HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 3, 1995
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CITY of ANDOVER
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION - AUGUST 3, 1995
MINUTES
The Regular ai-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Park and ~ecreation
Commission was called to order by Chairperson Tom Anderson on August 3,
1995, 7:35 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW,
Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Dave Erickson, Al Grabowski, Dave O'Toole,
Roger Paulson
Jeff Kieffer, Jim Lindahl
Parks Supervisor, Kevin Starr
Park Coordinator, Todd Haas
Others
Commissioners absent:
Also present:
APPRECIATION OF DONATION/ANDOVER LIONS
On behalf of the Park and Recreation Department, Chairperson Anderson
presented a certificate of appreciation to representatives of the
Andover Lions Club for their generous donation to the Parks Department
this year.
Also, on behalf of the Andover Recreation and Development Association,
Gary Shay, Vice President of the Association, presented a plaque of
appreciation to representatives of the Andover Lions Club for their
generous donation over the last few weeks and months to thJ Field of
Dreams project.
Mr. Shay also presented an award to Mark Drager, Andover Athletic
Association, for the generous donations and contributions of money,
resources and manpower of the Athletic Association for the Field of
Dreams project.
APPROVE QUOTES/WOODLAND MEADOWS PARK
Chairperson Anderson reviewed what took place at the July 20 meeting
with regard to this project. The Commission authorized up to $18,000 of
park dedication funds for equipment and installation for the park. Mr.
Starr looked at the design and layout for equipment and has presented a
plan and a bid from another vendor to be considered tonight. The
meeting was then opened to resident input.
Jerrv Sobieck. 2159 172nd Avenue - stated his wife was supposed to be a
member of the committee to work on Plans 1, 2 and 3 so the residents
could vote. They met once, and then she went on vacation. The next
thing they know, a plan has been presented and the neighbors didn't know
anything about it. His wife contacted someone about a nature~park, who
stated there must be a sponsor other than the City. A group of
residents could sponsor it to maintain it. When he called City Hall to
see if the item was on the last agenda, he was told it was not. That is
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 2
(Approve Quotes/Woodland Meadows Park, Continued)
why no one was at the last meeting. He didn't believe the park problems
have been addressed. He was told the 10-foot setbacks from the property
lines would be adhered to, yet a plan he saw puts things right up to his
property line. It also shows all natural grass in the front, so his lot
will then become the parking lot for those riding bikes. He felt the
issue should be resubmitted to the entire development for a vote. The
issue of safety has not been addressed with the vehicles traveling a
minimum of 50 mph around the curve. If that is allowed to continue,
some child will get hurt.
Mr. Haas explained the Andover Review Committee has looked at the
situation. He did a plan to install warning signs and reduced speed
limit signs around that corner. He thought the speed limit will be 25
to 35 mph around the curve. The residents argued they are not
enforceable. Mr. Haas stated they are enforceable. Also, the Committee
has suggested "No parking" signs around the park and suggested the
neighbors tell the City where those signs should be placed.
Mr. Sobieck - again stated this is a park on a curve where the speed
limit isn't controlled with no off street parking for cars or bikes.
The City doesn't do a good job of maintaining the facilities it has, so
how can it afford to put money into another park. He asked the
,r '\ Commission to consider the worst case scenario when making their
~ decision. Mr. Haas stated that is what is being done. Safety is first
and foremost.
Kevin Squier, 2138 172nd Avenue - was concerned with the 55 mph speed
limit. He stated the 25 or 35 mph advisory speed doesn't mean anything.
Mr. Haas again stated that is not true, that the speed limit is
enforceable by the Deputies.
Mr. Squier - explained at the speeds being traveled through there, the
reaction time is limited and further reduced by other factors. He feared
some child will be hit by a car. Also, at the June 15 meeting he left
thinking three plans were going to be submitted and the residents would
vote on the type of park they wanted. No one carne to his house to ask
his opinion. Now neighbors have said they have $18,000 to spend for the
park and people are out there measuring. Also, they left that meeting
thinking all of them were going to be notified of the next meeting. He
was not notified. He called the office and was told they were not on
the Park Board agenda. Also, he didn't think the neighbors had the
expertise to determine where the "No parking" signs should be placed.
He didn't want parking on his side, but not on the other side either.
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Discussion with the residents in general was on providing a parking lot
and again on the speed limit through there. Mr. Haas again emphasized
the advisory plates are enforceable for the posted speed. The
Commission noted they did discuss installing one or two parking stalls.
It was also suggested that the Commission determine where the "No
Parking" signs should be located. Most favored parking on only one side
of the street. The Commission also thought that the plan presented by
Ms. Isaacson at the last meeting was the one agreed upon by the
committee. Also, they are listening to the residents.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 3
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(Approve Quotes/Woodland Meadows Park, Continued)
Don Leverson, 17240 Partridqe Street - stated his wife was appointed to
the committee. They met once. He understood Linda Isaacson was going
to have the plan drawn up. Lori Sobieck was going to handle the nature
portion of it, though she was going on vacation. His wife tried to find
a middle ground of half park and half nature park. Some where along the
line, Ms. Sobieck and his wife were left out and have been
misrepresented and Ms. Isaacson appointed herself the spokesperson of
the committee. He also thought there were going to be three plans
presented to the residents for them to choose. Some where along the
line the other two plans were trashed and Ms. Isaacson's plan was chosen
with the two other people not involved. Chairperson Anderson stated the
Commission was under the impression that the plan was a consensus of the
committee. He thought the map in their packets was the vote.
Annette Ward, 2070 172nd Avenue NW - stated unfortunately no one from
the committee is present this evening, but she has been in constant
contact with Ms. Isaacson. She went into considerable detail as she
knew it as to who attended the meetings and what was done each time. To
reach a consensus on a park plan, the basketball court was d+opped and
it was agreed to go with playground equipment in the front and a nature
area in the back, It was also agreed that Ms. Sobieck would contact a
nature person and Ms. Isaacson volunteered to contact a vendor. Ms.
Isaacson met the vender at the park and a plan was drafted for the
playground equipment. She understood that Ms. Sobieck was unable to
contact the nature center and then went on vacation. Ms. Isaacson then
presented the proposal to the Park Commission and left with the
impression that City Staff was going to get another bid proposal. That
proposal is before the Commission this evening. The map given to the
Commission was based on the original petition prior to the first meeting
on this issue and was to show that a majority of the residents were in
favor of a playground. It is also her understanding that the plans were
based on a natural appearance of the equipment and the safety issues.
They didn't notify everyone because it was felt a consensus was reached
at that meeting.
Debra Squier - noted the letter sent to all of the Commissioners. She
contended there was no consensus at the committee meeting, yet here is
the plan. They are still going to do the nature park. She asked how
many are coming out to look at the park before voting on this issue.
The majority of the Commissioners indicated they had already been there.
Ms. Squier - felt it is important that they walk the lot and Ibok at the
safety concerns. They are worried about cars speeding past there. They
want no parking on the road at all and maybe parking inside of the park
and possibly a fence.
Mr. Sobieck - felt all of the residents should be able to see the plans
for the park. He also thought they would vote no because there is no
parking for cars or bikes plus the 55 mph through there. Also, without
parking, the children will use his lot to park their bikes if there is
natural grass in front.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 4
(Approve Quotes/Woodland Meadows Park, Continued)
Chuck LaBeaux, 2233 173rd Circle NW - stated 41 people petitioned for a
park and want one there. It is a designated City park and it should be
developed as one, not left undeveloped for special interest groups.
There is concern for speed, including himself; but what prevents those
children playing hockey or basketball in the driveways from getting hit?
He felt they would be safer in the park because it is off the road than
they are in the driveways. He does have a problem with having to set up
a corporation to sponsor a nature park and maintain it. What happens if
those originally involved with the nature park move? A nature area is
very high maintenance and he personally didn't think it is a feasible
alternative for this piece of land. He saw it as a way of avoiding the
development of a park. He thought the assumption that there would be a
lot of cars parked around the park is incorrect. It was his opinion
there would be a very limited number of people using the park, and not
very many will drive to get there. Most people in the neighborhood will
either walk or bike, so he didn't see parking as an issue. They have
dealt with the speed limit issue, so just install the park. He didn't
understand why children would place their bikes in Sobieck's yard rather
than in the front of the park.
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Mr. Sobieck - stated the original plan said the development would be 10
feet from his lot line with natural grass in the front, which makes it
difficult to park bikes. Andover has already installed some shrubbery in
parks, and he would expect the same protection to his property.
Mr. LaBeaux - stated he was one of the first to build in there. This is
not a unique situation. He stated the Commission has bent over backwards
to hear the residents in the neighborhood, but he felt it is time to
make a decision and get the park developed.
The discussion continued with residents in the audience who opposed the
park development and who restated many of the same arguments already
expressed this evening. The Commission again noted it is a designated
City park and felt it'should be developed. They also felt that there
should be no parking along one side of the road, that the advisory speed
signs should be installed, that the plan is to place for play equipment
in the front and with consideration of a nature area in the back, and
that Staff should look at the cost of installing a driveway parking area
for two to three cars. Mr. Haas felt a two-stall parking area could be
installed without disturbing the placement of the playground equipment.
It could possibly be expanded to four stalls in the future.
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Commissioner Grabowski felt it is probably more dangerous now with cars
parking allover and children playing in the driveways than it will be
around the park. At the last meeting, Ms. Isaacson did bring up a lot
of points in defense of those wanting the nature area. Also, residents
are not allowed to mow on any City property because of insurance
regulations; however, the Adopt-A-Park program is in place to help keep
the park clean. The Commission is aware of both sides of the issues.
He agreed with the plan being proposed by Mr. Starr. ~
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 5
(Approve Quotes/Woodland Meadows Park, Continued)
Mr. Starr discouraged the residents from the off-street parking because
it can then become a hangout for some of the older youth. He felt it
will be a very nice park with very little disturbance to the area, and
it will be used mostly by their neighbors. It will be mowed; natural
unmowed grass cannot be left in the front. Some of the trees will be
trimmed, though the intent is to leave an undisturbed area along the
sides as a buffer for the neighbors. The equipment is designed for the
5 to 12 year olds with cedar in the front. A second phase could be
added for a tot lot, probably to the west. It will be ADA accessible
with a hard-surfaced access. Fences have not been put around parks,
though a split rail fence would look nice along the front of this. The
land will have to be brought up about two feet, then seeded. He
proposed having bluebird houses in the back, park benches, etc. The
total bid from Minnesota Wisconsin Playground, Inc., is $14,384.52 for
equipment, plus $3,218 for installation.
Mr. Sobieck - felt the biggest problem in this entire issue has been
miscommunication on everything.
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MOTION by Erickson, Seconded by Grabowski, that we go ahead with the
proposal from Minnesota Wisconsin Playground, Inc., in the amount of
$14,384.52 and the installation of $3,218; and along with that provide
for two parking stalls off street. Install the speed signs as Mr. Haas
is recommending; then provide for "No Parking" on both sides of the
street. Motion carried on a 5-Yes, 2-Absent (Kieffer, Lindahl) vote.
The Commission noted the discussions have been to develop a nature park
in the back. They wanted to minimize the loss of any trees, and noted
the difficulty of putting something in the back for safety and security
reasons. For now, $18,000 for development of one park is a lot. A main
focus for the budget is to complete the Field of Dreams complex across
the street.
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(Commissioner Erickson left the meeting at this time, 9:00 p.m.)
PARK AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT DISCUSSION
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Mark Drager, Andover Athletic Association, explained the Association
provides sports programs for the youth of the community on a voluntary
basis, and they depend on the City for help. It is getting to the point
where someone is needed on the City Staff to dedicate more time to help
these programs succeed. This person would coordinate the various
programs. He has talked with the City Administrator about the issue,
and he suggested coming to the Commission first. Mr. Drager stated he
has volunteered almost 1,000 hours this year. with the new fields,
there will be people asking for adult leagues, and someone is needed on
Staff to coordinate that. The primary focus, of course, would be the
youth programs. The athletic associations would still be in place, but
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 6
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(Park and Recreation Department, Continued)
help is needed from the City to keep them going. It is a combined
effort. He has called other communities to find out how they run those
programs. Some are done through community education, some through Park
and Recreation Departments and some through athletic associations. But
all of them had someone in the City that works closely with the athletic
associations. There is a good core of volunteers in the athletic
associations, but someone is needed for more help from the City. Some
of the monies going to community education could be funneled to this
position. In other cities, the position is self-sufficient through
various fees.
Commissioner Paulson felt that with the increase in population, Andover
has outgrown volunteerism. It is time for a Park Coordinator, and he
thought it should be presented in the budget for 1996. The Commission
generally agreed. They noted this position is needed to help with the
scheduling of the fields, work with adult leagues, handle users fees,
plan other programs for park activities, coordinate the concessions
stand, work with budget activities and grant applications, etc. It was
also argued that a full-time position is needed now. The tommission
suggested the issue be raised with the Council at their August 7 budget
meeting as well as provide a written job description of the position.
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ORDINANCE 10/PARK DEDICATION FEES DISCUSSION
The Commission noted that there appears to be a disparity between park
dedication fees of $400 collected for a lot split and up to 10 percent
of the property value collected for plats. The Commission agreed to
delete the last paragraph of 9.07.10 relating to subdivisions by metes
and bounds and to rewrite it with park dedication fees being subject to
the same as platted property. The park dedication would apply to all
property involved in the metes and bounds subdivision.
MOTION by Paulson, Seconded by O'Toole, to eliminate that paragraph.
Motion carried on a 4-Yes, 3-Absent (Erickson, Kieffer, Lindahl) vote.
APPROVE FENCING PLAN/IP93-7/CITY HALL PARK COMPLEX #2/FINAL PHASE
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The Commission generally preferred the type of dug outs that are in City
Hall Park Complex #1 and agreed to have the same type put in the Field
of Dreams complex. They also agreed to Option 1 for ferlcing, but
eliminate the fencing between the fields. The fencing, then, would only
be the length of the in-fields going to the south. They felt that makes
it easier for maintenance and that it would not matter if a ball came
into the tar walkway occasionally. Fencing can always be added if it
becomes a problem. The east side would be totally fenced with a six-
foot fence. It was also suggested that consideration be given to
providing a removable gate at the main entrance of the fields, such as
a double 4-foot gate to close it in the winter and remove it during the
sports seasons. Mr. Starr stated he would check into that option and
also look at doing something to highlight the main entry.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 7
(Approve Fencing Plan/IP93-7/City Hall Park Complex #2, Continued)
Commissioner O'Toole suggested the bituminous path be offset to one side
to allow for parking up to the fence in the winter and to provide a pad
for turning around for trucks delivering to the concession building,
etc. Mr. Haas stated they would look at that. He will also obtain
quotes for this phase of the fencing.
CITY HALL PARK COMPLEX 12/PARKING LOT DISCUSSION
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Chairperson Anderson explained he met with the City Administrator today,
who advised that he would not recommend the use of TIF funds to blacktop
the parking lot at the Field of Dreams. It was the Commission's
understanding that that expense would come from TIF funds. Had they
known and given the choice, the preference would have been to use TIF
funds to pave the Field of Dreams parking lot, not the street and
parking lots at City Hall Park Complex #1. The estimated cost for
bituminous at the Field of Dreams parking lot is $86,000.
Mr. Haas stated the Class 5 is in and will be paid for either from TIF
or by the contractor. Commissioner O'Toole noted the Class 5 there now
:) is considerably less than what was there before the sewer project. Mr.
~ Haas stated that will be brought up to the original specifications, as
the contractor has an obligation to replace what was taken out.
Mr. Haas also explained the memo from City Engineer Scott Erickson with
the proposal to add an additional row of parking by adding 10 feet to
the parking area and to install the conduit for future lighting. The
parking lot expansion is estimated to be an additional $7,000 and the
installation of conduit an additional $3,920. It would increase the
parking from 244 to about 270 stalls. ~
The Commission was disappointed with the financing, as they were under
the impression that all bituminous would be picked up by TIF funds. In
a cursory review of the park dedication funds to date, with all
obligations and proposed expenses, it was thought the fund would be
depleted. It was suggested the Commission bring this item to the City
Council at the budget meeting on August 7. Another suggestion was to
have the item placed on the next Council agenda to ask that the Council
consider the use of TIF funds to pay for the bituminous as originally
understood.
The Commission asked Mr. Haas to check with the Finance Director for a
more specific accounting of the park dedication fund. No decision was
made on the City Engineer's proposal.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes - August 3, 1995
Page 8
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CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT
Mr. Haas noted the developer of Fox Woods was asked to remove the bridge
over Coon Creek before park dedication was accepted. In inspecting the
bridge, Staff found it to be solid and recommended it not be removed.
It could be used as a crossing over the creek as the walking and biking
paths are developed.
MOTION by Paulson, Seconded by O'Toole, to adjourn. Motion carried on
a 4-Yes, 3-Absent (Erickson, Kieffer, Lindahl) vote.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:18 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
~~Ch~~
Recording Secretary
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