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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP September 21, 2006 o o o 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US Special Joint City Council & Park & Recr:eation Commission Meeting September 21, 2006 7:00 P.M. 1. Call to Order 2. Park System Condition Assessment/Community Survey Results 3. Update of Revised Park Dedication Study/Comp Plan for Parks 4. Discuss Skate Park Facility 5. Provide Update Regarding Guidelines for Field Usage by Youth Athletic Associations 6. Discuss Proposed 2007-2011 Park CIP 7. Other Business 8. Adjournment o o o c....~r:;t:.- CeLi--' lA.-:'1--t +-i-ul i fJ .- n -Cia JOINT CITY COUNCIL AND PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING - SEPTEMBER 21, 2006 MINUTES The Special Joint City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache on September 21,2006, 7:07 p.m., at Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers Present: Mayor Mike Gamache, Julie Trude, Don Jacobson, and Mike Knight Commissioners Present: Chair Dan Masloski, Wendy Albee, Jeremy Boyer, Dave Blackstad, Jim Lindahl, Bill Hupp, and Ernest Bedor Commissioners Absent: Ken Orttel Also Present: Parks Coordinator, Todd Haas and Jim Dickinson City Administrator PARK SYSTEM CONDITION ASSESSMENT/COMMUNITY SURVEY RESULTS City Administrator Dickinson stated the survey results are generally favorable. There was the cross-tab information available at City Hall. He summarized the Open Space Referendum philosophy. Overall, the City is meeting the needs of the families and sport associations. Mayor Gainache inquired about the characteristics of Andover as described on page 3, #12. Councilmember Trude not~d that when there is a 30% negative rating it should be considered significant. Mayor Garnache noted that there is a need for new ball fields and the rural reserve would need more parks. Councilmember Knight responded that they are typical for a growing city, however as the City matures, they need to ensure there are not too many for a more mature population. Councilmember Trude indicated that parks with playgrounds address the needs of children until second grade, and then they need ball fields. She and Mr. Haas addressed the population in 5 years and found that there would be about 1,500 kids added. Parks often do not have a field to kick a ball around. The City has several tot-lot parks, but she believes that it should move to multi-use parks. Councilmember Jacobson inquired about how the Park Commission viewed the needs. Chair Masloski answered that there is a considerable amount of money allocated to ball fields. Small parks create a neighborhood feel. He expressed concern that if those parks were multi-use it would bring more traffic into the neighborhoods. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 2 Councilmember Trude stated that in many parks the kids could not play ball or Frisbee. Commissioner Hupp responded that there are bigger multi-use parks in the community. Chair Masloski noted that the Commission is low on funds, and is limited in its ability to purchase property. Commissioner Lindahl added that the Commission often hears complaints of needing neighborhood parks. Councilmember Trude stated she does not disagree. Commissioner Blackstad indicated it is a maintenance nightmare if there is a park in each neighborhood. Councilmember Knight stated there are two points to keep in mind. First, there is an increasing demand for fall baseball. Second, there is a need to convert outfields for soccer and Lacrosse. He agreed there is difficulty maintaining the quality of fields. Commissioner Hupp mentioned there are thousands of kids participating in soccer. Council member Jacobson inquired if Andover Station North could be used for soccer. Mayor Garnache noted it is a large field. o Commissioner Blackstad indicated that they are still attempting to address various needs such as 4 fields for baseball, a soccer complex, and small baseball fields. There is a concern over the size of the fields available in the City. Councilmember Trude inquired about the amount to purchase the houses west of the water treatment plant for a future park. Blackstad responded that two complexes were requested and they received only one. Mayor Gamache noted that the growth in the school system has leveled off. A baseball representative stated that they are turning down kids. Councilmember Jacobson indicated that with the issues of the high cost of land, and financial issues with the park he advocated changing uses in the parks. Commissioner Blackstad answered that they are trying to put in Yz basketball courts in the parks. Chair Masloski questioned the validity of an aging population in Andover, because 57% of the households have children. He mentioned it would be interesting to see how other cities did in satisfaction. o Councilmember Trude stated in the community she has heard scheduling issues, and expressed a need for a plan. Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes-September 21,2006 o Page 3 Parks Coordinator Haas mentioned the cost for an acre of land in the urban area is about $140,000.00. Commissioner Blackstad stated they would receive a credit. Councilmember Trude wanted to look for a location for a complex possibly in a 200 unit development. She admitted there are maintenance issues involved. Chair Masloski indicated it would have to be in the Capital Improvement Plan, unless it was in the Rural Reserve. Councilmember Trude suggested putting it in the Capital Improvement Plan. Mayor Gamache inquired about the scheduling issue. Parks Coordinator Haas answered that all of the parks are booked up. Mayor Gamache asked if irrigation could be added. Parks Coordinator Haas responded that they could add irrigation. Commissioner Albee noted that North Metro Soccer indicated they are abandoning Fox Meadows, because it would cost $125,000.00 to irrigate a rural park. Commissioner Lindahl added that access to water is also necessary for fire safety. o Commissioner Blackstad questioned in addition to installation of an irrigation system, how much it would cost the City for the water use to irrigate. Chair Masloski mentioned that irrigating fields would not help the situation for baseball. Parks Coordinator Haas noted that there is land at Timber Rivers, Timber Trails, and Hawk Ridge that could be irrigated, but soccer families want one location. Commissioner Lindahl added that there would be a parking issue. Mayor Gamache inquired which of the outlying parks would be irrigated. He gave the example of the Hopkins Complex, and then it would not be necessary to have many systems. Councilmember Knight questioned if an irrigation system similar to one used in agriculture could be used, because only a regular well is necessary. Commissioner Blackstad noted that Timber Trails Park has a well. In addition, the city staffhas been notified recently that Fox Meadows Park is not going to be used by North Metro Soccer Association anymore due to the poor condition of the field. Council member Trude inquired if it would improve capacity or merely playability. o Councilmember Jacobson recommended that the Park Commission direct staff to develop an existing parks plan. He stated that Andover Station North ball field facility is bonded for. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 4 Commissioner Lindahl commented that a fire system would not be able to work off of the farm irrigation. He expressed interest in the specifications for water usage. Councilmember Trude inquired about the Commission's position on user's fees. Commissioner Blackstad answered that it is triple taxation for residents. A representative of the baseball association mentioned that Strootman Park is need of maintenance. Commissioner Blackstad responded that the park needs to be rearranged and reconstructed. Mayor Gamache indicated he realizes that on the weekends the fields are empty. Commissioner Blackstad stated that softball uses fields on the weekends, and baseball is going to Friday and Sunday night games. Commissioner Bedor mentioned the fields are empty in the afternoons, and also noted that the tennis courts are unused. Mayor Gamache recommended focusing on redesigning and irrigating existing facilities, and possible buying additional land to build new facilities. UPDATE OF REVISED PARK DEDICATION STUDY/COMP PLAN FOR PARKS o City Administrator Dickinson addressed Open Space Preservation. There have been favorable to very favorable responses from residents. There will be up to $2 million in bonds sold for Open Space. Chair Masloski indicated that the land accumulated could be adjacent to unbuildable land. Councilmember Knight inquired if there would be any trails or fields in the Open Space areas. Commissioner Lindahl noted that ball fields and picnic shelters could be clustered. Councilmember Knight stated that trails could be installed without pavement. Councilmember Julie Trude indicated there is no money for trails in the bond. DISCUSS SKATE PARK FACILITY Mayor Gamache stated the equipment is weakening. Chair Masloski responded he had not heard any complaints. Parks Coordinator Haas indicated that Constance Free Church inquired of him if they could close it down if problems arose. He had stated they could close it down. City Administrator Dickinson noted that last year there had been problems with vandalism and litter. o o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 5 Parks Coordinator Haas stated they took it down after Labor Day. The church has been cooperative for three years. Mayor Garnache mentioned that Grace Lutheran has removed their skate park. Parks Coordinator Haas noted that staff suggested the area adjacent to the outfield fence in the very northwest comer of Sunshine Park near the intersection of Crosstown Boulevard and Nightingale Street could be a permanent site if it was paved. Council member Knight added trui.t he would hate to have kids on the highway. Parks Coordinator Haas responded there is a trail between where the location of the equipment would be and Nightingale Street. In terms of the equipment, the moving of the equipment over the past few years has caused the equipment to be weakened and that is why a permanent location is being recommended. A suggestion is to consider the YMCA to supervise and run the facility similar to what is going on in suburbs in the south metro area. Commissioner Bedor noted it was built in a joint effort of three cities. Parks Coordinator Haas added the skate park was a separate area from the YMCA, the cities built it but the YMCA ran it. Commissioner Blackstad suggested Field 3 as another possible site. o The Council and Commission briefly discussed parking issues. Commissioner Blackstad indicated that a Tier 1 level skate park did not affect insurance rates, but the other higher tier skate parks (such as a Tier 2) will require fencing around the facility and supervision. Council member Knight recommended the Commission look at the two locations. Chair Masloski noted his impression is new equipment is really needed. Council member Trude suggested the Sunshine Park site, and inquired if it was close to any backyards. Parks Coordinator Haas answered there is already good separation in the south due to the existing parking lot on the west side of Sunshine Park. Commissioner Boyer stated that the existing crosswalk at l49th Avenue is still a concern. PROVIDE UPDATE REGARDING GUIDELINES FOR FIELD USAGE BY ATHLETIC ASSOCIATIONS o Chair Masloski reviewed the background of the issue. There had been several meetings with the associations concerning allocating fields. The Commission was comfortable with the document. At present, associations that use the fields also have non-residents. He was attempting to strengthen the associations so residents would know where to go for signing up in each sport. There are some sports where the sanctioning body stated o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 6 that the boundaries are the schools attended. Mayor Gamache responded that hockey is the only one. Commissioner Blackstad also indicated that is also true for fast pitch softball. He stated that it had been reworded to state that unless the governing body noted otherwise. Councilmember Trude expressed concern that 50lC3 was a complex tax issue, and indicated that it could be incorporated, but not have the classification. She mentioned there could be an alternative. She inquired about Lacrosse. The representative of Lacrosse responded that they had a temporary classification for two years, before receiving the 50lC3. Commissioner Blackstad stated that they are trying to prevent teams that have separated from their associations to start new associations. Councilmember Trude inquired if they are open to all residents. She expressed concern that there might be discrimination issues if they do not serve handicapped children, boys and girls in each sport. o Chair Masloski stated the grievance proceeding should be within the association. Commissioner Hupp clarified that he wants to go by numbers, because he does not want to do a percentage. Chair Masloski noted that the associations had worked well together for field allocation, but that could change in the future, so the Commission wanted to have a means of prioritizing such as an association recognized by the Park and Recreation Commission, the numbers of residents participating, and the percentages of residents in the association. He reiterated that he wants to inhibit break-off groups. Commissioner Blackstad stated that Andover is in a unique situation because there are four high schools serving the residents of Andover. Commissioner Hupp added the more neutral the Park and Recreation Commission could be on the issue the better. He also mentioned the church group's situation. Councilmember Knight expressed concern that they do not want to prioritize because of legal concerns. Councilmember Jacobson indicated there are two items to discuss, the fields and the shifting of time to the weekends. o Chair Masloski indicated he is on the other side as a staff member in Champlin. There is a process whereby each city is moving toward creating a policy that addresses these issues. For instance, what method would be used to decide which association would have the weekend hours. Commissioner Hupp responded that he believes it should be based on the number of residents. More residents would sign up and staff would verify the numbers. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 7 Chair Masloski asked for a response from the baseball representatives about weekends. The representative responded that a lot of parents would not sign their kids up to play. Chair Masloski stated that the associations should be protected now. Councilmember Trude indicated that it appears to be controlling, and did not think all the regulation is necessary. Adjacent cities would have different peak times. She also had concerns about staff time needed to verify numbers. Councilmember Jacobson suggested if time shifting is ineffective, staff could pull narnes out of a hat, or have a moratorium. Commissioner Boyer stated he is in favor of supporting the larger organizations to help the City maintain residential access. Commissioner Lindahl agreed with Boyer stating that a structure is needed to protect residential use. Commissioner Blackstad indicated that associations tend to slide into differing philosophies. o Mayor Gamache expressed concerns about questioning the legitimacy of a group. He agreed with Trude that it is too much regulation. Commissioner Albee stated that the 501 C3 designation would prevent new groups from starting. Commissioner Blallkstad added there is a temporary status concern as well. Commissioner Hupp inquired about access for church groups. Councilmember Knight inquired about the reason for the split in baseball. Mr. Dietz of baseball responded it is a personality issue. Mayor Gamache noted that in some cities the association owns the fields. Mr. Dietz stated that requiring the nonprofit status would filter out the break off groups. A representative of Lacrosse expressed concern about 2.1.1, because they do not have a high percentage, but they have 99% of the residents of Andover playing with their organization. Commissioner Lindahl assured him that it had been adjusted since the last meeting. The representative of Lacrosse asked for clarification if the percentage of residents were within the association, or the percentage of residents playing the sport. Chair Masloski indicated that the associations would have to agree to it. o Parks Coordinator Haas stated that the associations could again comment on the guidelines on October 5, 2006. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes-September 21,2006 Page 8 Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern about the legal issues such as churches. Councilmember Knight answered that legal counsel could address the final document submission. Mayor Gamache stated that many cities have similar documents. Councilmember Jacobson mentioned that simpler is better. Councilmember Knight recommended excluding 2.1.6 and/or 2.1.7. Commissioner Hupp inquired if they could review 2.1.8. Mayor Gamache noted that if an association is a 501 C3 and the numbers are legitimate, it is a good starting point. Commissioner Lindahl indicated that those not meeting the criteria would not be excluded if fields were available; it would be used for prioritization. Section 2.1.7 is an opportunity to be present to observe. He often does it as a staff person. Mayor Gamache requested the originals from the cities, and inquired if they have city prograrns. o Councilmember Trude recommended sending the document to the City Attorney. Mayor Gamache excused himself at 8:47 p.m. Mr. Dietz inquired about the reason hockey was excluded. Commissioner Blackstad answered that residents playing hockey are covered by other schools. Councilmember Jacobson began to officiate the meeting. DISCUSS PROPOSED 2007-2011 PARK CIP Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern about lighting in 2007. Chair Masloski thought it was a long term plan. Councilmember Jacobson noted that the $300,000.00 for lights at the Andover Station North ball field facility could be used for irrigation at other parks within the city. Council member Trude asked if$385,000.00 is available. City Administrator Dickinson answered that legally the money has to be spent on Andover Station North. o Chair Masloski stated that the lighting at Andover Station North ball field facility was scheduled at one time for 2006, but was taken out. Commissioner Blackstad added he did not believe they could spend it elsewhere. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 9 Commissioner Albee indicated that if there were lights installed, two games could be scheduled on the same evening. City Administrator Dickinson noted it would be possible if Council wants to change a past action. Councilmember Trude asked for input from baseball, and how it fit their needs. Mr. Dietz responded that they donated the money for the building, and needed the building for bathrooms and concessions for tournaments. It was not possible to have tournaments where 300-400 people would congregate without bathrooms or snacks. Councilmember Trude stated the Council has not yet approved the CIP. Commissioner Blackstad indicated that lighting would have a benefit for soccer and lacrosse, and suggested the possibility that they could help with funding. Mr. Dietz noted hockey now has charitable garnbling, but now City code requires fire suppression on the building, which will be an additional cost that they were not anticipating. o Council member Jacobson recommended obtaining an estimate of the costs. He noted the Council could be open to change the position not to move money around. A baseball representative questioned the need for $60,000.00 for playground equipment, and mentioned the fields were for kids 14 and up. Mr. Dickinson responded that $170,000.00 for the project is coming from the housing development as park dedication. Mr. Dietz inquired about naming rights for the complex. City Administrator Dickinson answered that it is possible if they did not call it a park. Councilmember Jacobson stated that if funding could come from naming rights, Council would address it. Mr. Dietz indicated that he had been speaking with contractors. Councilmember Jacobson noted that the City would own the building so they should keep in touch with the City Administrator. Mr. Dietz inquired about how the concessions would be run. Councilmember Jacobson responded that the City would take bids. Mr. Dietz stated that they would like to control the concessions. Councilmember Jacobson answered that they would have to treat them equally. o City Administrator Dickinson added that the process needs to be fair and open. Chair Masloski indicated that Council could choose to lease it. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 10 Council member Jacobson stated that is his opinion, but the discussion would be required at an open City Council meeting. Mr. Dietz inquired about beginning the process toward a change in the charitable gambling. Councilmember Jacobson responded that a petition would show public support. He recommended City Administrator Dickinson speak with legal counsel to address limiting to one site for gambling. He inquired if there were any changes to the boat landing. Parks Coordinator Haas responded that he was assured by the DNR that money would be available in 2007 or 2008, so the money has to be available in the CIP. Council member Jacobson inquired about Strootman Park. Parks Coordinator Haas answered that he was hoping for help to regrade the park from Public Works. The park would be redesigned for the younger aged kids for baseball or softball. Council member Jacobson inquired about the use of the miscellaneous category in the CIP. Parks Coordinator Haas responded that it is their account. He directed Chair Masloski to address underused areas for 2008 and 2009. o Commissioner Blackstad indicated that irrigation would improve usage. Council member Trude noted she would like to see additional multi-use parks within the City. Discussion took place between the Council and Commission regarding the proposed Hickory Meadows development and the proposed location of the park. Parks Coordinator Haas stated that the Commission had recommended a lot on the west side of the development and the remainder would come from the property to the west when that parcel develops. There would only be a need for a couple lots from the other developer to the west to meet the needs of the park. Council member Jacobson stated the developer would not receive credit for the southeast portion along Coon Creek if land were to be dedicated as some of the property is in the flood zone. Parks Coordinator Haas indicated they are obtaining a combination of park and cash for the park dedication. Commissioner Lindahl noted that this is an example where a park is necessary. Councilmember Jacobson admitted that he understood the need for land and cash in this instance, and inquired if a decision was needed by Tuesday night. City Administrator Dickinson confirmed that a decision is needed by Tuesday night. o Councilmember Knight expressed concern about kids crossing dangerous roads. An interested property owner who lives in the area indicated that the area was heavily wooded. He suggested they could take the land and leave it wooded until the demographics of the neighborhood are known, then decide how to develop it. o Special Joint Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - September 21, 2006 Page 11 Commissioner Blackstad stated that the area is going to be clear-cut during development, however he likes the location of the lot. Commissioner Albee added that they should take the two lots to ensure there is enough. Councilmember Trude indicated the developer suggested taking the lot to the south. Commissioner Blackstad responded that there is no access to the lot in the south. After some discussion, the Park Commission did not want to change their previous motion in regard to the location of the park in the Hickory Meadows development. Commissioner Hupp questioned if it is going to be open space. Councilmember Knight inquired about White Pines Park. Parks Coordinator Haas answered that in the future, a trail would go along Crane Street in the North to Hanson Boulevard. He wants a trail installed before the development. OTHER BUSINESS o City Administrator Dickinson stated he wants to address one item. Wireless internet and cell towers could be a potential revenue source. Parks are acceptable sites for monopoles about 130 feet, and two could yield about $42,000.00 per year. He admitted that they are not attractive, but cell service is important. He receives calls daily about this topic. Chair Masloski noted that landscaping could be done. City Administrator Dickinson indicated that if one could get beyond aesthetics, the City could get a lease and sell rights. Councilmember Knight inquired if the WDE site (the old landfill site) is appropriate. City Administrator Dickinson stated there could be problems with interference. Cell companies have a difficult time locating sites. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Commissioner Lindahl, seconded by Commissioner Boyer, to adjourn the meeting at 9:38 p.m. Motion carried on a 7-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote. Respectfully submitted, Brigette Blesi, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc. o