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HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK January 31, 2006 o o o ~~ WLtl+W 3 - 't -<:lb ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP- JANUARY 31,2006 MINUTES The Workshop of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache, January 31, 2006, 6:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Councilmember absent: Also present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude None City Administrator Jim Dickinson Community Development Director Will Neumeister City Engineer Dave Berkowitz City Planner Courtney Bednarz Others DISCUSS RURAL RESERVE A City Council goal for 2005-06 is master planning the Rural Reserve area. General recommendations need to be made by the Council to move ahead with further master planning of the Rural Reserve. Mr. Neumeister reviewed Andover and Anoka County home sales along with background information and results of the property owners meeting. Roadway Alignments Councilmember Orttel wondered if there was a problem with running a road through or close to Mr. Eveland's property. Mr. Dickinson stated Mr. Eveland does not want to develop his property at this time because he is still farming. Councilmember Jacobson wondered if there was any difference in the length of the road design in the plans. Mr. Neumeister stated there is not much of a difference. Councilmember Trude thought each of the plans would relieve South Coon Creek Drive. Mr. Neumeister asked if the Council has a preferred roadway layout for the Rural Reserve. Lake Location & Size Mr. Neumeister showed where the lake will be located and indicated there will be four parks. One park will be attached to the lake so the residents of Andover have access to it. Mr. Neumeister wondered if the Council would like to have a park by the City Hall complex for o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes - January 31, 2006 Page 2 ballfields or should they incorporate it into the Rural Reserve. Mr. Neumeister showed a graph of the Rural Reserve and what amounts of acreage would be allocated for each type of use. He noted there would be 40 acres for park, 20 acres commercial, 40 acres school/medium density residential, 100 acres lake, 200 acres total for "other". Mr. Neumeister stated the Rural Reserve will have 860 buildable acres; subtracting 200 acres for "other" would give them 660 acres net buildable land. They are taking into account a play area in the park. Councilmember Knight wondered if all the lakes will be connected. Mr. Neumeister indicated they would. o Councilmember Knight thought they should provide some access for people to get to for kayaking, canoeing, etc. so they should have a parking area. Mr. Neumeister stated they have not put in parking areas but there could be points of access throughout the area. Mr. Dickinson stated if you try to maintain multiple accesses to a lake, maintenance becomes high and problems arise. Councilmember Knight did not think they would want parking along the road for lake access. Councilmember Jacobson wondered if lakes are considered public property. Mr. John Jenkels, Emmerich Development stated the surface of the water will be a public amenity and will be open to the public. Mr. Jenkels explained how the association works in their Blaine development, The Lakes. Councilmember Orttel wondered how they can control the public water activities. Mr. Jenkels stated the difference is that this was once owned by a private owner and made through the development unlike a natural lake. Councilmember Jacobson stated if it is a public lake, his understanding is it cannot be controlled through an association. Councilmember Trude thought they should have the City Attorney research this with a property law specialist. Councilmember Orttel thought they could regulate speeds on the lakes. Councilmember Jacobson indicated the lakes should be connected so people could go from one end to the other and have the roadways become overpasses. Councilmember Trude stated she would like the concept of having parks where they offer an amenity o and she would like to see pathways and open areas for people to enjoy the water. Mr. Dickinson stated the streets at this time need to be flexible to accommodate the lakes but need to keep the connections they have. o o o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes -January 31,2006 Page 3 Councilmember Trude stated another goal for the roadways is to try to make them parkways. Density Mr. Dickinson indicated right now in Andover they see development at 2.4 net densities per acre, which would be 1,584 housing units. The Met Council will want net density to be 3.0. Councilmember Orttel wondered if they have a legal attachment to the Met Council for 3.0 net densities per acre. Mr. Neumeister showed how they could average out the density between low, medium and high to meet the 3.0 net densities. Councilmember Trude stated she would like to see more homes from the custom builders with custom grading. She would like to see a high percentage of single family. Mr. Dickinson indicated that if they do have more single-family custom homes, they will have to raise the density in the medium or higher density to meet the 3.0. Councilmember Jacobson indicated they will need to have the parks large enough to accommodate parking so people do not park on the street. Councilmember Trude thought tot lots should go in the parks by the townhomes. Councilmember Trude thought they should get some feedback from the residents around the large proposed park to see if they would want it or not. Mayor Gamache likes the idea of not having ballparks in this area. He thought they should be elsewhere in the City. Councilmembers Knight and Jacobson concurred. Councilmember Trude stated she would like to see an area with picnic shelters. Mr. Neumeister indicated a larger facility will go down by the floodplain where they will reserve upland for that. Councilmember Knight wondered if the School District has gotten involved in this at all. Mr. Neumeister stated they have only received a letter from them. Councilmember Orttel thought if they are going to add 2,000 homes with 1.6 children per household, they will probably need more than one school because it would be an impact on the school system in Andover. Councilmember Knight stated the School District needs to get involved in the planning if they want a school in the Rural Reserve. Councilmember Orttel thought the School District needs to option out the land themselves. He noted the City could option the land out but should not hold the land for the School District. The Council indicated they want 3.0 densities in the Rural Reserve or less. Councilmember Trude stated they need to go with what they agreed with the Met Council on. o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes - January 31, 2006 Page 4 Mr. Neumeister wondered if the Council would be willing to blend the north area with the south area to make it equal 3.0 net densities. He thought the north would be developed first and would probably need to be 3.5 net density and the south density would probably be 2.5 net density developed later. Councilmember Jacobson stated the overall density needs to be at 3.0 as it comes to the Council because otherwise as developed, both areas will be at 3.5 net densities. Councilmember Trude did not think they could figure the exact density if they have not done the zoning. She thought the decision on where they zone the multi-family will determine the density. Mr. Jenkels stated the concept is only that and all the details will come. Some will be dictated by the research they are doing. Mr. Quigley stated staffhas been really helpful in the meetings they have had with them. DISCUSS OPEN SPACE ISSUES o Mr. Bednarz stated open space preservation efforts have evolved over time from simply protecting natural landscapes and farmland to include acquisition and development of parks, trails, buildings and recreation facilities. Mr. Bednarz reviewed the information with the Council. Mr. Bednarz stated the park and open space plan gives the City the opportunity to look at what resources they have left and evaluate the park systems. Councilmember Jacobson wondered if they are going to hire someone to inventory the park areas. Mr. Bednarz thought they had a good inventory system in the City and he did not think they need to hire an outside source for this. Councilmember Jacobson stated he wants to know where the open space is in the City. Councilmember Trude thought it would make sense to set up a plan to purchase an easement from people as they sell their homes in order to put trails throughout the City. Councilmember Orttel wondered if they should give a credit to developers for giving them land for open space. Councilmember Jacobson thought if it is a landlocked piece of land, they need to be careful. o Councilmember Orttel thought the issue is the funding for this. He thought when they have to go out for a referendum they need to be pretty specific. Mr. Dickinson stated that is correct. Mayor Gamache stated part of the reason he wanted to look at this is because they are in the middle o o o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes -January 31,2006 Page 5 of their MUSA and they have open spaces throughout the City and maybe they should look at keeping them as open spaces. Councilmember Knight stated if they raise the visibility they may have people donating some land for open space and preservation. He stated they may want to identify the park dedications twenty- five years ago that are now swamps. Mayor Gamache explained there are other ways to raise money besides bonds. There are land donations, conservancy easements and other sources. Councilmember Orttel stated they could also work with the DNR on this. The Council asked for more information and to discuss this further at a future meeting. REVIEW 2006 OVERLAY PROJECT/06-2 The City Council is asked to discuss public concern and design items for Project 06-2, 2006 Overlays. Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the staff report with the City Council. Councilmember Orttel wondered why one area in a development would be worn more than others. Mr. Berkowitz indicated it could be traffic, different layers of asphalt that have been laid in different areas. Filling in potholes in an area lowers the integrity of the road and is a temporary fix and needs to be corrected. Mr. Berkowitz stated alligator cracking indicates the subgrade has failed in a road and needs to be fixed which is what has happened in this project. Councilmember Orttel wondered when the most cost effective time is to repair a road. Mr. Berkowitz stated the Overall Condition Index (OCI) is between fifty and sixty. Councilmember Knight wondered if it is repaired at fifty, how many years the road is good for. Mr. Berkowitz indicated they should last twenty-five to thirty years and ADT would make a difference too. He noted the City seal coats the roads on a regular basis. Mr. Berkowitz indicated in Lund's development, the road's bituminous is betweenll/2 and 2 inches thick. Mr. Berkowitz wondered if the City is willing to assess everyone across the board in the development for the improvement. Councilmember Trude stated if they would do this, they would need to do it through a 429 bond. Councilmember Trude thought there may be a benefit to this because it would increase their road fund and make the program go further. o o o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes -January 31,2006 Page 6 Mr. Berkowitz stated if a development is created with concrete curb, it is going to be lower in cost because the boulevard and driveways will not be disturbed and any future repairs will be cheaper because of the concrete curb. Mr. Berkowitz indicated if the Council wants to go with something like this, they should implement a policy. Councilmember Orttel wondered if they could hold the projects back until 2007 in order to get more information and decide which route they should take. Mr. Berkowitz indicated Lund's Addition could wait for a couple of years but the Stenquist Addition needs to be done fairly quickly. Councilmember Jacobson thought they should have a public hearing for the Stenquist Addition and hold off on the Lund's Addition and then discuss this further at a City Council meeting. Councilmember Knight wondered what the public comment was regarding this because what he understood is the residents do not think the roads are that bad. Councilmember Jacobson thought they should push these projects out a year and devise a policy regarding this in a City Council meeting so they can get public input. Councilmember Trude wondered with the oil cost going up how the cost of the project would be affected. Mr. Berkowitz indicated every year the costs will go up; this past year concrete went up. Mr. Dale Howard wondered why everyone in the City cannot put a set amount away towards the road improvements. Mr. Dickinson stated roughly ten percent of the levy goes toward the road improvement plan already. Mr. Berkowitz indicated they changed the oil and bituminous content they use in their roads to make them last longer. The Council thought they should take the year and work through a policy. A resident wondered how she would benefit by paying an assessment and also taking in everyone else's water into her ditches. She stated they pay a fee yearly to fix the road. Mr. Berkowitz stated if something is in their program for reconstruct, they do not seal coat it. Mr. Jim Olson stated they are not against reconstructing the street, it is the curb issue. He stated the seven points justifying the concrete curbs need to be discussed. He did not think they should rule out bituminous curb in certain areas where there is low traffic on the roads. Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the seven benefits of justifying concrete curbs over bituminous. o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes - January 31, 2006 Page 7 Council consensus was to delay the projects for at least a year to review the information and develop a policy regarding street reconstruction and assessments. Councilmember Orttel stated all of the benefits in having concrete over bituminous still apply no matter what the size of the lot is. UPDATE ON TULIP STREET NW IMPROVEMENTSI05-11 The preparation of the feasibility report for Project 05-11, Tulip Street NW between 161 st Avenue NW and Valley Drive NW is currently being prepared. o The feasibility report for Tulip Street is near completion. Soil borings have been completed, which reveal the need for soil corrections in a few areas along the roadway. The curves on this segment of Tulip Street will be adjusted to improve safety along this route. Storm water drainage issues need to be identified and discussed with adjacent property owners to provide for proper storm water drainage. To accommodate the storm water requirements and due to the floodplain constraints, a large expense to the project will be to build up the roadway at the low point to meet the storm water requirements. A right-of-way plat will also be required through the Dehn property to provide for the needed ROW to build the road. The project was estimated at $1.1 million to $1.3 million late last fall, but due to the additional investigation and need for fill and soil correction the project cost is estimated at $1.7 to $1.9 million. Assessments for this project are estimated from $3,000 per unit for smaller lots to $4,800 for lots that are 2.5 acres or have the potential to split into 2.5 acre lots. Councilmember Jacobson indicated he will not participate in the discussion because of possible conflict of issue. The Council recessed at 8:35 p.m. The Council reconvened at 8:40 p.m. Mr. Berkowitz reviewed the Tulip Street improvements with the Council. o Councilmember Trude wondered how many kids are projected to be at the school. Mr. Jacobson indicated they will split the school up at first and bring the 7th graders through the 12th graders, around 800 children, and then eventually bring in the rest, which will be around 1,200. Mr. Jones stated he called Mr. Chris Vrchota regarding the permanent cul-de-sac. He noted the residents are not going to do the cul-de-sac so he thought it should be left in case a road would need o o o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes - January 31, 2006 Page 8 to be put in. He recommended having the school put in a private road from I 62nd to accommodate parking at their fields. Mr. Berkowitz indicated the road would be thirty-three feet back to back. He also noted this road is a State Aid road and there will be no parking on the road. Councilmember Orttel indicated his concern is the cost for the reconstruction of the road. Mrs. Jones wondered if it was going to be feasible to curb farmland. Councilmember Trude stated there will be substantial City contribution for the road project. Councilmember Knight indicated this is a State Aid road and will get funding. Councilmember Knight wondered if it is cheaper to float a road than to fill in a road to correct it. Mr. Berkowitz stated he would recommend floating any part of the road that they can. Mr. Berkowitz indicated the assessments per lot will be approximately $4,800. After the project is finished they will do a traffic study on the road. Mrs. Jones wondered if they could put in a cul-de-sac after the seventh house going north and bring the road through another cul-de-sac then they would not have to straighten the road or improve the road. Mayor Gamache stated if they did that, they would lose the State Aid designation and they would lose funds. SMITH/ANDERSON/CARLSON SKETCH PLAN Mr. Dickinson reviewed the staff report with the Council. Ms. T em Holden, Representative for Bruce Carlson, indicated she has worked with the resident for the past year and tried to accommodate the resident for what she wanted. As of the last letter in December the resident agreed to everything but then had thirty-two additional changes. They are at a point where they have done what they can and they are not asking her to move. She stated the issue with the road is thaton either side of her property is development and one of the concerns is access for emergency vehicles. Ms. Holden stated they are looking for an easement to bring utilities through her property. Councilmember Knight stated an easement is considered a type of eminent domain of property. Ms. Holden stated Mr. Carlson has met everyone of the residents' demands including monetary. Councilmember Orttel wondered if City staff could sit down with the resident regarding this issue. Councilmember Jacobson noted they have never used eminent domain for anything like this except for the junk yards and he did not want to start using this unless it is an extreme last resort. He also thought having someone from the City talk to the resident is also a negative because it would put the c o o Regular Andover City Council Meeting Minutes -January 31,2006 Page 9 City behind the developer. Councilmember Trude thought having the City Administrator meet with the resident would help to get her to understand the situation. Councilmember Orttel indicated he does not believe in eminent domain and the City Administrator's job is a part of this. Councilmember Knight stated he could accept having Mr. Dickinson sit down with the resident ifhe did nothing more than facilitate. The majority of the Council indicated they would like to have Mr. Dickinson and Mr. Neumeister sit down with the resident to discuss the issues related to this item. OTHER BUSINESS There was none. Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 9:50 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary