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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 5, 2000 o o o o o CITY of ANDOVER PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING -OCTOBER 5, 2000 MINUTES The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Chairperson Jim Lindahl on October 5,2000, 7:34 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Al Grabowski, Valerie Holthus, Jim Lindahl, and Paul Anderson. Jeff Kieffer arrived at 8:01 p.m. Commissioners absent: Dave O'Toole and Tom Anderson. Also present: . Park Coordinator, Todd Haas RESIDENTS FORUM There was none. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Motion by Holthus, seconded by Grabowski, to approve the September 21,2000 regular Park Commission meeting minutes as written. Motion carried on a 2 - ayes, 0 - nays, 2 - present (Lindahl and Paul Anderson), and 3 - absent (Tom Anderson, Dave O'Toole, and Jeff Kieffer). DISCUSS ORDINANCE 10, SECTION9.07/PARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS, CONT. Commissioner Grabowski felt that the market value for the school will be around $35,000 per acre. Chair Lindahl questioned the fee paid as $1,100 per lot under the recent Park Dedication Fees Paid in the spreadsheet Commissioner Grabowski stated that whatever year the preliminary plat was approved is what the fee is, however they don't pay the park dedication fee until the next year which is mostly the time the fmal plat is recorded. He mentioned that it should really be paid at the current rate for the year the fmal plat is being recorded, therefore if they wait a year then they should pay at the new rate. Chair Lindahl questioned if it would be possible to split the fee. He stated that typically the City looses is in high density. u u :.J Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 Page 2 Mr. Haas stated that if the City rezoned the higher density areas from residential to multiple we wouldn't gain that much more with the 10%. He also stated that a line can't be drawn at 16l st Avenue since there is a lot of rural land south of the line that still could develop into rural lots. Chair Lindahl mentioned that he was told that it can't be based on that, but instead the value of land. Mr. Haas explained his statement further. Commissioner Holthus questioned if it would be possible to use the loan to value for anything not zoned multiple. Chair Lindahl stated that if that were the case the City could be hit with appraisals. Commissioner Grabowski stated that the commission needs to prove to the Council how much park dedication funds was actually lost. He stated that the City lost approximately $70,000 in park dedication fees. He suggested that the City either use a realistic price when determining the fee per unit based on market value or go back and use the 1 0% which is then used on market value when determining the park dedication fees. (J Commissioner Holthus stated that she would be interested in knowing how the numbers fall out based on the zoning of the land. Commissioner Grabowski stated that Woodland Estates 2nd and Sunridge are two of the most recent developments that the City collected on a per unit. Mr. Haas explained that some could change it to multiple zoning and in some instances they can get a special use permit in residential zoning district. Chair Lindahl suggested the City look at revising the ordinance. He also suggested the amount be decided when the land is platted. Mr. Haas stated that he is unsure if it would be possible to get the cost per unit up to the land value right now. Commissioner Grabowski stated that it seems that the only way out is to go back to the 10% requirement, however he mentioned concems whether or not the Council would approve it. Chair Lindahl stated that if the Council is opposed to the 10% then the commission needs to fmd out why. Mr. Haas stated that to his knowledge the Council would be concemed with raising the unit charge too much. CJ Commissioner Grabowski stated that people that are moving into the Andover area typically want parks in their development. He mentioned that an additional $500 would probably not stop someone from building. C) :.J 8 () o Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 Page 3 Chair Lindahl stated that the commission needs to have a plan as to what they want to present to the Council at the joint meeting. Commissioner Anderson questioned if Bloomington is listed in the staff report. Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that in the past the Council made the agreement to review it every year. Chair Lindahl mentioned that there are quite a few cities near the $1500 mark. Mr. Haas stated that to his understanding Maple Grove is typically 10-12.5%. Chair Lindahl suggested that maybe the City should go to using the 10%, however the only problem is that everyone argues that it is based on last years values. Dave Blackstad, 143xx Vintage Street, stated that the 10% works if the City stays within 2 units per acre. He mentioned that the problems arise when the density goes higher since the City ends up loosing. Commissioner Grabowski suggested that maybe the rural areas should pay 10%. Mr. Blackstad stated that then the City would be penalizing the rural areas. Chair Lindahl stated that that is where the special use permit could come in is ifthe density is higher. He suggested there be a clause in the ordinance to catch it. Commissioner Grabowski stated that 10% would definitely be the easiest, however what about the multiple housing. Mr. Haas mentioned that a multiple zoning district is typically higher priced. Commissioner Grabowski stated that it isn't that much higher. Mr. Haas stated that it would be priced high enough to assure the City would get their fair share for the park dedication fee based on the 10% requirement. Mr. Haas suggested the commission tries to get back to what was previously in the ordinance. Commissioner Grabowski stated that it is unlikely that the City Attorney will recommend the Council take that action. Mr. Haas questioned if anyone on the commission thinks that there will be more multiples than single family homes in the future. Chair Lindahl questioned if the City has a housing projection for future. Mr. Haas stated that the City projects that there will be approximately 45,000 people in a certain number of years. u u Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 : ) Page 4 Commissioner Grabowski stated that the Metropolitan Council says 5 years. Commissioner Holthus suggested that it be $1400 per unit zoned multiple, 10% for single family, and a special clause for all PUD's. Mr. Haas stated that the commission needs to try and get the fee to where it belongs since the City has already lost approximately $70,000. He stated that it is likely the Council will not raise the fee and make a big jump in doing so, therefore it will be a losing battle. Mr. Blackstad stated that the City would in all reality need to go to $1,800 per unit to keep up with the price of land, he suggested charging the developers a fee. Mr. Haas stated that from past experience, the Commission has found it to be difficult to raise the fee. Chair Lindahl stated that the commission needs to make a decision as to how they want to propose it to the Council. Mr. Haas suggested throwing it out to the Council first. :. ) Commissioner Grabowski suggested solving it by putting something in for multiple housing. He agreed to let the Council throw it on the table first, and after that go back to the 10%. Mr. Blackstad suggested to the commission to be careful since the Council may approve using a 10% across the board. He stated that the City would probably loose even more due to all the multiples going in. Commissioner Holthus questioned Mr. Blackstad as to what he knows about future multiples in the City. Mr. Blackstad stated that he knows of one 300-apartment complex that is scheduled to be developed for sure. Mr. Haas mentioned that the Council may not require them to pay the park dedication fee. Mr. Blackstad explained that he was referring to a different complex. Commissioner Kieffer arrived at 8:01 p.m. Chair Lindahl stated that to use the 10% up to the north will be fme, however it is around here where they can develop multiples that becomes the problem. :J Mr. Haas stated that he would do some research to see if there is a map available which states where the future multiples will be located. Chair Lindahl stated that at the joint meeting the commission will talk about the 10%, but also the possibility of putting a provision on the multiple housing. u o Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 ~J Page 5 Commission Grabowski stated that the good thing is that no one will get hurt if there is no multiple housing. Mr. Blackstad mentioned that another concern is the trail fee, however that is a transportation issue and shouldn't be confused with park dedication fees. Commissioner Anderson questioned if the commission is prepared to answer why they want to raise the park dedication fees. Chair Lindahl stated that the answer to that question will be discussed under the next agenda item. Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that park dedication fees are not to be used for the general maintenance of parks but instead new parks. DISCUSS ANOKA COUNTY LIBRARY TRAIL/OO-17 ~J Connie Beckman, 41 72-l46th Avenue NW, stated that about 9 months ago she approached the commission regarding the possibility of a trail connecting to the new Anoka County Library on Bunker Lake Blvd west of 7th Avenue. She mentioned that she has been working with residents and made a presentation at the Anoka Park and Recreation Commission meeting recently. She stated that the petition that was submitted to the Anoka Park and Recreation Commission was approved with the understanding that a trail would be constructed by the City of Andover on 7th A venue. She explained that she has now been informed that only part of the trail will be completed and requested the Commission clarify the reason for this. Chair Lindahl stated the original agreement. He mentioned that a problem developed with the property to the NE. He explained that they approached the City Council regarding that and to try and receive some assistance and support, however at this time nothing has taken place with that property. He mentioned that the City would have to condemn the property and if that were to happened we would lose out of the trail fee and as a result end up paying out and not receive anything back in return. Ms. Beckman stated that she was confused regarding the condemn~tion of the property. Mr. Haas stated that he is unsure at this point if the City would need any easements to construct . this portion of the trail. Chair Lindahl explained that if the City puts the trail in now we'll end up paying that whole stretch out of park dedication, however if we wait 2-3 years then we'd have some assistance. (j Mr. Haas stated that this is one of the areas to multiple and the park trail fund would pay for it at 100%, however if it stays commercial they would be responsible for 100% of the cost. u u Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 ~J Page 6 Mr. Haas stated that the City is doing a feasibility report and once it is completed they plan to present it to the Council. He also mentioned that the Comprehensive Plan is almost [mished and if it shows as a future multiple then it would be different. Mr. Kieffer questioned what a rough estimate would be for the trail. Mr. Haas stated that the cost is approximately $10-$12 per foot. Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that the City is stuck since it is unknown at this time what will happen to that land. Chair Lindahl stated that the Commission feels that connecting the trails will be an influence for the connections to the north and east. (J Ms. Beckman stated that when the petition was signed it was the assumption that things were underway. She mentioned that with all of the money put into renovation and the trail system there is slim to no traffic which is such a waste of trail fund dollars not to open up another trail. She mentioned that the residents want access. She also mentioned that the trail is close enough to send our kids, when really it isn't safe. She stated that the one thing she keeps hearing over and over from the Commission is that you don't have enough dollars. She suggested the Commission goes to the City Council and expresses their concerns. Chair Lindahl stated that the commission agrees with her, however they have presented the issue to the Council in the past and they've said no. Ms. Beckman mentioned that the residents aren't informed that the Council isn't willing to cooperate. She suggested the Commission writes a letter and submits it as a publication to inform the public. Chair Lindahl explained that the Commission pleads every year with the Council on the budget. Ms. Beckman suggested the Commission to write a letter within the next two weeks. Commissioner Holthus suggested the residents write a letter since it may make a larger impact. Commissioner Grabowski stated that the commission can't spend the money without approval from the Council. Ms. Beckman stated that she understands the position the Commission is in. She suggested the Commission contact various civic groups and organizations to assist with more funding. C) Commissioner Grabowski stated that the Commission just doesn't have the funds. Mr. Haas explained that the Commission would have some funds if the Council would have assessed the adjacent property. u (J Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 :J Page 7 Chair Lindahl stated that he agrees with Ms. Beckman regarding the traffic on 7th Avenue and her concerns regarding the trails. He stated that unfortunately this is a secondary thought, however if more people start using the library it will help to make it a priority. Ms. Beckman suggested the Commission approach local clubs and organizations in hopes to team up with the City. Commissioner Grabowski suggested the residents attend the joint meeting with the City Council on October 19th or if nothing else watch it on cable TV. Chair Lindahl stated that he has been on the Commission for 10 years and has found that the Commission doesn't get the support from the Council it would like to have. Ms. Beckman stated that she is willing to contact the organizations, but only if she is guaranteed the support from the Commission. () Chair Lindahl stated that Ms. Beckman given outstanding efforts in hopes to develop the trail. He stated that the Commission's hands are tied until there is funding and approval. Mr. Blackstad stated that it was the Council that turned you down not the Commission. Chair Lindahl stated that the Council will not do anything until something is changed with that property. Mr. Haas stated that a lot of trail funds for next year will need to be reserved for new trails that will be constructed in the new subdivisions. Chair Lindahl questioned what the time projection is for the property off 7th A venue. Mr. Haas stated that he would look into it further. Mr. Haas suggested Ms. Beckman attend the joint meeting on October 19th. Chair Lindahl stated that he would gladly support it, however the timing is probably not right since we are going into the winter months. He suggested waiting until after the fIrst of the year. DISCUSS AGENDA FOR OCTOBER 19, 2000 MEETING WITH CITY COUNCIL, CONT. Mr. Haas reviewed the items on the agenda for the joint meeting with the City Council. (J Mr. Blackstad stated that in regards to the school project there was a recommendation made by three Councilmembers early in the project that a committee be formed to assist with future decisions that need to be made. I . u CJ r~ , '-./ Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 Page 8 Item #4. Mr. Blackstad suggested the City construct 4 fIelds at the WDE site, since it is much easier for families to go to one site where all their kids can participate in activities. He mentioned that currently they are booked with emollment. He also mentioned that even with four fIelds there will still be room for two hockey rinks and rollerblading on the west end. Commissioner Anderson questioned if there is room for 4 fIelds. Mr. Blackstad stated that there is plenty of room for 4 fIelds, two hockey rinks, and a skateboarding facility. Mr. Haas stated that the City Council needs to give the EDA the direction, however the EDA will need to be the one that makes the fmal decision. Chair Lindahl stated that the Commission needs to support the 4 fIeld system. Mr. Haas stated that it is generally a good idea to keep everything together if all possible. Item #5. C) Commissioner Grabowski stated that he is not in favor of having rollerblade and skateboard facilities at Sunshine Park. Chair Lindahl disagreed and stated that it is important to have facilities available rather than having them ride in areas where it is not safe. Item #7. Commissioner Grabowski stated that we end up using park dedication for new parks, however isn't it suppose to be the other way around. Mr. Haas mentioned that he would talk to the Finance Director and fInd out if it is acceptable to use the park dedication fund on new parks. Colnrnissioner Grabowski stated that a lot of money comes out of the maintenance budget and would there be enough money. Chair Lindahl stated that he would support trying to get more money. Item #8. :' ) '-_J Chair Lindahl stated that they broke it down and fIgured out the manpower needed. He stated that it doesn't make sense why anyone would think that we don't need another body since we are growmg. r) '-- u r~~'1 ,j Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 Page 9 Mr. Haas stated that Frank Stone, Public Works Superintendent, agrees that he needs more people in the summer, however doesn't see the need for anyone during the winter months. Mr. Haas suggested Chair Lindahl talk with Mr. Stone to understand where he stands on all the Issues. Item #9. Chair Lindahl stated that it came up at the budget meeting. He mentioned that they believe the position could generate enough funds to justify the job with part of the money coming from the youth programs. Mr. Blackstad questioned why the City would want to hire someone to create the schedule when the associations do it for free. He stated that the only other way would is if the City put adult softball on Sunshine Park. Chair Lindahl stated that the youth come first. ~J Chair Lindahl suggested Mr. Blackstad provide some numbers for the Council at the joint meeting. Commissioner Grabowski stated that the biggest problem is fmding the money to fund it. He stated that most of that complex was paid for by donations, and volunteers even went out to get the materials. He stated that residents maintain it yet City staff wants to charge them to use it. Chair Lindahl explained that the suggestion at the meeting was that if the City brings this person on then the money would have to be generated in order to pay their salary. Mr. Blackstad stated that he can understand the City's point of view in that a new hire has to generate enough money to justify the position, however there isn't any other City that charges a few for youth to use their facilities. Commissioner Anderson stated that it appears the job description seen in the last staff report are the same tasks as the Community Education Director. Mr. Blackstad stated that if the responsibilities were turned over to the Community Education Director then it would only be time before the activities are at Sunshine Park. Mr. Haas questioned ifhe should add the trail fee issue to the agenda. I " ,-) Commissioner Grabowski suggested adding it to the end of the agenda as item #11. REVIEW ISSUES LIST r '\ \. -' , '\ " ~J r'. ',-) " , ( . ,j Regular Andover Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - October 5, 2000 Page 10 Mr. Haas reviewed the review issues list. Commissioner Grabowski questioned the reason the baseball organization is not allowed to use the garage and instead park the City vehicles over at the Public Works Building. Mr. Blackstad mentioned that years ago he had a conversation with Mr. Fursman that the baseball organization could use the garage for storage, however nothing ever developed. Mr. Haas stated that he would check into it further. Commissioner Grabowski requested Mr. Haas put on the review issues list Andover Lake. Mr. Haas stated that he would for the next meeting. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT Commissioner Grabowski stated that Pine Hills Park took a serious amount of vandalism this past weekend. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Kieffer, seconded by Anderson, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 9:27 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sara Beck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.