HomeMy WebLinkAboutDecember 7, 2000
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CITY of ANDOVER
'ARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING - DECEMBER 7,2000
MINUTES
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Park and Recreation Commission was called
to order by Chairman Jim Lindahl on December 7,2000, 7:32 p.m., at the Andover City Hall,
1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Al Grabowski, Jim Lindahl, Dave O'Toole, and Paul Anderson.
Jeff Kieffer arrived at 8:34 p.m.
Commissioners absent:
Valerie Holthus and Tom Anderson.
Also present:
Park Coordinator, Todd Haas
RESIDENTS FORUM
There was none.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Grabowski, to approve the October 5, 2000 and the
November 16'2000 regular Park Commission meeting minutes as presented. Motion carried on
a 3-ayes, 0 -nays, I-present (Paul Anderson) and 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and
Kieffer) vote.
CHESTERTON COMMONS NORTH 2^'D ADDITION PRELIMINARY PLATIPARK
DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS
WOODLAND OAKS PRELIMINARY PLAT/PARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS
WHITE PINE ESTATES PRELIMiNARY PLATIPARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS
Mr. Haas presented the staff reports for all three issues at once, since they were all related. He
stated that the Conunission has been asked to review and recOlmnend Park Dedication
requirements for the proposed developments, he reminded the Conunission that they had
suggested they be cash in lieu ofland during review of the sketch plan review.
He explained that the City Council expressed some interest when the sketch plan was proposed
of the possibility of having an interior trail along certain streets to allow for safe access to the
area where the park is proposed to be located. He stated that staff recommends an 8 foot wide
trail, with the developer being responsible for a 5 foot sidewalk leaving the City responsible to
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 2
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pay for the extra 3 feet in widening to accommodate for a trail multi-users (bikes, skateboards,
rollerblades, ect.
Chairman Lindahl questioned if it is correct to say that there would be no tot lots until the
middle part has developed. Mr. Haas stated that that is correct.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned if a 5-foot sidewalk would be sufficient.
Chairman Lindahl mentioned that the City wouldn't be able to promote the path as a bike trail
ifit is only a 5-foot sidewalk.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned who would be responsible for the maintenance of the trail.
He suggested the homeowners be responsible for caring for their traiUsidewalk on their
property.
Mr. Haas explained that all existing City sidewalks and trails are currently being maintained by
the City.
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Commissioner Grabowski questioned what it costs the City to maintain every park and trail that
currently exists. He stated that he would prefer not putting in anymore additional parks or
trails until the City Council adds additional employees to maintain them.
Chairman Lindahl questioned if the City's intent is to hire additional help for next year. Mr.
Haas stated that there will be two part-time employees added for the summer.
COlmnissioner O'Toole suggested that it be stated in the ordinance that the homeowners are
responsible for the upkeep of the sidewalk.
Chainnan Lindahl questioned it the trail would be asphalt if it were 8 feet in width. Mr. Haas
stated that no it wouldn't be asphalt. He displayed pictures of a concrete and a bituminous
sidewalk in Maple Grove as to the difference in appearance of each.
Chairman Lindahl suggested going with a 5-foot sidewalk with the homeowners responsible for
maintenance. He mentioned that the City wouldn't put it on the trail plan, however people
could use it as a bike trail if they so desired. He stated that he feels an 8-foot concrete trail
would look ridiculous running in front of the houses.
Mr. Haas stated that even though it wouldn't be considered a bike trail people would use it as
one, however it wouldn't be safe since it would be only 5-feet.
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Chairman Lindahl stated that the kids that are 11 or 12 years of age would be biking on the
street anyway. Mr. Haas questioned the trail near the railroad tracks. Chairman Lindahl stated
that he wouldn't have a problem with that.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 3
Commissioner Grabowski suggested the trail be 8-feet, however would prefer nothing take
place at this time.
Chairman Lindahl mentioned that if the goal is for a bike trail, then he would prefer to see it
run in behind each lot instead of having it out on the street. He stated that he is not in favor of
an 8-foot sidewalk.
Commissioner Grabowski agreed with Chairman Lindahl to have a 5-foot sidewalk over an 8-
foot.
The developer Mr. Westlund stated that he is currently working up in the City of Zimmerman
on a development that's putting in an 8-foot bituminous trail.
Chairman Lindahl questioned how close the trail will be to town. Mr. Westlund stated that it
will be in town.
Chairman Lindahl questioned ifthere would be anyway that the developments could run the
trail between the lots, in addition to making the trail bituminous. He stated that it's possible an
8-foot concrete sidewalk could cause problems down the line, furthermore the City doesn't
have the maintenance power to keep it clean.
Commissioner Anderson stated that he would rather see a bituminous trail run between the lots,
since there are a lot of issues to be concerned with if the trail runs in front of the homes.
Leon Opatz, Developer's Engineer, representing White Pine Estates stated that the problem
with running the trail between the lots is that there is a large portion of wetlands on the site,
therefore it would be difficult. He stated that they would prefer a 5-foot sidewalk.
Mr. Westlund stated that it would be very difficult for him since it is in the Preliminary Plat
stages, and would effect the lots in terms of build ability.
Chainnan Lindahl" mentioned that the spacing would look lopsided if the sidewalk were placed
in front, since it isn't possible to move the house back anymore due to the wetlands. He stated
that if it isn't possible to put the trail in the back, then he would suggest a 5-foot sidewalk.
COlmnissioner O'Toole questioned if the 5 or 8-foot sidewalk would be concrete at a minimum
and the driveways could be concrete or asphalt. Mr. Haas stated that that is correct.
Chairman Lindahl stated that he doesn't mind the idea ofa 5-foot sidewalk.
COlmnissioner Anderson questioned what the Council's intention is for the sidewalk. He
questioned if they are suggesting the sidewalk to be a connection to the other trials.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 4
Commissioner Grabowski stated that if the purpose of the trail is to walk and for minimal
biking throughout the neighborhood, then a 5-foot sidewalk would be fme. However if the
purpose is to get to the other trails, then it needs to be a trail.
Commissioner O'Toole suggested accepting the cash in lieu ofland and if the Commission
wants to go with an 8-foot sidewalk he didn't have a problem with it.
Chairman Lindahl suggested listing the issues the Commission is concerned about, for example
maintenance, aesthetics, and general upkeep of the trial.
Mr. Haas questioned if the Commission agrees with the trail on 161st. The Commission all
agreed.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned if any of the developments are considered a PUD. Mr. Haas
stated that White Pine Estates is a PUD. He questioned if there has been consideration
regarding the four requirements that are to be made.
Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that with the four requirements in the PUD, there has to
be something put back into the City. He stated that this is not part of the Park Dedication Fee.
Mr. Haas stated that he is unsure of what is being put back into the City, but would look into it
further.
Commissioner O'Toole stated that the only reason he brings it up is because there are 2 more
PUDs on the agenda and it is important to treat them all the same.
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Grabowski, to recOlmnend to the City Council that the Park
Dedication requirements for Chesterton Commons North 2nd Addition be cash in lieu ofland.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and Kieffer) vote.
Motion by Grabowski, seconded by Anderson, to recommend to the City Council that the Park
Dedication requirements for Woodland Oaks be cash in lieu of land. Motion carried on a 4-
ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and Kieffer) vote.
Motion by Anderson, seconded by O'Toole, to recommend to the City Council that the Park
Dedication requirements for White Pine Estates be cash in lieu ofland. Motion carried on a 4-
ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and Kieffer) vote.
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Grabowski, to forward the following comments to the City
Council regarding the interior trail to run throughout the developments:
. Have the requirements been met for White Pine Estates for the increase in density.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 5
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. That a 5-foot wide concrete sidewalk would be more aesthetically pleasing than an
8-foot wide concrete trail, but wouldn't meet the bike standards.
. Concerned with the maintenance issues, would there be more hours added or more
employees. Another possibility is for the homeowners to care for their portion of the
trail.
. What purpose is the City Council intending the trail to serve.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and Kieffer) vote.
AZTEC ESTATES PRELIMINARY PLAT/PARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS
Mr. Haas explained that the Commission is being asked to review and recommend the Park
Dedication requirements for Aztec Estates. He reminded the Commission that earlier they had
suggested the requirements to be cash in lieu ofland. He stated that an 8-foot trail is being
proposed, with the developer responsible for 5-feet and the City responsible for the remaining
3-feet.
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Commissioner O'Toole stated that he has the same questions as the previous discussion. He
questioned what requirements are being met on the PUD. Mr. Haas stated that he would have
to fmd out more information.
Chairman Lindahl questioned if staff is recommending an 8-foot sidewalk. He stated that if so
then the comments from the previous discussion would also pertain to Aztec Estates. He stated
that he is in favor of the trail along Bunker Lake Blvd. He questioned if that trail would be the
City's responsibility. Mr. Haas stated that it would be the City's responsibility.
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Grabowski, to recommend to the City Council that the Park
Dedication requirements for Aztec Estates be cash in lieu of land. Motion carried on a 4-ayes,
O-nays, 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and Kieffer) vote.
Chairman Lindahl stated that the COlmnents regarding the trail are the same as the previous
discussion. The comments are listed below.
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. What requirements are being met on the PUD for Aztec Estates.
. That a 5-foot concrete sidewalk would be more aesthetically pleasing, but wouldn't
meet the bike standards.
. Concerned with the maintenance issues, would there be rnore hours added or more
employees. Another possibility is for the homeowners to care for their portion of the
trail.
. What purpose is the City Council intending the trail to serve.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 6
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NATURES RUN PRELIMINARY PLAT/PARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS
Mr. Haas explained that the Park Commission is being asked to review and recommend Park
Dedication requirements for Natures Run. He reminded the Commission that earlier they had
suggested the requirements be a combination of cash and land. He mentioned that also up for
discussion is the trail along the south side of Andover Blvd. between Hummingbird Street and
Hanson Blvd. He stated that staffis recommending that a trail be constructed along this section
to allow for a safe route to Hanson Blvd. where there currently is a regional trail.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned once again what requirements are being met for the PUD.
He stated that the trail should be part of the PUD. He mentioned that it shouldn't take that
much parkland and if so then there should be some concession for parkland.
Mr. Haas pointed out the location of the trail. He stated that the reason for the location is
because the soils are better.
COlmnissioner O'Toole questioned if the trail along Coon Creek could be the trail easement
instead of dedicated park land. Mr. Haas explained that it could and that if the Commission
~) agrees with this, a recommendation should be made.
Commissioner O'Toole stated that his recommendation is that we accept it as an trail easement
as part of the PUD and accept cash in lieu ofland.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that he agrees with Commissioner O'Toole.
COlmnissioner O'Toole added that there should be a stipulation on the preliminary plat that a
trail easement is being proposed along the creek where previously discussed.
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Anderson, to recommend to the City Council the following
comments:
. That the Park Dedication requirements be cash in lieu of land for Natures Run.
. That there be a trail easement dedicated from Hanson Blvd. down along the north
side of the creek (over the existing sanitary sewer line) and a portion of the south
side near the west end of the plat to construct a trail system.
. That the trail would be constructed using trail funds.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, a-nays, 3-absent (Holthus, Tom Anderson, and Kieffer) vote.
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Commissioner Kieffer arrived at 8:34 p.m.Commissioner Grabowski suggested that another
comment that should be forwarded to the Council is what was Natures Run's concession as a
PUD.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 7
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING 2001 USER FEES FOR
THE USE OF FIELDS AND HOCKEY RINKS
Mr. Haas stated that the COlmnission is being requested to recOlmnend to the City Council a
resolution establishing the 200 1 user fees for the use of fields and hockey rinks. He mentioned
that also up for review by the Commission is the application for scheduled use of recreational
facilities, tournament application fonn for softball and baseball, and tournament application
from soccer.
Mr. Kieffer questioned what the City has received in the past in regards to adult hockey. Mr.
Haas stated nothing.
COImnissioner O'Toole questioned if the maintenance department is happy with the fee. Mr.
Haas stated that Frank Stone has been concerned because the weekends are costly.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned if the fees charged are enough to cover the maintenance
fees.
/ ) Commissioner Grabowski suggested the Cushman fee be written somewhere on the fonn.
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Motion by Kieffer, seconded by O'Toole, to recommend to the City Council approval of
Resolution No. _-00 establishing the 200 I User Fees for the use of Fields and Hockey Rinks
within the City of Andover, including the following recolmnendation:
· That the Cushman Fee be stated or written somewhere on the fonn.
Motion carried on a 5-ayes, a-nays, 2-absent (Holthus and Tom Anderson) vote.
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING 2001 USER FEES FOR
SHELTER AT SUNSHINE PARK
Mr. Haas stated that the Commission is being asked to recommend approval of a resolution,
establishing 200l user fees for the use of the picnic shelter at Sunshine Park. He mentioned
that the City had 9 reservations this past year.
COImnissioner Grabowski questioned if staff is aware of the reasons the shelter is being rented
out. He also questioned when were the most popular times it was rented. Mr. Haas stated that
it was rented about 3 times per month.
COImnissioner Grabowski suggested putting it in the newsletter in May of next year. He
questioned if staff has received any complaints regarding the fee being at $25. Mr. Haas stated
that there have been no complaints.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 8
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if there have been any reports from Kevin regarding the
condition the facility was in after being used. Mr. Haas stated that Kevin hasn't brought it up
as ever being a problem.
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Kieffer, to recOlmnend to the City Council approval of
Resolution No. _-00 establishing 2001 User Fees for the use of Picnic Shelter at Sunshine
Park within the City of Andover. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Holthus and
Tom Anderson) vote.
UPDATE OF FISHING PIER AT ANDOVER LAKE, CONT.
Mr. Haas explained that staff has not received a response from the Coon Creek Watershed
District. He stated that it is on the agenda for Monday night, therefore we should receive a
response by January.
DISCUSS SKATEBOARDIROLLERBLADE FACILITY GUIDELINES, CONT.
Mr. Haas explained staff has included a brochure from TrueRide in your packet. He stated that
the brochure gives a good idea of different layouts that are available. He mentioned that the
next step is to have a couple Park Commissioners meet with the kids who are interested in the
facility to find out exactly what they want.
Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that the facility in Coon Rapids seems to be put together
well. Mr. Haas stated that the few times he has driven buy the facility he has seen a minimum
of25 kids.
COlmnissioner O'Toole questioned what the consensus is from the Commission as to the
recOlmnend location. He suggested out by the hockey rink at the City Hall.
Chainnan Lindahl suggested it be located over by Sunshine Park, especially with the high
school close by.
Commissioner mentioned that the WDE site is probably not a good location since it won't be
completed for a few years.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that it might be a bad idea putting a facility next to Sunshine,
because of the amount of vandalism to the area.
Commissioner O'Toole stated that he would support having it at either Sunshine Park or the
City Hall.
Commissioner Anderson suggested the facility be located at the City Hall.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 9
Mr. Haas mentioned that the only problem with putting the facility at the City Hall is that it
could end up being moved and then the money would be wasted.
COlmnissioner Grabowski mentioned that the WDE site is probably five years down the road,
and since all the trails and developments are around this area, it only makes sense to have it
closer.
Commissioner Anderson and Commissioner O'Toole volunteered to be on the Task Force.
UPDATE OF SELLING OF EXISTING PARKS, CONT.
Mr. Haas stated that staff has discussed the process with Jean Rafferty, Land Commissioner
with Anoka County. He explained that the process that would need to take place if the
Conunission decides to pursue the selling of parks.
Chair Lindahl stated that it would be foolish to sell the land only to buy it back again. Mr.
Haas explained that the City would give it to the state to get it unrestricted and then they would
give it back to the City so we could sell it unrestricted.
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COlmnissioner Grabowski questioned how many acres it would involve. Mr. Haas explained
that Cedar Crest is .87 acre and Tulip Street is 1.5 acres.
Conunissioner O'Toole questioned if there is any way of knowing a price before giving the
land back to the state. Mr. Haas stated that the City would have to put an application in first.
COlmnissioner O'Toole stated that it would be possible for the state to sell the land themselves
if the City didn't buy it back. He mentioned that if the state asks S5000 for the land and we
only find a buyer for $2000, then we could lose $3000.
COlmnissioner Grabowski suggested Mr. Haas contact the neighbors to see if they would be
interested in purchasing the land, and if they are then the Conunission can pursue it.
Mr. Haas mentioned that there were some concerned citizens at the last Planning Commission
meeting that suggested the Park Commission preserve some areas in the City as parkland.
COlmnissioner Grabowski stated that since the City doesn't have enough people to maintain all
the areas, some have them such as these have begun to collect garbage.
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Commissioner Anderson questioned if the land is buildable. Mr. Haas stated that no the land is
not buildable.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 10
DISCUSS 2001 GRANT APPLICATION ROUND
Mr. Haas explained that the Commission is being requested to consider if additional
applications are made for 2001 grant application round. He stated that 2 grants (Hawkridge and
Wild Iris Park) were applied for during this past year that will be carried over into their 2001
round automatically. He also stated that there are two outstanding trail grants that were
awarded to the City but have not been accepted or rejected by the City Council.
Chairman Lindahl stated that the City first needs to clean up what we have already and then
revisit it down the road.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that he agrees with Chairman Lindahl in that the City can't
extend themselves anymore.
DISCUSS DNR GRANTS/98-20
Mr. Haas explained that the Commission is being asked to recommend to the City Council
either rejection or acceptance of the DNR grants that have been awarded to the City. He stated
that the 2 grants that were awarded were the underpass on Hanson Blvd. at Andover
.' '\ Elementary School and the underpass on Bunker Lake Blvd. on the east side of the railroad
<_J tracks.
COlmnissioner Grabowski questioned if the county is willing to sign up for this and agree to
making the payments. Mr. Haas explained that the total is for $250,000, $50,00 paid by the
DNR and the remaining $200,000 split by the City and the County.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that it would be too good of a deal for the City to pass up. He
suggested creating a passage way to the wave pool.
Chairman Lindahl stated that the consensus ofthe Commission is to recommend the underpass
on Bunker Lake Blvd.
Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Kieffer, to recommend to the City Council acceptance of the
Underpass on Bunker Lake Boulevard NW on the east side of the railroad tracks. Motion
canied on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Holthus and Tom Anderson) vote.
DISCUSS 5 YEAR PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BUDGET
Mr. Haas stated that staffis not ready to discuss the 5 Year Park Capital Improvement Budget.
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DISCUSS 2001 PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BUDGET
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 11
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Mr. Haas explained that the Commission is being asked to recommend to the Public Works the
200 I Park Capital Improvement Budget to be forwarded to the City Council for approval. He
stated that listed in the staff report are the top five parks needing new playground equipment.
He stated that $40,000 was approved for the budget. He also mentioned that it will probably
take $40,000 to do just the City Hall park.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that it does need to be put back in the City Hall Park, however
the City does need to advertise it more.
Commissioner O'Toole stated that the City has to either remove what is there completely or put
the money back into the park.
Commissioner Kieffer suggested raising Wild Iris on the priority list. Commissioner
Grabowski agreed that Wild Iris should be raised on the priority list, he suggested making it the
#1 priority for the year 2002.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned if Mr. Stone would agree that the City Hall park should be
the #1 priority. Mr. Haas stated that they have put together a list of parks on the priority list,
however they also want the input of the Park COlmnission.
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'--..) Motion by O'Toole, seconded by Grabowski, to recommend to Public Works and the City
Council that the City Hall Park # I be the priority for 200 I, with the improvements to be no
more than $40,000. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Holthus and Tom Anderson)
vote.
Commissioner O'Toole questioned ifthere are any CDBG Funds that would be available. Mr.
Haas stated that the money is pretty well spent for the year 200 I.
UPDATE OF JOINT MEETING WITH CITY COUNCIL
Mr. Haas explained that the City Council has agreed to schedule a joint meeting with the Park
Commission after the City Council interviews for the 3 vacancies on the Commission. Mr.
Haas stated that those individuals whose term is up are Jeff Kieffer, Tom Anderson, and Al
Grabowski. He mentioned that anyone interested in serving should fill out an application.
REVIEW ISSUES LIST
Mr. Haas reviewed the review issues list.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
(J Commissioner O'Toole questioned if the meeting on the ballfIelds is on December 12th. Mr.
Haas stated that the meeting is on December 13th at 6:30 p.m.
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Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - December 7, 2000
Page 12
ADJOURNMENT
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Motion by Kieffer, seconded by Grabowski, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The
meeting adjourned at 9:33 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sara Beck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver qff Site Secretarial, Inc.