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HomeMy WebLinkAboutApril 2, 1998 -~ () () CITY of ANDOVER SPECIAL ANDOVER CITY COUNCIVPARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION JOINT MEETING - APRIL 2, 1998 MINUTES A Special Joint Meeting of the Andover City Council and Andover Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Commission Chairperson Al Grabowski on April 2, 1998, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Councilmembers absent: Commissioners present: Commissioner absent: Also present: ,- -, V Mayor Jack McKelvey, Mike Knight (arrived at 7:14; left at 10:10 p.m.), Ken Orttel Bonnie Dehn, John Kunza Brian Barringer, Dave Blackstad, Jeff Kieffer, Jim Lindahl (arrived at 7:32 p.m.), Dave O'Toole Tom Anderson Parks Department, Kevin Starr Public Works Superintendent, Frank Stone Assistant City Engineer, Todd Haas City Administrator, Richard Fursman Others DISCUSS COMMUNITY EDUCATION PROGRAM Mr. Fursman explained the City supports the community education program through the school district, giving $57,495 in 1998. The question is what does this money provide the citizens of Andover. Steve Keer Community Education District 11 - presented a memo and the 1997 annual report for the Andover, Oak View and Crooked Lake community schools that described the programs offered, number of participants and number of groups using the schools. The idea behind the program is a joint effort between the municipalities and the school district. The participants in the program pay for the costs of the instructors, supplies and materials. The dollars that the school district and cities put in go primarily for the Staff and those people who set up the programs. Their program consists of two primary components -- after-school enrichment for the children and the summer program. The City's contribution has remained about the same for the last four or five years with only a 1- to 2- percent increase each year. Currently they have received about $360,000 from the various municipalities to run the programs, and the school district pays about $900,000. Most of the after- school participants are from Andover. They get some participants from other cities for the summer program; however, the majority of them are Andover residents as well. The growth of the program is dictated by the people available to set them up. :J (Councilmember Knight arrived at this time, 7: 14 p.m.) '- ' -/ \ '- ~; " Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Joint Meeting Minures-Apri/2,1998 Page 2 , ./ (Community Education Program, Continued) Mr. Keer estimated the City of Ramsey contributed $20,000 in 1997; Coon Rapids, $95,000; Ham Lake, $7,000; and Anoka, about $37,000. The cost for the Staff has been split between the municipality and the school district. There is a discrepancy in the amount given per capita because individual cities made the decision on the level of service they want for their children. Andover has a very high participation rate in the programs. Chairperson Grabowski stated one issue is that the school district uses the City's park facilities at no cost, but the athletic organizations are charged $9 an hour to use the school facilities. The atWetic associations do not have to pay that fee in other cities. Mr. Keer explained the City of Coon Rapids has chosen to pay that fee for those groups. Whenever the school facilities are being used, someone must be there. The $9 per hour is merely cost recovery when they have to bring someone else in to keep the facility open. No one is charged when there is Staff on duty. He also noted that they haven't had an increase in their source of funding for over ten years, and they are getting stretched. If they didn't have Andover's participation in the program, they would have to hire more people to cover hours in the building so the community can have access to it, plus there would be a reduction in services. With the funding they also give assistance to those families who can't afford to be in the activities, cover the cost of an interpreter and help children with special needs. The after-school program is important, as it is a setting with adult role models from 3 to 6 p.m. when children are 1J10st at risk in the community. Commissioner O'Toole agreed with the community school program, but the funding for community education is in the Park budget and is included in the total when the Council looks at the total amount of funding for parks each year. That line item can have a detrimental effect on the total Park budget allocation. He suggested the line item be separated from the Park budget. Mr. Fursman felt .that option could be explored. (Commissioner Lindahl arrived at this time, 7:32 p.m.) DISCUSS THE USE OF TAX INCREMENT FINANCING Mr. Fursman explained the use of tax increment financing dollars is currently an allowable use for various park improvements. Right now there are no excess TIF. Any excess funds will depend primarily on how quickly the commercial park develops. The tax rates are in flux, the TIF laws are changing, and those dollars will have to be weighed with other infrastructure needs. There has been increasing pressure for additional traffic lights plus the development of a commercial site south of the WDE site. The more development that occurs in the commercial area, the greater the likelihood 'that there will be an increment surplus in the future. That pool of increment will continue until the year 2012. No further direction was given. \. / \-J / Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Joint Meeting Minutes -April 2, 1998 Page 3 DISCUSS ORDINANCE 10, SECTION 9.07 ENFORCEMENT - HAMILTON SQUARE PARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS Mr. Haas reviewed the ordinance provision on detennining market value and enforcing the 10 percent requirement for park dedication. Chairperson Grabowski explained the Commission's concerns with the outcomes of park dedication for the Timber River Estates and Hamilton Square developments. For Timber River Estates, the Commission's position is that they didn't ask for the river lot for a park; they were told by the developer that this is where the park will be. Plus the detennination that the park land along the river was worth more than interior land was made six months later. Had that been proposed originally, the Commission might have done something differently. Their biggest'[ear is that this sets a precedent for other developers. On the Hamilton property the final value is significantly less than the original appraisal, and the City had to give back about $15,000. The ordinance allows developers to make a proposal for cash in lieu ofland for park dedication. If the Commission does not agree, then an appraiser is hired. If developers are then allowed to challenge that appraisal, the ordinance will have to be changed. Otherwise, the ordinance should be enforced. Councilmember Orttel noted he was the one to question the value of the park along the river in Timber River Estates when it came before the Council. Also, it is the Commission that makes the " determination of the location of the park land, not the developer. The appraisals are to be based on vacant land. He felt the appraisers used the wrong comparables for the Hamilton property. The City owns a number of commercial parcels with sewer and water, which is considered fully developed, that have sat vacant for ten years at a price of$0.65 per square foot. The Hamilton property was originally appraised at $0.90 per square foot, which he felt is not a true value based on Andover's own commercial lots. Another issue to consider is that because of the way the City's stonn water system was done, the development of many ofthe remaining parcels in Andover require on-site stonn water retention ponding which utilizes a great deal of high land that would otherwise have been developed. Some cities are not requiring park dedication on commercial land because they generate no park use. As is without an appeal, the City has a monopoly, which will not hold up in court. There was considerable discussion on this item. It was pointed out that both situations, one a PUD plat, one a commercial development, were relatively new types of developments for the City The Council generally felt that the ordinance must be amended to add a provision allowing the developer to appeal an appraisal and/or bargain in good faith. Possibly both the developer and the City should agree to hire a specific appraiser. Possibly commercial property will have to be treated differ~ntly than residential developments. DISCUSS SNOWMOBILES ,I Chairperson Grabowski noted there has been severe damage done to some of the trails by snowmobiles with studs. The concern is that that damage will cause the tar to degrade and chip in the coming years. The ordinance does not allow snowmobiles in the parks, but it does not keep them off the trails. '- j ,_.J \ / Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Joint Meeting Minutes - April 2, 1998 Page 4 (Snowmobiles, Continued) There was discussion on the existing City and state laws, their application to those trails along county roads, and the issue of enforcement. The Council noted the intent was that there would be no snowmobiles on the trails, and the ordinance should be changed to reflect that. It was hoped that the zero tolerance policy of the Sheriff's Department would help the situation. Staff also noted that the intent is to keep the trails along Hanson Boulevard plowed so they can be used by pedestrians. That should also keep the snowmobiles off those trails. Another thing that may help is completing the snowmobile trail routes to direct them to the state trail. Mr. Haas stated he will hold a Snowmobile Task Force meeting to write language for amending the ordinance to eliminate snowmobiles from the City's trail system, then bring it back to the City Council. DISCUSS NEED FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN FOR NEW PARK IMPROVEMENTS - CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT REPLACEMENT PLAN FOR EXISTING PARKS - AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT AND HOW IT AFFECTS CITIES Chairperson Grabowski stated there is no plan in place for replacing equipment which is wearing out , J or which no longer meets the safety standards or which does not meet ADA requirements, nor is there the funding to do so. A commitment is needed to budget for these upgrades. Last year some of the park dedication funds were used to replace equipment, but those funds will not always be available. They are looking for $30,000 to $40,000 each year to replace equipment and to upgrade the parks. Mr. Starr stated they maintain 43 parks, 28 of which have equipment. Discussion was on the types of parks needed, relating to the demographics of the neighborhoods, the ADA laws, the new policy of developing parks before people move into a development, and the use of some of the parks. No action was taken. DISCUSS PUBLIC WORKS MAINTENANCE RESOURCES (EQUIPMENT AND LABOR) - SALE OF EXISTING PARKS ,_ J Mr. Haas stated the Commission wants to make sure there is enough Staff and equipment to maintain the parks. Chairperson Grabowski stated the City has added a number of parks, the Sunshine Park complex and miles of trails, but the resources haven't been added to support them. Mr. Starr stated they have barely been able to maintain the system, but they will not be able to keep up if there is not an increase in Staff and equipment. The last addition to the Staff for Parks was in 1992, prior to Sunshine Park. It takes one person each day to maintain that park alone. They do get four individuals for summer help and some of the mowing is contracted. He provided the Council with a report on Parks and an outline of the various issues. Mr. Starr stated the City owns 62 to 66 parks. They maintain 43 of them, but there are many areas where the City is liable. In discussing the parcel along Tulip, the Council felt it would be needed if '. ~j " ) Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Joint Meeting / Minutes - April 2, 1998 Page 5 (public Works Maintenance Resources, Continued) the road is ever straightened out. The Council asked for a list of thoseCity-owned parcels and a determination if they were tax forfeit or were land dedicated for park. Mr. Starr noted the Council has already discussed the money going to the school district. He felt it will help to have that as a separate line item, as the bottom line for parks has been inflated bec~use of that. Chairperson Grabowski didn't agree that there is a great need for additional ball fields at this time. It is planned that two more soccer fields or ball fields will be constructed in the new park in Shadowbrook with future plans for other fields at Prairie Knoll. \ .' Discussion was on tournaments held at the City Hall complexes. Mr. Starr stated their budget cannot support having two Public Works Staff 12 hours each day of the tournaments. The proposal for this summer is that the fields will be ready for play in the mornings, then they will return about noon to groom the fields again. They cannot use people under 18 because they would not be allowed to operate motorized vehicles. They also run into a problem with the union if they would hire part-time people to work specifically during the tournaments. Chairperson Grabowski expressed fiustration at the proposal, as they were not aware that Staff would not be available at all times. If they had been aware of it and the issue is funding, they could have raised their fees or found ways to resolve the problem. His concern was that the fields need to be dragged after every second or third game. The State and National tournament rules require it after every third game. He felt this is going to be unacceptable. The Commission then asked that the Council give serious consideration to hiring another Public Works maintenance worker for parks. DISCUSS CITY-WIDE TRAIL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM Mr. Haas reported on the direction of the trail development program and the need for a budget line item for maintenance and improvement. Trails are being requested in new developments and along major roads to get from one point to another. Commissioner O'Toole suggested trails should not be considered a park item. It should be under the transportation system, especially those along main thoroughfares; so it doesn't impact the park budget. Chairperson Grabowski also noted the county's plans for a trail along Bunker Lake Boulevard to the Rum River, noting the City will have to have better communication with them and plan such projects jointly. No action was taken. DISCUSS HILLS OF BUNKER LAKE TRAIL ACCESS AND USE OF VEHICLES BY THE NEIGHBORS ./ Mr. Stone gave the history behind the use of park property by the neighbors off 140th Lane NW in the Hills of Bunker Lake. They were given verbal permission to use it by Public Works to get to their back yards, thinking it was a sewer and water easement between the houses. There wer!l no '- ) \ ) Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Joint Meeting ,. Minutes - April 2, 1998 Page 6 (Hills of Bunker Lake Trail Access - Use of Vehicles by Neighbors, Continued) garages in the back at that time. The City property is 20 feet wide, and the proposed tarred trairwill be 10 feet wide. Mr. Haas stated the neighbors would like to use the trail with motorized vehicles to access their back yards. The person on the west would have enough room to construct his own driveway. The person on the east has a tuck-under garage on the back side of the house, and there is only six feet between the City's property and the house. It would also be difficult for the person on the east to get to his back yard without using the trail because of the landscaping. The City has given private access through a park in the past, notably on South Coon Creek Drive by the -golf course. Chairperson Grabowski stated the Commission's concern is the City's liability and the potential for an accident with pedestrians and motorized vehicles using the same path. After discussing this further, it was suggested that the person to the east would be given permission to use about 12 feet of the park land to access the back of his property. The remaining portion of the park land would be used for the City's bituminous trail, plus it should be fenced to prevent private motorized vehicles from using it. A split rail fence was suggested which would run from the street to the gate by the creek. It was noted the person to the west does have enough room in the yard to access the back without using the City's park land. It was agreed Staff would ask for a legal opinion '\ on this suggestion. J THE CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT OF KELSEY-ROUND LAKE PARK Mr. Haas stated Kelsey Park, which is 120 acres, is the largest City park and is intended to be a passive nature park. Right now the park is split in two with a parking lot and trail to the north, plus some trails to the south. Phase 2 would consist of a trail to connect the north and south, which would have to go through a wetland area. That area would either have to be filled or a board walk floated over it. Both are expensive options. Staff has requested a $50,000 matching grant from the Minnesota DNR, anticipating the project would be completed by the end of 1999. Last year the City was unsuccessful in getting a grant. Phase 3 of the park development is to do more informational items such as signage in the park about the history of it, some playground equipment, etc. If the City receives the grant, the additional funding of approximately $100,000 to $150,000 would be required. No action was taken. DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF PARK PATROL ) , / Commissioner Grabowski explained there has been quite a bit of damage and vandalism done in the parks and on the trails. The City is getting to the size where it may need park patrol as a deterrent to vandalism. Commissioner Blackstad talked about the vandalism done to the Pleasant Oaks park last August, that three children were caught, but the City will not pursue it because they were under age 14. He expressed frustration that there have been no consequences, yet it is known who did it. The Council noted that prosecutions are done by the county. They suggested Attorney Hawkins be asked to look into it further. , ) '. .-J \ Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Joint Meeting Minutes - April 2, 1998 Page 7 (park Patrol, Continued) Councilmember Orttel questioned the effectiveness of the park patrol in a City this size. Councilmember Knight suggested the local people adopt the park and trails in terms oflooking out for them, similar to the Crime Watch Program. Mayor McKelvey pointed out the additional expenses that would be incurred with a park patrol such as radios, squad cars, etc. He felt it would be better to talk with the Sheriff's Department about hiring another Community Service Officer. The Commission generally agreed to that suggestion. DISCUSS CDBG FUNDING \ Commissioner O'Toole asked if there is a way to allocate more CDBG funding to provide ADA accessibility to the parks without hurting the public service pools. He felt the City should be talking with the county in an attempt to get more CDBG funding. Andover's share is quite small comP!lred to Anoka's, which has an equivalent population. Mr. Fursman noted the federal government only allows a total of 15 percent of the county's CDBG funding can go toward social service agencies. Andover is putting about one-half of its share toward those agencies. Other communities are allocating a much smaller percentage. The Council suggested pursuing an increase in the amount of CDBG funding it gets from the county. / (Councilmember Knight left at this time, 10;10 p.m.) DISCUSS DEVELOPMENT OF TAX FORFEIT PARCELs/SOUTH SIDE OF LANDFILL Mr. Fursman stated the City is still working with the State on the final details to take possession of the tax forfeit parcels south of the WDE landfill site. The State wants to know the intent for the use of the land, and they have indicated it would be commercial use. That portion of the land that is unusable for development could be made into ball fields. Chairperson Grabowski stated the Commission has not been made aware of these proposals. Mr. Fursman stated the proposals are conceptual, as they are trying to get through the State requirements. Councilmember Orttel noted the item has not been discussed by the Council either. No action was taken. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:20 p.m. '- R"PoctfullY'Ubk ~~hLC ,"</L Recording Secretary