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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 25, 2000 o o o o o CITY of ANDOVER PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - JULY 25,2000 MINUTES The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting ofthe Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Chairperson Jay Squires on July 25, 2000, 7:01 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Chairperson Jay Squires, Mark Hedin, Larry Dalien, Maynard Apel, Dean Daninger, Tim Kirchoff, and Douglas Falk. Commissioners absent: There were none. Also present: City Planner, John Hinzman Zoning Administrator, Jeff Johnson Others APPROVAL OF MINUTES. July 11, 2000 Motion by Apel, seconded by Hedin, the Minutes be approved as submitted. Motion . carried on a 7-ayes, O-nay, O-absent vote. PUBLIC HEARING: ORDINANCE NO. 240, FIREARMS DISCHARGE. Zoning Administrator Jeff Johnson explained that the Planning and Zoning Commission has been asked to hold a public hearing to amend Ordinance No. 240 - An Ordinance Regulating the Discharge of Firearms and Bows. He mentioned that a letter dated April 17,2000 prompted the City to take necessary action to review and draft an amendment to this ordinance. He reviewed the changes that have been recommended based on past discussions with staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned if metro goose hunting is allowed every year. Mr. Johnson stated that indeed metro goose hunting is allowed every year. Motion by Daninger, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 7:04 p.m. Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nay, O-absent vote. o C) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes -July 25, 2000 Page 2 '~ Richard Pearson, 2862 South Coon Creek Drive, stated that he has experienced deer being shot within 30 feet of his residence. He mentioned that it is a hazard for anyone to be in his backyard during the hunting season. He explained that there have been times in the past when he has specifically asked hunters not to hunt, however it didn't seem to make a difference. Mr. Pearson stated that in the past year he has called the sheriffs department twice. He mentioned that he has no problem with hunting or bow hunting, however in the area near his residence it is not safe for many reasons one of those being that there is a school nearby. He stated that he believes it makes sense to move the hunting boundary up to 161 51 Avenue. Chair Squires stated that what is being proposed would not allow the discharge of any hunting firearms below 161'1 Avenue. Steven , 14909 University Avenue, stated that he currently hunts on his grandma's land. He mentioned that there are areas in the City where hunting should not be permitted, however the area where his grandma lives wouldn't harm anyone or anything. ,.- '\ '--~ Commissioner Hedin questioned the location of where Mr. (Steven) was talking about. City Planner John Hinzman pointed out the location, consisting of 80 acres south ofthe Meadowlark Heights subdivision. Rosella Sonsteby, 4151 141'1 Ave NW, mentioned concerns regarding the metro goose hunting season. She also stated that she hopes the amendment won't affect her right to own a firearm. Larysa Arndt, 2381 l55th Lane NW, stated that she believes that the biggest problem is with many hunters not following the rules. She mentioned that recently she witnessed a IS-year old individual hunting a woodchuck when there is currently no hunting season. She mentioned that she doesn't believe it is right to tell people what they can and can't do with their land, however with all the development that is taking place discharging firearms doesn't seem very safe. Ms. Arndt stated that she had heard an individual from the Woodland Homes area was shot with pellets while on the roof of his home. She stated that the petition consists of signatures from 2-3 neighborhoods in the area. She mentioned that she supports no discharge of firearms south of 16151 Avenue. Tony Howard, 2119 15 6th Avenue, questioned the distance from the property line that a bow and arrow and/or shotgun can be shot. Mr. Johnson stated that the distance for firearms is 500 feet, and 150 feet for bow and arrow. '- ) Mr. Howard stated that it is possible for a hunter to be at the back of the property line and still be within 150 feet from the house. He questioned ifit would be possible to extend r '" r " \) U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 3 \ , ) the minimum distance allowed in order to be sure the arrow and/or pellet remains on the same property as where it was shot from. Bill Burner, , stated they have hunted for a number of years and have never had an accident, nor has anyone ever complained about our hunting techniques. He mentioned that he was happy to see that the City is not totally eliminating goose hunting. He stated that most of those opposed are complaining of hunters not abiding by the rules and regulations, and therefore doesn't feel it is right to punish those that do abide by the rules. He explained that anywhere where he has hunted in the past has been on land that is at least 1000 feet from the closest property. Mr. Burner mentioned that he lives north of 161 51 Avenue and during the regular hunting season he makes a habit to send his children out to play in orange. He agreed that it is important that hunters are following the law. He mentioned that he only hunts geese during the early season, since there really are no geese to hunt during the late season. He suggested extending the hunt into the regular season since the goose population is continuing to grow substantially. He mentioned that he hopes it is possible to prohibit the discharge of firearms south of 161 51 Avenue. () Don Bauers, 14570 Jonquil Street NW, suggested allowing hunters to also hunt geese during the regular season. He mentioned that he believes the DNR would support the idea 100 percent. He also mentioned that he hopes the pellets, etc. would not go beyond the property line on parcels of land that are 10 acres or more. Dawn Holmberg, 2975 151st Lane NW, stated that she has lived there for over five years and has enjoyed every minute of it, however never imagined that there would be hunters hunting right beyond her property line. She mentioned that there have been times where she has witnessed hunters actually shooting an animal just beyond the property line. She explained that she doesn't feel that allowing the discharge of firearms is safe with the number of children and pets in their community. Peggy Finkowski, 15673 Kiowa Street, stated that she believes in the safety of the residents, however mentioned that she hopes her son would be able to continue his new sport of archery if the amendment is approved. Mr. Johnson explained that archery would be permitted if the amendment to the ordinance is approved. ,,--) Commissioner Apel mentioned that he believes that archery should be permitted for students. He stated that this is a hunting ordinance and that there should be language in the ordinance to state that archery is permitted. (j (J Regular Andover Planni~g and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 4 " \ \~-"') Mr. Johnson explained that archery is classified as a recreational activity and would be allowed. Lee Packer, 3074 161 st Avenue, explained that their property is at the comer of 161 st Avenue and Round Lake Blvd. He questioned what the commission's goal is in changing the ordinance. He mentioned that there are hunters out there not following the rules and regulations, so it would make more sense to solve the problem with enforcement than to take away other hunters privileges. He mentioned that they have put up with all the development surrounding their property, however he is not willing to put up with having their hunting privileges taken away. A member from the audience stated that she has spoke with a conservation officer recently who informed her that there is only one officer to handle the whole area. She stated that all one can do is hope that he will arrive in time to witness the individual breaking the law. C) Debra Packer, 3074 161 st Avenue, stated that they have lived in their house for 10 years, which is on family owned land. She explained that they hunt safely and are requesting the line be moved just to the south of 161 st Avenue. She mentioned that there are no homes in the area that would be opposed to the idea. Mr. Burner questioned if it would be possible to come up with other solutions to the problem. He suggested having all hunters register on a yearly basis stating what land they plan to hunt, therefore ifthere are complaints they can be addressed more effectively. He mentioned that there are other solutions to the problem than amending the ordinance. There was no other public input. Motion by Falk, seconded by Daninger, to close the public hearing at 7:38 p.m. Motion carried on a 7-ayes, a-nay, a-absent vote. Commissioner Apel stated that he can understand some of the views residents have, however it would be too difficult to draw a line and accommodate everyone. He stated that he understands that the goose population is increasing and in turn would support extending the goose season to accommodate those areas. He mentioned that he would have to support what staff is recommending. '- ) Commissioner Hedin mentioned that he is a hunter, however he would have to support drawing the line at 161 st Avenue. He stated that it is important for the City to look at the safety and well being for the residents and children being affected. He mentioned that he could support the map as it is presented before the commission. o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 5 f '. " ' -~ Commissioner Falk stated that he agrees with Commissioner's Hedin and Ape!. He mentioned that even though there are hunters out there who practice safe hunting it still becomes a safety issue. Mr. Packer questioned the commission regarding his safety on an issue discussed at a previous meeting regarding a communication tower. He mentioned that his safety was a concern then, however it didn't seem to affect the commission's decision. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that he also supports the way the map is presented before the commission. He explained that the City is moving outward and therefore it is necessary to move the line up to 161'1 Avenue. He mentioned that as a resident himself he also wouldn't like anyone hunting next to his property. He also mentioned that there will probably be a time when no hunting will be allowed within the City limits. He stated that he has a problem with allowing goose hunting, however is willing to accept what is being proposed. , . '---) Commissioner Dalien stated that he supports Commissioner Kirchoffs views. He stated that he has hunted in the past, however hasn't the past few years since it is becoming more and more of a hassle. He explained that since the City is expanding and moving outward than so does the line need to move outward. He stated that for now it seems to make sense to allow bow hunting and goose hunting in order to control the population. He explained to Ms. Rosella that her concerns are still listed in the current ordinance. Commissioner Daninger stated that he is sure that everyone that spoke practices safe hunting, however there are unsafe hunters out there. He mentioned that he doesn't want to have to worry about his children outside during the hunting season. He stated that he supports the proposal of 161 51 Avenue acting as the line. Chair Squires stated that using 161 5t Avenue as the line for hunting makes sense since it has been used in other circumstances. He explained that cities grow in the form of a bullseye, which is being proved in Mr. Packer's situation since everything around him is being developed. He stated that he supports the proposal staff is recommending. Commissioner Ape! suggested allowing goose hunting during the regular season in addition to the early and late seasons. Chair Squires questioned what the dates are for the early, regular and late seasons. A member from the audience stated the dates ofthe beginning of each season. . \ 'J Mr. Johnson mentioned that if early goose season is extended into the regular season it would end up interfering with deer hunting. o U Regular Andover Plan~mg and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 6 , , Chair Squires questioned the dates of deer hunting. Commissioner Daninger questioned if there wouldn't be a way to distinguish a goose hunter from a deer hunter. Chair Squires suggested extending goose hunting into the regular season up until the day before deer hunting. Commissioner Apel suggested if goose hunting would be extended into the regular season up until deer hunting, then it would need to be stated in the ordinance. A member from the audience explained that goose hunters don't carry slugs, therefore it would be easy to distinguish the difference between a deer hunter and a goose hunter. Commissioner Ape! agreed with Chair Squires that it would be best if both weren't going on at the same time to eliminate any confusion. ; \ \.,- ~I Commissioner Hedin questioned if there is a state law that deer hunters must wear orange where as goose hunters are not required. Chair Squires mentioned that based on what many residents stated not all hunters follow the rules and regulations in wearing the appropriate color. Mr. Johnson explained that the map is part of the ordinance. He mentioned that the ordinance can be amended along with the map to state the goose hunting extension. Commissioner Apel suggested that when the motion is made that it state to extend the goose-hunting season to November 1. Commissioner Hedin suggested the ordinance state that goose hunting is legal during season. Commissioner Apel stated that legalizing goose hunting during the entire season won't solve the problem of guns being out there during deer hunting. Commissioner Hedin made a motion, seconded by Commissioner Apel, to approve Ordinance No. 240A, however further discussion followed. , ) Chair Squires stated he is opposed to extending goose hunting to be allowed during the entire season. He explained that he feels it is necessary a line be drawn between goose hunting and deer hunting, for example using November 1 as the cut off date. () U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes-July 25,2000 Page 7 r- '\ \...-J Motion by Hedin, seconded by Apel, to forward to the City Council a recommendation to approve Ordinance No. 240A, and to include a provision that hunting is allowed in any legal goose season during the restricted zone, an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 240 - regulating the discharge of firearms and bows within the City of Andover. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, 3-nay, O-absent vote. Chair Squires stated that this item would be considered at the August 15,2000 City Council meeting. Commissioner Hedin mentioned that there is only one DNR officer, therefore it would be easy for him to distinguish if a hunter is legal or not. PUBLIC HEARING: LOT SPLIT (LS 00-09) - SPLIT THE EASTERN 2.5 ACRES FROMA 5.0ACREPARCEL-16635 VERDINSTREETNW-BRIAN BOURN. Mr. Hinzman stated that the item will be on the agenda for the August 8, 2000 Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, since further applications are needed to process the requested lot split. ,.~ '" \._.J VARIANCE: (VAR 00-16) - VARY FROM ORDINANCE 8, SECTION 4.04- FRONTAGE ON A PUBLIC ROAD & SECTION 6.02, LOT WIDTH AT FRONT SETBACK - NE ~ OF THE NW ~ OF SECTION 12 - PETER WOJCIECHOWSKI. City Planner John Hinzman presented the request for a variance to Ordinance 8, to allow construction of a home on a landlocked 40-acre parcel owned by Peter and Marian Wojciechowski. He mentioned that all applicable ordinances would be required to be met if the application is approved. Mr. Hinzman explained that the City Council reviewed potential changes to the Zoning Ordinance to allow construction on parcels not meeting minimum frontage and lot width requirements at the July 18, 2000 meeting. The City Council agreed with the Planning and Zoning Commissions recommendation not to change the existing ordinance, but to consider variances if a hardship can be proven. Mr. Hinzman explained that the applicant acquired the property nearly 15 years ago. He stated that a 33-foot wide, 14 mile long private easement acquired in the mid 1980's allows access to Ward Lake Drive. He mentioned that the applicant states the following as a hardship: frontage ordinance landlocks property. Mr. Hinzman reviewed the comments from staff as listed in the staff report. LJ Commissioner Kirchoff questioned what staff considered to be a hardship. Regular Andover Plan~l/~ and Zoning Commission Meeting U Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 8 " ') '--./ Commissioner Daninger questioned the property owners of three specific lots. Mr. Hinzman stated that the family owns the property in question. Chair Squires questioned if they are vacant parcels land. Mr. Hinzman explained that two of the parcels are vacant. Peter Wojciechowski, the applicant, gave a brief history of the land and how it became divided into separate lots. He mentioned that there is a piece of property adjacent to their land that is currently not for sale. Mr. Wojciechowski, explained that a 30-foot easement was put on the property in order to make the land useable, however it was unknown at the time that we wouldn't be able to use the property anyway. He explained that he is requesting a variance to build a single- family dwelling on the site. He mentioned that the land on the south, north, and east of the site is all wetlands, therefore extremely useless property. He stated that they have found it to be a hardship on the property since it is not economic. ~.) Mr. Wojciechowski stated that the driveway wouldn't go anywhere and would meet all the requirements for emergency regulations. He mentioned that it would not be a threat for the planning and zoning of the City, nor is it an issue to subdivide. Commissioner Dalien questioned when Mr. Wojciechowski became aware that he would not be able to build on the property. Mr. Wojciechowski explained that he realized about 6 months ago. Commissioner Dalien questioned if the County Assessor has been taxing this lot as a buildable lot. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that they have been paying approximately $1200 in taxes. Commissioner Dalien questioned if he intends to build the house himself or if someone else will build. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that his daughter intends to build. Commissioner Daninger questioned if the lot to the south is for sale. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that it is not for sale. Commissioner Daninger questioned if the lawyer from years ago didn't make the mistake. Mr. Wojciechowski explained that at the time he was not aware of any problems. , \ ) Regular Andover Plan~ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 9 C_J Commissioner Daninger asked Mr. Wojciechowski ifhe has spoken with the attorney in charge of disposing the estate and whether or not the attorney has admitted to a mistake. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that he has not spoken with the attorney. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that a relative owns land to the north, and he is aware that it is landlocked and isn't concerned since he only uses it for bow hunting. Commissioner Hedin questioned if the land to the north were ever developed would they then have access to Mr. Wojciechowski's property. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that he doesn't believe it would ever be an issue since he has spoken with the landowner. Commissioner Hedin questioned if the commission can give a variance on the driveway width so it can be a narrow road but wide enough to meet the emergency standards. Commissioner Hedin questioned if a long cul-de-sac would be sufficient. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that a cul-de-sac would be fine. Mr. Hinzman stated the city has not looked favorably upon long cul-de-sacs for limited service in the past. F ) \. _ Chair Squires questioned if it would ever be possible for a developer to choose to divide up the land into 15 separate lots. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that if that were to happen then they would have to come before the Planning and Zoning Commission once again. He mentioned that he is proposing the land to be used strictly for a single-family residence. Chair Squires questioned the possibilities of using 1 70th Avenue and Marigold Street in Holmberg Addition as an access point. Mr. Hinzman gave an overview pertaining to providing a street stub for future development in 1990. He stated that there was research done on whether or not to put a road through, however it never went through since there would have been a loss of a lot and undue to hardship. Commissioner Hedin questioned if the land to the east would also be landlocked. Mr. Hinzman stated that he is unsure, however believes the land is joined and not landlocked. Mr. Wojciechowski explained that there is no possible way to get back to the property through that area. CJ () () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 10 ~) Commissioner Hedin stated that to keep the land rural would mean that one would not develop the land. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that he is planning to keep the land open ground, with few if any neighbors surrounding the area. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that he hates to see compromising on an ordinance in any situation. Commissioner Apel stated that the Council has opened the door on variances in the past. He mentioned that he feels the City should try to figure out a way to approve the request since the landowner has been paying taxes on 40 acres. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that since it is buildable land, he feels it would be difficult to say they can't build on this lot. Commissioner Falk questioned what will happen to all the landlocked parcels that exist around the City if we are going to deny them building on the land. Mr. Hinzman gave some explanations as to what can be done with the landlocked parcels of land that currently exist around the City. .- '1 '-../ Commissioner Dalien stated that the door has been opened since there are has been past variances granted due to hardship. He stated that he supports recommending the variance only because of the size of the land. Commissioner Falk stated that he would support the variance as long as the 30-foot easement is upgraded. He questioned how the easement is now. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that that wouldn't be a problem. Mr. Hinzman stated that there are provisions that would need to be abided by, however they are listed. Mr. Wojciechowski stated that the standard width is 20 feet for fire/emergency vehicles, however he is recommending 30 feet. Chair Squires mentioned that in a previous meeting there was a 33-foot easement granted which looked like a flag, however variances can be granted. He stated that the attorney made the mistake many years ago, and those issues should be dealt with prior to coming before the City. '-, lJ Commissioner Apel stated that he is not concerned about the mistake made with the attorney, but instead concerned with the City setting a precedent when variances are granted. o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 11 , ' , , 'J Mr. Wojciechowski stated that he agrees flag lots should not be approved. He gave reason why he believes this parcel of land is not a flag lot. He explained that a hardship does playa role since the property can't be used. Commissioner Dalien stated that when looking at the map it appears to be similar to a past situation. Commissioner Daninger stated that the attorney has created the hardship not the City. He agreed with Chair Squires that the issue is with the attorney even though it took place fifteen years ago. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that he can't believe that there is 40 acres out there that can't be developed. Commissioner Apel mentioned that the attorney won't be able to solve the problem. Commissioner Falk stated that it is possible to grant the variance. r \ U Motion by Apel, seconded by Dalien, to forward to the City Council a recommendation drawn up by staff to approve a variance to Ordinance 8 to allow construction of a home on a landlocked 40 acre parcel o\\-ned by Peter and Marian Wojciechowski located in the NE y.. of the NW y.. of Section 12, since it is in accordance with the ordinance. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, 3-nays, a-absent vote. Chair Squires stated that this item would be considered at the August 15,2000 City Council meeting. OTHER BUSINESS. Mr. Hinzman briefed the Planning and Zoning Commission on the outcome of the issues that were pending with the City Council. He also gave a brief overview of items that will be up for discussion at the next Planning Commission meeting. Mr. Hinzman reminded the Planning and Zoning Commission of a workshop on August 8, 2000. ADJOURNMENT. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Daninger, to adjourn. Motion carried on 7-ayes, a-nays, a-absent vote. The meeting was adjourned at 8:55 p.m. CJ r'. V Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - July 25, 2000 Page 12 .'- '. - , -' Respectfully submitted, Sara Beck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc '. ') ./ r:)