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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJune 10, 1997 '\ '-_/ ( " . "'---" , '\ " , '-"" - "- u o CITY of ANDOVER Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Agenda June 10, 1997 Andover City Hall 7:00 p.m. 1. Call to Order 2. Approval of Minutes - May 27, 1997 3. Public Hearlne:: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square - Section 23 - Edward and Lora Hamilton. 4. Public Hearine:: Special Use Permit (SUP 97-11) - Chain Link Fence with Barbed Wire Security Arm - 13735 Round Lake Boulevard NW, Suite 117 - Merwyn's Drug Store. 5. Public Hearine:: Special Use PermitIVariance (SUP 97-12) - Area Identification Sign - Meadowlark Heights - 97 154th Avenue NW - Scott Lennes, Inc. 6. Ordinance Review: Ordinance No. 224, Regulating User Strength Charges Ordinance No. 226, Regulating Auto Recycling Yards Ordinance No. 227, Regulating the Sale of Cigarettes Ordinance No. 228, Regulating Swimming Pools 7. Other Business 8. Adjournment i .:.J o / '\ '0 ( '\ V C) CITY of ANDOVER 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (612) 755-5100 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - JUNE 10, 1997 MINUTES The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Acting Chairperson Jay Squires on June 10, 1997, 7:00 p.m, at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Maynard Apel, Lynnette Barry, Jeff Luedtke, Lorna Wells Mike Gamache, Randy Peek City Engineer, ScotL Erickson City Planning, Jeff Johnson Community Development Director, Dave Carlberg Others Commissioners absent: Also present: APPROVAL OF MINUTES May 27, 1997: Correct as written. MOTION by Luedtke, Seconded by Wells, approval of the Minutes. Motion carried on a 4-Yes, 1-Present (Squires), 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek). PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT - HAMILTON SQUARE - SECTION 23 EDWARD AND LORA HAMILTON 7:01 p.m. Mr. Carlberg reviewed the proposed 24.9-acre preliminary plat of Hamilton Square in the northeast corner of Hanson Boulevard ani Crosstown Boulevard. The property is zoned SC, Shopping Center, is located in the Metropolitan Urban Service Area, and is proposed to consist of seven commercial lots. He then reviewed the comments of the Andover Review Committee relating to the additional right of way needed on Crosstown Boulevard fo~the future widening of that county road; the ownership of Lot 3, Block 1, which consists of the stormwater retention pond and covered in its entirety with a drainage and utility easement; the drainage of stormwater to the north which has been approved by the Coon Creek Watershed District; the requirement of a 10-foot-wide bituminous bikeway/walkway along Hanson Boulevard and Crosstown Boulevard proposed to be funded SO/50 by the developer and the City; and referencing the comments of the City's Engineering Staff and Daniel Fabian of TKDA, the City's engineering consultant. The Park and Recreation Commission will be reviewing the preliminary plat at their June 19 meeting, though they recommended cash in lieu of land when reviewing the sketch plan. All lots in the plat meet or exceed the requirements for lot area, lot width and lot depth. Staff is recommending approval with conditions. . \ .. J -) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 2 / (Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square, Continued) During the Commission discussion, Mr. Carlberg clarified the U.S. Postal Service has made it very clear they do not want any ponding or drainage and utility easements on their lot. The issue is the ownership of Lot 3, Block 1, which will not be a buildable lot but will be the ponding area for the entire plat. 'The concern is that the parcel would go tax forfeit and ultimately become a liability to the county or City. A proposal by the Staff is to consider creating a homeowners' association to be responsible for the maintenance, liability insurance and taxes 011 that parcel. It may be necessary, however, to establish that association without including the postal service. Mr. Carlberg also noted the proposal to split the cost of the bikeway/walkway has not been discussed with the developer; however, that has been done with the plats of Woodland Estates and Chesterton COITLmOns. Ultimately that is a Council decision. The sketch plan had consisted of only four lots. Block 2 has been divided into four lots for the preliminary plat process so there is an idea of how it would develop in the future. They may not final plat all of the property at this time. He understood there have been a number of discussions by the parties involved in this plat and the Chesterton Commons plat to the north regarding the issue of drainage. ,/ MOTION by Luedtke, Seconded by Barry, to open the public hearing. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 7:17 p.m. Gorden Jensen. Attornev for the Hamiltons - complemented the Staff in their efforts to get issues resolved. He presented a letter from the U.S. Postal Service dated June 2 which stated their position on ponding. While he was willing to talk with the purchaser of Lot 1, Block 1, Health Partners, about forming a homeowners' association for th~ maintenance of Lot 1, Block 3, he questioned the likelihood that they would agree to accept those costs knowing that the postal service, which is proposed to purchase Lot 2, Block 1, will be excluded. He stated it would be highly unusual to exclude one of the major owners of the property from an association. They are asking that Lot 3 be accepted for what it is, a storm water detention area for the entire develo~ment. It is the piece of property that allows this to be developed, and it should be an integral part of the storm water system for the City of Andover. They are not in a position to say how they feel about the proposal at this time. Mr. Jensen stated the other issue is the proposal to pay for half of the cost of the bikeway/walkway trail. They are willing to participate in that cost, but they also have to pay park dedication. If they must pick up part of the cost of the trails, which is a part of the park system, they will be requesting the Park Board to give a credit against their park dedication. , / Jerrv Windschitl. President. Ashford Development - presented a letter for the record from himself dated June 10, 1997, listing known items supporting the argument that the storm water drainage from this plat " ~ 1.J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 3 (Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square, Continued) should be going to the south. He also stated that Ed Fields Sons have asked him to express their objection to the storm water going north from this plat as well. Mr. Windschitl was under the impression from the June 3 Council meeting that the drainage from this plat was to go south, and that Winslow Holasek was going to agree to give one 1 CFS of his capacity so that water could drain south. Yesterday he found out the drainage is still going north. He also noted that the water from this site flows south in its undeveloped state, that the drainage was proposed to go south in TKDA projects 87-3B and 87-11, that drainage to the south would result in a lower invert for the Hamilton Square project which may help the low floor building elevations, that going south would keep the water out of the drainage sensitive area around Ditch 37, anJ that Ashford Development has not granted easements to use their property for storm water drainage or any other utility crossing. .I Mr. Windschitl also noted they are concerned with the grading of the ponding site, as it appears that water would be forced to flow onto his property which doesn't have a right to flow there. He is also concerned with the elevation of the pond and the potential to flood his property, in particular the backs of four of his lots. The 100-year flood elevation is 898.58, but the top of the pond appears to be 898, which is 0.6 feet less. The normal water level is at 895 feet. As proposed it doesn't meet the 100-year flood elevation, nor is there any room for bounce. They have taken objection to running the storm water through Chesterton Commons, as they are paying for the system in Chesterton Commons and it appears that Hamilton Square wants to use that system at no cost. , / Jeff Shooek. F.E.. Loucks & Associates. Inc.. Civil Enqineer on the Hamilton Square oroiect - explained they have been working with the engineer on the Ashford Development project of Chesterton Commons. The issue of draining to the south was addressed and even thought to be feasible at one point. He noted the existing storm drainage to the south through Winslow Hills, Oak Bluff, Xeon Street, Lake Andover ani ultimately discharging into Coon Creek. The system is in place, and there isn't extra capacity to allow for additional discharge into it. Now there is a resident downstream that has a concern, and additional water would add to that concern. An extensive study would need to be done to determine the effects of adding more water to that system, plus it may be necessary to obtain hold harmless releases fromprC'perty owners down stream. After meeting with the City's engineers, TKDA and the Coon Creek Watershed engineers, it was determined the drainage should go north. The Watershed has given approval but has added restrictions because of the drainage sensitive areas along Ditch 37. They will have to meet the 25-year pre-development discharge rate. They are still determining whether that will mean a change in pipe size through Chesterton Commons and additional costs. The drainage system to the north can still be modified as it is not yet installed. He understood that there were no engineers at the discussion with the Council on June 3, noting they were still in the process of developing the system. They have now complied with all of the items on TKDA's June 6, 1997, letter except for some minor items. ; J \J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 4 / (Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square, Continued) Mr. Shopek continued it was not intended to bring any water onto the back yards of lots in Chesterton Commons. There are pine trees along the north property line, which they hope to keep in place. The plan is to take all of the water from the commercial development, bring it to Bluebird Street to the major collection pipe, through a water quality treatment system, then to the pond. There are contours at 899 feet with a flood elevation of 898.58 feet. They could raise it up another one- half foot to get a full foot above the 100-year flood elevation. There are also existing contours in the northeast corner of 899.2 and 901 feet, and they will be berming around the back side to control water so it does not run off to the north. He realized there are no easements to the north, but they will be working with the developer. They originally tried to bring sewer from the north, but a 35- to 40-foot easement was required, which had a significant impact to the lots. Instead the sewe~ is being brought in from Crosstown Boulevard, which adds about $20,000 to the cost of the project. Any easements on Chesterton Commons will be within the building setbacks, so the building pad areas will not be impacted. Those items haven't been finalizeo, and they will be working with the developer of Chesterton Commons. He felt the items of utilities and storm sewers require engineering solutions that both parties must come to an agreement on. Acting Chairperson Squires asked for clarification on several items. Mr. Shopek explained the capacity of the Winslow Hills development to allow 1 CFS for this plat to go to the south in lieu of going north would resolve the capacity problem; but it is a timing problem as well. It would require an extensive study to determine how the additional water would impact the system relative to the timing at the various points downstream. The system in place has 11 ponds and potentially adversely affects one homeowner already. By going north, they still have the opportunity to look at pipe sizing to make sure the capacity and volume going north can get through Chesterton Commons without affecting the 100-year flood. The Watershed was also concerned with the volume, but they believe that with the restriction of releasing the runoff at the pre-development 25-year rate, the ditch downstream can handle the flow. Winslow Holasek. 1159 Andover Boulevard - agreed Mr. Windschitl is probably right that the property of the proposed Hamilton Square does drain south. He contended, however, that the break is further north, somewhere on Mr. Windschitl's plat of ChestErton Commons. Yet all of Chesterton Commons is draining north to Ditch 37. He didn't know the volume of discharge from Chesterton Commons, but he felt that the commercial development will have a smaller impact than the housing development. Ken Slvzuk. 15211 Niqhtinqale - is affected by Ditch 37 along with the Fields. Thousands of dollars are being spent on engineering, who say there is no problem. The natural drainage is to the south, but it is not going to be directed that way because of homeowners downstream. He asked why those homeowners have more rights than he does. Why doesn't anyone worry about the farmers downstream along Ditch 37? He invests a '- ) : ) ,~ Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 5 / (Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square, Continued) lot of money in the month of May, just so it will get washed out in the month of June. Why does this get shoved down their throats? Nobody cares about them because there is not enough of them. In the sugar sand there is no runoff; but once the streets, houses and driveways are put in, there is runoff. And that affects them directly. He has also seen that in reality it does not always work the way the engineers say it will. He's convinced with all of the development going on that is draining into Ditch 37, it will definitely have a negative effect on the farmers. They are saying there is no capacity in Coon Creek, but what happens when Ditch 37 fills to the top? Mr. Slyzuk specifically asked why the drainage from this plat can't go south when it was engineered that way. Commissioner Apel agreed it may be able to go south, but it is a poli tical and an engineering issue. They have heard both sides from Mr. Winds chi tl and from the engineers. In further discussion with Mr. Slyzuk, Commissioner Apel also agreed that the split in topography is probably somewhere in Chesterton Commons, and he'd like to see a:l analysis of that development as to its impact on Ditch 37 as well. He fel t that will impact the ditch a lot more than this commercial development will. He didn't necessarily agree that development is progress, but all issues must be balanced. IL this particular plat, Mr. Windschitl and the Hamilton's must come to an agreement so this plat can be approved. He appreciated Mr. Slyzuk's position, having also experienced things that happened when they weren't supposed to happen resul ting from the construction of Hanson Boulevard. He did feel, however, that both the engineers and the Council were trying to do a good job. Individuals may be impacted, but in general they do a good job and have honestly tried to give the farmers the same protection as others in the City. Mr. Windschitl - didn't agree with Mr. Holasek's position that the dividing line is in Chesterton Commons. A reference was made to the potential flooding of someone's driveway or house downstream if the drainage went south. He felt it would be important to know who this person is. He believed there is a lawsuit dealing with some of those issues by someone involved in this situation one way or another. If Mr. Holasek develops and there is flooding, it should be resolved; but that flooding has nothing to do with the drainage of Hamilton Square to the south. That water clearly has the right to go south if Mr. Holasek is willing to give up the 1 CFS capacity. Commissioner Apel stated the 10 CFS is a property right that Mr. Holasek owns. He again stated this is a political and engineering issue. Mr. Windschitl - stated to the best of his knowledge, no engineering firm has made the determination as to the impact of this, including his own engineering firm. Acting Chairperson Squires asked if the concerns Mr. Windschitl raised this evening resulted from any analysis done by his engineering firm. Mr. Windschitl - stated the concerns he expressed this evening are not based on engineering studies. The drainage sensitive designation of ,~ / , ) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 6 ,. (Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square, Continued) Ditch 37 was done by the Watershed. He has four lots that are being impacted by easements. He is also building a system that others want to use for free. The items in the letter relate to what he felt was resolved at the last Council meeting to have Hamilton Square drain to the south. Mr. Holasek - stated he has 9.67 CFS in the storm drainage system, and he was asked if he would give up approximately 1 CFS. The issue is now moot because the Watershed engineer, City engineers, TKDA's engineer and the developer's engineer have looked at it and agreed there are other issues besides CFS. The proposal to go north has been approved by the Coon Creek Watershed, and it doesn't make much difference whether he agrees with it or not. Mr. Erickson explained a meeting was held with the developer's engineer, and engineering from TKDA, the Watershed and the City to look at the two options. Mr. Shopek already indicated the concerns to the south with capacity; and even with the 1 CFS, the timing and impact on the ponds further down would have to be evaluated, which is an extensive and time consuming study. In looking at the drainage going north, the Watershed indicated Ditch 37 is drainage sensitive and has additional requirements for discharging into it. It appeared that the most viable option was to go north. The Watershed approved the proposal last night with those restricted discharge requirements. There will be no dredging of Ditch 37 as a part of this project, but the Water~hed is evaluating it on a larger scale and looking at improvements in the future. They too are concerned with not creating problems downstream. Commissioner Apel noted that each plat that discharges to Ditch 37 has been treated separately, and he felt that the entire ditch should be considered as to the effect of full development in the future. MOTION by Wells, Seconded by Barry, to close the public hearing. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 8:20 p.m. The Commission discussed the issues of drainage, cost-sharing of the trails, and ownership of the drainage lot. Mr. Erickson didn't know if the City owned any other ponds in the City, as typically it takes an easement over the top. Mr. Carlberg again explained the suggestion is to form an owners' association rather than the City owning them; otherwise, the parcel would likely go tax forfeit and end up a City liability. Acting Chairperson Squires felt that is a legitimate concern. He's not convinced the postal service would not be willing to participate in an owners' association of that parcel, noting the letter from them states they would contribute to their fair share for maintenance of their drainage. He felt it was a reasonable request to have an owners' association formed to control that parcel. Commissioner Apel disagreed. It is the City's responsibility because it is part of the City's storm drainage system. The City wants the pond, but it does not want the responsibility of maintaining it; so it is requiring the property owners to do so. It is an economical decision, not moral or ethical. He stated it is a cop out and is hypocritical. '-J '- ) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 7 , / (Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat - Hamilton Square, Continued) Acting Chairperson Squires did not think it is hypocritical as the taking of easements and requiring associations is in the City's interest. Commissioner Barry observed a lot of discord and disagreement with the effect on Ditch 37 versus the effects of going to the south. She wondered why the system to the south isn't adequate to handle this development if it naturally drains that way. What happens to the future developments that drain both north and south? She felt there needs to be an extensive watershed plan for this City to continue developing. It needs to be studied much further from this area, and she was not confident making a decision based on the data they have. Mr. Erickson explained when the drainage district was established to the south, the Hamilton property and anything north of Crosstown Boulevard was not included. The City had started a regional study of Ditch 37, but it was a Council decision to look at each development as it comes in because most of the developable property directly abutted the ditch. In discussing the bituminous bikeway/walkway, Mr. Erickson explained the intent is to bring the walkers and bikers down to the controlled intersection of Hanson and Crosstown Boulevards. The intent is also to have a walkway on the west side of Hanson Boulevard to the schools. He noted that the trails are not treated as a part of the park system but as a part of the transportation system. That is why they are asking for additional funding from the developers to offset that cost. Several Commissioners felt the trails are important, especially given new anJ proposed requirements for walkers to the schools to cut bussing costs. They also predicted a lot of walkers from the schools to the medical clinic and potentially an orthodontist office in this plat. MOTION by Wells, Seconded by Apel, to forward to the City Council the Staff prepared Resolution with the addendum that the Planning Commission strongly suggests that the City look at a comprehensive water use storm drainage plan for the northern area, especially when changing the MUSA line; and that we seriously look at concerns of the property owners along Ditch 37 and work with the Coon Creek Watershed to do some dredging or some ponding of the areas along Ditch 37 and get the funding for that. Motion failed on a I-Yes (Wells), 4-No, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. MOTION by Apel, Seconded by Luedtke, to forward to the City Council a Resolution as prepared by Staff with particular focus on No.5, the stormwater drainage to the north be coordinated with the drainage of Chesterton Commons. This must be addressed specifically. DISCUSSION: Commissioner Apel stated that is the only change to the Resolution. He did not wish to include anything regarding an owners' association of Lot 3, Block 1. Motion carried on a 3-Yes (Apel, Luedtke, Wells), 2-No (Barry, Squires), 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. This will be placed o~ the June 17, 1997, City Council agenda. 8:47 p.m. ,_J \ 'J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 8 - I PUBLIC HEARING: SPECIAL USE PERMIT - CHAIN LINK FENCE WITH BARBED WIRE SECURITY ARM - 13735 ROUND LAKE BOULEVARD NW, SUITE 117 - MERWIN'S DRUG STORE 8:47 p.m. Mr. Carlberg reviewed the request of Merwin's Drug Store to install a two-foot high barbed wire security arm atop a six-foot high cedar fence at the north side of their store at 13735 Round Lak..:.- Boulevard NW, Suite 117. The 72 x 25-foot area would be used to store lawn equipment and would not be visible from any public roadway. The area is presently used for parking and as a drive-through area. The parking stalls will be eliminated. Staff bas evaluated the parking requirements for the entire shopping center and found the number of parking stalls still exceeds the requirements. There is an existing eight-foot fence separating the residential area from the commercial area. He also noted the applicable ordinances and criteria to be considered. MOTION by Luedtke, Seconded by Barry, to open the public hearing. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 8:58 p.m. A representative of Merwin's Drug Store was asked if employees would be working in that storage area. The response was no, it will be only for storage. MOTION by Barry, Seconded by Wells, to close the public hearing. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 8:59 p.m. MOTION by Luedtke, Seconded by Wells, to forward to the City Council granting of the Special Use Permit for Merwin's Drug as prepared b~' Staff. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. This will be placed on the July 1, 1997, City Council agenda. 9:00 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING: SPECIAL USE PERMIT/VARIANCE - AREA IDENTIFICATION SIGN - MEADOWLARK HEIGHTS - 97 154TH AVENUE NW - SCOTT LENNES, INC. 9:00 p.m. Mr. Johnson reviewed the request of Scott Lennes, Inc., for a Special Use Permit and variance to erect a 32-square-foot area identification sign (permanent monument) at the entrance of the plat at 97 154th Avenue NW, Lot 1, Block 1, Meadowlark Heights. The variance is from Ordinance No. 10, Section 8.04(K), as the applicant did not apply for the Permit before the preliminary plat was approved. The sign is not constructed. He noted the applicable ordinances. Staff is recommending approval with conditions. MOTION by Luedtke, Seconded by Wells, to open the public hearing. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 9:05 p.m. There was no public testimony. / MOTION by Wells, Seconded by Luedtke, to close the public hearing. Motion carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 9:05 p.m. , / \ \J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 9 (Public Hearing: Special Use Permit/Variance - Area Identification Sign - Meadowlark Heights, Continued) MOTION by Barry, Seconded by Apel, to forward to the City Council approval of the Resolution as presented granting the Special Use Permit/Variance request of Scott Lennes, Inc., to allow for the installation of one area identification sign. Motion carried on a 5- Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. This will be placed on the July 1, 1997, City Council agenda. 9:06 p.m. ORDINANCE REVIEW - ORDINANCE NO. 224, REGULATING USER STRENGTH CHARGES Mr. Johnson stated no changes were made to this ordinance. rewritten and renumbered. The Commission had no comment. It was ORDINANCE REVIEW - ORDINANCE NO. 226, REGULATING AUTO RECYCLING YARDS Mr. Johnson stated no changes were made in this ordinance. In reviewing it, Staff has found it to be very effective as written. The Commission had no comment. ORDINANCE REVIEW - ORDINANCE NO. 227, REGULATING THE SALE OF CIGARETTES Mr. Johnson explained only minor language changes were made to this ordinance. Acting Chairperson Squires suggested the Staff check on the State law, as new legislation has been passed this last session giving ci ties more power and control over regulating tobacco sales. It' s possible some of that should be added to this ordinance. Commissioner Barry also noted that some cities no longer license cigarette machine~ and only license establishments where the cigarettes are not accessible. There was also a brief discussion on the penalties for violating the ordinance. Staff stated all the City can do is revoke or suspend the license. They will do further research on the State law and on what other communities are doing. ORDINANCE REVIEW - ORDINANCE NO. 228, REGULATING SWIMMING POOLS Mr. Johnson explained the Building Official reviewed the ordinance and suggested a change on Page 2, Section 3, No.4. Add to the sentence, "on-site sewer system or area designated as an alternate drainfield area." The ordinance was also updated to reference the current Building Code. The Commission asked if there is a problem with draining pools into the sanitary sewer system. Mr. Carlberg didn't believe that was an issue in Andover. Commissioner Wells felt a four-foot fence is short. ,/ Commissioner Wells commented many insurance companies require a higher fence. Mr. Johnson pointed out it is only a minimum to keep toddlers out of the pool area. There was no further Commission comment. , ) :--.J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - June 10, 1997 Page 10 , OTHER BUSINESS Mr. Carlberg reviewed the Council's actions taken at their June 3, 1997, regular meeting. MOTION by Barry, Seconded by Wells, to adjourn the meeting. carried on as-Yes, 2-Absent (Gamache, Peek) vote. 9:20 p.m. Motion Respectfully submitted, .---- ~~P~'Y~ Recording Secretary , I