HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 15, 2001
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CITY of ANDOVER
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARO N.W.. ANOOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING -NOVEMBER 15, 2001
MINUTES
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Park and Recreation Commission was
called to order by Acting Chairman Jim Lindahl on November 15, 2001, 7:02 p.m., at the
Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Acting Chairman Jim Lindahl, Chairperson Valerie Holthus
(arrived late), Commissioners Al Grabowski, Chris English,
Paul Anderson, Chris DeLaForest and Dave Blackstad.
_Commissioners absent:
There were none.
Also present:
Parks Coordinator, Todd Haas
Others
RESIDENTS FORUM
Dory Peterson, 13904 Norway Street NW, spoke on behalf ofthe Shadowbrook
Development. She stated that she just wanted to remind the Commission that residents in
the neighborhood along with other new developments have been assessed park dedication
. fees, however they have yet to see anything in exchange for those fees.
Commissioner English explained that the fees that are collected from park dedication in a
specific development don't necessarily mean the money will go for that community only.
Ms. Peterson mentioned that it was explained to them at the time they purchased the
horne that that was the intention of the money.
Commissioner English explained that kids in the Shadowbrook neighborhood are using
fields at other parks; therefore the money in the park dedication fund goes for many
things.
Acting Chairman Lindahl mentioned that the Commission is trying to get back to the
original intent of the park dedication fund. He stated that the goal of the Commission is
to do something at Shadowbrook, however they are trying to get away from tot lots parks.
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Regular Andover Park & RecQion Commission Meeting
Minutes-November 15.2001
Page 2
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'-J Ms. Peterson stated that they are just concerned and don't want to end up getting pushed
back any further. Commissioner English explained that the later during the meeting the
Commission will be discussing the results from the work session where each park was
given a numerical score based on a number of objectives. He encouraged her to stay for
the rest of the meeting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Grabowski stated that the minutes currently reflect that Finance Director
Jim Dickinson was present, however that wasn't the case.
Motion by Grabowski, seconded by English, to approve the November 1, 2001 minutes
as amended. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
APPROVE 2001-2002 HOCKEY RINK SCHEDULE
Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that the individual that sent the Anoka schedule is
the Director. He mentioned that he is in favor of approving the schedule. He went on to
explain why.
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Mr. Haas stated that a coach from the Anoka Area Hockey Association would also like to
use the rink now for roller balding at the City Hall, however they would need to check out
a key. He questioned how the Commission felt about doing this. Commissioner
Grabowski stated that his concern is that there is an end date on the agreement so Public
Works is able to water it down when winter sets in.
Kevin Dickison representing the Anoka Area Hockey Association explained that the
application he sent in is for the whole association. Commissioner Blackstad stated Mr.
Dickison application is fine, however the other application from Anoka just received
before the meeting isn't right and would not be approved, as the league director would
need to sign the application.
Motion by Blackstad, seconded by DeLaForest, to approve the 2001-2002 Hockey Rink
Schedule for Anoka and Blaine Hockey Associations. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, Q-
nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
NORTH LAKE RIDGE SKETCH PLAN
The applicant wasn't present.
Motion by English, seconded by Grabowski, to accept cash in lieu ofland for the North
Lake Ridge Development. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes-November 15,2001
Page 3
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\.J SILVER MEADOWS SKETCH PLAN
The applicant wasn't present.
Motion by English to approve accepting cash in lieu of land for the Silver Meadows
Development.
Further Discussion
Commissioner B1ackstad questioned if the Commission would want a trail running
between the houses to help residents access the park.
Commissioner English questioned if staff is suggesting to maintain the entire right-of-
way on the northern boundary so if the City does want to put in a trail in the future it
would be possible.
Mr. Haas mentioned that the area to the north does consist of wetland; therefore they
would have to get a permit from the Watershed Management Organization in order to do
any disturbance to the wetland (filling or dredging).
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Robert Whitney, (no address stated), mentioned that he owns the adjoining lot. He stated
that this year the water levels are down four to six feet from the normal water table. Mr.
Haas mentioned that this development will come back as a preliminary plat, which is
when the engineering issues are addressed.
Acting Chairman Lindahl stated that the Commission is leaning towards cash in lieu of
land with the possibility of trail access. Mr. Haas stated that that would be fine.
Mr. Whitney stated that he doesn't remember anything on his title of the land other than
an easement.
Mr. Haas mentioned that even if the easement isn't there the Commission can take it as
park land.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned who owns the outlot. Mr. Haas stated that it's
private property.
Commissioner English questioned how far the tote road extends. A resident in
attendance stated that the tote road runs east and west toward the outlot.
Motion fails due to lack of a second.
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Motion by Grabowski, seconded by English, to approve accepting cash in lieu ofIand
with the possibility of a trail for the Silver Meadows Development. Motion carried on a
6-ayes,O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November J 5. 200 J
Page 4
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UPDATE OF BMX BIKE FACILITY/INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, CONT.
No action was necessary.
REVIEW APPLICATION FOR SCHEDULED USE OF RECREATIONAL
FACILITIES
Commissioner Blackstad suggested changing the application to state League President
instead of League Director.
Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that the organization may not have a director,
however they have to have a president. He suggested the application include both a
League Director and a League President.
Commissioner English suggested changing it to state League President.
Commissioner Blackstad suggested changing it to state Association President.
Commissioner English suggested on page 2 under the second notation to change the word
"approval" to "recommendation".
Motio" by Blackstad, seconded by English, to approve the Application for Scheduled Use
of Recreational Facilites as amended, changing League Director to state League
President. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
REVIEW TOURNAMENT APPLICATION FORM (SOFTBALL & BASEBALL)
Commissioner Grabowski removed himself from the discussion and voting ofthe
tournament application form for softball and/or baseball due to a conflict of interest.
Commissioner English suggested raising the tournament fee to $350 and the youth fee to
$250. He also suggested the maintenance portion increase to $600 for adult and $550 for
youth.
Commissioner DeLaForest questioned if the current fees are insufficient to cover the cost
ofthe tournaments. Commissioner Blackstad stated that there is nothing being added in
to account for the use of equipment, grooming fields, or hauling garbage.
Commissioner Blackstad suggested all adult games have maintenance provided by City
staff. Acting Chairman Lindahl agreed that this might be the way to go.
Commissioner English stated that the adult tournaments end up making a lot of money.
He recommended under section A of the application, to scratch the adult portion and
under section B add a new category for "Adult for Profit". Al Grabowski (speaking as a
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 15. 2001
Page 5
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resident) stated that it would be difficult to determine which tournament is for profit. He
suggested making it all adult games.
Commissioner English stated that raising the adult tournament fee by $150 is not
unreasonable.
Commissioner Blackstad mentioned that the youth pay a $350 damage deposit on the
cushman and $25 a day on weekends for use on the cushman. He stated that they run
their own tournaments on weekends.
Commissioner English stated that keeping the youth field usage fee at $75 would reflect
that they run their own tournaments. Commissioner Blackstad explained that the $75 fee
is in there in case another City requests to use the fields.
Commissioner Anderson questioned if the youth programs from Andover have
maintenance when there is a tournament. Mr. Grabowski stated that they pay $50 for the
use of the cushman.
Commissioner Anderson mentioned that currently the Andover youth programs pay $200.
Mr. Grabowski stated that actually the youth don't pay anything since they do their own
maintenance.
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Commissioner DeLaForest suggested not giving anyone the option of no field
maintenance. The Commission agreed there should be no option on field maintenance.
Commissioner English suggested crossing out all of section A, and under section B
increase the adult fee to $600 and $200 per field.
Commissioner DeLaForest questioned Commissioner Blackstad as to what he feels is
reasonable based on the facts. He mentioned that he's concerned there is a reason the
Commission is raising the fee. Commissioner Blackstad stated that the fees are currently
set to cover the labor, however currently neither the depreciation nor the extras are
included.
Commissioner English stated that his reason is because the adult tournaments make a lot
of money and what is wrong with the City trying to gain something. Commissioner
DeLaForest stated that he is just concerned it's associated with some kind of costs the
City incurs. He questioned how the City compares to other cities.
Commissioner Blackstad stated that the goal is for the City to be in the middle in tenns of
costs compared to other cities.
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Mr. Haas questioned how the Commission would like to handle the maintenance issue
with a non-profit organization.
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November J 5, 200 J
Page 6
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Commissioner English suggested keeping the tournament fee the same and raising the
adult usage fee to $200. He suggested getting rid of section A completely for youth, and
have a $0 youth tournament fee and a $200 field usage fee.
Acting Chairman Lindahl agreed to have the base at $200 for everyone and $500 for the
adult tournament fee.
Motion by English, seconded by Blackstad, to approve the Tournament Application Form
for Softball and Baseball, with the following changes:
I. Removing Section A on page I of the application.
2. In Section B, page I, chlL.'lging the adult and youth field usage fee to $200, from $150
and $75 respectively.
3. In Section B, page 1, changing the youth tournament fee to $0 from $500.
Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-abstain (Grabowski), I-absent (Holthus) vote.
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Commissioner Blackstad suggested deleting the sentence on page 2 of the application that
begins with "No applications will be accepted..."Also, to change the wording in the first
full paragraph on page 2 to state, "...between January 3rd and thefirst Thursday of March
and will be considered..." The Commission agreed.
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Motion by Blackstad, seconded by DeLaForest, to approve changing the language on
page 2 ofthe Tournament Application Form for Softball & Baseball to the following:
1. Removing the sentence on page 2 of the application that begins with "No applications
will be accepted..."
2. Change the wording in the first full paragraph on page 2 to state, "...between January
3rd and the first Thursday of March and will be considered..."
Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-abstain (Grabowski), I-absent (Holthus) vote.
REVIEW TOURNAMENT APPLICATION FORM (SOCCER)
Commissioner Grabowski stepped back into the discussions for the remaining items on
the agenda.
Commissioner Anderson questioned what the costs are for the City.
Commissioner Grabowski suggested leaving the application as is and amending it in the
future if necessary.
( J Commissioner Blackstad suggested on page 2 ofthe application that the sentence
beginning in "No applications will be accepted..." be removed from the application. He
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes-November 15,2001
Page 7
also suggested the next sentence be revised to state .....between January 3rd and thefirst
Thursday of March and will be considered by the..."
Motion by Blackstad, seconded by Anderson, to approve the Tournament Application
Form for Soccer with the amendment as stated by Commissioner Blackstad on page 2.
Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
REVIEW USER FEE SCHEDULE (SOFTBALL, BASEBALL, HOCKEY &
SOCCER)
Mr. Haas stated that the section on Weekend Tournaments would need to be changed to
reflect the changes made on the baseball/softball application.
Acting Chairman Lindahl stated that the "No Field Maintenance/Adult and Youth
sections should be removed, and the field usage fee per field should be changed to
$200.00 for both adult and youth. He also stated that the tournament fee for youth should
be changed to $0.00 from $500.00.
Commissioner Blackstad suggested under the Cushman Agreement it states that it's for
Andover youth only.
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Mr. Haas stated that to his understanding the Council had a difference of opinion as to
what Commissioner Blackstad is proposing.
Commissioner English mentioned that the City Attorney has also stated that the City has
to be careful not to exclude certain groups. Acting Chairman Lindahl mentioned that it's
covered under field maintenance.
Motion by English, seconded by Anderson, to approve the User Fee Schedule for
Softball, Baseball, Hockey & Soccer as amended by Acting Chairman Lindale's
statement regarding the bottom of page 2. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I-abstain
(Grabowski), and I-absent (Holthus) vote.
REVIEW APPLICATION FOR USE OF PICNIC SHELTER & FEES
Mr. Haas mentioned that the fees for the picnic shelter have had a considerable amount of
usage since they were put in place.
Motion by Anderson, seconded by Blackstad, to approve the Application for Use of
Picnic Shelter & Fees as written. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus)
vote.
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REVIEW APPLICATION FOR USE OF SUNSHINE PARK BUILDING
CONFERENCE ROOM & FEES
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Minutes - November J 5, 200 J
Page 8
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Commissioner Blackstad suggested the application also be for the use ofthe Senior
Center.
Motion by Blackstad to approve including the Senior Center in the application.
Motion fails due to lack of a second.
Motion by English, seconded by Blackstad, to approve the Application for Use of
Sunshine Park Building Conference Room & Fees as written.
Further Discussion
Commissioner Grabowski questioned how many times the facility has been used. Mr.
Haas stated that it's been used at least 2 or 3 times.
Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Holthus) vote.
REVIEW ISSUES LIST
Mr. Haas reviewed the items on the issues list.
() Commissioner Holthus arrived for the remaining items on the agenda.
Skateboard Task Force Report - Commissioner Blackstad stated that the task force is
trying to come up with ideas on how to control the problems. He stated that they
discussed the issues that need to be addressed. He mentioned that there probably will be
some type of id system for next year, where the person would get their id pulled if found
violating the rules. He stated that they plan to meet after the first ofthe year.
Commissioner Grabowski suggested Mr. Haas check to see how much it costs annually
for Anoka to have their facility supervised.
Commissioner English recommended that the Skateboard Task Force present a plan on
how to control the problems before March I, 2002. He also recommended that the skate
park not re-open until a plan has been approved that addresses the problems from this
past summer.
Acting Chairman Lindahl questioned what the criteria would be of the plan.
Commissioner English recommended that the task force just have something submitted
by March 1.
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Commissioner Anderson stated that the Commission can't rely on 5 kids and 2 adults to
solve all the problems. He stated that he doesn't feel the task force will be able to change
the problems.
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 15, 2001
Page 9
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Commissioner English questioned if a security camera would help.
Commissioner Blackstad stated that the way he views it there will have to be an attendant
on duty where a user card is required and it's pulled if one is found violating the rules.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that he would like to see the task force come up with
some ideas on how to solve the problems.
Commissioner Anderson mentioned that many times it's just one or two kids that are
causing the problems. He suggested advertising in the newsletter that the task force is
looking for more volunteers.
Acting Chairman Lindahl suggested the skate park be put on the agenda for the next
meeting as a discussion item, therefore the Commission can create a plan and work with
the task force on how to solve the problem.
Commissioner Anderson stated that it really wouldn't need to be on the agenda for the
next meeting, but instead recommended advertising for more task force members.
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Acting Chairman Lindahl suggested the Commission create an outline of what's expected
prior to the task force meeting after the first of the year.
Mr. Haas questioned if the Commission wants it indicated in the newsletter that the park
will remain closed in 2002 until a plan is in place to solve the problems. The
Commission agreed to state in the newsletter that the park will remain closed until the
issues are addressed.
Park Capital Improvement Budget Group Task Force - Commissioner English stated that
there has been no meeting.
Ice Arena Task Force - Commissioner Blackstad stated that there hasn't been another
meeting since the last park meeting. He mentioned that they are still looking at a site
design; furthermore the county isn't favorable of the site along Hanson Blvd.
Commissioner Holthus stated that the next meeting will be held on December 3rd.
Crooked Lake Elementary School Hockey Rink Update - Commissioner Holthus
explained that the principal would like the City to talk with Mr. Durand first to make sure
there is some type of agreement set up for a hockey rink. She stated that the goal is to get
funds from the district first, however it's unlikely that this will happen.
ADDED ITEM - 5 YEAR CIP PLAN
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Commissioner English presented the Commission with the results ofthe ranking of parks
based on a list of objectives created by the Commission at the recent work session. He
explained how each park received a numerical score and based on that score they ranked
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November J 5, 200 J
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from highest to lowest. He explained that based on the amount of funds available to the
Commission (approximately $540,000) the top ten parks, excluding the WDE site, would
be able to be completed.
Motion by English, seconded by DeLaForest, to recommend to the City Council that
parks 1-10 on the handout provided by Commissioner English, excluding park #8 (WDE
Site) as the 2002 CIP Plan.
Further Discussion
Commissioner Holthus stated that the Commission didn't refer back to the goals that
were set in the beginning ofthe work session. She stated that one goal was consistency or
to consider the original CIP Plan, which the Commission completely ignored.
Commissioner English stated that the reason it was ignored was because there was no
objective tied to that goal.
Commissioner Grabowski stated that this time the Commission was more educated and
gave logic to the order.
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Commissioner English stated that the primary change was placing an emphasis on the
association needs. He stated that the Hawkridge project lost out a lot, however he felt the
process should be supported since it was done fairly.
Commissioner Holthus stated that the Commission is looking at each park as an all or
nothing project. She suggested the Commission consider taking some things away from
certain parks to allow the Commission to do more at other parks.
Acting Chairman Lindahl stated that the based on past experience it's better to go into a
park and start it and finish it all at once. Commissioner Holthus stated that she just wants
to make the most people happy.
Acting Chairman Lindahl mentioned that having a category marked as "other" with
$20,000 will allow the Commission to address the needs of people who come in with
special requests.
Commissioner Holthus mentioned that she is seeing a lot of inconsistencies with the
Commissions priorities.
Commissioner Anderson stated that the objectives will change each year. He mentioned
that the parks that were selected are a good start and were picked fairly.
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Commissioner Blackstad stated that he liked the process the Commission went through at
the work session. He suggested that next year the Commission look at all the parks and
whether or not they are ADA accessible.
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 15, 2001
Page 11
Commissioner Grabowski stated that next year the parks can be re-evaluated, however
it's important to live by the outcome whether one totally agrees or not.
Commissioner Blackstad mentioned that the attorney for Lino Lakes stated that the park
dedication fees need to be used for a park in that development or a regional park that the
development would benefit from.
Commissioner Anderson stated that the Commission rated the park as being regional ifit
provided various youth amenities.
Commissioner English stated that he feels a regional park is a park larger than a tot lot,
but could be smaller than Sunshine Park.
Commissioner Holthus mentioned that a couple years ago the Commission received a
specific definition of what a regional park actually is. Mr. Haas stated that the definition
Is stated in the park chapter of the Comprehensive Plan.
Acting Chairman Lindahl stated that what is in the Comprehensive Plan is just a guide.
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Commissioner English agreed that next year the Commission should evaluate all the
parks.
Commissioner Anderson suggested adding an "other" category for $20,000 to cover
unforeseen expenses.
Mr. Haas questioned what parks he should list for 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006.
Commissioner English suggested removing the WDE Site from the list and after that just
follow in line with the parks dividing them up equally over the next four years.
Commissioner English and Commissioner DeLaForest agreed to the amendment.
Motion carried on a 6-ayes, I-nay (Holthus), O-absent vote.
Commissioner Holthus explained that she voted against the proposal since the
Commission didn't take into consideration the previous CIP Plan and the goals that were
set at the beginning of the work session.
Mr. Haas questioned ifthe Commission is in agreement with the 5 Year CIP Plan for
Trails. He suggested the Commission approve it ifthere are no changes.
Motion by English, seconded by Grabowski, to recommend to the City Council that the 5
(~ Year Trail CIP Plan remain the same. Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
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Regular Andover Park & Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 15. 2001
Page 12
CHAIR'S REPORT
There was no chair's report.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Blackstad, seconded by Anderson, to adjourn the meeting at 9: 15 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sara Beck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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