HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 28, 2006
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - NOVEMBER 28, 2006
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on November 28,2006, 7:00 p.m., at the
Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present:
Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tim Kirchoff,
Michael Casey, Valerie Holthus, and Devon Walton.
Commissioners absent:
Commissioners Rex Greenwald and Michael King.
Also present:
City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Associate Planner, Andy Cross
Others
APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
November 14, 2006
Motion by Casey, seconded by Holthus, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 3-ayes, O-nays, 2-present (Kirchoff, Walton), 2-absent (Greenwald, King)
vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: SKETCH PLAN TO CONSIDER OFFICE DEVELOPMENT
AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF ROUND LAKE BOULEVARD AND 157TH
A VENUE NW.
Mr. Bednarz stated the applicant is seeking direction from the Planning Commission and
Council on their idea to construct a rural office development.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 7:05 p.m. Motion
carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 7:06 p.m. Motion
carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 28, 2006
Page 2
Ms. Sue Wagenstein and Steve Haag, Minneapolis Real Estate Developers, stated they
were at the meeting seeking to develop an office complex. She stated they would like to
offer office space at a more affordable rate than what is currently found in the area. She
stated they would like to start off with one office building and have a maximum of four
and to maintain the rural setting of the area.
Ms. Wagenstein made a presentation to the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Kirchoff noted Ms. Wagenstein indicated she talked to the County and
they thought a right-inlright-out on County Road 9 would be feasible. Ms. Wagenstein
stated that was correct.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the County said anything about County 20 and an access
there. Ms. Wagenstein felt the County would want a main access onto County 20 and
would be the best access. She stated they could also consider keeping the access on
County 9 as a fire access.
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Commissioner Kirchoff stated in looking at the development, did they feel they were
limited by not having sewer and water there and maybe this site in the future would have
a greater value at a higher intensity. Ms. Wagenstein thought it was partly due to the
septic and well that they would need to install but they have never been developers to
abuse the property. They would like it to be nice and quaint and they could be more
dense if they wanted to but this is what would work for them economically and create a
different setting.
Mr. Steve Haag, 4765 Chandler Road, Shoreview, stated this was option D. They
actually had more square footage on this site on some of their earlier options. He stated
they could get more square footage on this property and still provide for sanitation
treatment, storm water ponding and a private well. He indicated they have an opportunity
here to do something that is in keeping in character of the neighborhood and they want to
take advantage of that so that is why they are presenting this option.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked what kind of materials they had in mind for the buildings.
Ms. Wagenstein indicated they would be trying to achieve the Tuscan look indicated in
the latest photographs and that all of the buildings would be one level. Mr. Haag noted
they are trying to be sensitive to the trees that are on the site.
Chairperson Daninger asked if the reason for this site was because of the cost versus
other commercial sites in Andover. Ms. Wagenstein indicated the primary drive and
focus was they were looking for a great site where they could create this type of
environment.
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Chairperson Daninger asked if the Rural Reserve did not move forward, would this affect
their intent to move forward. Ms. Wagenstein indicated it would not. They would still
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 28, 2006
Page 3
do the septic and well until a future date when there would be utilities. They planned this
into the site so it would be easier to connect in the future. .
Chairperson Daninger asked when the sketch plan before them be complete if they were
allowed to build all four buildings. Ms. Wagenstein indicated they would have a lot of it
complete by next fall, at least one or two buildings. Mr. Haag indicated it would depend
on the acceptance by the market, it could be one to four years.
Chairperson Daninger asked if the parking would be complete as seen or would it grow
with the buildings. Mr. Haag indicated it would grow with the buildings.
Chairperson Daninger stated there was talk about school and commercial property here
when they were discussing the Rural Reserve, would this be the spot they discussed. Mr.
Bednarz stated it could actually be on the east side of Round Lake Boulevard in the Rural
Reserve itself.
Commissioner IGrchoff asked if the parking would serve retail as well as office. Ms.
Wagenstein indicated they would not provide retail in this development. They were
looking for professional services such as accounting, dental, etc.
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Commissioner Holthus asked how tall the office buildings would be. Mr. Haag stated
they would all be one story buildings.
Chairperson Daninger wondered if the Commission thought the office buildings fit in this
area of the City.
Commissioner IGrchoff stated at face value, looking at the photos, County Road 20 and
County Road 9 will be busy in the future. He thought this was a little premature but not
out of character.
Commissioner Holthus thought the development looked very attractive but there is the
question of when the Rural Reserve will be developed and when utilities will be
available. She thought this may be out of character for some time until the Rural Reserve
is developed. She did not know if this was the right place for it.
Commissioner Casey thought it has a lot of good potential especially with the Rural
Reserve across the street and eventually coming. He thought this might be a good pace
setter for the whole Rural Reserve area once it does come in. He stated right now the
area is very underdeveloped and across from the Andover Industrial area which is in bad
need of some sort of development.
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Commissioner Walton stated he struggled with the location being that close to residential
but they are acreage properties there and it is a busy intersection and will be difficult to
put a residential property there. He felt the corner is not residential and should be
commercial of some type. He was not certain if office was the best fit for the space but
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Page 4
the appearance may blend in better with the residential than any other square pointed
building might.
Chairperson Daninger stated if this was allowed, he wondered if anyone would have an
issue with the sketch plan, Alternative D.
Commissioner Holthus asked what the tree preservation plan would be. She thought
according to the sketch plan a lot of trees would have to go. Chairperson Daninger
thought a lot would have to go because of the pavement and the buildings and storm
pond.
Commissioner Kirchoff stated he was concerned that if a really intense development were
proposed, it would not have good access because of its proximity to the intersection, .
which he expected to carry even more traffic in the future. He liked the lower intensity of
the proposed development because the access is limited. He supported this on the site
itself because he considered this to be relatively 10w intensity.
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Chairperson Daninger thought the underlying guidance is that it may be premature. If it
was closer to some other things, the sketch plan might be doable other than the fact they
would want a little more detail. His guidance is this is not a no, but their concern is it
may be too early. There are a lot of restrictions. He thought if they were going to vote it
would be a no but maybe as they move forward of the Rural Reserve development gets
closer, it may be a yes. That could be six months or five years. They may struggle if
they see this and probably if they had to make a recommendation, he was sensing it
would be a vote for no.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 5, 2006
City Council meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT (06-10) TO ALLOW A
CHURCH ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY LOCATED AT 475 ANDOVER
BOULEVARD NW.
Mr. Cross explained Sambulsa of Minnesota, Inc. has applied for a Conditional Use
Permit to operate a Buddhist temple on a residential property at the northeast corner of
the intersection of Andover Boulevard and Prairie Road NW. Churches are conditional
uses in residential zoning districts. The Planning Commission was asked to determine
whether this use is appropriate and/or needs to be modified to prevent adverse impacts on
surrounding properties.
Mr. Cross discussed the staff report with the Commission.
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Commissioner Walton stated in reviewing the letter that was provided from Mr. Mark
Smith, ifmost of the items on the letter are zoning requirements. Mr. Cross stated most
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Page 5
of the items addressed are either addressed by zoning requirements or in the commercial
site plan review.
Commissioner Kirchoff how large the existing structure was. Mr. Cross stated the area
of the existing house is roughly thirteen hundred square feet. Commissioner Kirchoff
noted it would be thirty-eight hundred square feet with the additions. Mr. Cross indicated
that was correct.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 7:43 p.m. Motion
carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
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Mr. Kent Meister, 541 Andover Boulevard, stated in reviewing the paperwork the City
sent them that the criteria to grant or deny a Conditional Use Permit includes a'varlety of
items. One of them being Item IB: "existing and anticipated traffic conditions including
parking facilities on adjacent properties and land". He thought the key word was
anticipated. He did not know if there was a formula they can create to uncover what they
will have down the road but in the letter prepared by the representative of Sambulsa, it
states only fifteen to twenty families attend services on the average Sunday. He stated
while this may be accurate, it may be also immaterial to them. In a growing City like
Andover, that number is going to grow as well as their church size. One of the reasons
they are 100king to expand in Andover because in discussion with the City of Brooklyn
Park where they currently worship they could not meet setback requirements to expand
their current facility. The fact they are planning to expand is quite obvious to all.
Mr. Meister stated in discussions with the City's Building Officials they shared one major
concern, which was onsite parking. He wondered who will police the parking situation if
it becomes too small in the next three years. He thought they should try to be proactive
instead of reactive in this scenario. If they end up with cars parking out on Prairie Road
like they do at Prairie Knoll Park, they will have a mess.
Mr. Meister stated there are a number of concerns he has. He stated City Code 13-06 in
the City Code book states "all commercial buildings two thousand square foot or over
require fire suppression systems". This home is not serviced by sewer and water and he
did not believe there are any plans for it to ever be serviced by sewer and water. He
noted just the cost on this for a well is extremely high. There are also immense costs to
making the building completely handicap accessible. Septic and well probably need to be
replaced. City Code also requires that any parking lot, driveway, anything of that nature
be paved with curb and gutter and storm sewer. These are costs he hoped the applicant
was aware of because they are extraordinarily high costs to do these things.
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Mr. Meister stated when this plan does go to commercial site review, if it is approved, his
discussions with the County indicated that they will require that both driveways be
removed off of Andover Boulevard and all traffic be directed to Prairie Road, which
would require quite a bit of land moving and a lot of work to be done there. He also
wondered how this proposed plan is less intrusive than a person running a small company
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Page 6
out of there because with this plan, there could be more traffic than a small business
would have. Chairperson Daninger stated a small business would also require a
Conditional Use Permit and they would explore the same way they are exploring this one.
Mr. Meister asked if the applicant would be tax exempt. Mr. Bednarz believed the
church would be tax exempt if they could meet the State's requirements in terms of
reporting.
Mr. Meister suggested they look at expanding the area of notification in rural areas
because this mailing only reached people within 350 feet of the property and more
neighbors should be notified than just the surrounding neighbors. Chairperson Daninger
indicated that was a good idea.
Mr. Scott Daninberg, 425 Andover Boulevard, asked how many people will end up in the
church five to ten years from now. He also wondered about the septic system because he
did not think the current septic could handle this number of people. He wondered how
this will affect him because he has a shared driveway with the applicant.
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Mr. Archie Zahler, 15309 Cottonwood Street NW, Andover, stated the main reason he
was here is because he knows what a nightmare it is for them at times to get out of the
east side of Andover. They have railroad tracks and Prairie Knoll Park is a nightmare,
now they are going to add more cars and traffic on a road that is deadly. Andover
Boulevard going to the east through Ham Lake is very dangerous and does not need any
more traffic. He stated he did not know where they will put all of the cars on a two lane
road. He stated this road cannot handle additional traffic. He thought there were better
places for this project than this area.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:58 p.m.
Motion carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
Mr. Jack Prescott, representing Sambulsa, stated as a fifteen year member of the church
he would like to say in response to the people concerned about the church growing, ten.
years ago they were the same size then as they are now. He stated their prayer room in
Brooklyn Park is very small and he did not see a significant increase in cars and traffic.
He stated this is the only Korean Church in Minnesota and the Korean population is not
increasing. He stated they do not look for a large growth. They also realize there are big
expenses involved and they will try to get over that as well and they will work with the
City and be as cooperative as possible. He noted they are tax exempt.
Chairperson Daninger indicated there was an issue regarding the shared driveway and he
asked staff to look into this. Mr. Prescott stated if there is a problem with this they will
adjust their plans to fit the circumstances.
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Page 7
Commissioner Kirchoff asked if things come up where they were asked to vacate
Andover Boulevard and move the access to Prairie Road, would this be something the
church would be willing to look at. Mr. Prescott stated they would.
Commissioner Holthus wondered if the Korean Buddhist had significant holidays that
would produce more traffic. Mr. Prescott indicated they have one holiday, which is
Buddha's birthday in the late spring. Mr. Prescott indicated they celebrate Thanksgiving
and New Years but they are not big celebrations.
Commissioner Walton wondered what brought them to this particular site in Andover.
Mr. Prescott stated it was because they tried to do something in Brooklyn Park and they
put so many things in their way that financially they could not handle it.
Commissioner Walton wondered if other sites within Andover had been reviewed and
compared with this site. Mr. Prescott stated they have looked around a little bit but they
are stuck with Rl because the Code says the only place you can put a church is Rl. Mr.
Bednarz indicated it was residential districts in general.
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Commissioner Kirchoff stated if this goes to a Site Plan Review, that is where they will
really see some requirements and improvements the applicant will be aware of. He did
not see a 10t of traffic as compared to the Prairie Knoll Park site. He stated this is a large
site and there are a lot of requirements already in place on what can be placed on this
property. He did not see any real negative issues with this project.
Commissioner Holthus stated she did not see any negative impacts on the community
with the project. She did not know how it will affect the value of properties in the area
but she did not see any major negatives at all and she was ok with it also.
Commissioner Walton stated he was concerned with the access to Andover Boulevard as
well as the impact to the neighbor to the east since there is right now a required shared
driveway and he did not know how they will get around that and he did not think it was
fair that the resident should have to share that driveway continually with the neighboring
property. He would rather see both access points to Prairie Road because Andover
Boulevard is probably the faster of the two and Prairie Road could probably handle the
traffic better than Andover Boulevard. He thought this was potentially a good spot with
this and did not disagree in whole with it.
Chairperson Daninger indicated staff will look into the shared driveway and what can be
done regarding this.
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Chairperson Daninger stated he looked at other churches in Andover and what is located
around them. He stated this is the first time houses were in the area before a church and
the only difference was neighbors did not know a church was coming. He could not find
any negative reasons for not allowing this. He stated he did not have an issue with what
was before them at this point.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 28, 2006
Page 8
The Commissioner discussed with staff what things the developments in this area would
be responsible for the improvements to the roads.
Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Holthus, to recommend approval of the Conditional
Use Permit for Sambulsa of Minnesota, Inc. and to direct staff to explore the shared
driveway. Motion carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-(Greenwald, King) absent vote.
Mr. Cross stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 19,2006
City Council meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING: CITY CODE AMENDMENT TO DELETE CITY CODE 12-14-
6A.5 PERMITTING DISCRETIONARY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPROVAL
OF USES NOT SPECIFICALLY LISTED.
Mr. Cross stated based on direction from the City Council, the Planning Commission is
asked to discuss the deletion of Code Section 12-14-6-A-5, which allows certain
Conditional Uses to be located in zoning districts where they are otherwise prohibited.
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Mr. Cross discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Commissioner Kirchoff asked what the actual change would be. Mr. Cross stated the
actual change is illustrated best in the Resolution and is the deletion of part five.
Commissioner Kirchoff indicated in the most recent addition of Planning magazine there
was an article indicating that it was better to list prohibited items than to try to list all
permitted uses. He wondered how that would fit with this. Mr. Bednarz stated if they
can identify those uses to prohibit it is certainly a very proaQtive and useful way to
approach the subject. In their own code they list uses as permitted and anything that is
not listed is in fact prohibited. Part 5 was always the safety valve where if something
made sense but was not listed in the code there was the opportunity to entertain it. All of .
the things Mr. Cross said are accurate in terms of the Council's view of that and why this
is being brought forward to be deleted.
Motion by Casey, seconded by Walton, to open the public hearing at 8:22 p.m. Motion
carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
There was no public input.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 8:22 p.m. Motion
carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
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Commissioner Walton stated he saw that part of the City Council meeting and understood
the City Attorney's comments that as stated, "he was not fond of the language".
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Page 9
However, he thought it was important that the City not be so boxed in because if they box
in things now, it becomes more difficult to change in the future. If they remove language
that gives the City Council the veto power to allow something that in the future makes
sense, they will not be able to do it and they may end up with barren land or a building
that sits vacant for a number of years because conditional uses in that particular area as
they were originally granted don't allow it to be changed or any flexibility in change.
That is the only concern he really had in removing this because it makes everything so
black and white, it does not allow for any creativity to spawn change. He thought that is
what it was intended to be left there for was to give some flexibility and veto power. He
thought what Commissioner Kirchoff mentioned made sense.
Chairperson DaIiinger agreed with Commissioner Walton and asked staff if there was
another opportunity for Council to make decisions. Mr. Bednarz stated the applicant can
always request the City to amend the code to put a use into a Zoning District.
Commissioner Holthus stated at the City Council meeting Councilmember Knight
suggested they clean up the paragraph that the City Attorney mentioned. She wondered
if there was any way they could maintain the flexibility while at the same time make the
Council's decisions defendable if challenged. Mr. Bednarz thought that could be done if
that is the decision that is selected.
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Commissioner Walton recommended instead of pulling this and then looking at it and
putting it back in, they look at a rewrite with the City Attorney to allow the flexibility to
stay there because if they pull it out, it is harder to put it back in.
Motion by Walton, seconded by Casey, to recommend to the City Council to have staff
work with the City Attorney to modify but not delete the existing paragraph due to the
flexibility that it allows not only the current governing body of Andover but the future
governing bodies of Andover and that the City Council's decisions are defendable.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, I-nays (Daninger), 2-absent (Greenwald, IGng) vote.
Mr. Cross stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 19,2006
City Council meeting.
OTHER BUSINESS.t
Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
Mr. Bednarz mentioned that the City is now taking applications for the Planning
Commission, Park Commission and Community Center Advisory Commission.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - November 28, 2006
Page 10
ADJOURNMENT.
Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Casey, to adjourn the meeting at 8:35 p.m. Motion
carried on as-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Greenwald, King) vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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