicated it did not.
Councilmember Knight stated there is a wall that is almost empty that they expected to fill with
advertising. Councilmember Orttel did not think the proposed person would make enough in
advertising sales to cover the expenses.
Councilmember Jacobson asked how difficult would it be to remove a city employee if after a year
things did not work out as planned. Mr. Dickinson indicated it would be hard to do. Mr. Sutherland
stated they need help in other areas that are not being covered right now and that person could be
moved to those areas.
Councilmember Jacobson asked why they do not hire another person part time to fill the position
needed. Mr. Dickinson stated it would be hard to fit the person to the position. Councilmember
Orttel stated it would save the City a benefit package.
Councilmember Orttel still questioned if they needed someone. He did not know if they could sell
that much space to pay for the salary and benefit and still bring in revenue. He thought it was a
losirig proposition.
Mayor Gamache stated the new person would create the new programs but they would need to bring
in people to run them. Mr. Sutherland stated they would have budgets allocated to each program.
0 He stated his hope is to produce something like a community education brochure, full of options.
Mr. Dickinson stated the budget is coming back in October. He thought Mr. Sutherland could fine
tune the position, the costs associated with bringing the person onboard full time aIid at that time
they could discuss this further and make a decision.
0 Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - September 23, 2008
Page 10
2009-2013 CIP PROGRESS REPORT
Mr. Dickinson stated in early April, AdministrationlFinance started the 2009-2013 Capital
Improvement Plan (CIP) process with a kick-off meeting the department heads. Since that date
various committees (Vehicles Purchasing & Facility Management Committees) and commissions
(parks & Community Center) have worked diligently to complete their work on the proposed 2009-
2013 ClP.
Mr. Dickinson reviewed the information with the Council.
The Council discussed the use of the Council Chambers by outside non-profit organizations and
what they need to do to maintain the furniture and floor coverings.
Mr. Dickinson indicated their open policy is costing them money.
Councilmember Jacobson suggested staff look at a possible fee schedule item addressing this and
bring it back for review.
Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the trail machine/snow removal equipment with the Council.
Mr. Dickinson showed a map to the Council where the park playscape upgrades are planned to be.
Councilmember Orttel wondered if they needed to maintain all of the play areas in the park. Mr.
Dickinson stated in the future they will need to figure out if it is feasible to maintain all the parks
currently maintained.
OTHER BUSINESS
There was none.
Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting
adjourned at 9: 15 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary