HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 28, 2006
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1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - FEBRUARY 28,2006
The Regular Bi-MontWy Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on February 28,2006, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover
City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota
Commissioners present:
Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Rex
Greenwald, Michael Casey, Valerie Holthus, Devon
Walton (arrived at 7:06 p.m.) and Michael King.
Commissioners absent:
There were none.
Also present:
City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Associate Planner, Andy Cross
Associate Planner, Chris Vrchota
Others
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APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
February 14,2006
Commissioner Kirchoff indicated on page 5, the name of the bus company should be
"Grande American Bus Company" instead of "9reat-American Bus Company".
Motion by Casey, seconded by Holthus, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, I present (Greenwald), I-absent (Walton) vote.
WORK SESSION:
A. Sign Code
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Mr. Vrchota stated as part of the ongoing project to update the Zoning Code, staffhas
begun the process of updating the sign code. The goal of these changes is to modernize
the code, which has remained largely unchanged since the 1970's, to clarify unclear or
contradictory sections, and to establish a more defined set of performance standards.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 28, 2006
Page 2
Commissioner Walton arrived at 7:06 p.m.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated he wanted to clarify what it states on page 10; there is a
table at the top referring to parcels and square feet per dwelling. He stated there is an
asterisk and he was not sure what it applies to but it mentions "signs greater than four
square feet on parcels of land five acres or more in size shall only identify agricultural
related uses." He wondered if this meant that any parcel over five acres in size has to
identify agricultural uses only. Mr. Vrchota stated they do in a residential district.
Commissioner King stated one area talks about the temporary signs in the old standard it
limited it to thirty days out of a twelve month period, now they are taking any limitation
out completely. Now it is saying a temporary sign may be placed in such a manner as not
to be solidly affixed to any building structure or land. There is no time period for a
temporary sign, so why is it considered temporary. Mr. Vrchota stated they put the time
limit in the section dealing with temporary signs.
Commissioner King stated on page seven under prohibited in all districts, audible signs,
does that also make reference to real estate signs that have phone numbers on them for
people to call. Chairperson Daninger thought this was considered inward audible and the
code is indicating outward audible.
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Commissioner Holthus wondered if it was possible to have a chart or graph indicating
what was allowed in each of the districts. Mr. Vrchota stated they did look at that and the
problem they found is that there are so many different caveats per zoning district that it
ended up having a whole bunch of sub sections and was not as functional as a table
should be.
Commissioner Greenwald wondered if roof signs were something that came from the
Council. Mr. Vrchota stated in working on updating this, they looked at other cities to
see what they had done on their recent sign updates and there was a trend towards
limiting roof signs. Commissioner Greenwald did not think they could completely
disallow roof signs because sometimes there might be somewhere they would want to use
them. He thought there should be something listed under Promotional Signs, Item A.
Commissioner Greenwald wondered what the limit of time was that someone could put a
real estate sign for open houses, etc on comers. Mr. Vrchota stated real estate signs are
covered under l2-l6-4a, on page 6. Number 5 indicates signs have to be removed within
seven days after the completion of the advertised sale or lease. Commissioner Walton
did not think that section dealt with temporary real estate signage. He thought it dealt
with lot signs or a regular post hanging for sale sign in a yard.
The Commission discussed temporary real estate signage.
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Commissioner Walton stated the temporary real estate signage seemed troublesome to
him. He thought the different types of real estate signs needed to be individually defined.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 28, 2006
Page 3
He thought real estate signage should be covered as an entirely different entity.
Commissioner Greenwald agreed.
Commissioner Walton stated he noticed on page one, bench sign, it comments briefly
about a sign attached to a bench not to include memorial dedications in park areas yet as
a signage type, they do not cover memorial dedications that he saw and he wondered if
they could or should establish memorial dedications, albeit plaques or other types of
signage as a separate signing definition.
Chairperson Daninger wondered if Andover had any billboards in the City. Mr, Vrchota
stated they did not. Chairperson Daninger wondered about the calendar year for sign
permits. He wondered what happens to the people who apply for a sign at the end of the
year. Mr. Vrchota stated they would have a permit for the time they apply for it until the
end of the year and then they would have to apply again at the beginning of the year.
Chairperson Daninger stated they have not addressed any signs within the roadway. Mr.
Vrchota stated private signs are not allowed on public right-of-way, they need to be on
private property.
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Commissioner King wondered why they are excluding trailer signs as real estate signs.
Mr. Vrchota stated most businesses use trailer signs for their advertising but are not
appropriate for a residential area.
Commissioner Walton stated if they are gong to allow it for a block based business,
which real estate businesses do operate out of, in terms of taking away a promotional
opporl:w::\ity from a real estate business, he thought this was too restrictive. Mr. Vrchota
indicated they were not saying that a real estate agent with an office in a commercial area
could not use it; they are saying those are not appropriate in a residential area.
Commissioner Walton thought that may be the one restrictive comment to add to the
verbiage. He thought the wording should include "populated residential area" in the
revision.
Commissioner Walton thought they should allow the trailer signs in new developments
where there are few if no houses built yet.
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Chairperson Daninger asked the Commission if in a development area, they would like to
see a trailer sign in there. Commissioner King stated he believed it should be allowed.
Commissioner Greenwald stated it would be too difficult to monitor and he did not think
a trailer sign would work. Commissioner Holthus thought it would be too hard to keep
track of in a residential area. Commissioner Casey thought once the development starts,
if there are not houses there, he could see that use but once the residences are constructed,
he thought it would take away from the neighborhood. Chairperson Daninger indicated
he would not like it either.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 28, 2006
Page 4
Commissioner Walton wondered if it should state "trailer signs shall be restricted to
commercial property only."
Commissioner Greenwald stated he was concerned by the roofline aspect of the building
in regards to where signage could be installed. Mr. Vrchota stated the intention is that it
does not extend above the roofline. There is also the twenty-five foot height limit for
signs.
B. Automobile Sales Performance Standards
Mr. Bednarz stated at the previous meeting the Planning Commission expressed specific
items they wanted the performance standards to address.
Chairperson asked the Commission if they were comfortable with 10,000 Ibs for weight.
The Commission concurred.
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Commissioner King asked on the first page, they make reference to State Statute 168.27,
dealing with bonding. One of the things they talked about was they did not want to get
into a situation of dismantling vehicles and putting them back together, Statute 168.27
states both of these items. Mr. Bednarz stated the proposed local standards do not allow
dismantling onsite.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated they discussed there would be no automobile repairs on a
used car lot unless they possess a new dealer license and he wondered if there was new
criteria for a new dealer versus a used dealer. Mr. Bednarz stated there is not.
Commissioner Greenwood wondered if this is practical because he thought used dealers
might buy vehicles from auction and may need to :fix them up to sell them. Mr. Bednarz
stated this is an issue of contention with the operation that wants to do business in
Andover and they feel that this is an unfair restriction because it would discriminate
against used car dealers. Staff does not want vehicles brought in and major repairs
completed before it can be sold on the same site.
Commissioner Greenwald thought this put a big restriction on the used car business.
Commissioner Kirchoff thought it did not because they could repair the vehicles at
another place. Commissioner Greenwald thought that was too restrictive and he had an
issue with that. He thought minor repairs would be ok and they could include wording in
the code indicating what type of repairs could be done on site. Chairperson Daninger
thought the Commission discussed this in detail at the last meeting and were in
concurrence with what was written. Commissioner Greenwald indicated he was
vehemently against this because they are forcing the business to have a location outside
of Andover to do their business.
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Mr. Bednarz stated the intent was not to stop people from detailing vehicles; the intent
was to stop them from dropping in new engines in the vehicles to resell them.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 28, 2006
Page 5
Commissioner Greenwald stated he agreed with that but the vehicle may need tires or a
battery in that would be considered automobile repair. Commissioner Walton wondered
where they could draw the line because every vehicle would need to be prepped in
someway or another that is coming from auction. Plus they are also restricting repair to
new motor vehicle dealers. He did not think this was fair either.
Commissioner Holthus thought in the wording they could put something in that says "no
significant automobile repair shall be allowed on any premises". This would
communicate that they are not talking about any major engine repairs.
The Commissioner discussed further the definition of automobile repair.
Commissioner Walton stated on page five, it talks about renewal of license, it basically
states the positive and he wondered if they needed to state the negative also. Mr. Bednarz
stated the business is required to get an annual license and the terms of revocation have it
covered both ways.
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Commissioner Walton wondered what defined "new auto parts". Chairperson Daninger
wondered if "refurbished" is considered new. He asked Mr. Bednarz to research this.
Mr. Bednarz stated they are not concerned with distinguishing between new and
refurbished auto parts. The intent is not to have parts taken from used vehicles and sold.
Commissioner Holthus stated on page six, off street parking requirements were covered
and she wondered where in this formula is the parking for the cars to be sold. Mr.
Bednarz stated they were going to look at each site individually in terms of determining
how many parking spaces will be needed for the cars for sale.
The Commission continued to discuss Item I. Chairperson Daninger wondered how far
they can go before it is considered a repair. Commissioner Greenwald thought they
should make a list of what type of repair would be allowed.
Chairperson Daninger wondered if the Commission would want to see full repair of
vehicles on the dealer site. The Commission did not. Commissioner Greenwald stated
they could restrict automotive repair to the inside of the building.
Commissioner Walton discussed what they talked about at the previous meeting
regarding this. Mr. Bednarz stated he would try to rework the language on this item.
OTHER BUSINESS.
Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 28, 2006
Page 6
ADJOURNMENT.
Motion by Greenwood. seconded by Casey, to adjourn the meeting at 8:30 p.m. Motion
carried on a 7-ayes, a-nays, a-absent vote.
Respectfully Submitted.
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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