HomeMy WebLinkAboutJCC September 20, 2007
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1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
Special Joint
City Council & Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
September 20, 2007
7:00 P.M.
1. Call to Order
2. Update of the Park Comprehensive Plan and Dedication Fee Study /06-46D
3. Discuss Proposed 2008-2012 CIP for Parks
4. Discuss Andover Station North Field Facility/Status of Playground
Equipment/07-16
5. Other Business
6. Adjournment
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SPECIAL JOINT
CITY COUNCIL & PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING
SEPTEMBER 20, 2007
MINUTES
The Special Joint Meeting of the Andover City Council and Park and Recreation
Commission was called to order by Mayor Gamache on September 20, 2007, 7:05 p.m.,
at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Council Members Present: Mayor Gamache, Don Jacobson, Ken Orttel
Park Commissioners Present: Chair Dan Masloski, Jeremy Boyer, Ted Butler, Bill Hupp,
Jim Lindahl, Peggy Scott, and Tony Kowalewski
Also Present: Assistant Public Works Director, Todd Haas
0 UPDATE OF THE PARK COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND DEDICATION FEE
STUDY/06-46D
Mr. Haas indicated the three portions of the parks and open space chapter of the
Comprehensive plan. The first portion is the goals, objectives, and policies, which was
drafted by the Planning Department. The second portion is the park dedication study,
which amends the document from 2002 with a few changes. The 3rd portion is the
$11,000,000 worth of improvements that are being recommended by the Park
Commission, which include $2,000,000 for a larger athletic complex. The $11,000,000 is
used in the park dedication study to determine the new park dedication fee.
Mayor Gamache inquired about a timeline. Mr. Haas stated that the plan is setup through
the year 2030.
Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern that the numbers and the plan might be too
aggressive. Mr. Haas responded that the facilities chart includes required updating of
existing outdated playground equipment.
Councilmember Orttel asked for clarification that it would be paid for by future residents.
Mr. Haas stated it includes updating equipment and future parks. He referred to Page 3,
item 8 where 72% of parks are developed and the number of households in 2030 would
0 be 13,941.
Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
0 Minutes - September 20, 2007
Page 2
Councilmember Jacobson believes the number is out of proportion. Mayor Gamache
noted that the allotment for Hawk Ridge is $1 million, with other projects and the Kelsey
Round Lake Park interpretive center.
Councilmember Jacobson mentioned that the numbers exceed the national average. He
wanted to know the amount coming from developers and the general fund.
Mayor Gamache inquired about the equipment that needs updating. Mr. Haas answered
that Page 10 showed existing facilities with the amount about $400,000.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the list did not include rural reserve, so the other parts of
the City would pay a lot.
Mayor Gamache questioned that $40,000 could go to a metal roof. His issue is that
Hawk Ridge Park is in the northern portion of the City and expressed concern about the
use and affordability. He recommended installing a well somewhere else. Commissioner
Hupp responded that because the park is one of the larger ones in the City, it would have
more amenities for multiple uses for the residents.
Councilmember Jacobson stated that a few people could not be expected to pay that
0 amount. Commissioner Hupp answered that the multi-use justifies the numbers the City
would spend, using the usage/cost ratio to prioritize.
Councilmember Orttel indicated that some of the parks are not used on weekends by the
associations.
Mayor Gamache expressed concern about the amount for the hockey rink at Hawk Ridge
Park, and questioned the need for its replacement or repair. Mr. Haas answered that he
would recheck the proposed improvement cost value again with Finance Department and
the Parks Department in Public Works.
Councilmember Orttel stated it is important to know the baseline. He questioned the
validity of the requests.
Councilmember Jacobson cited that the population in the mid 1980's was 8,000, but in
2030 it is supposed to be about 40,000.
Mr. Haas stated that the previous park dedication study from 2002 did include the rural
reserve area, where there were recommendations within the report for two larger park
facilities; however Council decided on one. Mayor Gamache indicated that the parks in
the rural reserve would most likely be neighborhood parks.
0 Councilmember Orttel noted that there is a conflict of numbers. Mr. Haas responded that
the numbers used were a bit higher than those used by the Metropolitan Council.
Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
0 Minutes - September 20, 2007
Page 3
Mayor Gamache indicated that some of the need was based on the present residents; it
would then be a possible bond issue.
Councilmember Orttel stated that it would be a social increase for the existing population,
so one could not put it on the new residents.
Mr. Haas mentioned the rebuilding of playground equipment, and inquired about how
these replacements were being funded. Mayor Gamache noted it should be more from
the general fund, or it could be a bond referendum issue.
Councilmember Orttel expressed concern over overestimating the numbers and the
results if they fell drastically short of projections. The baselines have to be believable.
For midyear, the total was about 50 homes, not 90 homes.
Chair Masloski understands the document is a wish list, and the CIP is the working
document in dollars. In order to make it happen, a bond might be necessary. At present,
our needs are soccer fields, but as the residents age, the needs will change. The CIP is
not balanced and the housing market is not strong, so there are things to address. The
long range plan for 2010 is to solve the field issues, and provide the parks that have been
promised. It would require more funding from the general fund, park referendum, or
0 from user fees.
Mayor Gamache referred to Page 14, table 7 and asked for confirmation that the
commercial industrial rates were based on 10%. Mr. Haas answered it was about
$5/square foot. He inquired if the Council wants the park dedication requirement that
high.
Councilmember Jacobson mentioned that the commercial properties do not affect the use
on parks all that much.
Councilmember Orttel stated in order for an item to be in the CIP, it needs funding.
Mr. Haas indicated that the Finance Department prefers that the CIP at the end of each
year have an ending balance of not less than $50,000 in the black.
Mayor Gamache mentioned Council could accept the Comprehensive Plan wish list,
knowing that more funding would be necessary or changes could occur. Mr. Haas stated
that it does not need approval immediately as this chapter will be presented at a later date
when the rest of the comprehensive plan is ready for final review and approval of the City
Council.
Mayor Gamache inquired if there was any discussion of raising the fee, because it would
0 need to be considered in December as part of the 2008 fee schedule. He asked for
comments.
Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
0 Minutes - September 20, 2007
Page 4
Commissioner Butler stated that a wish list is accurate to a point but he believes it is
more of a long range vision. The question is, is it developed enough to attract families.
Commissioner Hupp indicated the facilities are beautiful, but because of the use perhaps
funding from all three sources could occur.
Councilmember Orttel stated the playgrounds in the wealthier areas are not used, because
they have their own equipment in their backyards.
Commissioner Kowalewski inquired if it would be possible to collaborate with adjacent
municipalities for Hawk Ridge Park.
Mayor Gamache indicated that most associations are at a profit on the books, but the
excess is used for purchasing equipment. They might be able to make a donation.
Commissioner Boyer stated some associations would contribute, while others would not
unless fields were provided. Commissioner Kowalewski mentioned it could be listed at
registration.
Commissioner Scott stated that North Metro Soccer Association is willing to help with
0 funding, because they need fields. However, overall the City will run out of room. She
would like to see funding put toward a larger facility.
DISCUSS PROPOSED 2008-2012 CIP FOR PARKS
Chair Masloski directed the meeting toward the young people wanting a skate park to
speak.
One parent inquired about the possibility of fees and supervision.
Mayor Gamache noted that $100,000 is proposed for the project. Chair Masloski stated
that it would be located on the west side of Sunshine Park, where there is high visibility
and plenty of parking. It most likely would be a Tier I skate park, with no fees and no
supervision. He indicated this is an opportunity for the youth to have a voice in the
equipment for the facility.
One youth expressed concern about the equipment at Constance Free Church, as not
much of the equipmemcould be salvaged.
Another youth stated they like concrete more than metal ramps. A parent added that
poured concrete lasts longer, and there are no screws, nuts or bolts to get hurt on.
Concrete would cost less for maintenance.
0 The group noted there are places to skateboard near Blainebrook, St. Cloud, and Ham
Lake.
Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
0 Minutes - September 20, 2007
Page 5
One youth cited a study that crime and vandalism were reduced since the skate park was
installed. Grades improved as well, because kids could not go to the skate park until their
homework was completed.
Councilmember Jacobson inquired about the number that use the park. One youth
answered that he could not give numbers, but they have dropped off recently.
One parent added there is no safe way to get to the location.
Mayor Gamache stated it used to be at City Hall.
A youth inquired if it would be closed during the school year. Commissioner
Kowalewski asked if there are regulations such as helmets required.
A parent commented that many kids drive to Rogers where they pay $13 for 3 hours of
skate boarding.
Another parent stated that the Sand Creek skate park draws kids from elementary to high
school.
0 Chair Masloski mentioned that it probably had the best usage with minimum problem
calls.
Commissioner Scott inquired about hours, because the bigger kids might try to keep the
smaller kids out. Chair Masloski stated that the Community Service Officer could
frequent the site and talk with the kids.
A youth stated that a facility would be used if it was in a concentrated area with paths to
get there.
Mayor Gamache inquired about the location of the playground at Andover Station North.
Chair Masloski responded that it would need netting and fencing on one side.
Mayor Gamache expressed concern that equipment would be installed in Woodland
Crossings Park and Forest Meadows Park when most have equipment in their yards. He
inquired if it would be possible to not put the equipment in there and use it elsewhere in
the City. Chair Masloski answered that the Commission could review Forest Meadows
Park.
Commissioner Kowalewski inquired about Crooked Lake Boat Landing. Mr. Haas stated
that the Building Official has condenmed the shelter.
0 Councilmember Orttel questioned if it is covered by insurance. He also inquired if the
lake had been dredged. Mr. Haas answered that it had been dredged.
Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - September 20, 2007
0 Page 6
DISCUSS ANDOVER STATION NORTH FIELD FACILITYISTATUS OF
PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT/07-16
Chair Masloski stated that the neighborhood was promised a park, and the associations
were under the impression one would be located in the Andover Station North Fields.
Councilmember Orttel inquired if the Park Dedication Fee iss used for funding. Mr. Haas
stated it is used.
Commissioner Butler stated the Commission initially was looking at equipment for 2-5
and 5-12 year olds.
Councilmember Jacobson inquired if the simulated trees were eliminated. Mr. Haas
responded that they had been cut. The recommendation is to buy equipment for 2-5 year
olds in 2008. In addition, the further west the equipment is located, the less fencing
would be necessary.
Chair Masloski stated that the $47,000 is just for the equipment. Mr. Haas added that he
was going to buy it this year because of sale items and save it for installation next year.
0 Fencing would be required on the east and west sides.
Commissioner Kowalewski believes a fence is needed along the parking lot. Chair
Masloski indicated that a hedge would make it feel less like a cage.
Mr. Haas stated that it needs to move forward for approval to obtain the sale prices.
Councilmember Jacobson stated he should buy everything they need at this price.
Mr. Haas stated that the developer did propose two sites, but the Commission did not find
them satisfactory.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mayor Gamache directed the meeting to Woodland Crossings Park. Mr. Haas noted that
it already includes a shelter and a basketball court.
Mayor Gamache asked for confirmation that the City is responsible for the equipment.
Mr. Haas answered that several neighbors are requesting it.
Chair Masloski acknowledged that the issue of a referendum has been eliminated;
however if many parties were involved, there would be a better chance of it passing.
Councilmember Orttel responded that a study was done for the community center and
0 could be reviewed.
Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - September 20, 2007
0 Page 7
Mayor Gamache recommended advertising to the associations the concept to fmd out if
there is interest.
Chair Masloski stated there is a need for paths and greenways. In addition, there is anti-
sentiment on a second sheet of ice, including it could help or hurt the Park and Recreation
Commission's interest.
Councilmember Jacobson indicated he is not in favor of elections between the general
elections.
Councilmember Orttel expressed concern about the consolidation of money in one area.
Chair Masloski stated he would like the discussion to be begun by other groups. In
addition, some things could change in the field allocation process.
Mr. Haas stated that the percentage could change, but the City would now use the
previous year's numbers obtained from the state organizers for each of the sports.
ADJOURNMENT
0 Motion by Mayor Gamache, seconded by Councilmember Orttel, to adjourn the meeting
at 8:47 p.m. Motion carried on a 3-ayes, O-nays vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Brigette Blesi, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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