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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 22, 2000 o o o o o CITY of ANDOVER 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW. . ANDOVER. MINNESOTA 55304. (612) 755-5100 'LANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - FEBRUARY 22,2000 MINUTES The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Chairperson Jay Squires on February 22, 2000, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Maynard Apel, Larry Dalien, Douglas Falk, Mark Hedin, Tim Kirchoff, and Jay Squires. Dean Daninger Community Development Director, Dave Carlberg City Planner, John Hinzman Zoning Administrator, Jeff Johnson Others Commissioners absent: Also present: APPROVAL OF MINUTES. January 25, 2000 Motion by Falk, seconded by Hedin, the Minutes be approved as submitted. Motion carried on a 6- ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Chair Squires welcomed new Planning and Zoning Commission Member, Tim Kirchoff. Community Development Director, Dave Carlberg provided an overview of the format of the current agenda. He explained that all of these items relate to the Comprehensive Plan Amendments proposed by the City on a number of properties within the City. He stated the order of the agenda has been categorized by the area of the proposed land use change, and the request for projects for those general areas, for example, the Woodland Creek Townhomes would have a presentation by the developer, basically providing brief overview of the project. He indicated there would then be the Sketch Plan process, which provides a little more detail regarding staffs view has been, and what the City requirements are with regard to the Sketch Plan. He indicated there would also be a public hearing with the Sketch Plan to take public testimony related to that project. He advised that this would be followed up by the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, which will change the land use designation. Mr. Carlberg explained that where a project can be tied to these actions, they have all been tied together, so that the people can hear what the projects are, in addition to being involved in the discussion with the Comprehensive Plan Amendment\Rezoning, and giving public testimony in that regard. o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 2 u Mr. Carlberg stated the items related to the Comprehensive Plan Amendments, changing land use designations from Single Family to Multi-Family, Single Family to Higher Density Multi-Family, and Multi-Family to higher densities, were all placed on the agenda by the City of Andover, as the applicant. He explained the reason these items were placed on the agenda. He stated as the Commission was aware, there was initially a proposal called the Grey Oaks Planned Unit Development, which was to be a senior empty-nester development, located north of the Oak View Middle School. He stated the developer, over the past year, while working through the Preliminary Plat approval process, has not met the conditions, basically requiring the senior requirement, that 80 percent of that development be 55 years or older, and therefore, the City Council had initiated a Comprehensive Plan Amendment Rezoning of the property from a Multi-Family back to Single Family Urban densities, because that progress was not being made. He indicated that in reviewing that direction of the City Council to initiate the Comprehensive Plan\Rezoning, staff has discovered in the past that in order to obtain approval from the Metropolitan Council for a land use change such as that, where the are going from Multi-Family back to Single Family, they normally are required to exchange properties between the Multi-Family there and other areas that would have similar density or like acreages, and this was originally how these items came to be listed on the agenda.. o Mr. Carlberg stated the City Council has granted an extension for the Grey Oaks project for 60 days, and have tabled the Comprehensive Plan Amendment\Rezoning on the project. He stated that the previous Thursday, the Council held a special meeting, at which they contemplated whether they should proceed with the public hearings on the Comprehensive Plan Amendments that would be associated with the property exchange, and staff right or wrong had already initiated those public hearing processes, therefore, since the public notification had been made, the Council felt it appropriate to take the public feedback at this time. Mr. Carlberg indicated that other than the Grey Oaks project and that potential exchange, the City is also currently going through a Comprehensive Plan process, and in December, submitted the updated Comprehensive Plan to the Metropolitan Council. He stated the review of the plan has come back that the plan is deficient as far as a number of issues related to density, life cycle, and affordable housing. He explained that the City is developing Single Family homes at too Iowa density, are not providing life-cycle housing, senior housing, first time home buyer, rental, and affordable property issues. He stated the homes that are being constructed in Andover do not meet the affordability requirements pursuant to the Metropolitan Council policies. Therefore, these same areas that are being discussed in terms of the exchange, may also come forward in the discussions related to the approval of the City's Comprehensive Plan by the Metropolitan Council. Mr. Carlberg advised that the role ofthe Planning and Zoning Commission that evening, as their role when they review any new application at any meeting they hold, is advisory to the City Council. He stated there are no final decisions made at the meeting. He stated they were basically advisory and recommend to the City Council, based upon the ordinances and policies of the City of Andover, what they believe is proper. He stated the final decision on any of these items will be made by the o City Council at a future meeting, if they chose to do so. ( ) ~ Regular Andover Planning iind Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 3 () Chair Squires stated procedurally, Items 3 through 14, there are four requests comprised of three components, presentation, followed by two public hearings. He inquired if it was staffs desire to open both public hearings simultaneously and have just one presentation and allow public feedback. Mr. Carlberg stated staff would like to have the developer come forward and present the project, so that people can become familiar with what is being considered on the property, where there are Sketch Plan, designs or developments being examined on those properties, and from there go to the Sketch Plan, so they can see the kind of review that the City does in the initial stages, so that everyone has a good understanding of the process, and then deal with the Comprehensive Plan Amendment issue, so that they can discuss what the land use changes would be to get the product that the developer is presenting. He noted that all of the cases do not involve a Sketch Plan or projects directly related to some of the properties in the Comprehensive Plan Amendments, however, this is the proper format so that people understand what is being considered on that property is there is an associated project. Chair Squires inquired if staff would prefer the Commission keep them separately, with a presentation, then a public hearing on the Sketch Plan, followed by a public hearing on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. U' Mr. Carlberg stated this was correct. PRESENTATION: PROPOSED NORTH VALLEY RIDGE - 21 LOT, SINGLE FAMILY RURAL SUBDIVISION - PRESENTATION BY ED FIELDS AND SONS. Lyle Reynolds, Caine and Associates, licensed land surveyor stated they were proposing to develop a parcel that now consists of 38 acres approximately, now contains two existing dwellings, both of which will be retained, and contains one that is in use in a lot. He stated 22 lots, including those two structures will be created, resulting in a new development containing 19 additional dwellings. Mr. Reynolds stated the subject site is currently zoned R-l, Urban Service Area, and does not contain City sewer and water, therefore, must meet a more strict set of requirements. He advised that each lot has at least 32,500 square feet, with 165 feet of frontage. Each site is served by an individual well and septic system, and they are at this time, also requesting a variance on one of the lots for the building pad on that parcel, He stated the City requirement is 150 by 150, and there is one lot in which that is not possible to obtain. Mr. Reynolds stated this proposal has been reviewed by staff, and forwarded on to the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council for consideration. He stated they were taking 4 existing temporary dead end streets and eliminating those to channel traffic through this development, and out to other major thoroughfares. () U f..) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 4 o Chair Squires inquired regarding the process in this format, and if the matter should be opened up for questions at this time. Mr. Carlberg advised that this was simply the developer's opportunity to present his project to the Commission. He stated they would proceed from here, and then if there are specific questions through the preliminary plat process, they can be brought back. PUBLIC HEARING: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT (CPA 00-002) - CHANGE LAND USE FROM A, AGRICULTURE TO RR, RESIDENTIAL RURAL - NORTH VALLEY RIDGE, 28 ACRES - ED FIELDS AND SONS. City Planner, John Hinzman stated the proposed area is comprised of approximately 28 acres of the 38-acre total plat. He stated it is currently designated A, Agricultural Preserve in the Comprehensive Plan. He stated the land was previously in an Agricultural Preserve Program, which is a program in which land can be put in for tax benefit, and then there is an 8-year waiting period to withdraw it. Mr. Hinzman stated the underlying Zoning District of this area is still R-1, Single Family Rural. o Mr. Hinzman provided an overview of the applicable ordinances, which include Minnesota State Statute Chapter 473.855, which sets up the conformance factor that if the zoning is in conflict with the Municipal Plan, the Comprehensive Plan takes precedence in that case. Mr. Hinzman stated the existing land use around the use is predominantly rural, with some smaller lot rural to the north, and 2.5-acre lot development tot he south. He explained that the Comprehensive Plan sets up a number of different guidelines for development in the City, and includes in the rural area, that appropriate buffers be used between incompatible uses, and that the City is concerned about adequate public facilities, as well as the maintenance and preservation of agricultural lands. He stated the Comprehensive Plan also identifies some policies related to housing and residential land use, including encouraging a variety of residential housing units, planning those neighborhoods as units is also encouraged, as well as protecting the neighborhood from adverse environmental impacts, etc. Mr. Hinzman provided the Commission with pictures of the site. He explained that looking at the development from the south, it is seen that this is a fairly wooded site. He stated that a portion ofthe area is currently being farmed, and much ofthe area is rolling and wooded. Mr. Hinzman stated the underlying District is R-1, Single Family Rural, therefore it is in conformance with the Zoning Ordinance. He stated the municipal sewer and water service that was originally planned for this site, under the 1991 Comprehensive Plan, has been taken out during the draft plan of 2000, therefore, this area in the next 20 years is not anticipated to be served with City sewer and water. o / \ U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2009 Page 5 C) o Mr. Hinzman outlined the Commission's options for action. He indicated staff recommends approval of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, subject to the approval of the Metropolitan Council. Chair Squires stated he was aware that the property to the north and west along 16151 has been identified by the School District as one of the potential High School sites. He stated there has been some discussion pertaining to the extension of utilities to serve that High School. He inquired if this site were selected by the School District, and utilities were extended to that site, how would that effect this development, in terms of the manner in which it would be serviced, because they are proposing septic systems and wells at this time. He inquired if this is something that should be considered in the approval process. o Mr. Hinzman stated currently, the original proposal on 161't Avenue, there has been no specific corridor to bring service up, and tentatively it would be to the west of this development, bringing it in on a narrow strip, not as a trunk line, but as a lateral line to reach this development. He advised that at present, this site is not considered as a primary site for the High School by the School District. He explained that the two sites they are considering include a site south of Woodland Estates, and also the site in Ramsey, therefore, the possibilities of sewer being extended for a High School in this location is remote at this time, and under the original plan, it was not to come through this area, but coming toward the west. Chair Squires stated the average size of these lots are slightly larger than one acre. He stated the lots immediately to the north, those along Uplander and Swallow, particularly along Uplander, he inquired regarding the size of these lots. Mr. Hinzman stated this is an R-3 District, and was aware that the lots are less than an acre in this area, however, they are doubled up, and they build on every other lot. He stated this area was originally scheduled for development as a sewered area, and under a previous provision of the City's platting Ordinance, there was a provision that you could do one acre lots in areas where future sewer was planned to go in. He stated this provision has since been stricken from the Platting Ordinance, however the Council did make a decision to let this plat in at the one-acre level, regardless of that change. Chair Squires inquired if the Planning and Zoning Commission has reviewed this item as a Sketch Plan. Mr. Hinzman stated this was correct. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Dalien, to open the public hearing at 7:23 p.m.. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. o o (J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 6 o Mr. Carlberg stated this item was related to the land use, and specific questions related to the project itself, for example, drainage, and that type of thing, will be handled with the preliminary plat. Jay Schempf, 15921 Uplander, at the cul-de-sac, stated he had no objection to the housing plan itself, however, his main objection was with regard to loosing the cul-de-sac. He stated he and his wife had purchased their property two years ago, and one of the big selling points for them was the fact that there was a cul-de-sac there. He stated there are a number of children residing on this block, two of his own. He requested the Commission keep in mind that many of these residents were the same as those who had had the Northern Gas Pipeline crammed down their throat as well. He reiterated he was concerned for the safety of the children, with at least a dozen on this block, and the extra traffic is not needed. He stated he did not see why, if worse comes to worse, the City could not put another cul-de-sac in on the other end, which he would think would be as attractive for the home buyers in the new development as it was for him. He inquired if there was some reason why this particular cul-de-sac must be eliminated. o Mr. Carlberg stated as they look at developments, they always examine what existing roads are out there that can be hooked into the development that is proposed, to insure that they have good traffic flows through neighborhoods. He explained that from a fire and safety standpoint, they do not want to see long, dead end cul-de-sacs, to access those areas. He advised that they would want to see through areas, and this is not the case in the case of Uplander and Swallow, which provided very limited access. He explained that the North Valley Ridge ties that all together, and those are all temporary cul-de-sacs, or temporary extensions. He stated another was Raven Street to the south, coming out of the Wittington Ridge, which was constructed as a temporary cul-de-sac for the future extension of those streets, from a fire, safety and maintenance standpoint, snow removal etc. He stated this is what is looked at, and they always recommend from the Review Committee standpoint, that they hook up any dead end roads where feasibly possible, unless they were designed to be a permanent cul-de-sac. He added that when they are designed to be a permanent cul-de-sac, it typically means there was nothing beyond that to develop in the future. Mr. Schempf inquired if theirs was not designed to be a permanent cul-de-sac. Mr. Carlberg stated he did not believe so. He stated it was designed a number of years ago. He explained that as they review these developments, if there are means to connect these long dead end cul-de-sacs, this is what they do. Mr. Schempf inquired therefore, if they were saying it was in their best interest, safety wise, etc. Mr. Carlberg stated this was in the City's best interest from a safety and maintenance standpoint, this was correct. He explained that for example, Uplander Street, if there was an accident that occurred at this street and 161 S\ and there was some emergency to the back of that development, there would be no access to the back of the development. He stated in terms of snow removal, having to go in C) and attempting to back out or turn around in those areas makes it very difficult. He stated it r ) '-~ o (J u () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 7 increased productivity to get through these neighborhoods from a street maintenance standpoint as well. Mr. Schempf stated Swallow and Raven streets were more than sufficient. Mr. Carlberg stated this is what is looked at, and the City has always grasped this, as other cities do, to attempt to hook these up, and under the City Ordinance, this is what they are charged with doing. Mr. Schempfinquired if there was a past history of problems with this cul-de-sac. Mr. Carlberg stated he was not saying there was any history of problems here, however, this is the experience that the City has, and the ordinance calls for hooking these streets together. Mr. Schempf stated he understood this, however, there haven't been any problems occurring at this poignant. Mr. Carlberg stated he was not aware ofthis. Mike Goetz, 15620 Osage Street stated his property was located in the Wittington Ridge area. He stated although he agreed with Mr. Carlberg in some regards, he also disagreed, in that he thought each cul-de-sac should be examined on an individual basis. He stated most certainly the cul-de-sac on Raven Street could be constructed a s a permanent cul-de-sac, instead of temporary, just from the standpoints that the Wittington Ridge area is comprised of2.5 acre lots, which is quite different from those to the north. He explained that the cul-de-sac which does run up there services basically two houses, and there would be no need to push that one through, from a safety standpoint. He explained that if there were an emergency to occur, they could certainly access the new neighborhood from 1 57th Avenue, and at that point it does not matter if they come down l56th and come up a block, or if the go up to l5ih and down a block, it would be the same. He reiterated that in light of this, they could probably look at each cul-de-sac individually, and decide based upon each circumstances. He stated he would strongly recommend this, and if they need community intervention on these decisions, they citizens could certainly help brainstorm with staff on these things, and determine the reasons to make them temporary or permanent. He stated they obviously have ordinances and the like, and obviously what Mr. Carlberg states is not the golden rule. He stated they do need City people to get involved and citizens as well, and the citizens were more than willing to get involved to resolve such issues. Jeff Wheeler, 15670 Raven Street stated he lives in the existing cul-de-sac on Raven Street, in Wittington Ridge. He stated the preliminary plat presented this evening adjoins their property directly to the north. He stated he agreed with the last two speakers. He indicated that they are in a 2.5-acre development, and the development that is being proposed is smaller acreage. He stated he had no problem with the proposed development, whatsoever, however, he does not want to see the cul-de-sac removed at this point. He indicated it has been four years since any development has r) 0 Regular Andover Planning "u~a Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 8 o moved into this area, and there have been no problems with regard to snow removal equipment, or any safety equipment in or out of the development, and he did not see any problems in the future. He stated there are only two lots between the Raven Street cul-de-sac, and the 15ih Street cul-de-sac that this would affect, and they do not perceive this to be a problem. He stated he has spoken with Mr. Fields, and believes to have a "gentleman's agreement," pertaining to the purchase of lot II, Block I, which directly adjoins his property, which will somewhat, he hopes, eliminate the need of that road going through since that property will be connected to his property. He reiterated that he does not intend to impose any hardship on Mr. Fields, and he agrees with the way the development is proposed, with the exception of the removal of the cul-de-sac. Mr. Carlberg stated there are four streets that dead end into this project, and all temporary cul-de- sacs. He stated that if all four of those were cut off there would be no access to this property. He stated this is why they look at the extension of streets in any of these proj ects. He explained that all of the subject cul-de-sacs were temporary, and were always extended to be extended through to those sites, to develop those sites, and what would occur, instead of having one entrance into the development where all the traffic would go, it would be dispersed throughout the development, and provides those people different options as to how to exit that development. o Brian Fluth, 15667 Raven Street stated he lived to the north of the proposed development. He stated that in the 2.5-acre development that he lives in, there is likely not one person that would ask for another entrance. He stated this was not a very big deal, in that there are not many homes in there, and they are 2.5-acre lots. He stated it makes no sense to them. Mr. Fluth stated the development to the north of them is aliI acres, and a little larger. He stated they purchased their 2.5-acre lots, under the impression that this would be the case around them, and as the Commission is aware, they had the Grey Oaks development across the street, which is quite different than this. He stated that in this area, tying into 15ih Street, and the lot that Mr. Wheeler had spoken about, it would work out very well. He stated it could come right off of the cul-de-sac there, and it would be tied in, with 15ih comes right in there to the other lot. He stated this is something that really needs to be considered. He advised that the residents of this area had spent quite a sizeable amount of money to purchase into this 2.5 acre development, hoping this would surround them, they have a very nice quiet neighborhood, and he does not believe anyone residing in this area is concerned about another entrance. He stated this has not been a problem, but rather a nice area in which to live. He reiterated that with the layout of the development, this would work out just fine, without any major change. He stated the issues of safety and snowplow removal are not really applicable in terms of this area, as it is a very small area with no prior problems in regard to these matters. () Mr. Carlberg advised that this item was to be the hearing on the land use change of the subject property, and the discussion has somewhat spilled over into the preliminary plat related issues. He suggested the hearings could be combined at this time for consideration, if the Commission so desires. u U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 9 u Chair Squires stated that the line between the two items blurs, and it is difficult to give the public guidance as to when they should reserve their comments, and when not, therefore, he was inclined to allow people to comment on everything. Mr. Carlberg stated this was fine, as long as they reiterate all of the items on the next item, and thought it would be appropriate they combine the items at this time. Chair Squires stated he would entertain a motion to open the public hearing on the preliminary plat, for which there would be a presentation, after which the public can continue to comment again if they desire. Mr. Carlberg stated this was correct, adding that staff has little to present, in that the project does comply with ordinances rather than the one variance. He suggested the Commission continue the public hearings and eliminate the staff presentation at this time. PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT - NORTH VALLEY RIDGE - 21 SINGLE FAMILY RURAL HOMES -ED FIELDS AND SONS. 0- Motion Dalien, seconded by Hedin, to open the public hearing at 7:35 p.m. Motion carried on a 6- ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Tony Howard, 2119 156th Avenue stated he had the same comments about the 2.5 acre versus the proposed 1 acre development, which would add much traffic to their neighborhood. He indicated they all thought it would be 2.5 acres around them, however, the Nightingale Preserve went to one- acre lots with a common area, and now this development is proposed with 1 to 1.25 acre lots. He stated this was a big difference in densities versus what exists. He stated he has nothing against building, but possibly this has to do with the way that this project is structured. He indicated he would anticipate that this traffic would all come through the south, and their project. He explained that these might be different avenues, with three or four different ways to exit the development, however, it would not be logical to think that anyone would go north to exit some of these other lots, to get out onto Nightingale or Hanson Boulevard. He stated they would more likely come south down Raven Street, to 156th Avenue, the shoot out to Nightingale. Mr. Howard stated this would increase traffic on the street on which he resides, and presents a safety issue for him. He stated that this, as well as the projects to the north that they are proposing to connect to, these people will not go to 20th Avenue. He stated they would not go to 157th Avenue, but rather go to 156th to reach Nightingale Street, so that adds the traffic from the proposed project, and the projects to the north to their development. He stated this was his concern. Mr. Howard suggested the developer connect their development with the Nightingale Preserve with a C) horseshoe, and then they would not have two dead end cul-de-sacs, but instead of having the long o U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 10 ,,--, U stretch of road, all of those lots could come down and take Raven and swoop that into 15ih, that would eliminate a lot of traffic, and they could do something else with the other two streets. He stated he is a masonry contractor, and has nothing against development, but there are other means to do this. He stated he and one of his other neighbors were willing to discuss purchasing one of these lots from Mr. Fields in order to have their cul-de-sac remain closed. Mr. Howard stated the lots north of this development, where construction is allowed only on every other lot, what would occur when they open the other lot, or split the lot to put another house on it. Mr. Hinzman pointed out that this was done in case City water and sewer came through, however, this was not proposed to occur in the future. Mr. Howard stated this was the future, and times change just as the other things occur, and they could possibly double the houses on that street. He stated this is why they would be willing to sit down with City staff and work their way through each cul-de-sac. He stated Mr. Carlberg had his work number and could contact him to arrange such a meeting. He indicated they simply did not desire to blow it on this deal, and would like it to be right for a change instead of wrong. He stated they were more than willing to sit down and discuss this, rather than just connecting the roads. ,'" V Carla Krueger, 15955 Uplander Street stated they had purchased their lot six years prior, because of the privacy the cul-de-sac provided, and this was one of the main selling points for them. She stated she liked the idea of attaching the two cul-de-sacs together, because her main concern is that she is the first right hand turn to get into the new development if coming off of Round Lake Boulevard. Mrs. Krueger indicated she has two handicapped children, and to her, this is a safety concern. She stated she agreed with the proposal to sit down with City staff and discuss other options. Mary Cook, 15964 Uplander Street stated they also purchased their home because of the cul-de-sac, and this appears to be a common theme among her neighbors. She stated she was not one to complain unless she has a solution or an idea, and one of her ideas would be to slightly reconfigure the location of the cul-de-sac. She stated she had concerns with regard to the High School, and if the High School is to go in behind the homes, students may decide to take the path, and drive right down their streets. She stated their street is not very wide. She explained that if no cars are parked on it, two cars could pass. She stated there were no sidewalks or paths along the street, and if they had a through street, it would increase the traffic not by 21 homes in the new development, but also possibly by 22 more of the homes south of the development which would be cutting through. She stated this seemed like much traffic coming through their neighborhood. Mrs. Cook stated there are 12 homes on their street, 13 counting Mr. Field's house that exist beyond the cul-de-sac, and in those homes there are 14 children under the age of 18, in 7 of these homes. She stated the remaining homes are primarily comprised of grandparents who have grandchildren visiting, therefore, there are many children in their neighborhood, and safety is a big issue. She o o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 11 o stated they wanted people to travel this neighborhood at slow rates of speed, and if they do lose the cul-de-sac, inquired what they could do to get speed bumps. There was no other public input. Motion by Falk, seconded by Hedin, to close the public hearing on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment and the Preliminary Plat at 7:45 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Falk inquired if any trails or walking paths were proposed for this development. Mr. Hinzman stated there was nothing proposed with the Plat for this, at this time. Commissioner Dalien inquired regarding the purpose of the large outlot. Mr. Reynolds indicated the area on the plan identified as Outlot A is identified by Mr. Fields to continue to be used as a farming area for sod and so forth, in his normal day to day business. Mr. Hinzman noted that this area falls of quite a bit, and is a lower peaty area. o Mr. Reynolds stated there is a small area, which might at some point be appropriate for development, but in the density factor and the area, it did not at this time appear to be financially feasible to extend a road down into this area to pick up possibly one lot. Mr. Carlberg stated this was an item of discussion in the Sketch plan review phase, in terms of what was the intentions on that, and whether or not it could be serviced, and it appeared that this would not be feasible through the Sketch Plan process. Chair Squires stated it was interesting to receive the comments from the property owners of the 2.5- acre lots in the south, who indicated concerns regarding people from the north coming down into their developments, and vice versa. He stated they have their own unique concerns. He stated he was not on the Commission when the plans for the 2.5 acre lots and the smaller lots in the R-3, along Uplander and Swallow came through, however, if the information is correct, when those plans were approved, they were approved with the streets stubbed to the property line, and temporary cul-de- sacs installed with the intent that they would in the future be extended into the property. He stated he lives on a cul-de-sac, and is aware that there is a benefit to that, and he realized that if those streets were extended that would change the situation for some people, however, because the stubbing and the temporary nature of that was part of the approval process at the time that these lots were even platted out, is an important consideration when they come to discuss the extension of those streets in terms of future development. He stated the traffic safety concern as well. He stated the pipeline runs from the southeast to the northwest around these properties, and appears to extend across Swallow and across Uplander which would be two accesses. He stated the traffic safety issue is an important one, and one all would hope would never have to be dealt with, however, he (J remembers back to the Mounds View Williams pipeline situation, in which the pipeline exploded, o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Pagel2 u and people were killed, and prevented access from a number of different directions to those homes in Mounds View. He pointed out that the Fire Department Emergency Vehicles must be provided access, and there are situations that can occur, where their access is impeded in one or more respects. He explained that this situation, because of the location of the pipeline, is a prime example, where theoretically, there could be situation where the safety of someone might be impacted by having limited accesses, and preserving cul-de-sacs, where that access may be cut off due to come catastrophic event with regard to the pipeline. He stated this is one of the considerations that must be examined in this case, when the streets were stubbed from the north, as well as the southeast comer. o Chair Squires stated there was no means to predict how many people from Uplander Street might use these connectors to get onto Nightingale Street, and circulate down to the south portion of Andover, so it may not just be the additional homes that are proposed at this time, but also some of the north traffic coming through and going to the south or vice versa, but the concern that was expressed in regard to thinking this was going to all be 2.5 acres, and it was no going to be just 1 acres, when the calculations are considered, the difference for this entire piece of property represents a difference of 10 or 11 homes. He stated this must be kept in context as well. He stated he did not believe they were talking about a huge number of homes, and massive amount of traffic generated by this development, in terms of the difference between 2.5 and 1 acre parcels. He stated the primary concerns, as he hears them at this time, are the continuation of streets, and how that might affect the existing property owners along Uplander and Swallow, and then those down along the south, along 15ih and 156th Avenues and Raven and Osage Streets as well. Commissioner Apel stated he would like to see a little more work done on this particular project, and a little more interfacing of the staff with the people who are going to be affected by it. He stated he did not believe there was a lot that could be done to conform to their wishes, however, it would cause no harm to spend more time with them on a one-on-one basis. He stated there may be an epiphany, although there is probably not one to get, however, if they don't attempt to, they probably won't get there at all. Commissioner Hedin stated he agreed. He stated he would particularly like to see some examination of the suggestions, particularly those which involve the curving around reconfigurations of the cul- de-sacs, to see if that could be worked out without losing what the developer is attempting to do with the lots. Commissioner Dalien stated he agreed with Chair Squires in that it is important to have a lot of different accesses to this area because of the pipeline. He stated he was not aware there were too many other possible configurations that would accommodate all of the people present, because everyone would like to maintain their own cul-de-sacs, and he could certainly understand this, however, in most case, from the newer developments, they were platted with the intention of extending the streets through, and the only one he was not positive of was the development on o Uplander Street, because that is somewhat older. He stated people who purchased into these u U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 13 o neighborhoods either were aware, or should have been aware that the streets were intended to go through, therefore, he does not feel uncomfortable in extending those. He stated he felt that all of these accesses were important, particularly in this certain area, because of the pipeline. Commissioner Falk stated he felt that this was necessary for the safety of the residents, whoever, he also agreed that the developer and the residents should have gotten together and worked out an agreement to their best ability. He stated he agreed with both Commissioner Apel and Chair Squires in this regard. Commissioner Kirchoff stated the benefits of dispersing the traffic over four different access points could significantly minimize anyone street taking the full load of traffic. He stated the area certainly needs to be developed, and has the right to be developed on some level. Chair Squires also pointed out that this represents the difference between 11 homes or 20 homes. He stated the amount of additional traffic would not be that significant, adding that he used to live on a cul-de-sac, where people would drive into it, and drive back out because they were lost. He pointed out that the extension of the streets might eliminate the trips coming back out of those streets. He stated by dispersing the access amongst the four, he did not believe everyone would choose 156th Avenue to exit the development, because they have different destinations. u Mr. Reynolds stated with regard to the density issue, in terms of the 2.5 acres and the proposed density, with approximately 38 acres, one would be able to place, in theory, 15 homes, as far as the density factor is concerned, therefore, they were only talking about a difference of approximately six homes. He indicated they have proceed on this plan at the direction of the City Council, and the direction of staff, and an extensive amount of time has been involved in terms of the current layout. Motion by Dalien, seconded by Hedin, to recommend to the City Council approval of the Resolution No. R -00, a Resolution Amending the Comprehensive Land Use Plan of the City of Andover to Change the Land Use District Designation from A, Agricultural Preserve to RR, Residential, Rural on Approximately 28 Acres Located in the SW Vi of the SW Vi of Section 15 by Ed Fields and Sons. (PIN 15-32-24-33-0001). Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Chair Squires stated he would entertain a motion on Item 5, the Preliminary Plat, keeping in mind that there was limited discussion on this item, and the only substantive consideration with that includes the variance request that was briefly touched upon by the applicant, and everything else in the Staff Report appears to suggest that it conforms to the City Ordinance standards. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Dalien, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. R -00, a Resolution Approving the Preliminary Plat of North Valley Ridge by Ed Fields and Sons Located in Section 15, Township 32, Range 24, Anoka County Minnesota. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. o Regular Andover Planning ~2 Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 14 () Commissioner Dalien inquired regarding the variance. He stated the building area is normally 150 by 150 square feet, and inquired if they were making this the same square footage. Mr. Reynolds stated they would be making the same square footage, however, because of the shape of the highland on the existing parcel, it is impossible to maintain the 150 by 150 foot building pad on that parcel. He stated the building pad would be somewhat irregularly shaped, due to its proximity to the pipeline. He explained that they have pulled the pad away from the pipeline, and also in order to allow for the septic area in back of the building pad, and again avoiding the pipeline area, it is necessary to make the pad approximately 200 by 100, or longer more south, than it is in depth. He explained that there was still adequate room to place a normal sized structure on that parcel, however, it does not conform to the 150 by 150 standard. Commissioner Falk inquired regarding the distance between he building pad and the pipeline. Mr. Reynolds stated it is their belief that the pipeline is centered in the easement, and the proposed edge of the building pad appears to be approximately 40 to 45 feet from the edge of the pipeline. (j Mr. Carlberg stated this item would be considered at the March 6, 2000 City Council Meeting. He noted the meeting date had been moved to occur on a Monday night, rather than the regular Tuesday night City Council meeting. Chair Squires noted that some of the residents in the area had indicated a willingness to work with staff, and he would presume staff was willing to engage in some discussion and address some of the concerns that they have. He stated the residents could also dialogue with the developer between this time and March 6, adding that sometimes things change between the Planning and Zoning Commission consideration and that of the City Council, and that could be accounted for as well. PRESENTATION: PROPOSED WOODLAND CREEK TOWNHOMES - PRESENTATION BY WOODLAND DEVELOPMENT. Mr. Carlberg provided the Commission with a map indicated the general location of the project. He stated it lies on the northeast comer of Marigold Street and Bunker Lake Boulevard, located to the east of the farmstead project in that area. Byron Westlund, representative of Woodland Development stated this parcel of land was purchased in 1986, and went through the platting process, and was approved for the Planned Unit Development called Woodland Creek. He stated this proposal was for a 9-hole golf course, five phases of residential housing, and 4.8 acres of commercial property, along Bunker Lake Boulevard and Marigold Street, which was zoned as Neighborhood Business through the plat approval. He stated they filed covenants and restrictions on their lots, however, when they did that, they neglected to exempt lot 1, Block 8, which is the 4.8 acres, even though it was platted as Neighborhood Business () () o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 15 o under the platting process, they put a restriction on it, identifying it for residential use only, thereby creating their own conflict. Mr. Westlund stated in September or August of 1999, they commenced a torrens process with Anoka County as a court action to attempt to amend the covenants and restrictions. He stated there was some opposition at the court hearings that resulted in two meetings with some of the residents of Woodland Creek. He indicated he had not been part of that meeting, however, in his understanding, the current proposal was somewhat of a compromise that the residents would accept. Mr. Westlund stated they were proposing 19 lots, 18 of which would be for residential use, and the 19th lot would be for the green space or common space, which would be owned by the Association, and would include all of the yards, the driveways, streets, etc. u Mr. Westlund stated they are the developer and builder of the Majestic Oaks Townhouse. He stated they have built and closed on over 135 of those units located in Ham Lake, and it is their intention to build similar units in the 4.8 acre area, if this proposal is approved. He indicated that the plat is already in the MUSA, serviced with sewer and water, and stubbed on Marigold Street, therefore getting utilities to the lots should be no problem. He stated they propose that the streets, sewer and water would be done privately by themselves, owned by the Association, however, installed to City standards and specifications. Mr. Westlund stated they were unique in that they are one of the few builders who allow their customers to design the interiors of their homes to fit their needs and specifications. He stated they were looking at a 1,445 square foot unit, and the base price without the lot would be approximately $160,000. He stated they were uncertain regarding the price of the lots, as there are some details to be worked out with the City yet. He provided an example of their typical buyer, which was a couple that had closed on a unit last Friday, a couple in their mid to late 50's. who owned a four-bedroom home in Andover, and sold that and moved into one of the townhomes at Majestic Oaks. He explained that they moved from the larger home, into one of the townhomes, where it is a maintenance free living situation. He stated the townhome itself is all maintenance free, with the common space, snowplow, snow removal and all ofthe yard work done for them. Commissioner Apel stated he believed all were familiar with the Majestic Oaks townhomes, which appear to be of very high quality. Commissioner Kirchoff requested clarification in regard to the separation between the local development road, and Bunker Lake Boulevard and the sidewalk system. o Mr. Westlund stated currently, along the west side of the plat, there is a split rail fence comprised of brick columns, and they would propose to extend that to provide a separation between the pathway along Bunker Lake Boulevard, and the private driveways for the townhome units. () 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 16 ,,- '\ \J Mr. Carlberg eXplained that since this is the initial time that is before the Commission, and the Sketch Plan sets the tone as to how this proposal will proceed in the future, staff would like to present their Staff Report on the Sketch Plan, prior to opening the public hearings_ He stated it would also be appropriate to have a brief Staff Report on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment to provide an understanding in terms of this as well, after which the public hearings could be opened for comment. PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN - WOODLAND CREEK TOWNHOMES _ 18 TOWNHOME UNITS - SECTION 32 - WOODLAND DEVELOPMENT. Mr. Carlberg stated he would be presenting the Sketch Plan item, and Mr. Hinzman would follow up with the issues of the Comprehensive Plan, and the land use changes. ( ') 'J Mr. Carlberg stated Mr. Westlund had provided an overview of the project, in terms of the number of units, the acreage, and that it is located in the Urban Service Area. He stated staff also includes in the Staff Report a number of boilerplate items related to the 1 DO-year flood elevation, in terms of the permits that are needed from the various watershed districts and local governments. He stated this information also includes the types of ordinances that may come into play, such as the Zoning Ordinance, Platting Ordinance, Flood Plain Ordinance, and Planning and Development Ordinance. He stated there is a component on every Staff Report which includes the comments of the Andover Review Committee, which is a committee comprised of various department heads in the City, from Engineering, Planning and Zoning, Streets, Public Utilities, Fire and Safety, Police Department, and others. He stated they review the Sketch Plans initially, and create a list of items that the Commission and Council will need to address, pertaining to items they review in their day to day process. Mr. Carlberg stated the Andover Review Committee met on Thursday, February 10 to discuss the Sketch Plan, and have provided six comments that need to be discussed. He provided an overview of these comments. He stated the first item related to the private streets, which are proposed in the development, which would be coming off of Marigold Street. He stated the Review Committee commented that a 28-foot street width is acceptable, provided there is no parking on either side of those streets, and it would have to be assigned accordingly. Mr. Carlberg stated the second item relates to a 12 foot bituminous fire lane located along the eastern side of the project. He stated it is recommended to be a part of the private street system, and be 28 feet wide as well, and adjustments be made to provide good circulation through the entire area. (J Mr. Carlberg stated the Review Committee has some concerns regarding the access to Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated the Sketch Plan is also submitted to Anoka County for review, and they will respond to this in writing, and staff is aware there will be concerns with direct access to the project from Bunker Lake Boulevard as well. He stated the County would prefer that access be taken from u 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 17 u collector streets and then come out to main points, therefore, in the future, signals and improvements could be warranted at those main intersections. Mr. Carlberg stated additional discussion would be required as pertains to the internal sidewalks and trails. He stated a trail system exists along Bunker Lake Boulevard as part of the Regional Trail System, however, discussion will also be necessary as they proceed with the Sketch Plan, in terms of a potential trail or sidewalk system along Marigold Street, within the development to get people to the trail along Bunker Lake Boulevard. He explained that the Commission might wish to provide a recommendation in this regard as well. Mr. Carlberg stated the Andover Review Committee is also recommending that a right turn lane be constructed along Marigold Street NW to allow vehicles to move out of the flow of traffic, as they exit Bunker Lake Boulevard onto Marigold Street, which will create a safer entrance into the development. Mr. Carlberg stated the sixth item pertains to the maintenance of streets, signs, etc, which will need to be addressed in the association documents. He stated this was a private development, therefore they need to insure there are provisions for the ongoing maintenance of the streets and signage, etc. () Mr. Carlberg stated the Sketch Plan phase provides the first opportunity to review the concept of the project, and from this point, street alignments and access to both City and County road systems are discussed so that when the developer leaves the Planning and Zoning and City Council meetings, he has a good understanding ofthe general layout out of his project. Chair Squires stated the comments pertaining to increasing the width of the fire lane from 12 to 28 feet, constructing a right turn lane off of Marigold Street into the subdivision, is it possible to do both of these things. Mr. Carlberg stated the recommendation is that these items be examined, adding that this is the first time the developer has heard these comments as well. He has not been aware of these things, and these are matters that staff would pursue from this point forward, and if it is in the general interest of the Commission and the Council, to attempt to get these things resolved. He noted that prior to the Council consideration, there may be some revisions, but this is the first review. Commissioner Falk recommended there be a trail on Marigold Street, going south toward Bunker Lake Boulevard to connect to the sidewalk in this area. He inquired if there would be a right turn lane onto Bunker Lake Boulevard at the southeast corner of the development from which to enter the project. Mr. Carlberg stated a right turn lane already exists in this location, and this is one that the County will respond to in terms of a right in right out which might work. He stated they would need to work o through that issue with the County, as this is a four-lane highway, and they attempt to limit access to o o U 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 18 it, so that it does function from a traffic standpoint, and there are not a lot of conflict points coming onto that County road system. He stated the County would respond to this, and staff would review this with the County and the developer in the near future. PUBLIC HEARING: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT (CPA 00-03) - CHANGE LAND USE DISTRICT DESIGNATION ON PROPERTY OWNED BY WOODLAND DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF MARIGOLD STREET NW AND BUNKER LAKE BOULEVARD NW FROM RU, RESIDENTIAL URBAN SINGLE FAMILY TO RM, RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY BY THE CITY OF ANDOVER. Mr. Hinzman provided an overview of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment Staff Report. He indicated what is being proposed on this site is a change from RU, Residential Single Family, to RM, Residential Medium Density. He explained that the standard density for the Urban Development, Single Family is approximately 2.1 units per acre. He stated the maximum density allowed in this district is six units per acre. He stated the reason this site was considered for this type of development was because of its proximity to a major roadway, and also some existing multiple family housing with The Farmstead located to the west. Mr. Hinzman stated the City has reviewed this proposal and has a couple of comments on that. He stated there are four or five homes that back up to the site from 13 8th A venue. He stated there is an existing berm in this area currently, however, landscaping and so forth should be considered in this area to insure that there is a good separation between those two uses. He indicated the proposed gross density of this project is approximately 3.75, which is well under the six units per acre that could be built under the Residential Medium Land Use District. He provided the Commission with pictures of the proposed site. Commissioner Hedin stated he would assume the Metropolitan Council would look favorably on higher density in this area. Mr. Hinzman stated he agreed. Chair Squires pointed out that they have discussed Grey Oaks over the past several months, and when that land use designation was changed to Multiple Family, this was based upon an understanding of what the project would be, and then concerns about the nature of the project changing, but yet still being consistent with the changed zoning. He stated if the Council approves the Comprehensive Plan Amendment to Medium Density, and the Zoning is also consistent with the Multiple Family, and the developer chose to undertake a different type of project, would the developer be permitted to proceed with this. Mr. Hinzman explained that initially the developer would require a rezoning for the site, which would probably come at the same time the preliminary plat is submitted for the parcel. He stated that upon the completion of those two processes, the developer could go under the maximum limits o for that zoning, which under the RM District is 6 units per acre. o Regular Andover Planning ~d Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 19 o Mr. Carlberg noted another component. He indicated on July 21, 1987, when the developer received a special use permit to develop this project as a planned unit development, that lot was approved as Commercial Neighborhood Business. He explained that the developer would have to make application for an amended special use permit, and amend his original development proposal, to change it from commercia] to a Multi-Fami]y. He stated that as this proceeds, conditions can be added to the amended special use permit similar to those made with the Grey Oaks special use permit, and these conditions can be related to senior empty-nester. Chair Squires inquired therefore, that there was a mechanism to be able to tie the approval of higher densities to a particular plan that is presented. He stated this was important because people attend the public hearings and come to believe something that is being proposed, and then see something radically different, there is disappointment in the process, and he would like to insure that there is a mechanism to accomplish this if the Commission feels that is appropriate. Chair Squires stated he would entertain separate motions to open the public hearings on the Sketch Plan and the Comprehensive Plan Amendment at this time. o Motion by Da]ien, seconded by Fa]k, to open the public hearing on the Sketch Plan of Woodland Creek Townhomes Section 32, at 8:23 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Apel, to open the public hearing on the proposed Comprehensive Plan Amendment to change the land use designation from RU, Residential Urban to RM, Residential Medium Density at 8:23 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. Terry Holm, 3220 138th Avenue NW, stated her home is one of the four, which backs up to the proposed site. She stated she had no problems with regard to the townhome project, and appreciated the developer taking time to listen to the residents needs, however, she was concerned regarding the berm, in that there would have to be some type of separation between the two properties, whether that be trees or landscaping or otherwise, as long as something is provided there. She stated they have planted 15 evergreen trees on the back of their property, to provide some separation, which is at 10 feet currently. She stated the she would like to insure that when the project proceeds to construction, the developer does not come so close as to damage their trees, which were quite expenSive. Mr. Westlund noted that the current berm is located on the north property line of the proposed site. He indicated the intent would be to leave this berm in place, and potentially add some smaller evergreen trees and p]antings to the area. He provided pictures of the rear of the townhomes, adding that they find that oftentimes, since the people do their own landscaping which is allowed with their projects, that the townhomes become very attractive from the rear view as well. He stated they have not gone into the full grading and drainage plan at this time, however, they would like to leave this U berm in place. Regular Andover Planning ~) Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 20 o Mr. Carlberg stated as part of the process, a landscape plan would be requested of the developer, which would require City Council approval, prior to any final plat approval, therefore, there can be additional plantings required in that area to provide a screen between the Single Family Use and the Multi Family. He stated more would be involved in this matter as the process proceeds. Bruce Dynes, 3155 Bunker Lake Boulevard stated he was located east of the proposed site. He stated he would like to work with the developer as far as what they could have for a common area, including the present berm located in this area, for security and visual standpoints. Mr. Westlund stated the berm located on the eastern property line has been put in place by this property owner, and is located on his property. He stated because the parcel was very flat, they do not anticipate significant grading, however, reiterated that they have not gone into the full grading and drainage plan details. He stated the berm is on Mr. Dynes property, obviously it would remain in place, and if it is located on the proposed site, they would work with Mr. Dynes to attempt to keep it. He pointed out that they had worked with Mr. Dynes in terms of the original installation of the berm, adding that this concern could be resolved very easily. o Kevin Johnson, 3210 139111 Lane stated his concern was with regard to the traffic, and requested the developer could indicate the number of trips and vehicles utilizing Marigold Street for ingress and egress daily. He explained that this intersection does not have any stop signs or traffic signals, and he was concerned regarding how many more cars would be going through the intersection as well. Mr. Westlund stated that based upon their clientele at Majestic Oaks development, they were targeting the same market. He explained that most of these homebuyers have one or two cars, many of them work at home, many do not work and are retired. He stated many of these people are snowbirds, who are only present during the summer, and leave for warmer climate in the wintertime. He stated he was not certain what the specific traffic counts would be, however, with this type of housing, the number of trips would be significantly less than those of a single family development. Mr. Carlberg added that normally there would be 10 trips per day on a single family home, which is the standard utilized by the Metropolitan Council in terms of traffic generation. He explained that a townhome usually uses approximately 6 or 7 per day. He stated there are not a large number of children in these developments, which are comprised primarily of empty nesters, therefore there are a lesser amount of trips. He pointed out that the numbers for 55 or older empty nester developments may even go lower than this, where the residents are not as active. Chair Squires stated this proposal was very similar to that of the Sunridge development proposal south of Commercial Boulevard where the residents also had a concern regarding traffic. He stated they had a traffic study done on what the traffic would be generated by similar townhomes, and the study indicated that there would be less traffic even with the increased density, that Single Family. CJ He stated this appeared to make sense. He explained that he has three children, and was aware how o o o Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000. Page 21 many times they go in and out for activities. He stated that when that aspect is eliminated, and the primary market is for those individuals who do not have children any more, the traffic numbers are substantially different. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Apel, to close the public hearing on the Sketch Plan of Woodland Creek Townhomes at 8:30 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Dalien, to close the public hearing on the proposed Comprehensive Plan Amendment to change the land use designation from RU, Residential Urban, to RM, Residential Medium Density at 8:30 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Dalien stated this looks like an appropriate use for this particular piece of property. He stated he drives by the site quite often, and has always wondered what would potentially go in there, and with the farmstead directly across the street, and the round barn in that area, it seems like the natural thing. He added he was pleased that Woodland Development was able to work something out with the residents to the north, in that he was certain this presented concerns for them, and this proposal appears to be a reasonable compromise. Commissioner Hedin stated it is always nice to hear that the developer is working with the neighbors to resolve the issues. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he concurred in that this appears to be a good use, as it fits in with the farmstead, an potentially connecting over to the town center. Mr. Carlberg stated this item does not require the formal approval on the Sketch Plan, but rather, the Commission would be forwarding this item with comments to the City Council, and if they accept the comments of the Andover Review Committee as a part of this, then staff would raise these issues when the matter goes before the City Council. Chair Squires inquired if the Commission concurred with the Review Committee comments that were discussed. Commissioner Palk stated he did. He inquired if they included looking at the other access point on Bunker Lake Boulevard and attempted to find something to eliminate it. Mr. Westlund stated they were not certain what the City would be looking at in terms of fire lanes, and safety issues, therefore, this was incorporated as a secondary access for emergency vehicles only, and was not to be used for the residents to enter or exit the development ofT of Bunker Lake Boulevard. o Regular Andover Planning Qzoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 22 o Chair Squires stated it would be appropriate to have the City Fire Marshall and staff examine this issue, and take into consideration the County's comments, and then come forward with a recommendation to the City Council in terms of the appropriateness of that. Commissioner Apel inquired if there was something similar to that in an area of Commercial Park. Mr. Carlberg stated this was correct. He indicated where Jay Street was closed off to the residents to the south, there is somewhat of a knockdown. He stated they would discuss this with the developer prior to the City Council meeting on March 6, and present the comments for Council review. Chair Squires inquired if the Commission was in consensus with the Andover Review Committee comments. The Commission concurred. Motion Apel, seconded by Dalien, to recommend to the City Council approval of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment for the property from RU, Residential Urban to RM, Residential Medium Density. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. Chair Squires stated this item would be considered at the March 6, 2000 City Council meeting. o PRESENTATION: PROPOSED HARSTAD TOWNHOME DEVELOPMENT PRESENTATION BY HARSTAD COMPANIES. Mr. Carlberg provided the Commission with a map, which indicated the general location of the proposed Harstad Townhome Development. Martin Harstad, Harstad Homes Corp., stated they were proposing on a concept level only, 50 townhomes located on the wooded peninsula off of Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated they were proposing 50 townhomes, or 25 twin homes, and two Single Family lots. He indicated the actual units themselves would have the entries off of Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated this would be an Association maintained type project. The two Single Family lots would be at the end of Woodbine Street, which currently is a dead end road. He stated they were proposing a breakaway gate at that point, because there are some issues involved with the length of the cul-de-sac in this location. He stated this would be a private drive, which would be maintained by the Association at the end of the cul-de-sac street. Mr. Harstad provided pictures of the proposed units. He stated he has been building one-level townhomes for ten years, and the proposed units would be a similar product to those built in Roseville, New Brighton, Woodbury, Plymouth, very well established communities that were available for examination. He stated they were proposing four different floor plans. He stated from the exterior, they are all alike. He indicated there would be a 1,544 square foot unit with no o basement, and a 1,544 square foot unit, which does have a basement, and an 1,886 square foot unit, Regular Andover Planning (~ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 23 o with and without basements. He stated the base price for these units would start at approximately $220,000. He stated there would be significant units that would go over $300,000 in this project. He stated there were some very nice wooded lots on this property. Mr. Harstad stated the time frame for the construction of the project would be approximately 3 years from start to finish. He indicated that he could not guarantee that, however, this is typical for a project of this size for his company. He stated they are before the Planning and Zoning Commission on a very preliminary basis, in order to receive input and determine the manner in which they should proceed. He explained that they would be very willing to hold a neighborhood meeting, if this type of project appears to be feasible. He provided the Commission with floor plans, exterior renderings, and layouts of the proposed units. PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN - HARSTAD TOWNHOME DEVELOPMENT - 50 TOWNHOME UNITSI2 SINGLE FAMILY - SECTIONS 29 & 30 - HARSTAD COMPANIES. o Mr. Carlberg stated the largest issue with the Sketch Plan is the proposed land use change to the Multi-Family designation from the R-4, Single Family designation, which would be necessary. He stated the area was scheduled for development in the 1995/2000 time frame in the existing plan, therefore, the high knoll area could be served by City sewer and water coming in from the Woodbine Street area, and could have developed in the last 5 years, although the property owner has not chosen to develop it at this time. He stated the property would have to be developed under the Development Policy Guideline, and there are some very strict timelines for preliminary plat submittal and approval in order to proceed. He stated the proposed project would not develop in 2000, but rather 2001 at the earliest, because it missed the July 1, and December 31 deadlines for preliminary plat approval. Mr. Carlberg indicated there were a number of boilerplate statements related to the different agencies that will be reviewing the proposal, the permits that are necessary, and which ordinances do apply. He stated the Parks and Recreation Commission will be reviewing the Sketch Plan at the March 2 meeting, to determine Park Dedication in accordance with Ordinance No. 10, the City's Platting Ordinance, Section 9.07. He stated the Andover Review Committee reviewed this project of February 10, and have provided their comments. He indicated some of the larger issues related to this project include a Municipal State Aid designation from Woodbine Street, which is the northern end, all the way through the project to Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated this is designated a MSA street in the City's future plan. He stated there is a fire access and knock down, however, not a through street in that area, and this will have to be discussed by the Commission and the Council as the project proceeds. o Mr. Carlberg stated there is a question in terms of if this project proceeds, and therc is an MSA street provided in this development, a regional bikeway/walkway system is provided along Bunker Lake Boulevard, as all the major arterioles in the City's are looking at regional trail systems in the urban areas, and the Andover Review Committee has recommended that a State Aid street be constructed at least 35 feet in width, if a bike route is going to be included in the street systcm. o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 24 o Mr. Carlberg stated there is a high area to the west of the area, refereed to as Upland 1, and there was a question as to whether or not that area is included in the project. He stated the Review Committee is recommending that all of the private streets be public streets, and that Statc Aid designation be examined. He stated if the project does proceed under the proposed project, a variance would be required to the 500 foot maximum cul-de-sac lengths. Mr. Carlberg advised that the Sketch Plan is the opportunity for the Commission to give general direction to the City Council, and which items they would like to see provided in this development, as far as the design, and the Council will consider the Commission's comments, and the Andover Review Committee's review on March 6. Commissioner Apel inquired if the Comprehensive Plan covers more area than is being discussed. Mr. Carlberg stated this is a small component of a larger Comprehensive Amendment located in the area, and there were a number of residents who were desiring to comment on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment for the entire area. He stated they were specifically dealing with the project located on the high knoll from Bunker Lake Boulevard to Woodbine Street. He stated there would be testimony under the Comprehensive Plan amendment on this, and the entire area on that item. o Motion Dalien, seconded by Apel, to open the public hearing on the Sketch Plan proposed by Harstad Development at 8:47 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Chair Squires stated the Commission has reviewed some of the materials submitted by residents, expressing concerns that are more global than the layout of this project. He advised that if there are specific comments that relate to this particular proposal, and the issues that are presented, those comments will be taken at this time, and when the Comprehensive Plan Amendment is underway, and they get into the larger area, comments related to that should be brought forward at that time. Pat Belousek, 14076 Aztec Street stated her property is the back yard of the east side ofthe proposed site. She stated she has lived in this location for 15 years, and at least half of that time, that area has been completely underwater. She stated this was a real concern. She inquired what the plans were for filling this area in. She stated she was not an expert in building and filling, however, she is aware that County Road 116 has serious problems because it was built on fill. She pointed out that if they fill the property in, where would the water go. She inquired ifit would go onto her property. Mrs. Belousek stated she drives out onto 140111 Avenue onto County Road 116 every morning to go to work, and sits there for as long as 5 6 or 7 minutes. She stated this does not sound like much time, however, to sit in traffic that long gets very frustrating. She stated she has seen very many near misses from people becoming frustrated in such traffic. o o o o Regular Andover Planning ~) Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 25 o Jack Brown, 4075 l46th Avenue NW stated the previous process had combined both of the public hearings together, and here the resents were only being allowed to comment on one aspect of this matter. He stated the change of rules on these items makes it difficult, in that the approval of this item would be in effect, and approval of all of these items. He stated it should all be discussed as a comprehensive issue, and not only specific to this one little piece. He stated he was concerned that the entire concept of Medium and High Density housing in the entire area be discussed in tandem. Dennis Reinhardt, 14279 Woodbine Street stated he lived on the cul-de-sac, where they are discussing making the road a State Aid road, which it never was. He stated this was a 30-year-old community, and it was basically unfair to do such a thing, in terms of putting the proposed density in the area, and changing their style of living completely. He stated he agreed that the entire project should be brought forward simultaneously, because one step does lead to the other, which is going to change things and make it more confusing for everyone. Mr. Reinhardt stated he had concerns with regards to the watershed, traffic, making the road a State Aid Road, and then going on to l43rd, which was never adequately upgraded with the previous development that went through in this location. He stated he was concerned about the rezoning and the density more than anything. He stated that this was one of Andover's first developments, and many of these residents have lived there for more than 15 years. He stated for many years people have been told by the property owner and City Hall, that Woodbine and other streets in that area are cul-de-sac or dead end roads because of wetlands. He stated now they are being proposed to change again. He stated overall they need to examine the entire project, and the amount of proposed density, and what is being taken away from the community. Patrick O'Neil , 14330 Yucca Street stated his main concern is the manner in which this development connects to l43rd Avenue, in light of the discussion over the past two years relating to the traffic problems, and how with the curving nature of the road, many people seem to believe this is their own private drag strip. He stated that if this development proceeds, he did not want l43rd Avenue and this development to connect, giving more traffic on l43rd, Yucca, 14Sth, Eldorado, and l4ih, where people cut across Round Lake Boulevard over to ih Avenue. He stated his primary concern was that this development does not add more traffic the existing traffic problems. Robert Manary, 14268 Woodbine Street stated they have lived at this location for five years, and when they purchased the house they were assured they had a cul-de-sac on the end, and now the rules are being changed. He stated the reason most of the people moved to Andover was the quality of life, and now they are considering putting in higher densities that are like all of the places the people moved from. He stated they have a rare opportunity to have City that is beautiful, livable and a good place to raise their families. He requested the Commissioners walk through the proposed area, which is a very narrow strip of sand, and he does not see how this type of density can be constructed on this land, without flooding out the rest of the property owners_ He stated they were all surrounded by wetland, and where would the water go. He stated he did not know how they Regular Andover Planning CJ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 26 o would control this. He explained that there were no ditches for the water to run off, and no place for it to go, except into the wetland. Mr. Manary stated the area is comprised of a multitude of animal and bird life. He stated deer come through constantly, pheasants, fox, mink, and in the summer there are geese and ducks being hatched, and this would all change. He stated there was no way to have this development, and leave the ecology intact. He stated they would just destroy a wetland, and there are not enough of those areas in Andover. He stated they are building everywhere in the City, and he understands that growth is necessary, however, the City should grown in a quality manner so that it is livable for those who reside in it. Chair Squires stated one of the things being considered at this time, is a change from Single to Multi Family. He inquired if the residents who had commented were opposed to a change from Single Family to Multiple Family, or opposed to any development of this property at all. o Mr. Manary stated he would prefer no development whatsoever, however, he understands that development makes cities and neighborhoods. He indicated however, that there was no way to build the proposed density on this narrow strip of land and not destroy everything that is there. He stated it is a very small sand strip, and at the edge of the sand strip, it is black muck, down approximately 20 to 30 feet. He stated this would have to be excavated, replaced with sand, and then concrete and asphalt would be placed over it. He inquired where the water would then go. He stated it would go up into the adjacent properties' backyards, and up into their houses. He requested the Commission walk the site to examine it. Mr. Manary stated there were funds available for State parks, he stated there were not enough parks in the City, and this presented a rare opportunity. He stated this was a beautiful area. He reiterated that the developers desire to develop and sell there land, adding that they all would like to be in that position, however, maybe there is a better use for it. He stated he did not see how they would protect the ecology, and put this type of housing in this area. He stated the proposed houses have no backyards, therefore, there was no place for the children to play. He stated the children would get into trouble because there is no place to play. He stated they might as well be in City streets in downtown Minneapolis because there is no room to play, adding that all were aware what this leads to. He stated these are very expensive homes, and appear to be very nice, however, this area is not conducive to this type of development. He noted that everyday people go through this area, either walking skiing, or walking their dogs through from both ends. He stated it was a very enjoyable and peaceful place, which would obviously change, however, this type of impact should be minimized. Mr. Manary stated he had researched his property before purchasing his homes, and was told that the cul-de-sac would continue to be such, however, now the City was changing the rules. Commissioner Apel requested clarification regarding the exact location ofMr. Manary's home. (J Regular Andover Planning C~ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 27 (~) V Mr. Manary stated he lived right on the edge of the cul-de-sac, on the end of Woodbine Street. He stated his property faced into the wetland, which was huge, and this would just fill up with water. He stated they have had some very dry years, and the water is fairly low, however, if they have a wet year, with all of the proposed concrete and asphalt runoff, and no place for that water to go, it will go into the people's basements, all away around the development. Fred Capra, 14036 Underclift Street stated the back of his home is facing towards the proposed development. He stated he purchased his home in 1987, and the main reason for purchasing this house was because they were informed there would be no building in that area, because it was reserve land. He stated at that time, he and his wife had seen other houses that were nicer, however, decided on this house because no one could build behind them. He stated the comments of the residents indicate that the homeowners have been misinformed by someone. He stated he feels that he was misinformed himself in 1987. He stated someone should be held responsible for all of this misinformation, and he was not aware of who this might be, however, this was the main reason he had purchased his home in this area. o Mr. Capra stated the previous summer he and all of his neighbors received letters from the City that grass clippings were being thrown back into this area, and there would be penalties for throwing grass clipping in this area, however, now it appears to be acceptable to put housing back there. He stated he did not understand this. He stated he agreed in regard to the potential water problems, adding that he would be one of those affected by this. Jan Manary, 14268 Woodbine Street NW stated they purchased their home, and like other residents, they looked at bigger and better homes, homes that would have fit their lifestyle much better than the one they live in currently. She stated they chose their home because of the lot, because of the cul-de- sac, and the wildlife that were drawn to this property. She stated she is a very avid birdwatcher. She has geese, and her geese have returned to have their young every year near their home. She stated this was a time they looked forward to as an entire family. She stated they have a lot of privacy, and were willing to live in a smaller home in order to have that privacy. She invited the Commission members to walk her yard in the spring. She stated it is always wet and soggy, and she was very concerned to think that the water from this development would be in her basement, rather than in the ground and that the wildlife that they enjoy and cherish will be gone. Mike LaBelle, 3858 143rd Avenue stated one of his main concerns is in regard to the traffic. He stated when the Meadows of Round Lake were built, 143rd Avenue was a through street from 7th to 9th. He stated he lived directly across the street from the park, and last year there were complaints pertaining to the traffic and the speeding into the park. He stated this proposal would add to that. He stated the area is beautiful, and there is a big homed owl that lives in the area as well, and if this bird is on the endangered species list, this should certainly be considered. He stated he was very upset about this proposal. He stated they were misinformed in that none of this land was supposed to be developed. (~) Regular Andover Planning C~ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22,2000 Page 28 o Rafel King, 14030 Underclift Street stated his property also leads to the back of the proposed site. He stated they have just experienced a problem in a refinancing situation in terms of the City stating that their property was possibly located in a flood plain, at this time, because of the relocation of the flood lines. He stated his main concern was in regard to the area between Round Lake and the surrounding wetlands, what has been changed already, he wondered if the developments in these areas have caused the flood plains and lines to be raised, and if they add more houses and further density in there, would this cause a further increase in the water levels, thereby causing everyone living in the area to be pushed up into a flood plain, because there is no place for the water to go, and if everyone surrounding this project would have to bear the expense of having to pay higher insurance rates to allow for the development of more houses. Larry Mueller 3810 l43rd Avenue stated he was concerned with regard to the wildlife habitat that would be destroyed. He stated he was aware there was significant wildlife in this area, adding that he walks his dog back there. He stated when he purchased his property, he was told that the subject property was owned by the Army Corps of Engineers and the DNR, and would not be developed. He stated now the story has changed, and he does not think this is right. o Charlie Ross, 3948 l45th Avenue inquired who has investigated the past promises that were made in terms of the statements that this area would not be developed. He stated he was one of the first houses in the Meadows of Rounds Lake, and was told that this property was owned by the Army Corps of Engineers and could not be developed. He stated he had to wait to close for 90 days, until the flood maps were re-drawn to approve the construction of his house. He stated the water was obviously a major concern at that point, and he wondered if they consider rezoning and putting more houses in, how much investigation has been applied toward this. He stated he property is still under the same constraints, and he is a fair distance from the proposed site, and during the summertime, after a good rain, the back 15 feet of his lawn is soaking wet, constantly. He stated he hopes someone takes a good look at this prior to approving any zoning changes. Tom Balski, 1446 Street stated he had lived in Andover for 22 years, and about 12 to 15 years ago, his property flooded due to high water. He stated if more houses are developed. He stated Ella could attest to this because her house was under water. He stated he did not understand this. He stated he doesn't understand why they were proposing $200,000 homes that won't go in because they would flood, but attempt to sneak in another low income home. He inquired why it is not one plot, and why it was being broken up into two. Scott and Maria Boylo, 14269 Woodlawn stated he lived at the end of the dead end street. He indicated his concerns were with regard to the traffic, the flooding from the wetlands, the property values, however, primarily because, they had selected their property because of the location, neighborhood, and because they were about to start a family. He stated they have live in their home for two years, and had selected it so that they could raise their children there. He stated now it would be opened up to traffic, which would completely change the area. He stated it was also their o understanding upon moving into the area, that the site was wetland and it would not be developed. o o r' U Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 29 o Mr. LaBelle stated he would like to clarify his first comment. He stated he was concerned with how Round Lake Boulevard connects to 143rd Avenue, to Yucca, 145tl1, Eldorado, and 14il1. He stated they have had problems with the City regarding traffic problems that the police are watching, and measuring the speed going through. He stated they have put in temporary speed bumps, and that has not addressed the problem of the traffic. He stated there were many children in the area, a park, adding that he did not believe putting up a chain link fence in the park was a solution to the traffic problem. He stated they should address the problem, and not attempt to keep kids fenced in, in a park. He stated he was concerned that this development does not generate extra traffic through Woodbine, onto 143rd Avenue. Chair Squires explained that the proposal was that the development was not to have access from Woodbine. Mr. O'Neil stated he was vehemently opposed to opening this road up to Municipal State Aid, as this would only exacerbate an already bad problem. Robert Belousek 1406 Aztec Street NW stated they have lived on their property for 15 years, and have had back yard flooding during times of heavy rains, which remains on the property for weeks on end. He stated if the developer puts a road down toward Bunker Lake Road to accommodate these houses, it would make it a constant flooding problem in their backyards. He stated there is a question in the integrity on the part of the City on this, because when they first moved there, they were told, like everyone else, that this area could not be developed because it is wetland. Secondly, about three years prior, some huge dump trucks were dumping fill directly in back of their property, and he had called City Hall to see what was going on. He stated the person at City Hall had indicated this was just temporary storage, which would be moved back out, and that they could not build back there. He stated this was twice, once 15 years earlier, and once 3 years earlier, plus all those people in between, who were told this. He stated this is a matter of integrity, and someone is not aware what someone else is doing. Mr. King stated he understood that the notification regarding this land change proposal is to be mailed out to residents within 350 feet of the proposed site. He pointed out that there are approximately 30 houses that are impacted by this application, that are outside the notification boundary, therefore, they are not even notified of what is occurring in their backyards, yet also enjoying the same wetland area, and have the same concerns with regard to flood waters and traffic. Chair Squires explained that the 350 feet is notification required by State law. He stated in addition to this, the City also publishes notice that people can read, and lately the City has been posting signs, and goes beyond the actual requirement. Mr. Carlberg stated there were two processes currently under consideration, which include the Sketch Plan of the development. He stated staff notified within 350 feet of the property that is Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 30 o proposed for development. He stated for the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, which involves a larger area than that being discussed with regard to the Sketch Plan, there was notification within 350 feet outside of that larger area. He stated people were notified of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment in the larger area, but only the Sketch Plan were notified within 350 feet of that project. He stated like the other Sketch Plans currently before the Commission, it relates to the specific area within the proposed project. He explained that they attempt to put proposed land use changes out in these areas, and many times they don't have enough signs, and are ordering more signs. He pointed out that this was a huge public hearing process for the City, with the largest agenda that they have seen before them this evening, therefore it was difficult to get the information out, however, they believe notification, as far as the Comprehensive Plan Amendment process, was distributed to the people based upon the number of people present. Mr. Reinhardt stated with the road coming through for fire and safety purposes, one fire department would send a vehicle from 116 which would be the most direct route, and the other would come from down from the north, down ih Avenue, and would end up in pretty much the same spot, therefore, he did not think that was a valid concern. He stated he had some friends in the Mounds View area during the incident with the pipeline explosion, and the fire had been directed right at them, because ofthe direction of their streets. He stated there are pros and cons with regard to this. o Mr. O'Neil stated the notice provided to the residents indicates that they would have to come down to City Hall to view the application. He stated most people work during the daytime hours, and are unable to get to City Hall to do this. He suggested the City put copies of the application in at one of the local libraries to the people most closely affected. He explained that libraries are open on weekends, and people could go to view the application, which may result in less misinformation when they come to public meetings. He stated he just started a new job, and did not have time available to get to City Hall to see the application, however, if it was at the local library, like the one at Round Lake Boulevard, or the main library on Highway 10, would make it available to him as well. Mr. Reinhardt stated the reason there is a large turnout at the current meeting, is because of word of mouth, not by the notification process. He stated people living directly across the street from him received no notice. Donna Berklane, 4060 l46th Lane NW stated up until last night she had no clue that any of this was occurring. She stated she had two young children, and had moved to Andover to start their life. She stated they enjoyed walking through their development, and were also told that nothing would be developed on the wetland. She stated she had been curious why there was a mound of dirt at the end of Eldorado Street, and had been informed that building had ceased in this area, because they had found a rare turtle nesting ground, and the DNR put an end to the building_ She indicated her children enjoy taking bike rides to that area to look at the wildlife that is there. She stated they have no sidewalks. She stated she was born and raised in northeast Minneapolis, and moved to Andover. o She stated there was an eminent danger for children just riding bikes on the same path that vehicles o Regular Andover Planning ~2 Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 31 are travelling on. She stated the corridor of 143rd Avenue, which curves around on Dakota Street, and the children that she sees on 143rd Avenue are at risk because the drivers do not care. She stated she has been driving the speed limit along this road, and has had young people behind her pushing her vehicle to go faster because they are in a rush to get where they are going_ She stated her property elevation was high, in comparison to most of the other people who had spoken, however, her back yard is saturated every time it rains, and the water remains standing for quite a long time. She stated she was concerned that even though her property is probably more protected than some of the other homes, as to what was actually proposed to occur. She stated they built in 1993, in the summer, and feel that their house is shifting. She stated that if these houses are built on less structured soils, what would happen to the structure of the homes over the years. She stated she was also concerned for the new homeowners of the proposed development. o Tim Neuholtz, 4165 146th Avenue NW stated he and his wife had moved to the community approximately 2 months ago, and do not leave anywhere near this particular development. He stated he had heard everyone commenting so far, and it appeared that they were all on the same wavelength. He stated the City has apparently gone through and figured out what they want to do with the land, and has made some decision which has resulted in this enormous turnout. He stated it was very clear to him that no one is interested in having this development move forward. He inquired who was accountable for this, and what the City intends to do. Chair Squires stated no decisions have been made. He eXplained that that is the reason they are sitting there today. He stated the Council has directed the Commission to hold a public hearing, to take public input, to take the citizens' comments and concerns, and then to go through the decision making process. He advised that it was incorrect to state that the City has made a decision, and inquire who is accountable. He stated he believed Mr. Neuholtz has the process backwards. He stated they want to hear what people's concerns are, and hear what the developer is proposing, and then make some recommendations. He stated ultimately the City Council would make the decision, not the Planning Commission, but that comes after this process. Mr. Neuholtz explained that in light of the planning which has already been done, and it looks like the project is moving forward, this appears to be the residents' one opportunity to comment. He stated the suggestion pertaining to putting information in the libraries prior to coming to this point, would be a good source of information for all. He stated that now that the Commission is aware of the viewpoint of the citizens, what action were they planning to take, from a City planning standpoint, if any. Chair Squires stated the Commission would indicate their feelings, after the closing of the public hearing, as they have done with the other applications. He stated at that point, it was up to the Commission to have some discussion regarding all of the concerns they have heard from everyone, and what the development proposal is, and how it fits into the City plans and ordinances, and then the Commission will make a recommendation to the City Council. He advised that this is how the process works. o Regular Andover Planning C/~ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 32 o Motion Falk, seconded by Hedin, to close the public hearing for the Sketch Plan at 9:29 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Chair Squires suggested the discussion of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment be discussed at this point as well, and then discuss all items together, so that people have an opportunity to have input on both matters before the Commission engages in discussion. At this time, Chair Squires called a brief recess. The Planning and Zoning Commission meeting reconvened at 9:35 p.m. ('" ....J PUBLIC HEARING: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT (CPA 00-04) - CHANGE LAND USE DISTRICT DESIGNATION ON THE PROPERTY OWNED BY ROSELLA SONSTEBY AND ARKLA (MINNEGASCO) IN THE VICINITY OF 7T1l AVENUE NW * BUNKER LAKE BOULEVARD NW FROM RU, RESIDENTIAL URBAN SINGLE FAMILY TO RM, RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY; RU RESIDENTIAL URBAN SINGLE FAMILY TO RM-2, RESIDENTIAL MULTIPLE DWELLING; AND RM, RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY TO RM-2, RESIDENTIAL MULTIPLE DWELLING BY THE CITY OF ANDOVER. Chair Squires stated City Planner, John Hinzman would present the Staff Report on Item 11, Comprehensive Plan Amendment to change a larger portion of property than that involved in the Sketch Plan from RU, Residential Urban to RM, Residential Medium Density, and RM-2, Residential Multiple Density. Mr. Hinzman reiterated that the City has initiated this action, so that the City can present this to the City Council as an option for development in the future. He provided the Commission with a location map, indicating that the area highlighted in yellow is currently guided for Residential Urban development. He explained that this represents Single-Family development, on average, approximately 2.1 units per acre. He stated a large portion of this area was proposed to be changed to RM, Residential Medium density, which could be constructed at up to six units per acre. He stated much ofthis area is wetland, and there appears to be some buildable land in the area where the proposed Sketch Plan is located. Mr. Hinzman stated the other area that the City would be looking at changing from Residential Urban development to Residential Multiple development, would be that area just south of Dehns Addition, which is south of 144th Avenue and east ofih Avenue, which is comprised of7 to 8 acres of buildable land. He stated in between this property, and toward the south, there is an area that is being considered for Multiple Residential higher-density units, which would be up to 13 units per acre. He indicated the first part of this is a redesignation that is currently designated for Multiple development, which is highlighted in orange. He stated this is located cast of Slim's Auto Body, on ill Avenue and County Road 116 on the north, and also between II G and 14151 A venue on the south side. He advised that one half of the pipe tank farm to the north would be designated for the high- o density residential designation as well. He explained that the reason for doing this is to center the Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 33 o higher density development on that main corner of 7th and 116, and to have the density be lower as you proceed from that point. Mr. Hinzman stated the western portion of that property, there is no proposed development at this time. He stated there was no indication from the landowners of anything that would be occurring specifically on that property. Mr. Hinzman stated less than 40 percent of the site appears to be buildable. The unbuildable wetlands buffer a lot of those areas towards the east and north end of the development, near Rosella's and The Meadows of Round Lake Additions. He stated this means that nearly 300 additional housing units could be constructed with this proposed change on the site. He explained that half of those units would be within the high-density area, abutting the Bunker Lake Boulevard and ih Avenue areas. He stated the closest this would come to Single Family development would be on the south side, near the city of Anoka, on the south side of 41st Avenue, with approximately 15 Single Family homes, which would be distanced approximately 100 feet from the site. He stated on the north side of the development would be the Dehns Addition, where the homes back up, and could be as little as 30 feet from the site. He indicated that with those two Single Family developments within very close proximity, that with the development proposal that would come through, they would need to take care that there be proper buffering and landscaping of those areas. () Mr. Hinzman outlined the Commission's options for action. He stated staff was available for comments from the Commission, after which time, the matter could be opened up for a public hearing. Chair Squires requested clarification with regard to the areas highlighted in dark red on the corner of 7th Avenue and both north and south of Bunker Lake Boulevard. Mr. Hinzman stated this area was zoned commercial, and was not proposed to change. Chair Squires inquired if the property to the east of that, which is highlighted in orange, and cross- hatched, both north and south of Bunker Lake Boulevard is currently RM, Residential Medium density, with a proposal to change that to RM-2. Mr. Hinzman stated this was correct. Chair Squires requested Mr. Hinzman explain the difference between the RM and RM-2 zoning designations. Mr. Hinzman stated the RM District would allow 6 units per acre, and the RM-2 would all 13 units per acre. r---- U o o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 34 o Chair Squires inquired if to the east of that, south of Bunker Lake Boulevard, the proposal was to change that from RU, Residential Urban to RM-2 as well. Mr. Hinzman stated this was correct. He indicated that the property, which was crosshatched, would be going to the high-density designation. He stated that of the area to the east, the southwest comer is buildable, and the remainder drops off into the wetland. Commissioner Hedin noted discussion pertaining to a Tri-City Civic Center. He inquired if that comer that is not designated commercial be considered for this. Mr. Hinzman stated currently this is proposed to be situated on the west side of ih Avenue in the City of Anoka. Commissioner Hedin inquired what would occur is Anoka desired not to participate in this proposal. Mr. Hinzman stated he was not certain. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Dalien, to open the public hearing on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment at 9:45 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. o lody Hitchtrik, 945 40lh Avenue, Anoka, stated she has been sending around a petition which she has provided to the Commission, and has obtained many more signatures than when entering the meeting. She read the petition as follows: "The current plan has these properties rated as RU, 2.1 units per acre, and RM, which is 6 units per acre. The City of Andover is proposing to change these to RM-2, which could be 10 to 13 units per acre. It should be noted that this usage appears to indicate that these units will include rental properties, which will be apartment complexes, and/or high-density townhomes. The residents feel that it would be highly unlikely that the County would allow a new access to occur on either ih Avenue or Bunker Lake Boulevard. The close proximity to the intersection and the amount of traffic would increase the occurrence of accidents. This leaves the access to occur of 41 sl Avenue. Much of the traffic would use 9th Avenue in Anoka as an entrance, and there are already traffic problems at this uncontrolled intersection. The City of Andover would be collecting taxes on their property, but leaving the problems up to the city of Anoka and the local residents. The city of Anoka maintains the strcet systems in this area, and will continue to do so. The city of Anoka would also be likely to be called to handle any police matters, due to the proximity to Anoka City limits. This higher proposed density is unacceptable to the residents in the neighborhoods south of 141 sl o Avenue. It is our contention that this will increase traffic, crime, lower house values, and put an o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 35 o overall detriment to the community. This is not something that should be built in a close proximity to Anoka High School, because of the potential for problems that will occur. It will encourage crime, increase traffic, and cause additional parking problems in the area. We, the residents of the city of Anoka and the surrounding area will be directly affected in a negative way by this proposal. We contend that the plans should remain as a Single Family, and the only change would be to change the westernmost parcel to Single Family also. I have some additional comments to make for you to consider before you agree to this amendment. You state that this is a Comprehensive Plan, and that there are no actual plans for development submitted. Although I question that, I will take you at your word. Consider this; you are swinging the door wide open for a high density development that will cause many problems, both for the residents in my neighborhood, but also for those in yours, and other surrounding communities. The future of high-density development would be in very close range to Anoka High School. There are currently 3,184 students enrolled in that school and the breakdown of where these students reside are as follows: o 1,235, or 39 percent of that population reside in Andover. 976, or 31 percent reside in Ramsey. 786 reside in Anoka, and a 25 percent breakdown, and the other 187 reside in Coon Rapids and _Township, and are approximately 3 percent each. Therefore, your proposed developments will affect constituents of your city, and all of the surrounding cities who have children currently attending Anoka High School, or who will be. I have also found out that the School District is considering building a school in the northeast comer of Bunker Lake Boulevard and ih Avenue, where you are also proposing a land use change of high density. I have spoken with Kirby Beck, who is a community Police Officer for the city of Coon Rapids. His sole purpose is to track and take initiatives on crime within the city in areas of high-density housing. I lived on Northdale Boulevard, by the Coon Rapids High School, in 1990, when the Camelot Square apartments opened. These apartments look extremely nice, and appeared well cared for, but the are located directly across and to the east of Coon Rapids High School, and Coon Rapids Middle School. We immediately in the neighborhood had notices of rapes and crimes that were increasing in our area. Mr. Beck confirmed this for me. He even stated that he would never recommend the building of a high density housing anywhere near a high school. Camelot Square has been in the top three for the most reported crimes, and has often been number o one, and these crimes were not and are not petty. There have been numerous shootings, a murder, o o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22,2000 Page 36 o and in one summer, there were 5 to 6 crack houses busted. I grew up in that area and there was not so much as a knife flashed. The big deal was maybe somebody once in a while getting into a fight. Mr. Beck informed me that they have noticed an influx of people from Chicago moving in, and being directly involved in some of these crimes. All of this is occurring directly across from two schools in our district. Coon Rapids High School even has a full-time security officer in the parking lot. Students have often skipped school, and consider it a party pass to go over to the apartments and participate in illegal behavior. I know we all think we have good kids, but we cannot put our heads in the sand, and say it won't happen to use, because it will. I doubt that anyone who has students attending the schools in our area wants the possibility for this to occur. o The last issue has been discussed by a lot of people here, but I want to bring it to your attention again, and it is the traffic. I have gotten the most recent traffic counts taken at Bunker Lake Boulevard and ih Avenue, as well as those at ih Avenue and 38[h Avenue, which is the entrance to the High School. They are as follows: On Bunker, across ih to the west, there are 10,063 cars per day, and that last count was taken in 1998. On Bunker across ih to the east, there are 12,506, and that was taken in 1997. On ih, across Bunker to the north, there were 12,346 cars, and that was in 1997. On ih, across Bunker to the south, there were 14,020 cars per day taken in 1997. The intersection at the High School takes 19,695 cars per day, and that was taken in 1999. On 38th Avenue, onto ih, the cross through street, takes 14,464, and that was in 1999. You are proposing over 300 more units in that area, and if you don't think that is going to cause a problem, I suggest you think again. These are heavily traveled roads, and they are becoming more so each year. In the County's current five-year plans, there are no plans for any changes to these intersections, and it does not appear that it is going to happen in the near future. Your proposed plans could create such a large influx of traffic it would make this an extremely dangerous area. There are already crosswalks in front of the High School that they can only use at their own risk because of the traffic. You have to go down to the light, and then you still might get run over. If the County denies access to Bunker from the land to the south, there is a potential for an increase from your projects, simply on the south side of Bunker to increase approximately 180 cars into our neighborhood directly, using 9[h Avenue as a cross over." Ms. Hitchtrik noted the comment that residents make an average of 10 trips per clay in their car. She stated that would be 1,800 more trips up and down her neighborhood, across one street. She continued: "This is only a short list because of the short amount of time that you chose to give us to review your o intentions. I think there are too many concerns for you to take action at this time. There are many o o () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 37 other possibilities than what have been proposed, and I have one last suggestion for Rosella Sonsteby to consider. If you're going to sell that land, sell that land at the south of Bunker to the city of Anoka, so that we control what happens in our community rather than having a single person or another city dictate what happens in our community." Barb Murray, 738 41 st Avenue, Anoka stated she appreciated the opportunity to give her comments that evening. She stated they purchased their home in 1987, and she had done her research in moving to Anoka County. She stated one of the things that attracted them to this area was the School System, the communities, and the sense of community. She stated she had much concern with regard to property values, in terms of what this proposal would do to the value of her home, with high density development across the street, within 100 feet of their property. o Mrs. Murray stated she has two students, one former, and one current Anoka High School students. She stated she was very much aware of the traffic flow, in that she deals with it on a daily basis. She stated she drops her son off at school and won't allow him to walk the short distance, because she fears for his life in terms of crossing ih Avenue. She stated she goes to work in that traffic, and sees accidents daily. Mrs. Murray stated Anoka High School is one of the largest in the State, which has overcrowding already, and with the potential for 300 additional sites, she is concerned what impact this would have on District 11 future school proposals. Mrs. Murray stated she has concerns with access to the property, in that it would be of 141 st Avenue, and not off of County Road 116. She stated 10 trips today is the Metropolitan Council estimate on Single Family travel trips per day, and this would greatly impact the current trafIic. Mrs. Murray requested the Planning and Zoning Commission oppose the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. She advised that it was necessary they be visionaries for the future generations. Karen Ames, 4310 144th Lane inquires why the people from Anoka who were present received notification, however, she lives right on the border, yet neither she nor any of her neighbors received notification. Mrs. Ames stated the Gas Company is located directly behind her dwelling. She stated she has live in that location for 20 years, and she has seen the Gas Company make huge holes in the ground, and bury barrels of unknown substances. She stated they had done this on a routine basis, and inquired if any though had been given to this in terms of the potential for contamination in this area. Mrs. Ames inquired if the City of Andover desired the City to be comprised of condominium type homes and all of the buildings to be similar. She stated she like diversity. She stated that with regard to the Cab Interceptor, she was informed that it was unavailable to come to her area, and that the Cab Interceptor in Coon Rapids was full, and would not be able to service any more areas, so that o Regular Andover Planning~2 Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 38 o the Champlin Cab Interceptor would be servicing their area. She inquired what Cab Interceptor would be serving the proposed site. Mrs. Ames inquired if there was any stipulation that the proposed site is wetland, and would always remain so, or if someone could come in and fill in that area, and continue to develop. She stated she was aware that at one time, the City of Andover had a stipulation that required that if they fill in one wetland, another area must be designated to mitigate this. She stated she knew the City of Andover has not been complying with that stipulation. Mrs. Ames stated she saw no parks set aside in this area. She stated she was aware there were no plans yet. She inquired why they were proposing to change the density, prior to knowing what types of homes or apartment buildings were proposed to go in. She stated these factors should be considered prior to changing the density of the area. She pointed out that a grade school was to be constructed across the street, on ih Avenue, and all of the children would be crossing this street, which was a safety concern. She requested the Commission consider all of these items, prior to making their decision. o John Lorsung, 5157 145th Avenue NW stated he was the individual who owned the easement in the Meadows of Round Lake. He indicated he had grown up in St. Paul in the Selby Dale area, and before Interstate 94 came in, it was a very nice little town. He stated within five-years after the interstate went through, 90 percent of the people left that neighborhood because their bikes were being stolen. He stated the house that he had grown up in, the windows were constantly being broken, and he and his friends were beaten up every day. Mr. Lorsung stated he had grown up with five young men. He stated one of them is in prison for armed robbery, one is in prison for killing his wife with an overdose of drugs, one is in prison for carrying a concealed weapon, and had shot someone with it, and he was the only one who got away because his mother had sent him to Boys Town. He stated he was attempting to paint a picture of something that might, or might not happen, however, he had lived in Brooklyn Park for two years, a mile for the Century Court apartments, and he left and moved to Andover, thinking that he would not have his children be raised in the same atmosphere he had been. He stated he thought all had similar fears. He stated if they wanted to construct something, they should build Single Family housing, which would not depreciate the value of their houses. Mr. Lorsung stated children are not taught in school to be leaders, but rather, followers. He stated they all had a legitimate concern with regard to the children. He reiterated that if they wanted to build something, they should build something that is good for the community. not something that will destroy it. Darrell Golden, 729 40th Lane stated he could not see the City agreeing to let the apartments be built there. He stated that even in the City of Anoka, if they go where the apartments are now, they have o more crime up there than any other place in the entire city of Anoka. He stated if they start building Regular Andover Planning ~2 Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 39 eJ o apartments out here, the crime would start at this end, and then the people in Anoka would be the ones to suffer. He stated they were putting all the expensive homes way out in another area, far enough away they would not have to be concerned about it. He suggested they construct the apartments out there, in the Edina of the north, Andover. Steven Garn, 3912 10th Avenue North, Anoka stated he could understand the need for Multi-Family or high density housing, but he does not think it is necessary to put it right in Andover, adjacent to a High School. He stated that with as much land as there is in Andover, there must be a better area, away from the wetlands. Brad Holland, 854 41 5t Avenue stated he purchased his house four years ago, because of its location. He stated it was a nice dead end road, which only turns right on 9th Avenue. He stated he did not desire to look at apartment buildings. He indicated he has small children, as do his surrounding neighbors, and if they change the zoning to put apartment buildings in, the traffic will all come down 9th Avenue, and his neighborhood. He stated the people of Anoka would suffer directly by this proposal. He stated the people who live at the end of the street already speed down the street, and traffic is already a problem there. He stated this would only stand to increase by building apartment buildings there. o Mr. Holland stated he was not opposed to building Single Family across the street, and it would be nice to have more neighbors, however, he was strongly opposed to building apartment buildings or Multiple Family buildings across the street. Sean Wolther, Associate Planner for the City of Anoka stated he had been asked to attend the meeting and provide brief testimony. He indicated that he was not at this time in opposition to the rezoning, however, they would like to have further opportunity to discuss the potential effects to the Single Family neighborhoods to the south, and the effects on traffic, and those concerns. He stated the City Council has not had the opportunity to speak with staff or the Planning and Zoning Commission about this, and would like to have that opportunity, therefore, would request that if they move forward in this process, they would table action on the item, and allow that to occur. Barb Gold, 3996 145th Avenue NW stated nothing she has heard from the City has been consistent with the things she was told when she purchased her house, in terms of the land being privately held, some of it being DNR held, and the likelihood that some would be built upon in the wooded area. She indicated she had an issue with regard to the compatibility of this type of use terms of location, and the existing traffic issues along 143rd and 145th Avenue. She indicated compatibility is the type of land use with a very beautiful wildlife area. She stated there were many geese and ducks, and other wildlife in this area, and she would request that some environmental studies be done, and some additional information be provided to the Council, in terms of overall environmental impact and impact on the community. She indicated it was her opinion that changing this land from Single Family to Multiple Family zoning, at this point, does not have enough information behind it. She o added that it does not look like a positive addition to the community at this point. o o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 40 o Dave Beckman, 4172, 146tl1 Avenue NW stated he had several items of concern. He noted an item that was brought up at the very beginning of the meeting that evening pertaining to this rezoning, which was apparently being proposed because of rezoning which occurred earlier north of Oak View Middle School, that is now being addressed by being changed back to Single Family housing. He stated it sounds like the City Council and Planning Commission had not done their homework on that, therefore, the residents were being asked to compromise where they live, because of a mistake that was made earlier. Mr. Beckman stated he was concerned with regard to traffic within the Meadows of Round Lake. He stated there have been some serious problems with traffic coming from ih A venue, over to Round Lake Boulevard from 14ih down Eldorado, down to 145th and 143rd. He stated those roads were not designed to handle the amount of traffic that is going on there, as well as the speed at which that traffic is moving. He indicated it seems like the City attempted to do something about this by putting in temporary speed bumps. He stated the speed bumps were a significant annoyance for the people who lived in that area, and a few stop signs might have helped, however, this was not an issue the City desired to address. o Mr. Beckman stated that if Eldorado was extended on out to County Road 116. the traffic would significantly increase, particularly with the planned developments. He stated this was an issue of concern for the residents. He pointed out there were many people who walk those streets with their children, and there are no sidewalks, however, they enjoy walking in some relative safety, although not as safe as they would like. He stated any development in this area would only compromise that safety. Mr. Beckman indicated that when he first moved to Minnesota five years earlier, he spent the first three months of his time here in the Century Court apartments in Brooklyn Park, and was fully aware of the type of people who live in those types of dwellings. He eXplained that after the three months in this location, they moved to Andover, and he had to move his family into the one apartment area in Andover, which is off of Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated they had observed a drug infested area, that the City seriously needs to address. He stated the residents allow their children to run all the time, with no supervision, and this is exactly what would occur with additional apartments in this area. He stated they couldn't bow to the Metropolitan Council. He indicated they were receiving nothing in return from the Metropolitan Council on these issues. He stated there was no need for this. He indicated Andover is a City of its own, and should behave as such, with some backbone. o Rosella Sonsteby, 4151 41 st Avenue stated she was the owner of much of the land being discussed. She indicated the land that they are proposing to develop, they will be putting beautiful expensive homes, which will do much for the community. She advised that all of the people who claim they walk through this area are trespassing on her private property. She requested the names of all of these people. o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 41 o Charlie Ross, 3948 l451h Avenue stated he was not aware if they could push Eldorado through if this proposal moves forward. He indicated they have attempted for 2 years to deal with the speeding issue that already exists on 1451h Avenue. He stated in May, at 1:00 p.m. in the morning, he had heard a car back up on his street, and walked out and looked to see that it was his neighbor who was arguing with a kid who was speeding through their neighborhood at 1 :00 in the morning. He stated that as it turns out, that argument resulted in his neighbor being run over by a car, and today, he is paralyzed from the waist down. He stated he was not aware how many people in the audience are aware of this, however, they consistently stated, every time they came before the City Council and discussed the speeding issue of 145(h Avenue, that sooner or later someone would get hurt. He stated what is interesting is that somebody did, and now they are talking about approving a density change to put more and more cars through there, and increase the chances for these types of things to happen. He stated he thought this was ridiculous. C) Marilyn Phife, 4177 1461h Avenue NW in the Meadows of Round Lake stated when they built their home there, they were third home built in the development, and had wanted the largest quietest lot they could find for their children. She stated they moved from Brooklyn Park, where they had owned a home for five years. She stated they saw that home go down in value, and saw the neighborhoods deteriorate dramatically, in a very fast period of time, for many reasons. She stated this was due to the neighborhood apartments that existed there. She pointed out that they were not necessarily across the street from them, the residents were all just hanging out, with nothing to do. Mrs. Phife stated that if the Commission did not care about the residents' children, if they have children or grandchildren of their own that are in this area, she would request they think of them before they approve a high-rise apartment building on that corner, adjacent to Anoka High School. Mr. O'Neil stated he had never received any information that indicated the high-density issue, and inquired why he was hearing this for the first time, that evening. He inquired what was motivating the City to re-designate this land. Mr. Carlberg stated originally they had discussed a possible exchange with a property that was being considered. He stated this was the initial reason for looking at some of these properties. He indicated some of these properties are already zoned Multi-Family at 6 units per acre, and that was the original proposal. He stated the Council has tabled the action on that projecc however, as they go through this process, they are going to deal with an issue in the Comprehensive Plan, pertaining to Multi-Family densities, affordable housing, and those types of things. He advised that the City is, by law, going to require to plan for those types of uses. He stated they could not be an exclusive Single Family development City anymore. He stated it was a requirement in the Comprehensive Plans, as they get approved by the Metropolitan Council, and in the original blueprint that they must have some of these components, or they don't have an approved Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner Apel stated the City did without an approved Comprehensive Plan for years. He o inquired why it was so important to have it now. He stated he believed that this action for rezoning r \.J o C) Regular Andover PlanningQd Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 42 does not come from the City Council, but rather from the staff. He stated staff was well aware of his opinion regarding staff making policy, and if staff is doing this, and the City Council does not circumvent this, then they should be replaced. Chair Squires requested clarification regarding the Comprehensive Plan. He inquired regarding the consequences to the City for not having an approved Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner Apel stated the majority of the time, they have operated without an approved Comprehensive Plan, and he is tired of staff initiating applications that are against the wishes of the people. Chair Squires requested that those present conduct themselves in a courteous and professional manner so that staff may answer his question. He stated the gentleman earlier made the comment that the City should stand up and disregard the Metropolitan Council. He advised that they should find out what the consequences of this would be. He stated the resident had raised this issue, and they should explore that. Mr. Carlberg stated he did not know if any community had ever stated they would challenge the Metropolitan Council. He indicated this was an issue of extension of sewer and water, and other public infrastructure issues that may come about. He stated they might go that route, if the City Council chooses not to look at some of those Multi-Family issues. He advised that it might cause the City a Senior High School. He stated they did not know that, and are working through those issues. He stated in terms of the initiation of these applications, as they had originally explained, this had started through that process. He stated this is a public hearing to obtain input. He indicated all of this information will go to the Council, and the Council may choose to do nothing with those properties, but at least the public has the opportunity to make comment, and have their feelings known. He stated this was what the process was all about. He stated this comment would be forwarded to the Council, or if the item is tabled at this time, staff will still forward it to the Council to get direction from them. He noted the Commission might also request direction from the Council in this area of specific amendments. Mr. O'Neil stated that it just appeared that what happened in the other part of the City is now affecting these residents, and if they were considering a land swap at that time, why were they not part of that process then, instead of now. He pointed out that ifit were going to impact them, people would like to know about it immediately. He commented that with the traffic problems, they are now proposing to add high-density housing. He stated they all understand they are going to have to develop the City and do Multi-Family dwellings, and there is nothing wrong with that, however, it makes no sense here. John Whittok, 14427 Eldorado Street NW stated he had just moved in three months ago, and agreed with many of the comments that were made. He noted the statement that the City is required by law, o o o o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 43 and inquired whose law this was. He stated that if this is a Metropolitan Council rule, they were not elected. He stated they are not an elected body, therefore, how can they make law. Mr. Carlberg stated State law has given them the power to review Comprehensive Plan, and require their approval. Mr. Whittok stated, therefore, an appointed body is making rules for people who did not elect them. He stated there was something very wrong with this, and this should be considered as well. He stated that they are all subject to rules, however, as a community, they should be able to stand up and make decisions for themselves. He stated that if this pertains to taxes, and costs them a school, the citizens should be asked; He stated this is something they all want, and they should be asked if it comes down to tax money that the Metropolitan Council is taking and not giving back. He stated he just moved in, and his lender had inquired if they were in the flood plain. He stated the City and the County had indicated that part of this property is, and part is not. He inquired bow this proposal would affect that, and who is liable for that. He requested this be considered as well, when making their decision. He stated he was in favor of people attempting to develop their own property, and not against Mrs. Sonsteby trying to develop her land, but they can not just kowtow to the Metropolitan Council. He stated they should not be allowed to make decisions for tbe citizens, as they are not elected. Tom Insman, 1718 Andover Boulevard stated all of the citizens have to know tbat the City does have to have a Comprehensive Plan. He stated Maple Grove had gone tbrough exactly the same thing last year, and they got this crammed down their throats, for the very same reason they are holding the High School as a smoking gun against their heads. He stated they have to, as citizens, stand up and say, we voted for the High School, these are our tax monies, and "you guys, go take a jump in the lake." He indicated Ted Mondale is on the Metropolitan Council. He lives in North Oaks. He stated there were no high-density low income housing in North Oaks. He stated in defense of Mr. Carlberg, he has a tough job, and has to try to sell them on it, and he has to listen to the citizens too. Mrs. Murray stated the City has a choice as to where to institute their high-density housing. She suggested they put it on Bunker Lake Boulevard, where it already exists. She stated they should rezone that where it won't affect any neighborhoods, and the City can control it rigbt from the start. Mr. O'Neil stated that if it comes down to the Metropolitan Council saying no, the City couldn't put any more developments in, then so be it. He stated the residents like it here the way it is, and if Andover doesn't grow any bigger, that is great, because if it grows any bigger tbere will be much bigger problems to deal with. He advised there is no infrastructure in the City to handle the traffic. He stated there is none. He stated the roads in town are absolutely terrible, other than the new Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated the rest of the infrastructure is completely inadequate. He indicated he has been rear-ended in Andover due to lack of turn lanes, and there is way too much traffic. He stated this proposal would only compound this problem. He stated he was not anti- development, adding that he grew up in a family where building was their trade, but if it means that, then they, as citizens of Andover, like it the way it is, and don't want it changed. ,- u Regular Andover Planning~)d Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 44 Mrs. Gold stated she appreciated that the planners in Andover have a difficult job. She stated she was a planner. She stated she was not a City Planner, however, was aware that planners need to think in terms of cause and effect, for example, if they do this, what are the consequences. She stated she was not opposed to affordable housing, but would challenge staff to look for alternative methods of affordable housing, and to be a part of the solution. She stated she believed the answers were there, but must be sought. She indicated she would be very concerned with high density housing, if she didn't live across the street from where it is being proposed, and that would be from the standpoint ofthe land itself. She stated she was not opposed to building, having also grown up in a home where building was their trade, however, when they want to put high density housing, 300 additional units, on top of a wetland and sandy environment, there is going to be an impact because the water must go somewhere. She stated she has seen this impact to Mrs. Sonsteby's property in the spring run off when County Road 116 was put in. She stated they need to be thinking in the long term, and what are the affects and who has to live with them, because they will all be long gone. o Tom Murray, 738 41 sl Avenue stated when they purchased their home, they checked with the City of Andover, and were ok with that. He stated looking out his front door at a townhome what quite a lot better than looking out at dumpsters in the back of an apartment building. He statcd this would have a significant effect on their property values. He noted the comment regarding keeping a courteous meeting, this should be conveyed to City staff because they are very discourteous on the telephone. Mrs. Murray stated she was not opposed to the building either, however, they should do something for the children of the community. She stated that when her parents grew up, they had a place to go that was community and children oriented, that would be close to the High School and be a safe place for children to go instead of hanging out with people who are doing illegal activities. She stated that on her street, there is a home directly across the street. She stated there was a park in between, and that turned out to be a rental property. She stated the original owner had burned the home to the ground, now a builder purchased it, and did not obtain all of the permits, and now it is being rented out. She requested the Commission look at the records just for this one rental home on their street, and see how many times the Police have had to respond to that home. She stated she lives right next to park, however, her children can not even go to this park because the children that live in this home smoke marijuana. She stated this is just from one home, and now they are proposing to put in a high rise or an apartment building. She stated this should be toned down a bit, as an apartment is not appropriate in this area, especially with the traffic they are dealing with. She stated the park adjacent to her home is not maintained, and she would like to see the City concern themselves with the parks, and provide places for people to gather, rather than attempting to obtain the money out of an apartment building in terms of head counts for schools and whatever else they get because they have that type of density. Ron Hanson, 14404 Eldorado Street stated he had watched the City Council the other day, and they had no clue that this was coming forward that evening. He indicated Council Member Ortell had o stated that he was outraged that this was even being proposed, because it is illegal for staff to C) o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning COlllmission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 45 o propose rezoning, therefore, it is being forced upon the City as Commissioner Apel has indicated. He stated currently between Blaine and Anoka High School, they are approximately 1,500 students over capacity, and when the new High School opens in Andover, it is capable of handling 1,400 students. Brad Sanford, 14392 Eldorado Street NW stated there were at least three light poles knocked over on 143rd Avenue as a result ofthe speeding, adding that every night they are knocked over and put back up again. He stated E1dorado going through could not happen. He stated the lives of his two daughters are not worth the property taxes. Natalie Haas-Steffen, Representative of the Metropolitan Council stated she did not believe it was fair for her to stand there at that time, and allow staff and the Commission to take all of the heat, therefore, she would like to speak to the residents and attempt to explain some things. She stated she had spent a number of years as Anoka County Commissioner, and after that went down to the State and was a Commissioner of Human Services, and then was on the City Council in the city of Ramsey when she requested Governor Ventura appoint her to the Metropolitan Council, with the hope that she could do something about the relationships between cities and the Metropolitan Council. Mrs. Haas-Steffen provided an overview of what has changed from the early years to present, and why part of the discussion was proceeding as it was that evening. She indicated the citizens who I' ~, '0 stood up and said that it is not necessary to have an approved Comprehensive Plan_ She stated that it is absolutely correct, in that if they do not wish to take water and sewer as a City, they can probably get by without dealing with these issues, however, if they wish to take infrastructure, they will have to play by some rules that are very difficult, however, they may not be as difficult as they are being presented that evening. She stated the rule since 1996, when the city requests and extension of the MUSA line, which adds sewer, the density that the Metropolitan Council expects the city to have is 3.0 units per acre. She stated the Metropolitan Council does not tell the city where to put this density or how to get to that density. She indicated they will subtract out of the formula wetlands, road, setbacks, and whatever it takes to get to 3.0 units per acre. She pointed out that this does not represent high density, or high rise. Mrs. Haas-Steffen stated with the cost of things in Anoka County, in terms of land, for someone to come in and put low cost housing, when considering the amount that a piece of property is going for, the Metropolitan Council is not telling the city that they must do the low cost housing, but rather saying that the opportunity should be made available, and let the market control it. She stated this was no different than she had indicated when they sat down with the City of Andover and negotiated. She explained that what is occurring at present is that since 1996, all of the cities knew what the rules and the expectations were going to be, when they requested to have an extension of their sewer, however, like everyone else in the Metropolitan area, they put off getting to point where this was approved, and the Metropolitan Council kept granting extensions until December this year. She stated the City of Andover has a School Bond issue, and they need to site the school. She stated the () preferred site appears to be one that requires and extension of sewer. She stated the School Board has o c U Regular Andover Planning an~ Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 46 stated that it would not site a High School on a piece of property that has no sewer, and all of a sudden it got to crunch time. She stated that this staff and the staff that works with her has been sitting for hours, negotiating down expectations for this City. She stated there were some benchmarks thrown out by the Metropolitan Council that were somewhat unrealistic, so before all of the rumors get going, and you say that staff is laying on them many expectations they don't want, this staff has been negotiating down numbers and numbers. She stated they are getting down to a very reasonable requirement for the City of Andover. She stated the expectation within the new MUSA, is to have 3.0 units per acre. She stated that this is more than .5 acre per house. Commissioner Ape! inquired if Mrs. Haas-Steffen believed the Metropolitan Council was better at extortion than planning. Mrs. Haas-Steffen stated she would suspect she has spent more time on this side of the podium, arguing with the Metropolitan Council regarding a number of things including land fill. She advised that every 10 years, there would be a new city approximately the size of Maple Grove. She stated these are the expectations for what is already present, which is two thirds of the present population multiplying itself and a another one third is moving in, and they are looking for homes to put them in. She indicated that the market that has a gap in it is the Multiple Housing or rental, however, no one is telling Andover to have a high rise and where to put it, and what they are currently doing is listening to what the citizens might or might not accept. --, U Mrs. Gold stated the issue at hand is a zoning issue, and the residents have been clear that they do not wish to rezone the property. Mr. Sanford stated Mrs. Haas-Steffen was indicating that the City is obligated to have high density housing someplace, and it is up to the Planning and Zoning Commission to decide where it best fits. He stated all of the residents present were telling them that it does not fit on ill Avenue and Bunker Lake Boulevard. He stated he understood that it is necessary to have the high density, however, they should put it where it makes sense. Motion by Dalien, seconded by Hedin, to close the public hearing on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment at 10:36 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Carlberg stated the Commission at this time, can make a recommendation on the Comprehensive Plan to deny the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, to not make any recommendation at all, or to approve. He indicated there was significant testimony, and the may wish to consider that issue. He stated the Sketch Plan item is site specific, and they need to go through those items, and make sure they forward them to the City Council. He stated that Sketch Plan carries forward because it is set by the process to go before the Council on March 6. o Commissioner Apel inquired if it would be putting the cart before the horse to approve the Sketch Plan if the Comprehensive Plan Amendment is not approved. o r--) '--' C) o Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 47 o Chair Squires stated he agreed, and would like to have discussion on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment first, and then see where that takes them, and discuss the Sketch Plan afterwards. He stated that there were a fair number of classifications that are proposed to approximately 150 acres, and staff has indicated that this would collectively amount to an additional 300 units_ Mr. Hinzman stated this was correct, on the western portion of this property. Commissioner Dalien inquired if approximately 40 percent of this land was buildable. Mr. Hinzman stated this was correct. He stated the buildable area is located in the area of 7th Avenue and County Road 116, and drops off into the large wetland area. He added that there was also some buildable area on the knoll to the south of Woodbine Street. He pointed out that the area between it is all wetland. Commissioner Hedin inquired how many units per acre could they get with Single Family spaced as closely as possible. Mr. Hinzman stated the average is approximately 2.1 units per acre, which includes streets and other items. He indicated that basically the minimum lot size is approximately .25 acres per lot. Commissioner Hedin stated therefore, they could not even get up to the 3.0 density with Single Family. Mr. Hinzman stated staff has investigated this, and the City is fairly close to three at this time, pursuant to the Metropolitan Council requirements. Commissioner Apel stated he believed this was a horrendous place to propose this type of rezoning. He added that putting high density housing on the peninsula in the middle of the swamp is completely inappropriate. He stated they were talking about protecting the ecology, and taking an interest in protecting the wetlands, yet they are considering putting 50 housing units on that small peninsula of land. He stated he owns 40 plus acres, and every time they put a housing development in, he comes down to listen, and it is represented that this will not affect his property values whatsoever. He stated this was ludicrous. He stated he used to think he lived on a lake, however, no that they have cut out all of the drainage areas and put ponds in, it is more like a desert. He stated he does not care what the Engineers say, adding that he works with the Coon Creek Watershed District all ofthe time, it is not what the engineers say that makes people happy, but rather it is what happens that makes people either happy or unhappy. He stated an engineer could say there is no water there because it is impossible, and yet you could be standing knee deep in water. I-Ie explained that this is what would occur here. Commissioner Apel stated that if the City is really concerned about ecology, they should purchase that piece of property as a City. He stated they should ask the people what they would like to do, o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 48 () and if they choose not to, that is their business, however, they should be given a chance. He stated they should not put 50 houses in there. Commissioner Falk inquired if the area proposed is all buildable. Mr. Carlberg stated buildability has to be assessed. He stated the Sketch Plan basically shows a concept, and the developer may not be able to obtain the buildability they desire, and they are the ones who have done the investigation. He explained that as they proceed with the process and if that is the case, that is the point where they get into the preliminary plat, and deal with the issues of grading and drainage of the land, and determine buildability from that point. He noted that at present the developer has looked at buildability to see if he can make the project work, therefore, he would have to defer the Harstad Sketch Plan to the developer with regard to questions pertaining to buildability. Commissioner Dalien stated the property is currently zoned Residential Urban Single Family, therefore, they could construct Single Family homes on the property without any action at all, other than going through the process and the Sketch Plan, and determining the buildability. He stated he did not know what the resulting density would be, if it were Single Family homes, however, it would certainly be less than 50. o Commissioner Hedin stated he was looking at what is north of the proposed rezoning, and what is located to the south of the rezoning, in Anoka. He stated he was not comfortable with the Multiple Dwelling part of the rezoning, in that 6 units per acre is high for the land located to the north, south, and east. He stated as far as building on the peninsula, that is the second question, not the first. He stated he would either wish to change to eliminate that Multiple Dwelling completely, as he would not want anything of that nature close to where his children are attending High School. He stated to consider moving these areas of Single Family up one level he could understand, however, not moving the density up two levels before getting to the commercial district on the corner of ih Avenue and Bunker Lake Boulevard. Commissioner Falk inquired if City staff worked with the staff of the city of Anoka. Mr. Carlberg stated the present proposal is fairly recent, and staff has sent notification, and has spoken with some of the Anoka City staff recently, however, this again is the first step in the process. He stated the Commission heard a representative of the city of Anoka Planning Department at this time, requesting additional work be done in regard to this and this is common. He stated they may not wish to proceed any further with this proposal, depending upon the testimony received that evening, the desires of the Council, and the Planning and Zoning Commission's recommendation, therefore, they can work through those issues with the city of Anoka. Commissioner Kirchoff inquired regarding the density per acre on the property on Bunker Lake ,'" Boulevard next to the farmstead. \J () Regular Andover Planning ~~ Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 49 u Mr. Carlberg stated the density was approximately 3.75 units per acre. o Chair Squires inquired if the Council were to decide to rezone Grey Oaks back to Single Family, what effect that would have on their overall density, in terms of meeting the Metropolitan Council requirement of 3.0 units per acre. He inquired if the current proposal were coming forward because they were attempting to find other lands to redesignate to a higher density to make up the difference. Mr. Carlberg stated staff had looked at the Grey Oaks project to determine if an exchange was necessary in order to get a Comprehensive Plan Amendment approval on that, and this is why they looked at these areas of like density, to see if they could swap or exchange. He stated it would have an impact in terms of what is existing in the City. He stated that if the Grey Oaks project goes through, and additional lands are considered, even elsewhere, they still may need those too. He stated the issue was more than simply density. He explained that it relates to affordability, rental housing, lifecycle housing, and density is only one component of the Comprehensive Plan issues that would be negotiated. He stated he was not if this area would be used to offset Grey Oaks, or if certain areas, like the Woodland Creek townhome areas could be used to achieve density, and achieve lifecycle housing. He stated that senior housing is a component of lifecycle housing that is a desirable thing in the City's plan for the Metropolitan Council. He stated they would have to see how the Grey Oaks project proceeds, adding that it would be more attractive if they could find other areas to make up those densities. Chair Squires stated from what he has heard at this meeting, as well as through other meetings that have been held with neighborhood groups, is a real concern and an opposition, not as much to the RM, 6 units per acre, but the RM-2, 13 units per acre. He stated in his personal opinion, the focus of the City should be on the RM designation, and finding places where that is appropriate, because that is much more compatible with Single Family that limits it to things like this that are being proposed, whereas the RM-2 opens it up to developments that people view as more potentially noxious. He stated he was uncertain as to how they would accomplish this philosophical shift, however, many of the comments that he has heard, while they do not make that distinction per se, he believed was the point the citizens were attempting to make. He explained that the comments pertaining to a high- rise, although there is not statement pertaining to a high-rise, however, this is how this is perceived when the citizens see these things, and the RM-2lends itself to that concern. ,- " U Chair Squires stated the Commission members all live in Andover as well, and they have many of the same concerns about the City. He stated he was concerned regarding RM-2 developments, whether these be called high-rises or apartment buildings, and he does not wish to see Andover compromised either, and there appears to be some general consensus developing perhaps flowing up to the City Council, that that type of a designation may not be something they wish to consider in Andover. He explained that if they can satisfy the Metropolitan Council concerns, by a less dense Multiple Family designation, this is something that should be closely examined. He stated people appear to be willing to accept that, as opposed to RM-2 designation, which is the reason that many of the residents are present. () o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 50 Commissioner Apel pointed out that they should not be concentrating these designations in one area. He explained that it is much more difficult to spread them out like the planners recommend to avoid situations like ghettos, and it is also harder on the neighboring property owners, however, to blindly go along and dump these developments in areas like are being proposed is not correct. Chair Squires stated he believes there is going to be Multiple Family development in Andover, and they have seen it already. He stated they have seen this at the farmstead, and went through a meeting larger than this, when they were at the school, with the residents who were concerned. He stated they would see Multiple Family housing in Andover. He stated this is good opportunity for the Commission and the City Council to determine how they can attempt to satisfy those people, instead of exercising jurisdiction, or holding hostage or whatever, those people who are telling them what they have to do in order to continue to grow and build their tax base, and yet address the concerns of the residents as well. He added that as it is proposed, this is not something he would personally support. He stated he agreed with Commissioner Hedin's pointing out that one of the criteria they look at when considering these proposals is the compatibility with surrounding uses, and there is much residential area around the proposed property. He stated the wetland presents a unique circumstance as well, that must be factored in. He stated he could not see these comprehensive changes to this area. o Commissioner Dalien concurred. He stated if they were proposing something like a farmstead he might feel somewhat differently, however, since they are not really certain as to what could be developed in this area, he was reluctant to open the doors to any type of high density Multiple Family units going in there. He stated he was concerned regarding environmental issues in that area, and it does not seem like the most appropriate place for this type of development, and there could be more thought put towards other areas in the City. He stated there might be more appropriate areas if this type of development is to occur in Andover. He stated he would concur with the residents in that he could not support these changes. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he agreed. He stated he believed they should look and see if they can spread this type of development around a bit, which may require more work, however, there may be some other areas where they could look at the RM, rather than the RM-2. He stated the Commission recognizes the fact that this type of housing has to be made available in Andover, therefore, if they consider this from the standpoint of the six dwelling per acre or less, this might be a better means to approach this. He stated they should also recognize that people havc land, and should have the right to use it, under the zoning conditions. He stated it appears that it would take more work. Commissioner Hedin stated if he was to discuss with staff the impact of this proposal of rezoning all of this property, other than the commercial area, RM, and if they are looking at swapping land for other reasons, to look elsewhere for that. (- ) \~ o 1'\ V o o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 51 Commissioner Falk stated he thought this was a bad spot for the RM and RM-2 with the Anoka High School and the intersection in this area. He stated this would be a safety hazard, and as Commissioner Apel pointed out, it would turn the area into who knows, maybe a ghetto. He stated they were not certain of what was going to be there, and it could be an eyesore. He stated he was completely in favor of low income housing, and according to the Metropolitan Council is it going to be coming, however, he does not support the current proposal. Commissioner Apel stated he would move to forward to the City Council, a resolution recommending denial of the request for the rezoning for the following reasons: It is incompatible with the uses of the surrounding land. It would negatively affect the ecology of the area, which is primarily wetland, and the proximity to the Anoka High School is not an appropriate location for high-density housing. Motion by Apel, seconded by Hedin, to recommend to the City Council denial of Resolution No. R -00, a resolution amending the Comprehensive Land Use Plan for the City of Andover on property owned by Rosella Sonsteby and Arkla (Minnegasco) located in Sections 29 and 30. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Carlberg indicated the Harstad Sketch Plan would go forward to the City Council for discussion. He stated they were not considering high-density use in this area, but rather the RM, which is 6 units per acre. He stated this would still take a Comprehensive Plan Amendment to proceed with this, however, the Commission could determine if that design or development fits that area, and if the develop should proceed with that, and the Commission can make a recommendation to forward to the City Council in this regard. Commissioner Apel requested clarification that this item would have to come back before the Planning and Zoning Commission, and there would have to be another Comprehensive Plan Amendment in order for this to proceed. Mr. Carlberg stated this was correct. Chair Squires stated that it is theoretically possible that the City Council could accept the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, therefore, if any of the Commissioners have concerns with regard to the proposed Sketch Plan, they should be expressed at this time. Commissioner Apel stated this was a bad place to develop that many units. Commissioner Hedin agreed. Chair Squires stated this item would be considered at the March 6, 2000, City Council meeting. He indicated that there would be another meeting, and the Commission is advisory, and the Council o () 0 Regular Andover Planning ('~id Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22,2000 Page 52 makes the final decision. He stated on March 6, the Council would consider the presentation, the Sketch Plan, and the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. Mr. Carlberg stated the Comprehensive Plan Amendment is going forward to the City Council with a recommendation of denial, however, the Sketch Plan is still being reviewed, and comments will be made by the Council at the March 6 meeting. At this time, Chair Squires called a brief recess. The Planning and Zoning Commission reconvened at 11 :05 p.m. PRESENTATION: SKETCH PLAN-DAVEHARRIS Mr. Carlberg provided the Commission with a location map, which indicated the general location of the proposed project. He indicated the property is located on the southeast corncr of Crosstown Boulevard and 1381h Avenue, and is a vacant parcel. u Dave Harris, of Dave Harris Development stated he is proposing to construct two four-unit, owner occupied townhomes on the parcel indicated on the location map. He statcd he has discussed this proposal with City staff, and has gone through the requirements necessary to effect this type of development, in terms of the setback requirements. He explained that the RM-2 requires 5,000 square feet per unit, which is met. He stated the units are required to have a minimum of 960 square feet, and presently, their plan shows a little more than 1,300 square fcet, and within these units, they are proposing to put basements. He stated they are covering two items with this proposal with regard to affordable housing, as well as a very attractive complex to be sited on that location. Mr. Harris stated adjacent to and south of the proposed site is a commercial piece of property. He explained that the general area is comprised of Multiple Housing dcvclopmcnts. Commissioner Kirchoff inquired if the proposed project would be regulated by an Association. Mr. Harris stated this was correct. Commissioner Dalien inquired regarding the price range for the apartment units. Mr. Harris stated at this time, they believe it would be approximately $140,000 for the base units, with upgrades available. Commissioner Falk inquired if there was sufficient room for parking. Mr. Harris stated the project meets the parking requirements of the ordinance, which includes extra o parking stalls, other than those that are owner-occupied. He stated the ordinance requires Y2 space o ..., (j Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22,2000 Page 53 o for every unit, and this requirement is met. He explained that when the subject property was initially purchased, there was a walkway taken for a small park. He stated that at the time this was taken, the Park Board had indicated to the property owner that this area could be accounted for as density. He stated that if this were the case, they would have additional room to install two more parking spaces. Commissioner Hedin requested clarification regarding the number of parking spaces for the 8 proposed units. Mr. Harris stated there would be 2 parking spaces per unit, plus Yo, a parking space for each unit, which is in accordance with the ordinance requirements. Commissioner Falk inquired if the units would have garages, as well. Mr. Harris stated this was correct. PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN - TWO (4 UNIT) BUILDINGS - SECTION 33 - DA VE HARRIS. Mr. Carlberg stated there is quite a bit of history on the subject parcel. He indicated there have been .r-'\ some zoning changes in the past. He explained that the property is currently zoned R-4, Single V Family Urban, and the property was previously rezoned from NB, Neighborhood Business, and to the south of this area is a commercial piece of property. He advised that this property was commercially zoned at one time, and was rezoned from NB, Neighborhood Business to R-4, Single Family Urban on January 6, 1998. Mr. Carlberg indicated a rezoning of the property to M-2 Multiple Dwelling would be necessary from the Single Family current zoning to allow for this project. He indicated that the developer proposes to combine the two existing lots into one lot, and plat those with two four-unit buildings, and Association that would hold the common area, and maintain that. Mr. Carlberg stated the property is currently located in the MUSA. He noted comments in the Staff Report related to Watershed and Park Board review, and items of this nature_ He explained that the Andover Review Committee met on January 27, 2000 to discuss the Sketch Plan, and have provided their comments, which indicate that the area north of Bunker Lake Boulevard between Crosstown Drive and Crosstown Boulevard has been discussed as a potential redevelopment area by the City Council. He indicated the City has set aside between $10,000 and $15,000 to study the redevelopment of this area. He stated the Review Committee has commented in terms of how this proposal would fit into the redevelopment of this area, and if it is to be a Multi-Family redevelopment of the area, and a different reconfiguration altogether, it may be satisfactory, and this is a decision that the Council will make. o o r- U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 54 o Mr. Carlberg indicated the parking requirement is 2.5 spaces per unit, one, of which is required to be in a garage. He stated the developer does provide those spaces and the garage, as well as parking on the driveway in front of those units. He stated the project exceeds the 2.5 spaces per unit. He stated the question of the Andover Review Committee is in terms of whether or not they do meet the parking, and if additional parking spaces are provided. He stated it is possible that the two parking stalls coming in from 138th Avenue could be eliminated, versus having the two single parking spaces, which might obstruct the aesthetics and views from the streetscape, of these two buildings. Commissioner Apel requested clarification regarding the location of the property, which may be available for additional parking. Mr. Carlberg explained that this was a small portion of land on the southern edge of the property, which had been dedicated for park purposes. Mr. Carlberg stated the parking stalls are required to be 10' x 18', and are 11' x 20' as represented on the site plan, therefore they may be able to reduce some of the surface areas. I-Ie explained that a 10' x 18' is a fairly large stall, and some communities require 9' x 18' or 9' x 16'. o Mr. Carlberg stated the parking areas are required to be curbed, and there will need to be a shared driveway agreement which the Association will hold in common, and staff will review the documents to insure that the maintenance of the driveways and common areas is addressed in those documents. Mr. Carlberg indicated this is a relatively small project, as compared to other projects being proposed for parcels of this size. Commissioner Hedin inquired regarding what is located at the top of the triangular portion, on at 13875, and the lot to the south of that. Mr. Carlberg stated this was wetland area, and would not be able to be developed. He indicated that the proposed site and surrounding area is being examined by the City for potential redevelopment. He advised that due to problems which occurred several years prior, thc City adopted a Rental Housing Ordinance, as well as a Minimum Housing Code Ordinance, and there were many new requirements that were set forth, including parking requirements, and in addition, the property owner is held responsible for the conduct of the people that reside within their buildings. He explained that all Police calls in this area come through the City's Building Department. and if there are a certain number, within a specific period of time, rental licenses can be withdrawn. He stated the City has attempted to address some of the issue raised earlier in the meeting, adding that redevelopment of this area is likely in the future. o Commissioner Kirchoff inquired regarding the redevelopment of this site, in terms of its zoning designation. (~ 0 Regular Andover Planning 'a~ Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22,2000 Page 55 Q Mr. Carlberg stated there could be components of both RM or Commercial, and the idea is to set the funds aside to have a master plan developed and have some architects and planners come in and examine the ways this area could be redeveloped. He stated it is currently individual lots with individual owners. Commissioner Dalien inquired regarding the time line for the funds that have been set aside for this undertaking. Mr. Carlberg stated these were Community Development Block Grant Funds. Mr. Hinzman explained that there is $7,500 which is set aside to be spent by June, 2000, and another $7,500 which is to be spent by June, 2001. He stated the City could carry that over. He eXplained that they are expecting to go out for requests for qualification, for someone to come in and drop a master plan, and will have the full $15,000 available for this in the summer. Mr. Carlberg stated with that, there would likely be some focus sessions with the City to consider the potential vision for that area, and the process would probably commence in the spring Commissioner Dalien inquired who had initiated the rezoning of the property, which occurred in January of 1998. o Mr. Carlberg stated the property owner at the time, Randy Ericson, had come forward as the applicant, changing the zoning from Commercial to R-4, Single Family Urban. He explained that they had wanted to build two Single Family homes at that time, which thcy are no longer pursuing in this area, and Mr. Harris is now desiring to zone the property to a Multi-Family designation. Commissioner Hedin inquired if there were any other Multi-Family houses in the area of parcel located northeast of the proposed site. Mr. Hinzman stated everything adjacent to the property is either a twin home or a quad home, along th 138 Avenue. Commissioner Hedin inquired regarding the nature of Lot 2521. Mr. Carlberg stated this was a 6 to 8 unit building. He stated the entire area is comprised of a mix of Multi-Family dwellings, and has become somewhat of a problem area in the City. He noted that approximately 60 percent of the Police calls come from this area ofthc City. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Dalien, to open the public hearing on the Sketch Plan at 11 :27 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. o Mr. Insman inquired that if this is an area that the City is considering for future redevelopment, that they should refrain from any rezoning at this time, in order to develop a comprehensive plan as to ~ Regular Andover Planning ~~ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 56 ./ " V what they will do in this area. He stated it appears to him that the door is open, and this is the area in which developers will go to construct Multi-Family housing. He stated the City should hold off on action at this time, and determine a plan for the area, and then inform the citizens regarding what is proposed to occur in the area. Chair Squires inquired if the Development Policy of the City would apply to this, so that this development would not occur until 200 I. Mr. Carlberg stated it would not. He explained that any project involving less than 20 lots would be allowed to occur outside of that time line restriction provided it meets certain date requirements. He advised that a Comprehensive Plan Amendment would be required in order to proceed with this project, however, at this time, they were simply discussing the Sketch Plan, and the concept of that development. Commissioner Apel stated he believed this was an appropriate use for this land. He explained that it has been vacant for several years. r~ \~ Mr. Harris stated this was going to be a very nice development, pointing out that $140,000 x 8 comes out to be a fairly substantial number, and it is somewhat difficult to obtain over a million dollars in the development process, and obtaining nice structures as he is proposing for this property. He stated with regard to the 1998 rezoning of the property, these individuals were in the business of taking in people who were in need of assistance, and adult help, and they were proposing to construct housing which contained many bedrooms. He pointed out that they have moved out of the area, and have purchased a home in Fargo, ND, which has 23 bedrooms to take care of those types of people. He indicated that it appeared that this proposal was to be very low density, however, this was not the case. Motion by Dalien, seconded by Hedin, to close the public hearing on the Sketch Plan at II :30 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Falk stated he thought this was a very appropriate location for this townhome project. He stated it would enhance the area, and in terms of the long-term plans for redevelopment, this would be a good jump-start to the redevelopment of the entire area. Commissioner Hedin stated he could envision utilizing these funds for the study, and could see more of this type of development in this area. He stated this project would fit in with what the City is attempting to do. He indicated he was in favor of this proposal. Commissioner Kirchoff stated this area is already comprised of some density, therefore, to redevelop the entire area would not represent a net gain. He indicated this project was appropriate for the area. u () 0 Regular Andover Planning una Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 57 o Chair Squires inquired ifthere was a concern about timing, in terms of how this proposal might fit in with the more comprehensive redevelopment plan, in that they could go through the approval process for this small piece, and then consider the comprehensive plan for the entire site, and realize that it might not fit in as they had wanted it to. Mr. Carlberg stated this should be addressed, and that is why the Andover Review Committee had raised this concern. He stated the City Council and the City would have to decide if this proposal would fit in with the City's vision of this area. He eXplained that ifit is intended to be Multi-Family, and this project can be a cornerstone for the future development of that area, it may fit in, however, that item needs to be discussed. Chair Squires stated this was an important issue. He indicated this was a very good area in which the City could focus upon redevelopment efforts, and he did not desire to see a small glitch created simply because this came before the study. He pointed out that this would not likely create any insurmountable problems, however, it would be preferable to attempt to coordinate the timing of these matters. Commissioner stated some of the funds would be spend by June, therefore, this study would be commencmg very soon. C) Mr. Carlberg stated this was correct. He stated they were looking at getting the RFQ and everything out fairly soon, with the direction of the Council, to examine the redevelopment of that area, particularly now that a project has been proposed in this area. He stated they intend to proceed with the master plan in this process, as soon as possible. Commissioner Falk inquired if the City could hold back this development until the plans for the area come forward. Mr. Carlberg stated this is something that needs to be discussed in terms of how the timing of this project fits in with the timing of the redevelopment, and if they can turn the master plan process over more quickly, or if the City Council might agree that this is along the lines of what they were anticipating in the area of owner occupied units of this density and configuration, and it may fit in to the existing vision, and they would not know this until they get through that process, and commence the master planning of it. Chair Squires asked the Commission if there was any disagreement pertaining to any of the Andover Review Committee Items, or any additional information, which should be brought forward. Commissioner Dalien inquired regarding Mr. Harris' time frame for development. C) Mr. Harris indicated he was willing to work with the City and the staff to get something that is beneficial for both this property and the rest of the area, however, he was concerned that he might be Regular Andover Planning ~IJ Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 58 o put in a position where nothing can occur for a period of time. He stated he would not want to be sitting and doing nothing, in light of the costs associated with this timing of the project, however, if they can develop a sensible time frame that would benefit everyone, he would be willing to sit down and discuss it. Chair Squires noted there would be a benefit to Mr. Harris potentially as well, as he sells or markets his units, to have some plan for the redevelopment of the area. Mr. Harris stated he would agree. Mr. Carlberg stated the Sketch Plan which would be coming before the City Council in the next two weeks would get the entire process of master planning to come together relatively quickly. Commissioner Hedin inquired if the project would not be able to proceed this year regardless. Mr. Carlberg stated this was a small project, and the Development Policy Guideline sets dates when items must be approved, and they would have to look at the size of this project being Multi-Family, and the number of units, and see how it fits into the policy, and they can then advise Mr. Harris as to whether this could even be a project for this year, or if it would have to wait until 200 I, based upon the policy. o Mr. Harris stated this is his concern, in that he would not wish to have to go into next year, and carry this project without doing anything. He stated it would make sense for all to commence immediately. He noted he might be a good customer for some of the other property in this area, and possibly they could make a larger project of it. PUBLIC HEARING: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT (CPA 00-05) _ CHANGE LAND USE DISTRICT DESIGNATION FROM OS, OPEN SPACE AND RU, RESIDENTIAL URBAN SINGLE FAMILY TO RM, RESIDENTIAL MEDIUiV/ Df-iVSITY _ 1650 ANDOVER BOULEVARD - CITY OF ANDOVER, PROPERTY OWNED BY WILLIAM HUPP. Mr. Hinzman stated the Planning and Zoning Commission is requested to review two amendments to the Comprehensive Plan by the City of Andover on property owned by Bill Hupp, at 1650 Andover Boulevard NW. He indicated one of the changes involves the land use designation of OS, Open Space, and RU, Residential Urban, on the five acre area to the north. and to rezone this property to RM, Residential Medium Density throughout the development. Mr. Hinzman stated the property is approximately 38 acres in size, with 9 or 10 buildable acres to the north, along Hanson Boulevard. He stated they have had a Sketch Plan come through this development for Hanson Hollow, which consisted of 35 townhome units, and three Single Family units, in addition to some commercial designation, and that Sketch Plan was considered by the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council last year, and the current proposal is in o keeping with the original proposal. o Regular Andover Planning W Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 59 ~ U Chair Squires stated when this project previously came forward, there were some plans for a smail commercial venture on the comer, and some townhomes. He inquired if that was under a Planned Unit Development at that time. Mr. Hinzman stated this was correct. Chair Squires inquired if the Planned Unit Development would no longer be pursued. Mr. Hinzman stated he believed the Planned Unit Development was still active, however, he was uncertain regarding the manner in which the applicant desires to proceed with this. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearing at 11:40 p_m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. o David Olebaugh, 1826 Andover Boulevard stated he does not like Andover officials_ He stated they have allowed a sewer line to go right through their backyards, and were probably tired of hearing about wetlands and flood plains and so forth. He inquired if anyone had thought about where all of the water would go. He indicated that as you walk through his back yard, it is similar to walking on a waterbed. He explained that when the sewer line was constructed, the City installed it in a manner, which would not allow the water to run off, and it builds up in their backyards. He stated when all of these buildings are built, there would be no place for the water to go_ He inquired if any investigation had been done in this regard. Bill Hupp, the applicant explained that Mr. Olebaugh's property was quite a distance from the proposed project site. Mr. Olebaugh indicated the entire area is at a saturation point, and anything that occurs, in terms of development will raise the water level. Mr. Hupp stated ail of the buildings would be constructed on the far east end of the property. He eXplained that the project currently consists of a 35..unit townhome development along with 3 Single Family parcels that are adjacent to his property. He indicated that there are two acres on the comer that they are pursuing for the construction of a convenience store, and that would be separated by a street between his existing house, and 250 feet from the corner. He stated this would isolate that commercial property from all of the other structures. He indicated the property would consist of two cul-de-sacs. He explained that one would be parallel to Hanson Boulevard. He stated Hanson Boulevard would be the only ingress and egress from the property. He stated there would be two units behind his property, and he has spoken to the resident adjacent to him, who has indicated her interest in purchasing one of the units if this project proceeds. Mr. Hupp stated he has had many planners examine this proposal to attempt to find the best and o highest use for the property, and to enhance the entire neighborhood_ He stated the townhomes o Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 60 would be very nice, and they are hoping to construct them in the range of $160,000 plus. He eXplained that the development would be covered by an Association, which would maintain the properties for the residents. He stated it was structured for older individuals, who desire a very nice home that is easy to maintain. He stated he has already received a number of telephone calls from people who have expressed an interest in purchasing the units. Mr. OIebaugh stated Mr. Hupp has been attempting to put a path down through their backyards, because there is a roadway going there for the sewer line, and they have been arguing about this, in terms of the people that are snowmobiling and walking through this area. He explained that with the townhouses, there would be many more people walking through their yards. Mr. Hupp stated this proposal would Connect the Regional Trail System to the midpoint in the property, and possibly go across the creek to the south, extending on the south side of the creek all the way to Crosstown Boulevard, which would insure that everyone's properties would remain private. He eXplained that in terms of drainage, there would be virtually no development in the area of Mr. OIebaugh's home at all. He stated they would follow southerly, parallel to Hanson Boulevard, and depending upon the lay of the land, two, three, or four-unit townhomes that would be constructed in this area. 1'\ U Mr. Olebaugh inquired regarding what would occur on the area indicated as open space. Mr. Hupp stated after the project is completed, all of the open space that is remaining to the west of the project would be undeveloped. Mr. Hinzman explained that this area was designated in the 1991 Comprehensive Plan as open space, because of the land fill site that was located there. He indicated that when the plan was made, the laws were different as far as the precedence of the Comprehensive Plan, which at that time was simply a visionary document, and the land use districts could be rezoned without any consideration to the plan. He eXplained that since that time, there has been a change in the Comprehensive Plan, which makes the document much more important, and in the updating of the plan, the City has been very hesitant to designate any lands that have been privately owned open space, because this takes away the right of development rights of that landowner without compensation. Mr. Insman requested clarification. Mr. Carlberg stated staff was attempting to clarify what the open space requirements were previously, and currently are. Mr. Hupp reiterated that they are attempting to put the property to its highest and best use, and still obtain as much of a high quality development that they possibly can. He stated this proposal would not only enhance the area, but would also probably satisfy the completion of this area for () development. Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 61 o Commissioner Dalien inquired if this was the same plan that was proposed the previous year. Mr. Hupp stated this was correct, adding that nothing had changed. Mr. Carlberg stated that there is no plan tied to this application, which is one of the City initiated applications. He eXplained that Mr. Hupp will eventually proceed with the Planned Unit Development and Preliminary Plat processes, which is oftentimes done in conjunction with the Comprehensive Plan Amendment Rezoning to whatever the appropriate use is. He stated in this case, the City initiated the appellation, and Mr. Hupp's proposal is not before the Commission at this time, but rather the land use changes. He explained that if the Commission chooses not to proceed with this and wait until the preliminary plat comes back before the Commission for a hearing, all of these items can be considered simultaneously. Commissioner Dalien inquired if this application was also in reaction to the Grey Oaks development situation. Mr. Carlberg stated this was correct. He pointed out that Mr. Hupp would have to make a separate application for the Comprehensive Plan Amendment if nothing occurs with regard to the City application it at this time C) Commissioner Hedin inquired if the developer were to sell the property or change his mind with regard to this proposal, would the City be looking at rezoning the property again. Mr. Carlberg stated the potential for this exists, if the Comprehensive Plan Amendment is approved by the City Council. He pointed out, as indicated in the Staff Report, that if this item is not tied to a specific project, the Commission may wish to hold off action, until such time as they know what it will be. Commissioner Hedin inquired why the City initiated this amendment if it is not tied to a project. Mr. Carlberg stated it is tied to the Grey Oaks exchange, and also may meet the requirements of the Comprehensive Plan as relate to the Metropolitan Council. Chair Squires stated if the Commission proceeds with this item, the City could find themselves in a similar situation as that which occurred with Grey Oaks. He stated it would be more appropriate to consider them all together, than to proceed at this time. o Gloria Freyholtz, 1806 Andover Boulevard NW stated she has lived in Andover for 41 years, therefore, she has seen many of these things come and go in the community. She stated she did not really think there was room for 33 townhomes, plus other structures and a convenience store in this area, and then state that the people would not go through the neighboring residents backyards. She stated they would continue to go through their backyards, in that they have already encountered o Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 62 problems keeping them off at this time. She indicated there are many small children in the neighborhood, and she has several grandchildren who come over to play, and she does not wish to have to worry about someone on the road who might possibly harm their children, when they purchased this property many years ago for the privacy of it. She stated they would like to keep the privacy, and all of the wildlife in this area. She reiterated that 33 townhomes, plus two Single Family homes and a convenience store appeared to be too much development for this area. Mrs. Freyholtz stated with regard to the water level, since they have put that sewer back through their backyards, the backyards flood, and the children can take rubber boats out and boat in their backyard. She stated that the additional concrete and asphalt in the other end of this property would help with this situation, and they should be provided some consideration in this matter as well. John Vitervall, 14556 Jay Street stated he and his wife had moved to Andover 8 years prior. He stated they saw the City of Andover as a clean, safe, and prosperous place to move, and begin raising their family. He indicated he had similar concerns as many residents havc had with regard to the proposed density changes. He sated he was concerned how this type of proposal would affect the property value of his home, and a five or ten percent decrease in thcir property value could impact them substantially. r-" V Mr. Vitervall stated he saw this proposal as a detriment to the wildlife in thc area, and to the overall quality of life in the City of Andover. He indicated he would like to continue to live in Andover, which is a great community for his children to grow up in. Carol Kristoferson, 1703 and 1663 Andover Boulevard stated she is a 17 ycar resident of Andover, and loves Andover. She stated the City used one of her photographs on the covcr of the new resident brochure, and she had run for City Council in Andover in 1992. She stated she was a concerned citizen of Andover, and she loves where she lives. She indicated she owns 2.7 acres of land, and left 1 acre wild behind the house so that she does not see the Pineview Estatcs that was developed behind her, which was previously Santa's Tree Farm. Mr. Kristoferson sated in 1992, the trailer house adjacent to her property was sold, and the City installed a road in the summer of 1993. She indicated that in addition, the changed Andover Boulevard from a County Road to a City street. She stated one of the conditions of this was that the speed limit would be decreased to a 30 mile per hour zone. She stated this street is still zoned 40 miles per hour, even though it is a City street, and with the addition of thc Pineview Estates, the traffic has increased, however, they narrowed and curbed the road. She stated people are constantly running over the curbs and going into people's yards. Shc stated the City has done nothing to resolve these problems. Mrs. Kristoferson stated hers is the oldest neighborhood in Andover. Shc stated this proposal would increase the traffic and the number of people, adding that she is experiencing vandalism at her home o already. She indicated that there are eleven cars on the first three houses on Ibis Street, alone, and if f" 0 Regular Andover Planning "a/let Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 63 o this were multiplied by all of the proposed townhomes, their street would not be able to handle the traffic. She indicated it was too narrow and only three blocks long. Tom Insman, 1718 Andover Boulevard NW stated his property is locatcd directly to the north of the proposed development. He stated he had prepared a written statement and read as follows: "1 am a resident and registered voter of Andover since 1984. My home lies directly north of the area that is to be rezoned from Open Space to Residential Medium Density. I am a birdwatcher, and for the past three years, my family and I have been watching the peregrinc f:llcon that makes his nest on top of the highline. It feeds over the whole landfill in Bill Hupp's 40 acres_ Life in Andover has been wonderful. To be able to witness an endangered species in the wild is why you and I, and all of the other people that were at this mceting wcrc here tonight. It is Bill's property, as long as he does not adversely affect the value of my property, his to do with as he pleases. I do however, object to the rezoning of his property, to allow him to build Multi Family housing." o Mr. Insman stated the Commission had discussed their philosophy, however, he believed it to be the philosophy of the people who commented at this meeting that they not only objected to the high density housing, they objected to the 6 unit per acre housing, as well. Hc statcd the people want to see Single Family housing. He noted that the representative of the Metropolitan Council had indicated their requirement is 3.0 units per acre, not 6. He statcd they could build 3 Single Family houses per acre. Mr. Insman stated the traffic from the housing development that was constructed on Santa's Tree Farm bails out into his front yard, and he gets a car a week in his grass as a result of this. He continued his written statement as follows: "When you, my neighbors, moved out of the inner City, you all moved to Andover because there were open spaces, trees, and quiet. All of what you have grown to expect in Andover is about to change. Twenty-five years ago, Multi Family dwellings were called "plexes." You remember them; duplexes, four-plexes, eight-plexes, and so forth. They became huge and they still are. South Minneapolis is full of them. Have you ever driven through there lately, --it's nasty. Twenty years ago, someone came up with a catchy phrase "townhome," and the reason I know that is because my Dad is a building contractor, and we built townhomes. He stated this is just a marketing ploy, along with a lot of other phrases I'm sure you've heard. Senior housing, Condo, Empty Nesters, LifecycIe housing. These phrases are all designed to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling. That same sales tecImique was c::; used in Blaine, and you can see the results every time you drive by thc Blaine High School. Just to Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting () Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 64 o the east side, on 242 are 80 townhomes. They are an absolute slum now. The catch phrases are unable to hide the fact that after the apartments are built, the developer cannot, by law, discriminate against anybody. That means that anyone who has the funds, or subsidized funds, and meets the Metropolitan Council's criteria, is able to purchase an apartment. The values of your property have dropped. Just the discussion about the rczoning has caused it to fall. If you don't believe me, ask a real estate agent. They will tell you what happens when apartments are built. Why is it that the City Council claims to know nothing about this rezoning? Why is it that the rezoning is not by their homes? Why is it that we arc rezoning at all? Where was the Planning Commission when the original zoning was done? What is wrong with thc zoning as it is now? You all moved here to get away from the noise, the cockroaches, and the crime that go along with apartments. Why are the elected officials cramming them down our throats? The answer is the same as always, --money. Just the small project on Hanson Boulevard is 51-: units. not 34. Multiply that by $125,000 each, which is the low income, and you will find that thc answer is $7,250,000.00. o This is what is going to happen. Andover Boulevard will be dug up again to access City sewer and water. All of the trees will be flattened. The developer will build the highest concentration of apartments that he can get away with, and sell them to anyone with the funds. A new road will need to be built that goes right through the neighbors. All the traffic will bailout onto Andover Boulevard, and will increase traffic by about 400 vehicles a day. Crime will skyrocket, especially with the addition of a mini strip-mall on the corner. How's that for a visual image. I believe our officials probably have good intentions. The pressure of the Metropolitan Council and. the developers constantly breathing down their necks would probably be too much for most of us to bear. What can we do to help our City officials out? We can tell thcll1 that the citizens wish to express their viewpoint. 1. The voted in the majority to increase taxes upon ourselvcs to build a new High School, therefore, we intend to stay and raise our families. 2. We all moved here to get away from the Metro, and the high density, low income housing. We don't want apartments next door to our houses_ 3. We're all going to vote in the 2000 election, and we know who you are. You may capture our confidence and our votes by standing up right now_ and telling us that you will recommend to the City Council that the rezoning of the property at Hanson and Andover Boulevards be turned down. Prove that you are one of us. 1'-, <J Q Regular Andover Planning ~-J Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 65 o Mr. Carlberg inquired requested clarification regarding the development on Hanson and Andover Boulevard, which Mr. Insman had referenced as 58 units. Mr. Insman stated there is another plan for this development, in which the housing goes toward the west as well, along the border. He stated the plan before the Commission indicates the number of units that are allowed at the lower end of the zoning restrictions. Mr. Carlberg stated there was no way that 58 units could fit on Mr. ]fupp's property. He advised that the process includes that the developer sketch adjacent properties to show how they can develop, and how road systems can work, to tie into those areas, and Mr. Insman is misinterpreting the layout of the proposed plan. Mr. Hupp stated this was correct. He explained that the City had requested an indication of the way that the adjacent property could develop, however, there is no way that his property could be developed beyond the 33 three to four-unit townhomes, and the two Singlc Family homes. o Chair Squires advised that the City Code requires that when anyone proposes a development plan, that they continue their sketch beyond the development boundaries, in order to demonstrate that they are not land-locking any other properties. He indicated it might or may not be developable, however, that may be the plan that Mr. Insman had seen. Mr. Hupp noted with regard to the bird that was nesting behind Mr. Insman's property, the land in this area is not buildable. He indicated he had extended an offer to sell i\1r. Insman a portion of the property all the way back to the creek, if necessary. He stated that between his property, there is another neighbor located 150 to 200 feet to the west of the proposed site. therefore, there is quite a significant separation between Mr. Insman's property and the developmcnt He eXplained that in consideration of the size of the entire property, the density is approximatcly I unit per acre. Mr. Insman stated Mr. Hupp had indicated two Single Family houses on his site map, however, the map he had seen indicated 6 or 7 houses in the immediate area surrounding his house. He inquired if the map he had seen was incorrect He commented that Council Member Ortel! had referenced the 58 units, and he had seen the map, himself. He stated that beforc they proceed with changing the zoning, they should at least determine exactly what is proposed to be constructed in the area. He inquired if the rezoning were to be approved, what would prevent a developcr from constructing to the maximum limitations. Mr. Carlberg stated the project has already been explained. He advised that the City is not required to take any action of this item, and may forward the Comprehensive Plan Amendment to the City Council recommending that nothing be done until such time as the project is developed, and the developer makes application for the Comprehensive Plan Amendment (j o Regular Andover Planning Q Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 66 Mrs. Kristoferson stated she did not have cable television, and had only heard about this matter because of Mr. lnsman's wife's telephone call. She indicated there was a concern pertaining to the water run off for properties adjacent to hers as well. Devin Gislin, 1836 Andover Boulevard stated he objected to the proposal. Motion by Dalien, seconded by Hedin, to close the public hearing at 12:] 5 a.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Hedin stated he would be in favor of forwarding the Comprehensive Plan Amendment to the City Council with no action, pending further information regarding the developer's proposal. Mr. Carlberg stated staff would review the notification listing, to insure that Mrs. Kristoferson is on the list, and ifnot, will take action to insure she is notified in the future. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Dalien, to forward to the City Council a recommendation that no action be taken until related applications are before the Planning Commission. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. o PUBLIC HEARING: AMENDED SPECIAL USE PERMIT (ASUP 00-01) _ USE OF DECORATIONS, BANNERS, AND SIGNS IN CONJUNCTION WITH "CUSTOMER APPRECIATION DAYS" -13727 HANSON BOULEVARD "':'SUPERAMERICA. Zoning Administrator, Jeff Johnson stated the Commission is requested to review the Amended Special Use Permit request of Super America to allow for he temporary placement of signs, banners and flags associated with "Customer Appreciation Days," which will commence on June 22-24, 2000. Mr. Johnson stated the property is located at 13727 Hanson Boulevard NW, and is zoned General Business. Mr. Johnson provided an overview of the applicable ordinances, and the criteria presented. He indicated that the permit shall not be valid for more than 10 years, and no more than three such permit shall be granted during any calendar year. Mr. Johnson indicated that the resolution provided for the Commission's consideration contains conditions which indicate that the Amended Special Use Permit shall not be valid for more than 10 consecutive days, and that the accessory items associated with the event are located out of the boulevard areas and do not create any hazards to pedestrians or vehicles in the area. He explained that these events have taken place annually in the past, and staff has received no complaints o regarding these events. r \ ~ Regular Andover Planning ~I~ Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 67 () Motion by Dalien, seconded by Hedin, to open the public hearing at 12:16 a.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Dalien, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 12: 17 a.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Hedin inquired if this proposal was any different from that of previous years. Mr. Hinzman stated it was not. Commissioner Hedin inquired if there had been any problems in the past with regard to this event. Mr. Hinzman stated there had not been. () Motion by Falk, seconded by Hedin to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _ -, a resolution granting the Amended Special Use Permit requcst of Super Americ~ to erect temporary signs and banners in conjunction with "Customer Appreciation Days", commencing June 22-24, 2000 pursuant to Ordinance No.8, section 8.07 on the property locatcd at 13727 Hanson Boulevard NW. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, a-nays, I-absent vote_ Chair Squires stated this item would be considered at the March 6, 2000 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: LOT SPLIT/VARIANCE (LS OO-OJ) - SPLIT THE WESTERN PART FROM LOT 1, BLOCK 2, ANDOVER STATION - CITY OF ANDOVER. PUBLIC HEARING: LOT SPLIT/VARIANCE (LS 00-02) SPLIT TIlE EASTERN PART FROM LOT 2, BLOCK 2, ANDOVER STATION _ CITY OF ANDOVER. Mr. Hinzman requested Items 16 and 17 be combined for consideration. Mr. Hinzman stated the two subject properties are owned by the EDA in the Commcrcial Park. He stated they are proposing to move the two property lines over approximately 42 feet to the east to remove a test-monitoring pit from the western side of the property. Hc indicated the property size of the lot, which was sold to a veterinary clinic, contains the same amount or acreage. Mr. Hinzman advised that this is being done to avoid a replatting, in order that this may proceed more quickly. He indicated there were some variances pertaining to this application, and the variances have been seen as temporary variances in the past_ because of the hardship involved in replatting. o Q -, 0 Regular Andover Planning W Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 68 Commissioner Hedin inquired what would happen to the small strip of land that is being abandoned. Mr. Hinzman stated this land would be legally tied to the property located to the west, which is an outlot owned by the City. He indicated this strip ofIand is basically a large wetland area. Motion by Ape!, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearings on Items 16 and 17, at 12:20 a.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I -absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Ape!, seconded by Hedin, to close the public hearings on Items 16 and 17, at 12:21 a.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I -absent vote. Motion by Apel, seconded by Falk, to forward to the City Council a recommendation of approval of Resolution No. R- 00, a resolution granting the lot split and variance request of the Andover Economic Development Authority pursuant to Ordinance no. 40 and varying from the provisions of Ordinance No.8, Section 6.02, minimum lot requirements on Lot L Block 2, Andover Station (Pin 34-32-24-31-0023), conditioned upon the approval ofItem number 17. ;'v!otion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. o Motion by Apel, seconded by Hedin, to forward to the City Council a recommendation of approval of Resolution No. R -00, a resolution granting the lot split and variance request of the Andover Economic Development Authority pursuant to Ordinance No. 40, and varying from the provisions of Ordinance No.8, Section 6.02, minimum lot requirements on Lot 2, Block 2, Andover Station (PIN 34..32-24-31-0024), conditioned upon the approval of Item number 16. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. PUBLICHEARING: LOT SPLIT (LS 00-03) SPLIT APPROXIMATELY 2.5 ACRES FROM A 5 ACRE PROPERTY - /7674 FLINTWOOD STREET NW _ DEL HESSAN. Mr. Johnson stated the Planning and Zoning Commission is requested to review the request of Del Hassan to split the western 2.5 acres from a five acre parcel of land located at 17674 Flintwood Street NW. He indicated there are no variances being requested. Mr. Johnson stated the subject property is zoned R-I, Single Family Rural. Mr. Johnson indicated a resolution recommending approval has been provided to the Planning and Zoning Commission for consideration. Commissioner Hedin inquired if one of the requirements is that both lots are buildable. o Mr. Johnson stated this was correct, adding that this was the case. 1-) Regular Andover Planning ~':i!cl Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 69 () () Commissioner Falk noted a discrepancy in the amount of the trail fees. He requested clarification. Mr. Johnson eXplained that the amount of the trail fee listed on the application was applicable in 1999, however, the fees have since been amended. Motion by Apel, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearing at 12:25 a.m. Motion carried on a 6- ayes, b-nays, I-absent vote. Del Hassan, the applicant stated he did not require a variance, and this proposal is in compliance with the City requirements. There was no further public input. Motion by Hedin, seconded by Apel, to close the public hearing at 12:27 a.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Dalien stated this appeared to be a reasonable request, which meets all of the City ordinances, therefore, he would move to forward a favorable recommendation to the City Council. t\ U Motion by Dalien, seconded by Kirchoff, to forward to thc City Council a recommendation of approval of a resolution approving the lot split request of Del Hassan pursuant to Ordinance No. 40 on the property located at 17674 Flintwood Street NW. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Chair Squires stated this item would be considered at the March 6, 2000 City Council meeting. OTHER BUSINESS. Mr. Hinzman advised that Tim Kirchoff has been appointed as a new mcmbcr of the Planning and Zoning Commission, and Larry Dalien is now the acting Chair. Mr. Hinzman updated the Commission regarding previous Council actions. He stated the Council approved the lot split on Makah Street, and granted the variance request for a hont yard setback on Larch Street. He indicated the Council also approved the final plat for the Sunridge Development. There was no other business to come before the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Hedin, seconded by Falk, to adjourn_ Motion carried on a 6-aycs, a-nays, I-absent vote. CJ The meeting adjourned at 12:30 a.m. o o o --I Regular Andover Planning ~dl Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2000 Page 70 Respectfully submitted, Trish Pearson, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc. r\ 10