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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJune 15, 1995 o o o .~, u o CITY of ANDOVER PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION - JUNE 15, 1995 MINUTES ' The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Chairperson Tom Anderson on June 15, 1995, 7:33 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Dave Erickson, Al Grabowski (arrived at 8:00 p.m.)~ Jeff Ki~ffer, Dave O'Toole Jim Lindahl, Roger Paulson Park Coordinator, Todd Haas Others Commissioners absent: Also present: RESIDENT FORUM Chuck Schmidt, Andover Baseball - explained currently the operation of the lights on ball fields 1 and 2 is controlled by the Andover Athletic Association. It places a lot of responsibility on the AAA, which should be handled by the baseball association. The AAA shouldn't be expected to be responsible for turning the lights on and off. He talked with Commissioner Grabowski about this this afternoon, who agrees that something different needs to be done. It would also provide the baseball association more flexibility if they could control the lights. Often times the games run 10 to 15 minutes past 10 o'clock; and they would like to be able to turn the lights off at the' end of the game, not have them shut off at precisely 10 o'clock. It could be a safety issue if a ball is in play at that time. He asked if the Commission would consider moving the box outside of the equipment shed and have a padlock or a timer on it. He understood the option to have a community service officer available during the games and to control the lights in the evenings has not been pursued. If it is a matter of expense to move the junction box outside of the door, the baseball association would help with that expense. Mr. Haas stated he would have Public Works check on the costs of moving the junction box and of installing a timer. He also noted Commissioner Grabowski was going to write a letter about a community service officer. He didn't know the status of that letter. Mr. Schmidt - stated they would appreciate anything that can be done to speed up the process. They have had only positive responses about the lighting of the fields. They are very much appreciated and have helped with their scheduling tremendously. (J () (~J , \ U l) Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 2 ASHFORD DEVELOPMENT SKETCH PLAN - SECTION 28 Jerrv Windschitl, Ashford Development - explained the proposal consists of 14 rural residential lots with a market of mid- to upper- priced homes. The conunission preferred to accept cash in lieu of land for park dedication. Because it is an open area and a smaller parcel of land, they felt if a park is needed in the future, there is ample area to take land later. Mr. Windschitl was agreeable. WOODLAND MEADOWS PARK DISCUSSION, CONTINUED Mr. Haas noted a copy of the petition opposing the park, plus the City offices have received calls of concern regarding the development of the park. He also noted the original petition in favor of the park. Annette Ward, 2070 173rd Avenue - addressed the Conunission on behalf of those requesting the development of the park. In the February Andover newsletter, an article asked if anyone is interested in developing their neighborhood park, they should call Mr. Haas. She did so, and found that it took a couple signatures to indicate an interest to get started. She did that. Several months later she talked with Linda Isaacson, who had independently made the same call. They then decided to work together to get the petition. Since then they have sent out a newsletter to the resident of the development explaining the request, which is to develop the park with a children's play area with swings, jungle gym, etc., plus a basketball court. Understanding the park is City property and the City can do what it wants, they appreciated the ability to provide input into the development to meet the needs of the neighborhood. They received 24 signatures, but did not contact all of the people who live by the park because they understood from previous contacts with them that they were not in favor. As they went around the neighborhood with flyers, they explained their intent that trees would not be removed and the lay of the land would not be changed. She also received a written letter from the county assessor stating just because the City develops a park does not mean the taxes will go up, and she presented that letter to the Conunission (Letter from Anoka County Assessor John Leone dated June 14, 1995) No one has stated that security lights would be necessary. They never talked about parking being a problem since it was felt that access would be by foot or by bike. Ms. Isaacson has revisited with the people who originally signed the petition to see if they still supported the park development and has obtained additional signatures in favor as well. She felt the issue has gotten more emotional than anyone intended, and she hoped it could be handled in a congenial way. Jerrv Sobieck, 2159 172nd Avenue - asked if the adjacent property owners should be notified when something is going to be done to property. He was frustrated with the way this was handled, especially that he was not notified that something was going to be happening right next to his property, charging that the Conunissioners would not like to be treated . \ V o Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 3 :.) (Woodland Meadows Park Discussion, Continued) in that manner either. None of the people soliciting signatures approached the adjacent property owners, speculating the reason they didn't was because they knew those owners were opposed. He charged that the equipment chosen would fill an area of three acres. He was also concerned with the location of the park. It is outside of the smaller lot areas, and most are significantly larger than this one. It is on the curve, which will create a safety problem if cars are allowed to park on the road. Plus there is no speed limit and no warning signs. He rented a speed gun and found cars are not driving 30 to 35 mph. It is an "accident waiting to happen" even before it is developed. He wondered why there is such a rush to develop it now, alleging it would cost the developers more not to dedicate money for the new development than to dedicate the land area. He didn't think it was possible to install all of the equipment without removing trees, but they haven't been shown a diagram of where everything will fit. He noted the hazardous situation for parking at Lund's park with the ball field and was afraid that would happen here if the City decides to construct a ball field in the future. The City is liable if anything happens. He didn't think anybody checked for the nesting of the birds, as that is the only sectibn of the neighborhood left for wild life. Without any parking, those that do come by car will have to turn around in someone's driveway. Also, the streets are not wide enough for parking. Ordinance 47 says the parks are open from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. Can it be changed to be open only until dark? Otherwise kids will be there playing basketball after dark. () (Commissioner Grabowski arrived at this time; 8:00 p.m.) Mr. Sobieck continued that when the equipment is installed, people will drive to get there. He again stated he felt bad that they were not informed of the proposal. Commissioner Kieffer explained they met on the site at the last meeting; people presented a petition. Nothing has happened yet. This is the time to state opinions. Public notices of the meeting are published. Mr. Sobieck continued with his arguments that the adjoining parcels should have been notified, with mistakes made in other parks and the problems it creates for parking, with concerns on the park development itself because of lack of water and bathroom facilities, etc. The residents do think there should be a park there, but they would like to see what goes in there. Commissioner Kieffer explained this is very preliminary, and public input is being taken now. Chairperson Anderson also noted that satellites are not placed in the parks unless there is a ball field. They do try to layout the equipment in parks. There was a suggestion for a basketball court, though it is not yet known whether one will fit there. Mr. Haas stated the intent was to install a smaller scale basketball court, not a full-sized court, with two hoops. (j Mr. Sobieck stated a basketball court will invite more people from outside of the neighborhood, plus increase the parking problem because the older youth will drive to the park, not walk or ride a bike. There aren't even warning signs on the road now. Mr. Haas stated he did order warning signs last year. He will check into that again. u ~J Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 4 ~J (Woodland Meadows Park Discussion, Continued) Mr. Sobieck felt if there is a need for more space, it should be required of the developer for Woodland Meadows 2nd Addition, because there is not enough space in this .92-acre park to develop., Mr. Haas explained the Park Commission asked for cash in lieu of land for Woodland Meadows 2nd. It has changed its policy since this development. The thinking now is that parks are not as necessary in the 2.5-acre developments because most people have play equipment in their own yards. Also, there is the regional park of Hawk Ridge close to this area. Mr. Sobieck noted most people already have basketball hoops in their yards. If no trees are removed, how can anyone watch the children. Mr. Haas stated that is something the Commission must talk about. He also responded to the setback issue stating the City would make sure that any development would meet the setback requirements. CJ Mr. Sobieck stated his point is the issue of safety and traffic, noting there are horses riding through the neighborhood. There is no space for parking on that road. He also felt a volleyball court would attract the youth corning to the park in cars. Chairperson Anderson thought they may have to place No Parking signs along one side of the road if it becomes a problem; however, the intent is for this to be a neighborhood park. There are no plans for off-street parking of vehicles or bikes. (J Linda Isaacson, 17231 Partridqe Street NW - explained a few people on the petition called her back and changed their mind. They st~ll wanted the playground equipment and volleyball court, but not the basketball court. The basketball court seems to be the biggest issue. She had a map of the neighborhood with indications on each lot as to which people wanted the play equipment and basketball court, which wanted the play equipment but no basketball court, and which did not want anything at all in the park. She presented that map to the Commission. She explained their objective was to provide something for all ages in the development, and that is why the basketball court was considered. With a jungle gym and swing set, it gives a place for people to corne to play without having to cross a busy county road, which is what must be done to get to Hawk Ridge. She is open to any suggestion as to what to do for the teenagers. They do not expect many people to parkr and she didn't expect a basketball court would be a draw for youth from other communities or even from other areas of Andover. If parking poses a problem, a parking area can always be added in the future to accommodate three or four cars. She felt everyone needs to keep in mind that the park is to be developed for the children, not to be used as an extension to neighboring back yards. Ms. Isaacson also explained the reason the residents bordering the park were not contacted is that she was only able to contact people during the day because she works second shift. This is the second vacation day she's taken to attend a City meeting, she feels so strongly about the issue. She was told she only needed 5 to 10 signatures, and she had already gotten more than twice that many. She feels bad those residents were left out, but she also felt from talking with them over the years that they would be opposed. , \ V o Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 5 C) (Woodland Meadows Park Discussion, Continued) Lori Sobieck, 2159 172nd Avenue NW - handed out a copy of a layout for an ideal park. She noted Woodland Meadows incorporates both a piece of the City and rural living, and they live with nature in their back yard, as to many neighbors. She had some real concerns with safety and about the wildlife. She pointed out all of the wildlife they enjoy, asking if everyone has forgotten what attracted them to the neighborhood. It is everyone's job to protect and nurture this. She felt this plot of land could be used for both educating the children and developing an awareness of what is around them as well as protecting and fostering wildlife and nature. The proposed plan displaces the wildlife and eliminates the only natural corridor left for the wildlife to reach the creek. It will also create a safety hazard for the children and pedestrians. Plus the removal of trees and addition of a basketball court will devalue adjacent properties. Any development should protect and enhance the wildlife and provide for the safety of the residents. Later in the meeting Ms. Sobieck talked about developing a nature area with walking paths and benches, maybe a picnic table, to benefit the wildlife and to help educate the children. project Learning Tree will offer suggestions and help get it set up with landscaping, etc. With continued development, she felt they must be responsible and protect the natural areas. Not every park needs to have playground equipment. She ~) asked the Commission to look at a plan that could mesh the small play ~ area with a nature area. She also would like to have a drawing of what is proposed and let everyone see where things are going to be placed. Chuck LaBeaux, 2233 173rd Circle NW - stated they knew where the park was proposed. If this was going to be a problem, he wished they would have addressed the issue when they bought the land next to the park. He thought they should have a park, but he thought they would need three acres for the amount of equipment suggested. About one acre of land is still a good chunk of land, plus they have $30,000 to work with. He'd hate to see this replatted so the park would be to the south of them. The Commissioners explained the $30,000 is the approximate amount of park dedication being received from the Woodland Meadows 2nd'Addition, but the determination has not yet been made as to how much will be spent in this park. They will have to decide how much to invest in this park, as there is no other small park where that amount of money has been spent. o Mr. LaBeaux - suggested spending the $30,000 and getting a nice park. He didn't know about a basketball court, but he did not believe one would be a draw from people very far away. He didn't believe there would be a major park problem there. He was under the impression that when they requested a speed study, MnDot said they didn't need one, that it was not worth their time to get involved. He likes the wildlife, but felt they have to be realistic. Any wildlife that will be displaced will just move next door. There is a tremendous amount of area for the animals to go, so he didn't think that is a valid point. He'd hate to see the $30,000 lost by having it used elsewhere, then next year only get $5,000 or $6,000 to spend. () C_J u u ~.J Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 6 (Woodland Meadows Park Discussion, Continued) Julie Winberq, 17171 Uplander Circle NW - likes the idea of having something for everyone of all ages in the park. Also, the setback area is a valid concern, as well as the S-curve in the road. She was at another park last week which was larger and not sandwiched between two homes, plus there was a parking area off the street. People worry about excessive people coming in their development. She never sees anyone using the basketball court at the City Hall. They already have a park a mile up the road, Hawk Ridge, which has equipment, questioning the need for one. She felt the trees should be left and not disturb the wildlife, as that is the reason everyone moved out there. Many people have left their yards in a natural state because it doesn't disturb anyone. She'd like to see signs on the streets of "Caution, Children Playing", as the traffic does move down the street briskly. She is also concerned about the maintenance and upkeep of the equipment. Other park equipment looks bad, with grass not mowed. Who is going to do the upkeep? She didn't want the area to become a distraction in the neighborhood. Mr. Haas explained the Parks Department has not maintained that park. Terry Kraus, 17241 Partridqe Street - wished the Park Board had sent an official notice to the residents that this was to be discussed. It doesn't seem right that not everyone was approached. What upsets him the most is the volleyball or basketball courts. They all knew this was a park area, but for six years their children have grown up without it. That doesn't bother him, but now all of a sudden it has to be a park. They didn't have any idea a basketball court was to be put in there, describing the scenario of constantly listening to the bouncing of balls and clanging of chain hoops at all hours and it being a hangout for teenagers. Plus they come in cars and turn around in private drives, which was also done by Park Board members when they visited the park two weeks ago. He hasn't seen a park without a satellite and noticed garbage cans changed to posts. There is only a swing set in Hawk Ridge, and it would be nice to have that developed further because it is farther away from homes. He moved out there for the nature; and with this proposal, they will not be able to sit on their decks and enjoy it without the yelling on the basketball court. He also felt that lights would have to be installed, which would be on all night long. Chuck Grider, 1074 Circle - was concerned with traffic because he was sure it would increase. Ice accumulates at the corner, which would have to be fixed, and it would have to be widened for parking. In other parks as the children grow up it becomes full of graffiti, ~wings are torn down, and it becomes unsightly. He was thinking of a tot lot, but a basketball and volleyball court will attract teenagers; and in some parks, only 8 or 9 kids rule it while the police can do nothing. If the Commission has money, he asked that it be spent wisely to better the parks that exist. Lynn Kraus, 17241 Partridqe - was not notified, and she lives next door to Mrs. Isaacson. She is the originator of the second petition. Many people did not know anything about it. Some people changed their mind u (j Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 7 (J (Woodland Meadows Park Discussion, Continued) and wanted their name off the original petition, as they thought it was going to be a nice little park, not with basketball or volleyball. She'd like to see the land with a nature walk or wild flowers and a park bench. She didn' t believe all of the equipment could be installed without touching the trees. The wildlife has gone down a lot because every time a house goes in, there is less room for them; and there will be even less with Woodland Meadows 2nd. They moved to this area from Brooklyn Center which had the children, parks, and playgrounds. There are plenty of other parks around. She had to drive her children to other parks, and it wasn't a problem. She loves coming into the area and seeing the nature. She doesn't want to see a park with a satellite there or hear the screaming of kids or bouncing of basketballs. Who will referee these things? Who will watch these kids? It seems like a big place to send kids for babysitting. Everyone has a swing set and a basketball court in their own yard, so why do they need more? It will be nothing but a hazard. There are 15 children within four houses of that area, and most of the time they are out in the street. This will bring more children from the north end. She didn't believe everyone will come on foot, but will drive and park on the street. If no parking signs are put up, they will move to the other side or further outside of the signs. She thought it will be an eye sore with pop cans, candy wrappers, etc., leading to a petition for lights and satellites. Who will keep it up and maintain it? u Kevin Squier. 2138 172nd Avenue stated it was his driveway the Commissioners used to turn around when they visited the park, and he didn't like it. His concern is the 55 mph speed limit and the cars parking on the curb. He has two children that like to run in and out. He thought they have a park there already, a nature park; and that is the way he would like it to stay. Don Leverson, 17240 Partridqe Street - was under the impression that this was all cut and dried. He understood Mrs. Isaacson to say they have a petition of over 50 percent; however, those opposed have 30 and can bring in more. He asked if the Commission would even consider installing a basketball or volleyball court in that area since it cannot be seen from the road at all. He didn't think that would be a good idea since it is so secluded. There is nothing for parking there; but when a flyer was put in his mailbox laying out the various apparatus, it rivaled Hawk Ridge with a big jungle gym and swing set. They already have a big park. Maybe this should be scaled down. He didn't mind a little equipment up front, but he couldn't see spending $30,000 on it. Jodi Laliberte. 17280 Uplander Street NW - loves her neighborhood. Of the six or eight places they have lived, they have never found a more friendly and cohesive neighborhood. This is really hard because the neighbors are pitted against each other. On the wildlife issue, she " \ stated everyone wants to be the last one to move into Andover and wants ,J development to stop. Unfortunately, it isn't that way; but they should do what they can to protect it. This isn't the first divi~ive issue they have had, but she hoped this can be resolved democratically by a majority. () CJ Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 8 (-.J (Woodland Meadows Park Discussion, Continued) Diane Moore. 2220 173rd Circle - stated the issue seems to be whether or not there is a park, but they were told there is one when they purchased the land. They were also told that the intent was that it would become a playground area for the children. She is here to discuss what type of equipment to have in the park, appreciating the opportunity to have input. Other residents in the audience stated they were told when buying their lot that it would never be developed. C-.J Mr. Haas stated the intent, when developing a park, is to look for input from the residents in the neighborhood. He also explained the differences between what is put into neighborhood parks versus the regional parks like Hawk Ridge. The City's utmost concern is for safety. Also, the intent is to try to save as many trees as~possible. There is room in front of the trees for playground equipment. There was mention of a basketball or volleyball court in the back, but there is the security issue. The Commission has also instituted the Adopt-A-Park program, highly recommending to the residents that they participate in that program. Satellites are only installed where there are ball fields, not in neighborhood parks. Security lights are not installed unless it becomes a problem area. The Parks Department maintains all parks. The City wants to work with the residents to develop this park. It hasn' t been developed before this because there hasn't been an interest. He also explained that generally the City does not invest that much money in a neighborhood park at once; and in this case, many people already have equipment in their yards. Many times the equipment is installed in phases. A considerable amount of discussion continued with members of the audience as to what should or should not be done with the park, many were points repeated, and suggestions were made on how to proceed at this point. The main objection seemed to be the basketball and volleyball courts because of the inability to see them from the road, the attraction for teens from outside the neighborhood, and the probability of drawing cars to the park. The Commission also noted the difficulty with servicing the area in the back on this particular parcel. Other suggestions for the park included utilizing the entire park even if the courts are not installed, leaving room for a small parking lot in the event it is needed in the future, compromising with both small equipment and a nature area, or not doing anything with it. It was finally determined that three residents will meet with Mr. Haas, one person from each position, to formulate layouts of the park in three or four scenarios for the Commission to review at the next meeting. Linda Isaacson, Jodi Laliberte, and Lori Sobieck volunteered. Residents will be mailed notices from the City to stop by City Hall to view the sketches and to vote on which one they would prefer. The Commission , ~ also verbally agreed that the dollar amount for this park development ,~ should more realistically be $10rOOO to $12,000, typically the amount spent for development of a neighborhood park this size. There is also the possibility of staging in additional equipment in the future. u () Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 15, 1995 Page 9 () CONCESSION BUILDING - CITY HALL PARK COMPLEX 11 - DOOR The Commission noted the June 14, 1995, letter from Fire Chief Dan Winkel regarding the second access to the storage building used by the Andover Athletic Association. Commissioner Grabowski explained they do have concessions from that building; therefore, a second access would be required. He suggested an emergency doorr which is not a regular access but is tripped with pressure to open in case of an emergency. Mr. Haas stated he will talk with the Public Works Superintendent regarding the costs of an emergency door and the cost to install a timer for the ball field lights. APPROVAL OF MINUTES June 1, 1995: Correct as written. MOTION by O'Toole, Seconded by Erickson, to approve the Minutes for June 1. Motion carried on a 4-Yes, I-Present (Grabowski), 2-Absent (Lindahl, Paulson) vote. FINANCIAL REPORT , I --/ The Commission agreed to table the item since the Finance Director was not present. The Commission also asked that further detail be provided as to what park dedication fees are pending and what bills are outstanding. They also suggested a Thank You letter be sent to a contact person for the donation from Ms Andover Pageant-Field of Dreams. Mr. Haas stated he will send the letter. OTHER BUSINESS Commissioner Grabowski stated he gave Kevin Starr, Parks Department, all of the recommendations from the State on fencing ball fields. MOTION by Kieffer, Seconded by Grabowski, to adjourn. Motion carried on a 5-Yes, 2-Absent (Lindahl, Paulson) vote. The meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, ,).~~~J \. Recording Secretary