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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJCC June 14, 2007 ~a.6 lAnl ~ -, -l!-C' 0 -- JOINT CITY COUNCIL & PARKAND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING- JUNE 14, 2007 MINUTES The Joint Meeting of the City Council and Andover Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache on June 14,2007, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers Present: Mayor Mike Gamache, Don Jacobson, Mike Knight and Ken Orttel Councilmembers Absent: Julie Trude Commissioners Present: Chair Dan Masloski, Jeremy Boyer, Ted Butler, Jim Lindahl, Peggy Scott, and Tony Kowalewski 0 Commissioners Absent: Wendy Albee Also Present: Parks Coordinator Todd Haas, and Jim Dickinson City Administrator DISCUSS REQUEST NEIGHBORHOOD PARK CLOSING TIMES Chair Masloski indicated that some residents had put together a presentation at a previous Commission meeting regarding park closing times. The Commission was inquiring where the Council was on the issue. Mayor Gamache stated that Council dealt with the issue in the past at Pine Hills Park with vandalism and littering. Mr. Haas noted a park sign was dl'lml'lged and a set of bleachers has been stolen in the past. Commissioner Lindahl added that a hole was burned in a slide. Mr. Angell representing the citizen's group stated the picnic table also had to be replaced. Chair Masloski noted the Sheriff's Department could check some of the situations. The Sheriff's Department stated it could have the Community Service Officer (CSO) do extra patrol in the area Councilmember Knight inquired if they are mostly neighborhood kids. Mr. Angell 0 answered that most of them are from the neighborhood. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 2 Councilmember Knight questioned if they had been confronted. Laura Landes from the Sheriff's Department responded that the neighborhood kids might not be in violation of curfew. If crime watch neighbors called in there was no recourse as they were not violating any of the rules. Commissioner Lindahl stated the timeframe proposed would restrict free skating and the sliding hill in the winter, and other summer activities. He inquired about the time the incidents occurred according to the data Ms. Landes responded that there was difficulty in accessing the data because many parks did not have addresses, so documentation varied and she could not accurately pull up the data She indicated there were four parks that she could not obtain any data on. Mr. Angell stated that 50% of the issues were after dark until 11 :00 p.m. Ms. Landes added that she did question the deputies about the park. Typically most of the issues were juveniles in the park, suspicious vehicles, or parking after hours. Commissioner Boyer inquired about the location of the security light. Mr. Angell responded that it is between the parking lot and the playground. Councilmember Jacobson suggested as a first step a letter could be written to parents in 0 an adjacent 3-block area of the park. Mr. Angell stated that it is occurring at all the parks. Mr. Dickinson stated that in the past, the City had advertised it in the newsletter. Ms. Landes responded that they usually would take the minors home and speak with the parents. Mayor Gamache indicated he would like to tie it to the ordinance. He inquired about what occurred in the winter with a halfhour after sunset. Councilmember Knight answered that some went with school year/non-school year designation. Chair Masloski recommended it be season specific to not inhibit games. At the present time the city code is concrete. Councilmember Jacobson stated that if someone had a permit, they could exceed the normal park closing time. He inquired if there were other remedies. Councilmember Knight answered that problem areas could be targeted. Mr. Angell stated that the kids could not be seen from the park trees or houses. Mayor Gamache recommended it be tied to curfew laws. He recalled that a similar situation occurred at Red Oaks Park causing its closing. Mr. Haas responded that 0 curfews used to vary then it changed to one consistent time to ease in enforcement. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 3 Mayor Gamache recommended an increase in patrols could make it more difficult to have trouble. Another consideration is that trails are connected to the parks. Councilmember Knight suggested putting it in the newsletter. DISCUSS PROPOSED PARK IMPROVEMENTS/PARK COMPREHENSIVE PLAN/ 06-46D Chair Masloski reviewed the background stating that Mr. Haas highlighted four main parks and the type of improvements that are being recommended so that the parks are more multi-use year-round facilities. Councilmember Jacobson stated that irrigating would be extremely expensive. Mr. Dickinson indicated that they had not approached Oak Grove lately concerning ajoint effort. They might have changed their minds. Chair Masloski added that North Metro Soccer had expressed interest in helping with funding. Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern over the playground equipment at Kelsey- 0 Round Lake Park because he believed it would be a nature park. Chair Masloski responded it would be nice to have equipment if a conference room was installed for meetings. Councilmember Knight noted it would have to be staffed. Councilmember Jacobson added that there would be problems with vandalism. Mr. Dickinson stated that a security system would have to be included. Councilmember Orttel indicated the playground equipment would detract from the nature center. Chair Masloski explained that the park could be used for scholastic use. Councilmember Jacobson stated it would have to be heated in the winter, but indicated the idea was there. Commissioner Kowalewski inquired about possible DNR involvement. Commissioner Lindahl mentioned they had shown some interest. Mr. Haas stated that grant money could be available, and the DNR has been involved in similar efforts with this park in the past. Chair Masloski stated the park is rich in history. Councilmember Knight agreed, noting 0 that there were many Native American conflicts occurring on site. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes-June 14,2007 0 Page 4 Mayor Gamache added the Anoka Glacial Lake was also there leading to Taylors Falls, so he believes it is worth investigating. He noted there is no water or sewer there. Councilmember Orttel indicated that there was regional impact with settlers, so the DNR and the County might be interested. Mr. Haas stated the purpose of including it in the Proposed Park Improvements is that it could be plugged into the Park Dedication Fee formula Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern about the scale of the project with the interpretive center. Chair Masloski responded that the $500,000 with a matching grant could make it possible. Mr. Dickinson explained the park dedication fee has other factors and statistical analysis that are not exclusively tied to new growth. Chair Masloski mentioned that trends should be revisited. Mr. Dickinson indicated it should be done every five years. Councilmember Jacobson inquired about the water tower removal and asked if a new one be installed. Mr. Dickinson answered the City is attempting to sell it to a neighboring 0 community. Councilmember Jacobson stated there have been neighborhood meetings. Chair Masloski indicated that it would be green space, a playground, and a ball field. Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern that the rural reserve has not been included. Mr. Dickinson stated that Mr. Haas addressed it in his memo. Mr. Haas stated that in 2002, Council requested one more, large complex, and that the Rural Reserve would probably take care of itself. Mr. Dickinson added with the water, sewer and parks, to include the Rural Reserve area would skew the numbers. Chair Masloski stated that the Commission would be eager to be a part of the process when the Rural Reserve area occurs. Mayor Gamache inquired if the proposed location for the skate park at Sunshine Park is wooded. Mr. Haas stated that adjacent to it are woods, but there is a flat portion that could be paved. Mr. Dickinson noted there are sparse trees. Mayor Gamache expressed his desire to protect the neighbors. Mr. Haas responded that 0 they would still try to screen the neighbors. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 5 Mayor Gamache inquired about Hawk Ridge Park. Mr. Haas indicated that Public Works requested that the parking lots be paved. Overall, the Public Works Department requested that regional parks be paved. Councilmember Knight questioned the number of players from Oak Grove. Tom Hoopes from North Metro Soccer stated that about 4% of the players are from Oak Grove, but they supply 30% of the fields. He clarified that it is an Andover Club, but they cover several cities. Mayor Gamache inquired if Oak Grove would be willing to help. Mr. Haas stated the large park was not addressed because it is a large complex. Mr. Dickinson inquired about the kind of complex they are suggesting, to have it put into the analysis for computation. Councilmember Jacobson noted Andover is a young community that might have different needs through the years. Councilmember Orttel indicated the numberlhousehold decreased by 20%, which might require refiguring the needs. Mr. Dickinson agreed. He had seen it reflected in the decrease in building numbers. Mr. Hoopes inquired about the reason people are moving out of the community, and was the City is doing to keep the next generation as residents. Councilmember Orttel stated that jobs need to be created. Councilmember Knight stated there was a trend that a husband would live where his wife was from. Mayor Gamache stated that the jobs being created are at the community center, Target, and restaurants, but the housing values are high. There are not enough lower cost homes. Councilmember Jacobson cautioned against overbuilding, but a better mix housing stock could probably be achieved. Mr. Dickinson stated the population is at 45,000, but with the Rural Reserve it would be over 50,000. Mayor Gamache noted they want multi-use parks. He cautioned against having the Park Dedication Fees too high because it would increase the cost of the homes. Mr. Dickinson noted that if there was a purchase agreement he felt it could be safely put into the plan. It could mirror about 75% of Sunshine Park. Mr. Haas clarified it would be more like 50% of Sunshine Park. It could be a major complex. 0 Mr. Dickinson wants to see enough facilities for the city to run their own program, but he did not want to tie down land costs. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 6 Mr. Hoopes the Events Coordinator for North Metro Soccer stated that for 25 years they were the only soccer opportunity in Andover. They have been cooperating with Lacrosse and Football, but they are losing fields. In addition, overuse has destroyed the fields. He . believes the City is giving field use to another town. If existing fields could be made usable, it would have a great impact. He noted there were many irate parents because North Metro Soccer was not recognized in Andover. He indicated their program provided teams for kids ages four and up, while the Minnesota Revolution took the best players from their organization. Even so, the association continues to grow. He expressed concern that the best fields were going to Anoka teams, while Andover teams had to play in St. Francis where they had to pay for fields. They discontinued using Fox Meadows Park because it was mud, then were said to be abandoning fields. Mayor Gamache indicated irrigation and wells require considerable funding. He mentioned the topic offield usage fees. He asked ifboth associations met the criteria Chair Masloski responded that the issue was there were not enough fields, soccer had been left out, and admitted that the fields were not in good condition. However, he noted that the recognition did not go to another city. Mr. Hoopes stated that the residents knew which association was for Andover residents. 0 He indicated that if the association is to assist the City financially, they need some protection. Chair Masloski answered that it is a common problem, where an organization is not community-based, but advertised as a community program. He still believes the real issue is that there are not enough fields. Mr. Hoopes suggested that North Metro Soccer be recognized based on their history. He added the High School has recognized the association. Chair Masloski responded that the soccer governing body has no boundaries. Mr. Hoopes inquired if the City wants them to change their name. Chair Masloski answered it would clear up the confusion for resideJl1:$. He noted the City is providing fields, but not enough fields. Mr. Haas stated that the wear and tear occurs because they need days off, and yet they need to practice. Mr. Hoopes stated they could not use fields in Blaine because they had to be rented by the hour. He appreciated what the Commission is doing, but the concern is that the other association is getting fields with two players on a team. Chair Masloski stated he reviewed the numbers, and the Minnesota Revolution could actually receive more fields according to the percentage. Mr. Hoopes inquired where the numbers were from. Mr. Haas responded that it was from 0 the application. The final numbers could not be calculated until later. The City trusted the associations were being honest. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 7 Mr. Hoopes stated that the proposed amount to be recognized is 51 % required, but then it was changed to 51 % targeted. Mr. Haas indicated that they are trying to encourage the 50%. Councilmember Jacobson suggested going by the previous years numbers. Mayor Gamache agreed. He noted that 1/3 of the residents who play soccer go to Anoka Mr. Dickinson stated he would compute the numbers for one additional park and attach the cost. DISCUSS PARKS AND OPEN SPACE CHAPTERlPARK COMPREHENSIVE PLAN/06-46D Chair Masloski reviewed the background. In the previous meeting changes were suggested in the document. He asked if there were any questions. Councilmember Jacobson had one overall comment. An Open Space Committee was in the process of being formed. He suggested they go over the document in a joint meeting. He asked when the deadline is for the approval. Mr. Dickinson stated it is in three 0 months. Councilmember Orttel stated they are looking for land donations and land trusts. Mr. Dickinson responded they were interesting concepts for landowners. DISCUSS 2008-2012 CIP Chair Masloski stated playground equipment is needed, soccer facilities and a skate park. Because home sales are declining, the CIP is being decreased for needed things. At present, there is a negative balance; however if Hawk Ridge was removed, it would be balanced. Multi-use parks are a goal, and one method to help reach the goal might be to begin charging user fees and signage, possibly a referendum. Councilmember Jacobson indicated it is nice to have new buildings but he believes maintenance is being overlooked. He requested that repairs be itemized. Chair Masloski answered that the CIP enhances the parks, while the maintenance is done by Public Works. Mr. Dickinson stated that they are maintaining without irrigation. In addition, equipment is needed to bring four parks into ADA compliance. Councilmember Knight asked how many parks are not in the MUSA. Mr. Haas stated it 0 is 70%. Councilmember Jacobson wants to enhance what already exists. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 8 Councilmember Knight added if a standard farm well is a possibility. Commissioner Lindahl responded that Public Works would have to determine if it is possible. Mr. Dickinson stated if a farm well were permitted and certifiable as potable, a well would pay for itself at Sunshine Park. Commissioner Lindahl inquired about the reason it was not discussed in Public Works, because they understood the need. Chair Masloski clarified there is a concern it would drain water from other wells. Mayor Gamache stated it would be $100,000 to drill a well at Hawk Ridge, and $250,000 for a regular well. Mr. Dickinson indicated the well size might be limited, in addition to other agencies involvement such as the DNR, the Department of Health and others; residential wells might be affected because of the City's significant water use. He noted that irrigating Sunshine Park is very expensive. The housing market growth in the City is in the single digits from the previous 13-15%. Chair Masloski stated the ClP is bare bones. Baseball, soccer, and lacrosse need fields. As one commissioner, as all sports benefit, more people would support a referendum. 0 Councilmember Jacobson stated the seniors would not be able to support it on a fixed income. He inquired if two fields could be irrigated with a simple well at Hawk Ridge Park. Mr. Haas stated a building like the one at Prairie Knoll Park would be needed. Councilmember inquired if only a part could be potable. Councilmember Jacobson indicated that there was a savings on the lighting at Andover Station North. Mr. Dickinson answered the $17,000 savings went to the building per Council approval. The developer will be the largest contributor to the park. Chair Masloski stated that if playground equipment is installed, it needs to be protected, however he hoped it would also be aesthetically pleasing because of its high visibility to the community. Chair Masloski stated that Mr. Dickinson has given the impression it could be postponed until 2009; so finishing it immediately might not be as critical. Mayor Gamache suggested Andover Station North and Crooked Lake Boat Landing be completed in the ClP, and postpone the rest. Commissioner Lindahl stated Andover Station North was highly praised by the players. 0 Chair Masloski stated the skate parks are heavily used at all times of the day. The structures the City has would not last much longer. Councilmember Jacobson added the Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - June 14, 2007 Page 9 church probably would not allow the skate park located there indefinitely; a permanent home is needed. Chair Masloski indicated that in Champlin, 40 kids participated in their competitions with 4-5 of those kids going to camp put on by the city. The stereotype causes people to complain. Mr. Dickinson stated there are few problems in other communities if the skate park is visible. It has been very successful. Chair Masloski recommended the City speak with adjacent neighbors. Commissioner Lindahl stated that the noise comes from the banging of the boards. DISCUSS PARK NAMING POLICY Mr. Haas stated the Commission is interested in a contest. Mr. Dickinson stated that Andover Station North is not a park but an outlot, so it is not on park dedicated land. Commissioner Scott inquired the reason for funding it with park funds. Mayor Gamache responded that they want the area to look nicer. Mr. Dickinson stated if demographics change, it could be used in a different way. Parks 0 are designated parks forever. Councilmember Orttel added that designated parks could not be redone without a major procedure. Mayor Gamache stated that parks are usually named by the developer. Mr. Haas added that it is usually taken from the name of the plat. DISCUSS MEMORIAL PLAQUE POLICY Commissioner Kowalewski noted signs were put up at Sunshine Park in Fields 5 and 6. Mr. Haas stated that took place long ago commemorating people who passed away. Chair Masloski stated the Commission discussed the issue of a centralized location, or all over the City. Councilmember Jacobson noted it stated that there would be no scattering of ashes on park property. Was it necessary to state, when it was already against state law? He suggested 3 or 4 choices in style of plaques or benches. Councilmember Orttel mentioned the City should have a standard. Mr. Haas stated there are wood benches outside of City Hall. He admitted that concrete is more durable, however skateboarders love to skate on them because they prefer concrete. 0 Councilmember Jacobson inquired if it should state the Park Commission should address each request. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - June 14, 2007 Page 10 Councilmember Orttel questioned if there has been a request for it. Commissioner Lindahl stated they had a request for a tree. Commissioner Kowalewski added there was a request for a plaque at Prairie Knoll Park. Chair Masloski was in favor of a centralized location for memorials. It would solve several issues, people could tell the stories to their children. The concept is gaining popularity. Councilmember Knight stated that someone put a memorial on the building at Prairie Knoll Park. Councilmember Jacobson inquired if someone wanted to memorialize a famous person would they be allowed to. Chair Masloski answered that they included native born. Commissioner Butler stated he preferred using the word resident. DISCUSS ANDOVER STATION NORTH BALL FIELD FACILITY/STATUS OF PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT/07-16 0 Mayor Gamache stated the location of the playground is uncommon. Chair Masloski answered it could not be between fields because of the drainage issues. Councilmember Orttel noted the cost of protection is high. Mayor Gamache stated it includs 8-foot fences. Councilmember Jacobson inquired if the netting would need to be replaced in about 5 years. Chair Masloski answered they could last 8-10 years if they remove it each year. Mayor Gamache asked if there is any room near the small field in the East. Mr. Haas responded there is a trail. Councilmember Orttel believed the playground was expendable, and the quotes might not be meaningful. He asked if it is possible to put it near the parking lot. Mr. Haas stated the traffic makes it problematic. Mr. Dickinson referred to the last two pages of the packet. He inquired if protection was provided, would there be liability. Chair Masloski answered that the City should provide protection. Mayor Gamache inquired about the tree-like posts in the plan. Mr. Haas explained the 0 posts are tree-like with branches to hold the net up at a cost of $25,000. Chair Masloski clarified it is more, but not significantly more. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - June 14, 2007 Page 11 Councilmember Jacobson suggested pushing it out a year. Mr. Dickinson mentioned it could be reevaluated with the developer. 2008-2012 PARKS CIP Chair Masloski stated there was a $100,000 window to maintain for the CIP to be balanced, if not it would be a negative balance. Mayor Gamache stated the large item is Hawk Ridge Park. Mr. Haas noted that they tried to spread projects out, however they need $50-100,000 available. Mayor Gamache referred to the parking lot at Prairie Knoll Park. Mr. Haas responded that staff is recommending curb and gutter paving. Mayor Gamache recommended holding Hawk Ridge Park, and looking into irrigation wells. Chair Masloski stated they are still at a negative balance. Commissioner Lindahl noted 0 that they cannot be seeded without irrigation. Mayor Gamache stated the warming house and the parking lot are the expensive items. He inquired about a plan for the warming house. Mr. Haas answered it would be small. Hawk Ridge Park would be larger similar to Prairie Knoll Park. Commissioner Kowalewski asked if they are going to begin gathering volunteers. Mr. Haas answered that the numbers assume that Public Works has no time. If they had time to grade, there would be additional savings. Chair Masloski inquired if they wanted Hawk Ridge Park removed from the CIP. Mayor Gamache clarified he thought it should be trimmed down. Commissioner Scott mentioned that North Metro Soccer might be willing to help. Councilmember Jacobson stated they probably would want exclusive use of the fields. Commissioner Butler stated that they would be allocated proportionately. Chair Masloski noted that what North Metro Soccer said was accurate. Commissioner Kowalewski added especially if the Minnesota Revolution was taking their elite players. Councilmember Jacobson recommended that the numbers from the previous year be 0 used. Chair Masloski stated that hours were spent discussing the issue; the two associations do not like each other. Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - June 14, 2007 0 Page 12 Commissioner Kowalewski gave a similar example with football. Chair Masloski explained he wants Andover residents protected. Councilmember Jacobson asked if there is enough communication between Council and the Commission. Chair Masloski answered the first two years he felt lost, but he like the directives, and believes the joint meetings are helpful. Mayor Gamache indicated a fall meeting is needed to review the numbers. Chair Masloski stated there are also the factors of non-residents and tournaments. Mayor Gamache asked for clarification that soccer is paying for fields in St. Francis. Mr. Dickinson clarified that youth play for free. Mr. Haas added that if it is an out of town tournament, there is a fee. Councilmember Knight mentioned town baseball. Chair Masloski stated that there are open fields on Saturdays and Sundays. 0 Mr. Haas noted all the fields are booked up for tournaments each weekend. Councilmember Jacobson commented on Meadow Creek School. Chair Masloski indicated that the City could work cooperatively with them. He gave an example from Rochester, MN. He noted that the school district did not want to work with the City. Commissioner Kowalewski mentioned the associations could try to pool their money. Mr. Dickinson stated that concessions at Sunshine Park exceeded expectations. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Councilmember Knight, seconded by Mayor Gamache, to adjourn the meeting at 9:49 p.m. Motion carried on a 10-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Albee) vote. Respectfully submitted, Bridgette Blesi Recording Secretary 0