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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMay 23, 2000 o o o o o ~ (lQ) Wu.tt:tn 0-/3-CO CITY of ANDOVER PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING -MAY 23,2000 MINUTES The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Chair Jay Squires on May 23, 2000, 7:01 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Commissioners absent: . Also present: APPROVAL OF MINUTES. May 9,2000 Maynard Apel, Mark Hedin, Tim Kirchoff, Douglas Falk, Lany Dalien, and Chairperson Jay Squires. Dean Daninger City Planner, John Hinzman Community Development Director, Dave Carlberg Zoning Administrator, Jeff Johnson Others Commissioner Hedin commented that under the discussion regarding Ordinance No. 240, he was talking about the distance of the bow shot is 20 yards instead of20 feet as stated in the minutes. Motion by Falk, seconded by Hedin, the minutes be approved as amended. Motion carried on a 6-ayes,0-nay, I-absent vote. PUBLIC HEARING, CONTINUED: REZONING (REZ 00-03) - R3, SINGLE FAMILY SUBURBAN TO R-4, SINGLE FAMILY URBAN -14268 ROUND LAKE BLVD. - WAYNE NESS. PUBLIC HEARING, CONTINUED: LOT SPLIT (LS 00-07) - SPLIT NORTHERN HALF OF A +/- 31,756 S.F. PROPERTY -14268 ROUND LAKE BLVD. - WAYNE NESS. Mr. Hinzman gave a brief presentation of the rezoning and lot split request at 14268 Round Lake Blvd. He explained that the item was tabled from the last meeting to allow verification of the sewer stub location. The location of the sewer stub has been verified. He stated that the City Engineer recommends creating a utility easement over the vacant split property to access the existing home. The easement would be located roughly 10-15 feet north of the proposed property split line. ,-, '-,-) () '-../ Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 2 C) Mr. Hinzman stated that the originai lot split request has been slightly modified. It was mentioned that the frontage along Round Lake Blvd. has been reduced from 104' to 90' for the split property (approximateiy 780 s.f.) to better match the location of the sewer stub. He also mentioned that all applicable ordinances for the rezoning and lot split request are required to be met. Chair Squires stated that the public hearing has been continued from the last meeting and asked ifthere was anyone present who would like to address the commission. There was no public input. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:05 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nay, I-absent vote. Commissioner Falk questioned if there was ever talk of moving the property line to match the stub. Mr. Hinzman stated that they had considered that as an option, but explained that they decided that it would not be feasible. '~J Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Falk, to recommend approval to the City Council of the request to rezone approximately 31,756 s.f. of property from R-3, Single Family Suburban to R-4, Single Family Urban at 14268 Round Lake Boulevard. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nay, I-absent vote. Commissioner Hedin questioned if the resolution would include the easement. Mr. Hinzman stated the resolution requires an easement to be dedicated, however a separate easement document would be accepted by the Council at a later date. Motion by Dalien, seconded by Kirchoff, to forward to the City Council a recommendation of approval of Resolution No. R -00, a resolution granting the lot split request at 14268 Round Lake Boulevard, legally described as Lot 3, Block 3, Andover Boundary Commission Plat No. 1, subject to the following conditions: 1) That the lot split be subject to a sunset clause as defmed in Ordinance No. 40, Section III(E). 2) City acceptance of a survey for the proposed lot split. 3) Park dedication being paid in accordance with Ordinance No. 10, Section 9.07. 4) That construction of a home or removal of the accessory garage commences within one (J year of the date of approval on the split parcel. !~. . J ,~ (') '--J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23,2000 Page 3 () 5) That a drainage and utility easement be prepared by the applicant and be accepted by the city over the sewer service line on the northern split parcel Chair Squires stated that both items would be considered at the June 6, 2000 City Council meeting. PRESENTATION: SKETCH PLAN -NATURE'S RUN - 44 TWIN HOME UNITS -1650 ANDOVER BLVD. -PRESENTATION BY DH LAND COMPANY. Steve Johnston, of Landform Engineering Company, representing DH Land Company, presented the Nature's Run sketch plan. He stated the location as being off Andover Blvd. and Hanson Blvd. He explained that they are proposing 44 twinhome units in addition to a commercial lot located on the comer of the site. They also are proposing a trail to run throughout the development. He stated that there are 4 separate units that would have a private drive and therefore would be narrower than the normal street width. ~J Mr. Johnston stated that the twinhomes being proposed are similar in appearance, but do vary in the layouts from unit to unit. They are proposing a more typical twinhome setback, which would give enough room to park a car on the driveway, and also help to preserve the wetlands surrounding the area. It was mentioned that the development would consist ofa Homeowner's Association where the property owners would pay monthly dues to pay for the plowing, shoveling, landscaping, and any exterior maintenance. He explained that they view the association as an advantage to the development since it will help to keep the area as an attractive neighborhood. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned the location of the wetlands and if the trail is proposed to run through the wetlands. Mr. Johnston stated that the City is planning to put a trail in and therefore he doesn't have the specifics. Commissioner Hedin questioned the depth of the backyards. Mr. Johnston explained that it would be approximately 35 feet. Commissioner Falk questioned what they are projecting for the price of the homes. Mr. Johnston stated that the homes will start at $199,000. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned if the road through the development would be private or public. Mr. Johnston explained that all roads would be public except for the private drive on the northwest side. () ,- " " _J .... -~, f \ U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 4 u Commissioner Falk questioned the length of the road where the cul-de-sac is located. Mr. Johnson stated the iength of the road and explained that it is measured from the road to the cul- de-sac. PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN - NATURE'S RUN - 44 TWIN HOME UNITS -1650 ANDOVER BLVD. -DH LAND COMPANY. Community Development Director Dave Carlberg presented the staff report on the Nature's Run sketch plan. He mentioned that the land is currently located in a R-I, Single Family Rural Zoning District with a small part zoned R-4, Single Family Urban, however rezoning to M-I or M-2 may be necessary for the remaining property will probably be necessary. He mentioned that the property would most likely develop as a Planned Unit Development, and if so a Special Use Permit will be required. He explained a Comprehensive Plan Amendment will be needed for the site to change the land use designation from RU, Residential Urban Single Family and OS, Open Space. Additional changes may be needed for the future commercial uses. ~-) Mr. Carlberg stated that a commercial node is proposed on the comer of Hanson Blvd. and Andover Blvd. He mentioned that the property is currently located in the Metropolitan Urban Service Area (MUSA), and will be required to be developed in accordance with the Andover Development Policy Guideline. It was also mentioned that all applicable ordinances will be required to be met prior to approval of the plan. He stated that the Water Resource Management Plan shall be implemented with the development. Mr. Carlberg explained that the I DO-year pond elevation shall be identified on the preliminary plat, in addition drainage and utility easements are required for the I DO-year flood elevations. He mentioned that the developer and/or owner will be required to obtain all necessary permits. He stated there are wetlands within the proposed development that must be delineated by agencies and indicated on the preliminary plat. Mr. Carlberg stated that the Andover Review Committee met and did have comments regarding the sketch plan. He reviewed those comments as listed in the staff report. Commissioner Dalien questioned how many units were in the Hanson Hollow project. Mr. Carlberg stated 44 units that were proposed. Chair Squires questioned if there are less units overall on this project as compared to the Hanson Hollow Sketch. Mr. Carlberg stated that there is more, but there also was additional land with the other project. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned if the recommendation is to widen the driveway to 26 feet. Mr. Carlberg agreed, stating the proposed width is 20 feet. .:_) -j \- ./ '\ , ~--_' o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23. 2000 Page 5 Chair Squires questioned the connector street off Hanson Blvd. over to Crosstown. Mr. Carlberg explained that there is a connection project already being considered, however at this time he was unsure ofthe exact location. The Andover Review Committee recommends additional right-of-way b taken for future road needs. Chair Squires questioned if it is being taken into consideration that Andover Blvd. will be changing in the future. Mr. Carlberg stated that they are planning around the future changes to Andover Blvd. Mr. Carlberg explained that within the next couple of years signal lights may be installed on Andover Blvd., however it will not take place prior to the development. He stated that he would look into what the projected dates are for completion. Commissioner Falk questioned if the roads are big enough for turning ianes off Hanson Blvd. and Andover Blvd. Mr. Carlberg stated that they are planning to take necessary right-of-way to accommodate future reconstruction needs. Chair Squires questioned if it is staff's recommendation to require trails along Hanson Blvd. and Andover Blvd. Mr. Carlberg stated that staff does recommend trails be developed, however that issue will go before the Park and Recreation Commission at their next meeting. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned if the trials will be public trails. Mr. Carlberg stated that the trails would indeed be public trails. Motion by Falk, seconded by Hedin, to open the public hearing at 7:37 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nay, I-absent vote. Thomas Enzmann, 1718 Andover Blvd. NW, requested to read a letter written by his wife Connie in response to the Nature's Run sketch plan. The letter stated that a neighborhood petition was submitted to the Andover City Council in March addressing traffic on Andover Blvd. Some of the concerns are traffic, wetland impact, in addition to other new developments as a result of the new high school. It was mentioned that no solutions to the future conflicts have been addressed other than the traffic light at the intersection of Crosstown and Andover Blvd. Also, the figures for the estimated traffic levels off Hanson Blvd. and Andover Blvd. were mentioned in hopes to convince the commission that the traffic is already extremely heavy and the with another new development the traffic will only become worse. She also expressed concerns with the development having a long cul-de-sac, since it will pose a safety hazard for emergency vehicles. It was mentioned that since there are already convenience stores within a short distance of the development, then another one on the comer of Hanson and Andover would not benefit the area but cause more traffic problems as a result. A copy of the letter was then submitted to the commission for review. , '\ ,_/ :') ,,-. o o () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 6 David Overbaugh, 1826 Andover Blvd., stated concerns with the location of the sewer and trail since it invades his property. Mr. Carlberg stated that the trail would not necessarily follow the sewer road. David Bower, 1736 Andover Blvd., mentioned concerns with the private drive, since it could cause problems with neighboring property owners. He also requested more information regarding how the development of the wetland was determined. He stated that he feels the development will not benefit the area and instead only cause a substantial increase in traffic. Carol Christopherson, 1703 Andover Blvd., stated that there is an extreme amount of traffic already and creating this new development will only add to the problem. She stated that based on the information she was given at a special City Council meeting there is no stoplight in progress for the intersection of Hanson Blvd. and Andover Blvd. until the year 2005. She also expressed concerns as to why she was not notified that Andover Blvd. would be widened since she has property that will be affected. Michael Hollister, 1816 Andover Blvd., stated that the traffic starts as early as 4 a.m. and is already extremely heavy; therefore he stated that he doesn't understand the purpose of the development since it will only add to the already existing traffic problem. Kent , 1980 154th Lane, stated that the traffic is backed up on Hanson Blvd. on a daily basis. He mentioned that something needs to be done to accommodate the increasing traffic levels, however another development and gas station will not solve the existing problem, only increase the problem. He mentioned that he used to be part of a Homeowner's Association and remembers that collecting the money is often times a problem and as a result it would be hard to maintain the property. Another concern he had was that adding another development isn't necessary since there are already new developments going up around the City. Davin Gisslen, 1836 Andover Blvd., stated that the reason he moved out to Andover in the first place was to avoid the traffic, however with all the new developments and the new high school the traffic will only become worse. He suggested waiting until the high school is completed to determine the amount of traffic that will generate prior to making a decision on another development. Thomas Enzmann, 1718 Andover Blvd., stated that he was once told that no development could be located in this area since it was zoned as open space. He mentioned that when the development to the north was created it resulted in Ibis Street running in front of his property out on to Andover Blvd. He stated that he had a conversation with a developer recently that has supposedly talked to area property owners about lots for sale; however he never contacted them. He stated concerns with a development being under a high line and adjacent to a landfill. Finally, he had concerns with the cul-de-sac being as long as proposed since his property will directly be affected since it is to the east of his property. r '\ 'J U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 7 (j Phil Streeter, 14315 , stated concerns with the increase in traffic the development will bring to the area. He mentioned that something would need to change with the road in order to accommodate the traffic levels of today. He also stated that he doesn't feel the development is necessary since the traffic is already a problem in the area. Mark , 1418 Crane Street, stated that he only uses Andover Blvd. as way to get from point A to point B, however he stated he is opposed to the development and doesn't feel it reflects the City well. Julie Johnson, 1427 l43rd Lane, stated that she doesn't feel the development is necessary since it will only add to the already existing traffic problem. Jeff Johnston, 14540 Ibis Street, questioned if the developer is proposing townhomes or twinhomes. He mentioned that he opposes the ideas since this is the only area around his neighborhood where there is nature and wetlands to be found. He also stated that if the development is approved the traffic problems will only become worse. Carroll Abbott, 2917 l42nd Lane, stated that he is not here to comment on the project, but instead to congratulate all the young people for expressing their opinions to the commission. --\ ,-) Mr. Johnston gave explanations to some of the concerns the public had mentioned. In reality single family homes create 10 trips per day in and out of the development, and townhomes create only 6 trips per day. He explained that in the end it ends up being about the same when taking into consideration the increase in density. He agreed the gas station would defmite1y increase the traffic, however he explained that there are not a lot of options since no one would want to live on the comer. He stated that the location is a prime spot for a commercial business. Mr. Johnston explained that the trail down by the creek is only going to be there if that is what the City so desires. He mentioned that they are not filling the wetlands, but instead creating more wetlands into their back yards. It was explained that the property owner who sold the land stated that he had offered to sell the land in strips down to the creek, however no one was interested so as a result he sold the land to be developed as one unit. He mentioned that the individuals who live directly off Andover Blvd. have valid issues and concerns, however those that have moved into the area within the last 5 years to newer developments really shouldn't be opposing the idea since their own development was in this situation a few years ago. He also reviewed how the association dues would be handled, in order to control the appearance of the twinhomes. C) Mr. Johnston explained that those who live in townhomes are either just starting out or are possibly older and do not want the responsibility of a lawn and exterior maintenance, therefore it isn't fair to say that townhomes are not welcome to the area. He stated that the land is within -,-, '-) f '\ '......I Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23,2000 Page 8 C) the MUS A and therefore allows us to develop land without using a lot ofland. Finally, he stated that he doesn't know if there is a difference between townhomes or twinhomes technically speaking. Andy , 14753 Jay Street, questioned if the association can be voted out by the property owners. Mr. Johnston stated that with a 2/3 vote the property owners could vote the association out. Mr. (Andy) stated that if the association were voted out then how would the exterior maintenance of the twinhomes be controlled. Mr. Johnston stated that if that were to happen it take the development back to a single family home situation, however he mentioned that he doesn't see that happening. A member from the audience suggested waiting until the high school is built to detennine if a gas station and/or twinhome development would be an asset to the community based on the traffic the amount of traffic the school will generate. Mr. Enzmann, questioned the developer as to why he has not been out to the neighborhoods to receive input from the residents since they are the people most affected. He mentioned that at a recent special City Council meeting he had heard that they do not feel the land surrounding the ~_) school is made for commercial use. John Calsie, 1748 Andover Blvd., stated that he recently built a house on Andover Blvd., and is concerned about the traffic levels since it will affect the value of his property. A member from the audience stated that the Hanson Hollow development is less dense in comparison to Nature's Run. They questioned the reason for the increase in density. A member from the audience stated that the wetland area was never up for sale and therefore they were never given the opportunity to purchase the land from the original property owner. A member from the audience stated he was not against townhomes necessarily, but stated that there are too many on too little land. He also mentioned that he doesn't like the access onto Andover Blvd. He suggested single family homes as a better option, or maybe even the city could buy it and condemn the land as a wetland. There was no other public input. Motion by Squires, seconded by Falk, to close the public hearing at 8:25 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nay, I-absent vote. o Commissioner Apel suggested running the cul-de-sac out onto Hanson Blvd., which would result in another access. , " J ,-/' -' "- ',) -~) o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 9 /- ) ~ Commissioner Hedin questioned the logic behind the access point being on the commercial end and not on the other end. Commissioner Hedin stated that the long cul-de-sac concerns him and therefore feels the access point be on the opposite end of the commercial site. Mr. Carlberg stated that on a longer cul-de-sac there could be a knockdown or a break-away to allow emergency vehicles to get through the development. Mr. Carlberg stated that if there are not two street access points, than that is the other option for the emergency vehicles. He asked for comments or suggestions from the commission reminding them that the sketch plan is conceptual, and now is the time to give the developer direction. Commissioner Hedin stated concerns about the length of the cul-de-sac. Commissioner Dalien questioned ifthere are safety issues that the commission needs to be concerned about in terms of plowing, etc. Mr. Carlberg stated that most streets within the city are public. Chair Squires stated that he doesn't believe that there are any other options than a long cul-de- sac. He gave reasons to support his opinion. Commissioner Kirchoff agreed with Chair Squires in that a iong cul-de-sac is the best option under the situation. Commissioner Falk stated that he also agreed with Chair Squires, but had concerns with the safety issues. Commissioner Hedin stated concerns with the long cul-de-sac in the winter, since it isn't uncommon to get 6 inches or more in one snowstorm. Commissioner Apel stated that the commercial (gas station) business is not necessary and if eliminated would solve some of the traffic concerns of area residents. Commissioner Dalien agreed that a gas station is not necessary and would create too much traffic congestion for the area. Chair Squires questioned how a convenience store fits into the zoning requirements of the City. Mr. Carlberg stated that it is permitted in the NB, Neighborhood Business Zoning District. . , '\ '----J _r'. V Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 10 f-" J Chair Squires stated that if we approve the proposal with the current zoning they would still be able develop a convenience store. Mr. Carlberg stated that it would be allowed, however a special use pennit would be needed for bulk storage ofliquid fuels for the gas. Commissioner Apel suggested developing a PUD since the City has more control regarding the amount of traffic in and out of the development. Commissioner Hedin questioned that if a PUD is developed, then would the density of the commercial site be separate from the density of homes. Mr. Carlberg stated that the City would probably keep them separate since the association would not want to maintain a convenience store. Commissioner Falk stated that he would support the development of a PUD. Chair Squires stated that the developer was correct in thinking that a business would be appropriate since no one would want to live in that location. He mentioned that he supports the development of a PUD since it would direct a less intense commercial use on the comer of the site. ~) Commissioner Kirchoff suggested making the area into a high-density area such as an apartment complex instead of a business. Commissioner Dalien mentioned that it would be nice if the developers could meet with the residents in the area. Chair Squires explained that the resident meetings typically follow the sketch plan, which would explain why people in the audience stated that they had never seen the developers except for tonight. Chair Squires stated that we are all part of the problem due to the traffic congestion, and since everyone has moved up here to get away from the traffic it has only increased the problem. He mentioned that the City will need to address the problem, however the problem does have to become worse before the problem can be solved. He supported the developer in his attempt to convince the public that in reality a single family development creates the same amount of traffic or more as a twinhome development. He explained that his family alone makes at least 10 trips per day in and out of the development since they have children who are involved in numerous activities, and someone in a twinhome may not necessarily have children. He stressed that it is important that the City use this development as a way and a reason to install a stop light at the intersection of Hanson and Andover. C) Commissioner Dalien mentioned that once the high school is built there will be additional pain with another increase in traffic and congestion and as a result those issues will need to be addressed at that time. .,..-, , -,--/ o ,~ ) --- -- , /' " (J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 11 :' ') '-./ Mr. Cariberg stated that there is going to be a traffic analysis done in conjunction with the high school to predict where the congestion areas will lie to help in addressing those issues prior to the school being built. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that he also supported the numbers given by the developer when comparing the number of trips in and out of a single family development versus a twinhome development. Commissioner Dalien and Commissioner Apel also agreed with Chair Squires. Mr. Carlberg stated that the trail concerns are more for the Park and Recreation Commission and they will be addressed at their next meeting. Chair Squires questioned if staff could comment on what the land was to be used for in response to a question from a member in the audience. Mr. Carlberg stated that the land was originally designated as open space, however it is not unusual for plans to change. The plans have been amended. The 1991 plan showed the land as open space and two years ago it was changed to the current classification. Mr. Carlberg questioned if the commission supports the private drive and if the developer should work with the property owners to the west for the future development of neighboring properties. Commissioner Apel stated that there is no way you can predict how the land next door is going to be developed. Commissioner Falk stated that it is a good idea to work with adjacent properties to prevent future problems. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that it is also a good idea to line up the streets with adjacent properties. Chair Squires stated that it is a good idea since it helps to communicate and prevent future problems. Commissioner Apel stated that more information is needed to determine ifhe would support the private drive. He stated that if it enhances the development than he would support the proposal. Commissioner Falk questioned if there was plenty of room for the private drive to be 26 feet wide. Mr. Johnston stated that they are proposing the private drive to be 20 feet wide, however there is room for the drive to be 26 feet wide if the City so desires. ('- \.J (..J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 12 .j Commissioner Hedin questioned ifthere are setbacks. Commissioner Dalien mentioned that some of the surrounding neighborhoods had concerns that all they see is asphalt. He questioned if there isn't a way to screen it to accommodate surrounding property owners. Commissioner Dalien questioned if it is possible to not have as many units in such a small area. Chair Squires agreed with Commissioner Apel and stated that more information would be helpful in making a decision. Mr. Carlberg explained what will happen next when proceeding with the sketch plan. RECESS Chair Squires called a recess at 9:00 p.m. Chair Squires reconvened the meeting at 9:08 p.m. , \.~-' PRESENTATION: SKETCH PLAN - GOLD NUGGET DEVELOPMENT - 79 SINGLE FAMILY URBAN LOTS, +/- 40 TOWNHOME UNITS-SE ~ SECTION 14- PRESENTATION BY GOLD NUGGET DEVELOPMENT. Horst Graser, representing Gold Nugget Development, presented the sketch plan located south of 161st Avenue and NE of the Chesterton Commons Third Addition. He explained that the plan consists of79 single family urban residential lots and 36 townhomes on approximately 72 acres. He gave a description of the layout of the plan highlighting the location of the wetland areas, access points, single family homes, and townhomes. He mentioned that the railroad tracks are defmitely an impact to the development since they are just to the east of the site. Mr. Graser stated that they are proposing 36 townhomes along the eastern boundary that will start at approximately $150,000. He mentioned that the cul-de-sac does exceed the maximum length, however there are not any other options due to the wetlands and the railroad tracks surrounding the area. It was mentioned that the anticipated market value of the single family homes would be anywhere from $200,000 to $250,000. Commissioner Falk questioned if the area would be likely to flood since the land is so flat. Mr. Graser agreed that the land is considerably flat, however mentioned they are proposing to lime the area to prevent flooding. ! ) . . '--' Commissioner Kirchoff questioned the location of the two access points connecting to the Woodland Development. Mr. Graser pointed out the two access points, mentioning that one would be able to eliminate the one cul-de-sac. ~) ,- \ U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23,2000 Page 13 () Commissioner Falk questioned if the development is considered a PUD. Mr. Carlberg stated that yes it would be a PUD. PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN - GOLD NUGGET DEVELOPMENT - 79 SINGLE FAMILY URBAN LOTS, +/- 40 TOWNHOME UNITS - SE % SECTION 14 - GOLD NUGGET DEVELOPMENT. Mr. Carlberg presented the staff report on the Gold Nugget Development sketch plan. He stated that the proposed plan is located in R-l, Single Family Rural Zoning District and will need to be rezoned to R-4, Single Family Urban. He stated that in an R-4 District, the minimum lot size is 11,400 square feet for the single family lots, and additional rezoning to M- 1 or M-2 to accommodate the twinhomes may be necessary. c) Mr. Carlberg stated that the proposed sketch plan is not consistent with the existing Andover Comprehensive Land Use Plan as the property is designated as RR, Residential Rurai and is located outside the Metropolitan Urban Service Area, (MUSA). It is important to know that the Draft Comprehensive Plan currently before the Metropolitan Council shows the majority of the sketch plan to be consistent with the Land Use Plan, RU, Residential Urban Single Family and is located in the MUSA. He stated that the property would be required to develop in accordance with the Development Policy Guideline, in addition to meeting all the applicable ordinances that apply to the proposed development. Mr. Carlberg stated that 1, 10, and 100 year flood elevations shall be identified on the preliminary plat, in addition to the drainage and utility easements being required. He mentioned that the developer and/or owner is responsible to obtain all necessary permits prior to construction. The wetlands within the proposed development must be delineated and indicated on the plan. Mr. Carlberg explained that the Park and Recreation Commission will be reviewing the sketch plan at their next meeting on June 1,2000. He mentioned that the Andover Review Committee has reviewed the plan and made comments as listed in the staff report. Chair Squires questioned what happened with the MSA connector road from 161 st A venue. Mr. Carlberg stated that they are still looking at it as an option. Chair Squires questioned if the road on the other end of the development will extend down to Crosstown Blvd. Mr. Carlberg explained that the road coming out on the other end could extend down to Crosstown Blvd. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned if the development ties into 156th Lane. Mr. Carlberg ,..-" stated that it hasn't been resolved yet, but they are looking at it as a part of the sketch plans '----/ surrounding the area. ('1 '--/ Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 14 , '1 "-,, -' -,) '--.-/ Motion by Falk, seconded by Dalien, to open the public hearing at 9:27 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nay, I-absent vote. Janie Hammelgarn, 1054 161st Avenue, stated that she has concerns with the parks and the trails since there are a lot of new developments coming up in the area, however there are no proposed trails. She mentioned concerns with the development bordering her property since she raises horses and has them fenced in by an electrical fence. She questioned if there would need to be a barrier in order to prevent any problems. She explained that she had a conversation with Mr. Graser regarding the possibility of eliminating the fIrst lot and instead moving the second lot over so there would be more room. She stated that their house is right on the property line due to the location of the water table, and therefore she doesn't want the neighboring house extremely close to her own. She also questioned that with schools as full as they are with the current population how will they ever be able to accommodate the community if the City continues to develop land. Mary McCartney, ,stated that she supports the street they are proposing on the south side of the development. She also mentioned that she hopes the City will make every effort to preserve the wetlands throughout the City before approving any new development. Finally, it was mentioned that the City should look at the street situations in advance in order to , prevent future problems. I '-- j Ms Hammelgarn questioned what the next step is for the proposed sketch plan. Mr. Carlberg reviewed the process and procedure for the Gold Nugget Development sketch plan and stated that it is projected to develop in 2001. Chair Squires questioned ifthe park board will have a public hearing on the sketch plan as well. Mr. Graser stated that he is aware that there is currently no access to County Rd 20 or 161 st Avenue, however he stated that he has made a specific lot within the development extra large to allow for a future access if the City so desires. He mentioned that he could move the twinhomes to the far east if that is what the City requests. It was explained that they plan to custom grade as much as possible, which will help to save as many trees as possible. Mr. Graser explained that the reasoning for the curve in the development is because it will heip to minimize the speed of traffic traveling through the area. He mentioned that he is unsure of how to answer the electrical fencing concern since it would not involve him as the developer. ~.J Chair Squires questioned the amount of pine trees that exist within the proposed site. Mr. Graser pointed out the areas where pine trees are present and explained that they hope to save the majority of the trees through custom grading. o r~) \.j ~J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23. 2000 Page 15 Mr. Carlberg explained that custom grading is when they grade on an individual lot basis. He stated that it is a good way to save the trees in the area. A member from the audience mentioned that there could be some oak wilt on the proposed site. She mentioned that she noticed that some trees had the disease when she was out walking recently. There was no other public input. Motion by Daiien, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 9:40 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nay, I-absent vote. Commissioner Apel stated that the proposed sketch plan looks good in his opinion. Mr. Carlberg stated that he would take the review committee comments in addition to the concerns of the people who spoke at the public hearing and forward them on to the City Council. Chair Squires mentioned concerns regarding 156th Lane. He mentioned the possibility ofa buffer road between the multi-family homes and the homes to the northeast. He suggested that C~) some type of separation between the homes might be a good idea. Mr. Carlberg stated since it will be a PUD there will be a landscaping plan that will be approved by the City to help in controlling some ofthose concerns. Commissioner Hedin questioned if there would be a park within the development. Mr. Carlberg stated that a park will likely be located near the Woodland Woods and Chesterton Commons developments, therefore this proposal will only consist of a trail. Mr. Carlberg stated that he will take the Review Committee comments and the concerns mentioned tonight and forward them on to the June 6, 2000 City Council meeting. PRESENTATION: SKETCH PLAN - MERIT DEVELOPMENTIPUD - 6 SINGLE FAMILY RURAL LOTS - SW ~ OF SECTION 28 - PRESENTATION BY MERIT DEVELOPMENT. ~ ') Todd Ganz, representing Merit Development, presented the sketch plan on the Merit Development. He stated that the proposed development is for 6 single family rural residential lots on 18.5 acres. He is proposing the south 10 acres be put into a land trust to prevent it from ever being developed. These 10 acres may be fenced for running pasture for the horses. It was mentioned that he is proposing a common horse bam where each property owner can have two horses stored in the barn. He mentioned that this idea has been done in other areas around the o () ~-) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 16 metropolitan area, however is defmitely new to Andover. He explained that the homes would have a common septic system with each property owner having their own well. Commissioner Hedin questioned how he proposes to maintain the septic systems regularly. Mr. Ganz stated there would be a Homeowner's Association in place to maintain the barn, septic, etc. Commissioner Hedin questioned if the people would be able to ride the horses on the additional 10 acres. Mr. Ganz stated that between lots 4 and 5 would be the barn, and half of the 10 acres fenced and the rest left open. Commissioner Hedin questioned if a land trust would prevent the land from being used as pasture. Mr. Ganz stated that it would require an easement in order for the land to be used as pasture. Chair Squires questioned if the 10 additional acres would be buildable land. Mr. Ganz stated that the west 2/3 of the 10 acres is considered buildable land. Commissioner Hedin questioned if the lots would be developed by him or sold separately. Mr. Ganz stated that he would developing the land and the homes would range in price from '~J $200,000 to $300,000. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned how the barn would be set up. Mr. Ganz stated that there would be one feed room, one hay room, one storage room, and each property would have two stalls. PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN - MERIT DEVELOPMENTIPUD - 6 SINGLE FAMILY RURAL LOTS - SW ~ OF SECTION 28 - MERIT DEVELOPMENT. Mr. Carlberg stated that this development is unique to the City of Andover. He mentioned that the lots would range from 1/3 to * of an acre, and a 14.4 acre outlot is also proposed. He explained that the sketch plan is located in an R-l, Single Family Rural Zoning District with a minimum lot size of 2.5 acres, therefore the property would most likely develop as a Planned , Unit Development to achieve smaller lot sizes. He did mention that a Special Use Permit would need to be granted to allow the development as a PUD. Mr. Carlberg explained that the property is not located in the MUSA, however lies adjacent to the 2020 MUS A boundary. He mentioned that all applicable ordinances would be required to be met prior to construction. It was stated that the Water Resource Management Plan shall be implemented with the development. The 100 year pond elevation shall be identified on the preliminary plat, in addition to required drainage and utility easements. He stated that the ~) developer and/or owner is responsible to obtain all necessary permits as listed in the staff (- '\ '-.j (J / "\ '-..) o () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 17 report. Mr. Carlberg explained that there are wetlands within the proposed development that must be delineated by agencies indicated on the preliminary plat. Mr. Carlberg stated that the Park and Recreation Commission will review the sketch plan at their next meeting on June 1,2000. He mentioned that the Andover Review Committee has reviewed the plan and made comments as listed in the staff report. Commissioner Falk questioned if this type of septic system is new to the city. Mr. Carlberg stated that it is new to the City of Andover. Chair Squires stated that even though it is new for us, one septic serving a number of properties is commonly used in other areas. He stated that if other cities are able to make it work than so should the City of Andover. Commissioner Hedin stated that he sees it as a plus if the City can make the new system work. Mr. Carlberg stated that he agreed that it is a great concept if the problem areas can be ironed out. Commissioner Hedin stated if we do get sewer up there than it should be able to last forever. Mr. Carlberg stated that the system does need to be evaluated thoroughly. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearing at 10:04 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nay, I-absent vote. Richard Pearson, 2863 South Coon Creek Drive, stated that most of the residents in the area feel it looks iike a great development to add to the City. Carroll Abbott, 2927 22nd Lane, stated that the people on his street also feel as though it is a great concept. There was no other public input. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Dalien, to close the public hearing at 10:06 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nay, I-absent vote. The Commissioner who agreed that the sketch plan is a great idea, and the size of the iots could be re-addressed at a later date since the development would be located in a rural area. Commissioner Apel mentioned that the only problem with increasing the lot size is that the concept for cluster housing is then lost. o () /--') 'J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 18 Mr. Carlberg stated that the idea the developer is proposing is to have smaller lots, however the City does have concerns with the proposal since it is a new concept to have a common septic system among a number of homes. Chair Squires stated that lot size would directly affect the density of the development, therefore the clustering concept preserves the density issues that may arise. Mr. Carlberg stated that in the future a rural PUD probably will not exist. Chair Squires stated that the clustering ofhqmes could possibly be an alternative to a PUD. He stated that the concept of clustering is a great way of developing without having the high density level. Chair Squires suggested the City look into clustering as an option for the future over developing a PUD. Commissioner Dalien stated that he supports the concept and mentioned that it is very interesting idea to add to the City. Commissioner Falk commented that it is nice to see the developer working with the residents in , _) the area since they are the ones most affected. Mr. Carlberg stated that he would take the comments from the Andover Review Committee in addition to the comments given by the commission and forward them on to the City Council at their next meeting on June 6,2000. PRESENTATION: ANOKA HIGH SCHOOL SOCIAL STUDIES PROJECT- CONCEPTUAL GOLF COURSE AND DRIVING RANGE - PRESENTATION BY MICHAEL DAHL, ANOKA HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. (j Michael Dahl, an Anoka High School Student, presented the commission with a conceptual goif course and driving range sketch plan. He developed this plan as part of a project for his Geography course. He stated that he was looking at three sites around the City for the possibility of a future golf course. He gave a brief explanation as to why two of three sites did not work and why the third site was best suited for the golf course. He supported his reasoning based on the septic, land use, etc. He mentioned that the proposed site is approximately 200 acres. He explained that even though he proposed a lot of water on the site, this would not be possible since the soil consists of a large amount of sand. Mr. Dahl also presented a housing development that would be located on the south side of the golf course. He mentioned that the homes would range from approximately $200,000 to $300,000. It was also mentioned that the land he was proposing to develop would need to be rezoned in order to allow such a development. o U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 19 F , \ '-_/ Chair Squires and the rest of the commission commended Mr. Dahl on an exceptional sketch plan that was very thorough and addressed all the main concerns when developing land. DISCUSSION: DISCUSS ORDINANCE NO. 240 - FIREARMSmUNTING ORDINANCE. Zoning Administrator Jeff Johnson continued the discussion on the Firearms/Hunting Ordinance No. 240 from the May 9, 2000 meeting. He mentioned that he researched what other neighboring cities allow in terms of hunting. He stated that the City of Blaine doesn't allow any firearm use throughout the city, and the City of Ham Lake follows state regulations. He presented the commission with a more accurate map highlighting the areas where hunting is allowed, and areas of 10 acres or more. Mr. Johnson reviewed the options the commission may decide on as recommended by staff. Commissioner Apel questioned if the landowners are notified when a decisiQn such as this is made. Mr. Johnson stated that the City doesn't require that landowners are notified, however it is possible to schedule a public hearing if the commission so desires. Mr. Johnson stated that there was one petition received as listed in the staff report regarding an '\ area where landowners are opposed to hunting. He mentioned that they are the only complaints , / the City has received. Commissioner Apel stated that the best option is to recommend no hunting south of 161 st A venue. Commissioner Falk mentioned that somehow the property owners would need to be informed. Commissioner Apel mentioned that bow hunting is a separate issue from fIrearm use. Commissioner Hedin questioned how the City came up with the proposed additions to the no hunting zone. Mr. Johnson explained that the areas proposed are the new developments that have been approved and will be developed in the near future. Mr. Carlberg stated that as properties develop those areas then could have a public hearing. Commissioner Hedin mentioned that there might be problems if a defmite line is drawn down 16151 Avenue. Mr. Johnson stated that the reason there are concerns is because there are often times small children living in the developments. o Commissioner Apel mentioned that it would probably be easier to just draw a definite iine. o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23. 2000 Page 20 o I " _./ Chair Squires stated that using 161 st would probably be a good idea since it is already being used as the cut off point for snowmobilers. Chair Squires questioned if high-powered rifles can be used. Mr. Carlberg stated that no high- powered rifles can be used even under the current ordinance. Commissioner Dalien and Commissioner Apel suggested keeping areas larger than 40 acres open to bow hunting. Chair Squires questioned ifit is possible to lift the ban to allow hunting if the City believes there is overpopulation. Commissioner Hedin stated that he could accept the proposal as written in the staff report, however he would not support the line being drawn at 161 st Avenue. Chair Squires stated that he supports drawing the line at 161 st Avenue with the understanding to lift the ban if the City so desires. He also suggested allowing bow hunting in the blue areas on the map presented by staff. ') Commissioner Kirchoff stated that whatever is decided there will many people breaking the '~I law. Chair Squires suggested that the City be able to issue the permits to help in controlling the population if a problem were to arise. Commissioner Kirchoff questioned how the City would determine if there was a problem. Chair Squires stated that the City would need to use their own judgment. Chair Squires suggested staff draw a proposal up and present it at the next meeting. OTHER BUSINESS Mr. Hinzman briefed the Planning and Zoning Commission on the outcome of the issues that were pending with the City Council. He also gave a brief overview of items that will be up for discussion at the next Planning Commission meeting. Mr. Hinzman also mentioned that there will be a work session meeting on May 30, 2000 in conjunction with the City Council. () ADJOURNMENT ,.- , . \...._ I , .) \'-" ,-, . ) '- ~ r, (~ 0' ,J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - May 23, 2000 Page 21 Motion by ApeI, seconded by Hedin, to adjourn. Motion carried on 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. The meeting was adjourned at 10:52 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sara Beck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc