HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 12, 2008
~.cv
.::)
, vuitul 3' .-II-OZ
\/ .
0
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - FEBRUARY 12, 2008
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on February 12,2008, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover
City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present: Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tim Kirchoff,
Michael Casey, Valerie Holthus, Devon Walton, Douglas
Falk and Dennis Cleveland.
Commissioners absent: There were none.
Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Associate Planner, Andy Cross
Others
0
APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
January 22, 2008
Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Walton, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER ULTIMATE FIGHTING OlIDINANCE.
Mr. Bednarz stated Captain Tom Wells, Sheriff's Department presented information to
the City Council on January 22, 2008 and they authorized it to be discussed at a public
hearing before the Planning Commission. This has been raised by the Sheriff's
Department as a concern because occurrences of "ultimate fighting" have been increasing
in the area
Captain Wells reviewed the Ultimate Fighting Ordinance with the Commission.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked what ultimate fighting versus school yard fighting was.
Captain Wells indicated what they were looking at was more planned events, not
0 necessary two kids mad at each other. These are planned events and kids gather to watch
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 2
0 them and video tape them and place them on the internet. He stated there could also be a
prize in it for the winner. He stated it is the organization of it that they are looking at.
Commissioner Walton asked if the ultimate fights at establishments would also be
regulated or stopped. Captain Wells stated that is not addressed in this ordinance. This
ordinance is for events that are not held in a facility like that. He stated the City has the
means to deny a permit for an establishment.
Chairperson Daninger asked what the difference was between this and a disorderly
conduct. He asked if the intent of the ordinance is also to say "present, participate, host"
gives it a little more teeth to go after the people who organize it so they realize they are as
much at fault. Captain Wells indicated that was correct.
Motion by Casey, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 7:10 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 7:10 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Commissioner Walton wondered if this was too broad or does it cover an event that is
officially sanctioned. Mr. Bednarz stated the City has adopted an ordinance prohibiting
0 ultimate fighting at commercial establishments previously. This would be other areas of
town.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Falk, to recommend to the City Council approval of the
Ultimate Fighting Ordinance as written.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated he supported this but wanted to make sure they do not
distinguish incidental school yard fighting.
Chairperson Daninger stated he would like to have an update on this in a year to see how
it is going.
Motion carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the February 19,2008
City Council meeting.
0
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 3
0
PUBLIC HEARING: PERMITTED, CONDITIONAL AND PROHIBITED USES
(CHAPTER 12-12) TO ADD CHURCHES AS A CONDITIONAL USE IN THE
SHOPPING CENTER ZONING DISTRICT.
Mr. Bednarz stated the Coon Rapids United Methodist Church has requested that they be
allowed to locate a church in the Hanson Commons II Shopping Center. Currently the
City Code allows churches as a conditional use in each of the residential zoning districts
and the Limited Business Zoning District. The proposed site is zoned Shopping Center
(SC). An amendment to the City Code would be necessary to allow the proposal to move
forward.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked what types of businesses cannot be located near a church
in Andover. Mr. Bednarz stated typically any establishment that serves alcohol is to be
located at least one thousand feet from churches and schools. Note: Staff subsequently
identified that the distance is 400 feet for churches (see report).
Commissioner Kirchoff thought by allowing a church to be located at a shopping area, it
precludes there be a liquor establishment there. Mr. Bednarz stated if there is already an
establishment operating in the building or vicinity it would not affect their license or
approval that preceded it.
0 Commissioner Kirchoff asked what if a shopping center was still developing and looking
for tenants and one would like to come in that serves or sells liquors, would they have a
problem. Mr. Bednarz stated that would need to be addressed by the City.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if a church is renting a property, does the owner still pay
property tax or does it become exempt property in the commercial district. Mr. Bednarz
stated it was his understanding the owner of the center would continue to pay taxes as a
commercial entity.
Commissioner Kirchoff thought if there is a way to word the code or CUP approval so
the owner could have both a church and an establishment that serves alcohol. He did not
think this change should be an impediment to development.
Mr. Bednarz stated the owner needs to allow a church to lease the space and is making a
decision at that point.
Motion by Casey, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 7:20 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Mr. Bill Reinhart, 1478 154th Avenue N.W., stated they would be in favor of doing
anything .possible to accommodate liquor licenses and would not be an issue to them as a
0 church.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 4
0 Motion by Walton, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7 :24 p.m.
Commissioner Holthus asked if staff had the letters of support for this item and wondered
if the Commission wanted to review them before making a motion. Mr. Bednarz stated
he did have the letters. Chairperson Daninger did not think review of the letters was
necessary. Mr. Bednarz stated they received nineteen letters of support from Andover
residents, seven tenants within Hanson Commons I & II in support and forty-seven letters
from people who do not live in the community and presumably members of the church.
Motion carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the amendment would include anything like an asterisk
that states "requires a waiver of any inconsistencies with one thousand foot distance."
Mr. Bednarz stated the proposed code amendment does not contain any of that language.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if it could and wondered if he could offer the added
language as a part of the motion.
Commissioner Falk wondered if it would be in the CUP. Commissioner Kirchoff thought
that may be a better place to put it.
Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Walton, to recommend to the City Council approval of
0 the Permitted, Conditional and Prohibited Uses (Chapter 12-12) to add churches as a
conditional use in the Shopping Center Zoning District as presented. Motion carried on a
. 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the February 19,2008
City Council meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT (08-01) TO ALLOW COON
RAPIDS UNITED METHODIST CHURCH TO BE LOCATED IN THE HANSON
COMMONS II SHOPPING CENTER LOCATED AT 1574 154TH AVENUE NW.
Mr. Bednarz stated the Coon Rapids United Methodist Church has requested that they be
allowed to locate a church in the Hanson Commons II Shopping Center. A proposed City
Code amendment would allow this as a conditional use in the Shopping Center (SC)
Zoning District.
Mr. Bednarz discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Commissioner Cleveland stated staff indicated there are no technical issues with this. He
wondered if that meant items like fire codes and entrances and exits and requisite floor
space for the number of people. Mr. Bednarz stated the church will need to submit a
0 building permit application for modifications to the interior.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 5
0 Commissioner Walton asked if there were any "no parking" signs on the streets in that
area for the neighbors. Mr. Bednarz stated presently there are not. He stated this is
something that could be considered in the future.
Commissioner Falk stated his only problem is for emergency vehicles and if the parking
lot is full and there was an emergency, how would the City feel about a fire truck going
through there with only one exit and if they should put another exit in the parking lot.
Mr. Bednarz stated the only other potential exit they would have would be directly onto
Hanson unless they took down a portion of the fence and berm and came out behind the
building. The Fire Chiefdid review the site when it was developed and they have a loop
road around the building and also in the parking area in front of the building.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearing at 7:39 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Mr. Bill Reinhart stated he did not have a formal presentation but was at the meeting to
answer questions.
Chairperson Daninger asked why they would not consider using a school for their
services. Mr. Reinhart stated schools have been used by churches. They have
approached the principal of the high school and he is not interested right now in having a
0 church operate in his space because of the extra scheduling constraints they have with
their public space in their high school. This would leave them with Rum River
Elementary. They were thinking it was likely they will be in that space in the future.
Mr. Reinhart stated the trouble is that the schools offer them the space for three or four
hours on one day and what they are really looking for is a stepping stone where they can
be in the community, meeting the community and serving the community and that four
hours is not integrated into the community like this site. That is the main reason.
Mr. Reinhart stated the costs to rent an area in the school is quite high and as a group that
does not exclusively serve children they pay the second highest rate in their tier rates. It
would be approximately twice the costs to be in the leased space but they would get the
space 24/7.
Chairperson Daninger asked on a religious holiday will they have enough space. Mr.
Reinhart stated currently in Coon Rapids they have an average worship attendance of five
hundred and they are not looking to relocate that congregation to Andover. They are
proposing to build a new community. They do not anticipate to beginning public worship
until August with a formal grand opening in October. In the meantime they will be dong
community building practices with after school programs, inviting some of the
community groups to come and have meetings in their space and meet people in certain
communities. They anticipate the maximum they will be able to accommodate
0 meaningfully in a workshop would be 140.
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 6
0 Chairperson Daninger stated one of the main concerns is parking in the shopping center.
He did not see this as an issue but would need to be reviewed.
Chairperson Daninger wondered if there will be an organ in the space. Mr. Reinhart
indicated they would not. Chairperson Daninger asked if they will have bands. Mr.
Reinhart stated they will have some modern equipment such as a drum kit, electric guitar,
and electric piano. There will be some level of noise and they will have signing groups.
Chairperson Daninger stated the only concern is the noise for the adjoining tenants. Mr.
Reinhart stated he has met with all of the tenants and did not think that would be a
concern for them.
Mr. Reinhart indicated they are very eager to keep open lines of communication between
them and other tenants of the building.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if they had a problem with waiving the local liquor
ordinance regarding distance. Mr. Rinehart stated they did not and would provide any
kind of waiver or accommodation for any business that would reasonably within City
Code approval belong there.
Commissioner Holthus wondered what their long term plans were for the church. Mr.
0 Rinehart stated they would be looking in the future to eventually grow and move to a
larger temporary space such as a public school and eventually looking to build.
Commissioner Walton asked if the services in Andover intend to compliment at the same
time as the congregation in Coon Rapids or are they supplementing those meeting times
in case someone misses the one in Coon Rapids they could come to one in Andover,
which would drive up the number of attendance. Mr. Rinehart stated they have
approximately twenty-five percent of their first time visitors are coming now from
Andover down to Coon Rapids via the Hanson Corridor. There are a certain percentage
of their congregants that do live in Andover that might begin to worship in Andover
rather than Coon Rapids but their goal is to be reaching people who otherwise would not
drive down to Coon Rapids. They are looking to reach out to people who do not have a
church family yet but might appreciate the United Methodist tradition that they have to
offer.
Commissioner Walton asked what the planned orientation of the interior of the building
will be. He asked if the drum kit will be up against the Veterinarian wall or will it be on
the other end of the building. Mr. Rinehart stated the wall that will be adjacent to the
Veterinarian hospital will be where the three classroom spaces will be located at. The
actual stage will be on an exterior wall. He noted they have a blended style of worship
and will have a variety of music.
0 Chairperson Daninger asked if they had any intent to worship on Saturday night. Mr.
Rinehart stated they have talked about that as a possibility. In surveying the local
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 7
0 businesses, they have noted that there are two time slots primarily where there is a little
activity in terms of the businesses that are open. One is Sunday morning between 8:00
a.m. and 11 :00 a.m. and the other is Saturday evening after 5 :00 p.m. or 6:00 p.m. so they
did identify that as a possibility but they have not thought that through because it is a
secondary use. Their primary intent is for Sunday morning.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at7:52 p.m.
Motion carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Commissioner Walton wondered if there was a reason to put in a crosswalk across 154th.
Mr. Bednarz stated there is a crosswalk from the middle school at the signal but there is
not a painted crosswalk between Hanson Commons I & II.
Commissioner Walton suggested they think about putting up no parking signs in the
neighborhood. Mr. Bednarz stated when they looked at this at the staff level they did not
want to take anything away from the neighborhood because the church is going in. They
think that the conditions that are in the approval will allow them to look at that if it
becomes an issue.
Chairperson Daninger asked if anyone had a concern with Saturday night worship. He
stated he did not see anything in the resolution. He stated he would be comfortable
0 making it known that when they review this that if the applicant wanted to have a
Saturday night service they would need to come back for approval. Mr. Bednarz stated
their understanding through communications is anything other than Sunday Service
would be a small class size, like on a weekday evening.
Mr. Rinehart stated the majority of the businesses are not open past 5:00 p.m. or 6:00
p.m. He stated they have charted out almost all of the businesses hours. He stated there
is a lot of turn around traffic for Subway and he has never seen the parking lot full. He
stated their intent in using the parking spaces other than Sunday morning would be for
smaller gatherings, however, if they would like to do a service on Saturday night, that
would entail a larger number conceivably. He stated they would never plan an event that
would lead to a parking conflict. If they pursue that, they would follow the same course
that they have to date.
Commissioner Holthus wondered if they planned on displaying any type of cross or
signage. Mr. Rinehart stated their understanding from the landlord is there are some
signage requirements regarding the storefront property and they would comply with what
the signage guidelines are. They do have a cross and flame logo they would intend to be
a part of that signage and his understanding was that providing it fit within that
dimensional requirements the City has and any other requirements it should not be an
Issue.
0
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 12, 2008
Page 8
0 Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to recommend approval of the conditional use
permit subject to the conditions in the attached resolution. Motion carried on a 7-ayes, 0-
nays, O-present, O-absent vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the February 19,2008
City Council meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING: ANTENNA AND TOWER CODE (CHAPTER 9-12)
Mr. Cross explained as telecommunication towers become more prevalent and their
technology improves, the City Code needs to be updated to facilitate their review. The
current Towers and Antennas ordinance is based on a League of Minnesota Cities model
from the late 1990's. An update was done in 2000, but more improvements are needed.
Mr. Cross reviewed the current City Code section with the Commission.
Commissioner Falk asked with a pole that can accommodate three more antennas, does
the building have to be built that way also. Mr. Cross indicated the Code does not
address that directly. Chairperson Daninger stated the building is typically large enough
to handle all the co-location because they share the costs then.
Chairperson Daninger asked if an antenna does not have anyone co-locating and is not
being used anymore what happens. Commissioner Kirchoff thought they had ninety days
to deconstruct the antenna Mr. Cross stated one of the final sections of the Code is titled
"Abandoned Towers and Antennas" and it has pretty explicit language about what they
do and it gives the City some grounds to move forward on abandoned antennas to get rid
of those should that situation arise.
Commissioner Falk asked how the City would know. it was abandoned. Mr. Cross stated
there is nothing in the Code that requires them to be specifically notified but it is
something they could work with cell phone companies on. He stated the property where
the antenna sits will be receiving lease money and if the lease money is no longer coming
in the property owner typically asks that the antenna be removed.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearing at 8:07 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
There was no public input.
Motion by Falk, seconded by Walton, to close the public hearing at 8:07 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
Motion by Falk, seconded by Walton, to approve the code changes as presented. Motion
carried on a 7 -ayes, O-nays, O-present, O-absent vote.