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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2026-02-24 WK ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING – FEBRUARY 24, 2026 MINUTES The Workshop Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Barthel, February 24, 2026, 6:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Rick Engelhardt, Karen Godfrey, Scott Schue, and Jonathan Shafto Councilmember absent: None Also present: City Administrator, Sarah Cotton Community Development Director, Joe Janish Director of Public Works/City Engineer, David Berkowitz Parks & Streets Operations Manager, Jason Baumunk Assistant City Engineer, Jason Law Engineering Technician IV, Al Koester Les Bloom, North Valley Inc. Jason Osberg, Metrowide Development, LLC Others DISCUSS CONCRETE CURB AND GUTTER VERSUS BITUMINOUS CURB FOR RURAL STREET RECONSTRUCTION PROJECTS Mr. Berkowitz presented the staff report and explained the City Council is requested to discuss the use of concrete curb and gutter versus bituminous curb for the upcoming rural street reconstruction projects. He introduced the members of staff and others present to assist in this discussion. He provided background information on concrete curb, how it is designed within a project, and the benefits of using concrete curb. Mr. Koester provided additional information on the flatter grades that can be used for concrete curb, as well as other benefits provided by using that product. Mr. Baumunk provided additional information on the comparison between concrete curb and bituminous curb. He stated the largest difference is the longer lifecycle provided by concrete curb and gutter. He stated the use of bituminous curb would reduce the lifecycle of the road and provided an explanation of the structural impacts. He explained the Council previously committed to addressing the needs of the roadways and moving forward with a consistent approach for long- term maintenance needs. Mr. Berkowitz explained less than ten percent of the roadways still have bituminous curb, as they Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 2 have worked to replace that through road projects. He recognized that bituminous curb has a lesser upfront cost, but a higher long-term cost in terms of ongoing maintenance for mill & overlay and reconstruction projects. Councilmember Schue asked about the life expectancy of concrete curb. Mr. Baumunk replied there is a road project this year where the concrete curb was constructed in 1980, and they are doing spot repairs of the curb because it is in great condition and expect that to last at least the next 20 years. Councilmember Schue asked if that is normal or an anomaly. Les Bloom, North Valley, Inc., replied the lifespan of concrete curb and gutter is 50+ years. He commented on the many benefits of concrete curb in addition to the lifespan. He stated concrete curb has a gutter, where bituminous curb is just a berm. He stated that MnDOT only considers bituminous curb in temporary situations. He commented the surmountable concrete curb is much smoother for residents, where bituminous curb has a defined bump. He stated that milling machines cannot operate effectively next to bituminous curb, which results in the most damaged sections of the old road being left in place. He stated catch basin structures also last 10 to 15 more years when concrete curb and gutter is used versus bituminous. Mr. Berkowitz continued to review the benefits of concrete curb versus bituminous curb. Mr. Bloom provided additional details on constructability and additional costs for bituminous curb. He recognized the unit price for bituminous is lower, but that is not the total cost, and explained some of those additional costs for construction and restoration. He agreed the original cost will be cheaper for bituminous curb, but there are other cost considerations, and concrete curb has a much longer life and less ongoing maintenance needs. Mr. Berkowitz recognized the high number of jobs that Mr. Bloom bids each year and asked about the number of projects that include bituminous curb. Mr. Bloom replied he has not bid any projects with bituminous curb in recent years, noting the last project that included bituminous curb was Timber Rivers Estates in Andover, and he recommended that not be included at that time. Mr. Berkowitz noted that concrete curb and gutter has been the City’s construction standard since 1998 and provided some photographs from recently completed projects that transitioned from bituminous to concrete curb, showing the failures that had occurred with the previous bituminous curbing. He also explained the difficulties in attempting to retrofit bituminous curb into an already developed area and the lack of ability to provide compaction. Mr. Bloom explained the differences that have been made to bituminous mixes over the years. He explained bituminous curb that may have lasted 40 years will not last that long now, which is why MnDOT will not use bituminous curbing for anything other than temporary situations. Councilmember Godfrey asked the type of bituminous that is used for curb. Mr. Bloom replied it is the same mix that is used for the street, which is what the street needs, but it is not as successful Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 3 in curb application. Councilmember Schue stated residents have provided comments that specialized machinery could be used to provide compaction. Mr. Bloom stated there is another machine that can be used, which would have an additional cost, and provided additional information. Mr. Berkowitz provided additional information on how the bituminous curb can be dislodged or ‘popped off’ by snowplows if not constructed in the right manner. Councilmember Schue recognized that plowing has impacted bituminous curb. Mr. Baumunk commented if there is bituminous curb, he instructs those drivers to plow further out from the curb and recognized that creates additional issues with water that can pool in that area. He noted an instance where the County plowed too close to bituminous curb and pushed that curb material into a yard. He stated concrete curb will damage a plow before the plow will damage the curb. Mr. Law stated the two main enemies of pavement are loading and the weather. He stated to help with loading, the concrete curb provides structure. He stated the freeze-thaw cycle also causes damage, and the best way to deal with that is to get the water off the pavement. He provided information on the grades that exist within current developments, which is fine for concrete curb, but bituminous curb requires a minimum 1 percent grade. Mr. Berkowitz stated although there is a cost savings in the upfront material cost, there is more staff time for the design and inspection services related to bituminous curb. Councilmember Schue recognized that staff time is an important concern and asked for more information on the difference in impact between bituminous and concrete curb projects. Mr. Berkowitz estimated a 10 to 20 percent difference in staff time and provided additional details on project elements that would increase that difference. Mr. Koester provided additional details on the staff time increases in inspection. Mr. Berkowitz asked about the resident complaints and/or satisfaction with Timber Rivers Estates. Mr. Koester provided additional details on that process and the complaints they addressed during that project. Mr. Berkowitz provided additional information on bid timing, noting that staff is still working on finalizing the design for concrete curb, which would allow for bidding possibly in late April. He stated if the alternate is added for bituminous curb, it will delay bidding to June. He stated when projects are bid later, there can be an impact on pricing. Councilmember Godfrey asked for more information on the delay in bidding and whether the projects would be at risk for not being completed before the end of the year. Mr. Berkowitz replied they would still require the projects to be completed prior to the end of fall. He explained the City does not require tight timeframes for project construction, which allows the contractor to find the best window to complete the work within the allowed window to obtain better pricing. He stated if the project is bid in June, it would not be completed until the end of October. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 4 Mr. Berkowitz recognized that staff are passionate about this issue for the reasons discussed tonight and wanted to ensure that the Council also had all this information. Councilmember Schue stated he was not questioning the expertise of staff but was responding to the comments received by residents from two different neighborhoods who had questions on this topic. He asked if there was more information on Timber Rivers Estates and the statistics from that pilot program that could be provided to residents. Mr. Berkowitz stated the statistics were related to constructability and lifespan. He stated that project is a significant lesson learned regarding the trade-offs of lower cost curbing, but also recognized that it is a unique development where residents were going to have large assessments. Mayor Barthel recalled they went forward with the pilot for Timber Rivers Estates because of the cost, noting that one property was going to be assessed $34,000 for that project. Mr. Berkowitz stated it is difficult to figure out assessments for projects, and they do the best they can to do what is most fair to the residents. He explained Timber Rivers Estates is a very unique development because there are lots under 2.5 acres and over 2.5 acres, some of which are large estate lots. Mayor Barthel stated after concrete curb is installed, he never receives complaints about the project. Councilmember Shafto stated he did his own research on this topic and provided some sources that could be reviewed. He stated based on that information, he was convinced that concrete curb is the way to go because of the increased life expectancy of concrete and the ongoing maintenance costs of bituminous curb in the long-term. He stated concrete curb has maintenance costs 75 percent less than bituminous curb, recognizing the impact of snowplows. Councilmember Godfrey identified two primary questions for the Council: first, whether to revise the policy adopted in 1998; and second, whether to remove the bituminous alternate from the bid process to eliminate further delays and save administrative effort. Ms. Cotton commented there were two emails from residents provided to the Council, noting that both resident emails favored concrete curb and gutter over bituminous. She noted both emails would be included in the official record. Mayor Barthel was unsure that the decision to remove the bituminous curb could be made at this meeting. He asked the number of hours that have been put into that plan development and how many more hours would be needed to complete that process. Mr. Berkowitz stated staff is finalizing the concrete plans and has not begun anything for the bituminous alternate. He stated if they stayed with the concrete, they could bid the projects in April, and he provided additional information on bid packaging. Mr. Law noted if the bituminous curb alternate is removed, it would save over a month on the bidding process. Councilmember Schue stated he would like to have a continued discussion on the policy in the Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 5 future, but was uncertain that they would make any changes. Councilmember Godfrey stated she has serious concerns about delaying the project further. She suggested that staff paraphrase the policy to provide the background information desired by Councilmember Schue. Mayor Barthel clarified the question of policy is whether it should remain as is with concrete curb and gutter only, or provide an option for bituminous. Councilmember Engelhardt replied he believes it would be a decision of engineering rather than a question of resident preference. He stated this is an infrastructure decision, and he would not want to create a policy that allows residents to choose a curb option à la carte. Councilmember Shafto commented he has done research and does not believe there is any reason to change the policy. He stated the research out there supports the policy as is. Councilmember Godfrey agreed. Mayor Barthel stated at any time, a member of the Council can read a policy and suggest changes. He confirmed the unanimous consensus of the Council to leave the policy as it is today. Councilmember Shafto asked if there would be notice to the residents that the bituminous curb alternate is going to be considered for removal from the projects. He recognized the residents present at the public hearings are not present tonight for this discussion. Ms. Cotton replied it would be noticed in the same way an agenda is noticed. She explained how precedent could be set if certain residents are notified for certain items, and that is not done specifically for other items. Councilmember Godfrey commented they should proceed with typical notification, noting that it is the responsibility of residents to pay attention to what is being discussed. Councilmember Schue commented the residents would then only be notified of the information and agenda by going onto the City website. Councilmember Shafto noted that residents can also reach out to a Councilmember to ask questions. Councilmember Godfrey noted it was mentioned at the public hearing that this topic would be discussed in a work session. Mayor Barthel commented the minutes from this meeting must be adopted and official prior to the action being considered. Mayor Barthel confirmed the unanimous consensus of the Council to direct staff to prepare an action to be considered at the March 17, 2026, meeting to consider the removal of the bituminous bid alternates from the two projects where it had been included. DISCUSS POSSIBLE SOUTH WARD LAKE DEVELOPMENT Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 6 Mr. Janish presented the staff report and explained the City Council is requested to consider discussion and direction related to access and lot configuration of a property located south of Ward Lake. He provided additional information on the proposed layout, the discussions with the developer, and items for consideration. Councilmember Godfrey asked the length of the emergency access and about the input from the Fire Department. Mr. Janish replied that the distance is over 1,200 feet and discussed a potential identified within ghost platting. He stated the Fire Department has stated they would follow the direction of the City Council. He stated previously the Council did not want to take responsibility for a longer emergency access and noted that in this scenario, the HOA would take responsibility for the emergency access. He stated the emergency access minimum standards would be met. Councilmember Schue noted each of the lots would be 2.5 acres or larger and asked if the Planning and Zoning Commission had reviewed this yet. Mr. Janish replied staff first brought this to the Council for input before the applicant invests in more formal plans. Councilmember Shafto stated he does feel better about the HOA taking responsibility for the emergency access, but asked what would happen if the HOA did not maintain that element. Mr. Janish stated he was unsure what would happen if the emergency access were blocked in an emergency scenario. Councilmember Shafto stated he did not like it before because the City would need to maintain that, but recognized that there would be a loss of control in ensuring the work is done by the HOA. Councilmember Godfrey asked if any of the lots are at least 300 feet wide. Mr. Janish identified the lots that would be over 300 feet wide, which were four of the nine lots. Mayor Barthel stated he appreciates the emergency access, but the reason cul-de-sac lengths were chosen at 500 feet because if a tree were blocking the entrance, there would be enough hose to reach 500 feet. He had concerns with how fire service would be provided if the emergency access were blocked, as seven homes could be put into jeopardy. Mr. Janish noted if the concern is with the number of homes after 500 feet, that would remove any development potential from the remainder of the property. Mayor Barthel stated not all land is developable. Councilmember Godfrey asked if the 1,200-foot emergency access road is even feasible given the wetlands and floodplain. Mr. Janish replied it would be expected to be constructed. He noted this is a sketch plan and identified high area were the emergency access would be located. Mayor Barthel stated the City can only control streets and does not control home placement on a lot. He acknowledged that the further a home is from the road, the harder it is to provide fire services, but that is the decision of the homeowner. He stated if the access road could go out to Ward Lake Drive, he would feel better about it. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 7 Mr. Janish asked if there would be support if the access road were 500 feet longer and went parallel to the roadway. Mayor Barthel stated he would feel better about it. Councilmember Godfrey agreed, but recognized that it would have impacts on the buffer. Mr. Janish noted the buffer would be a fence instead of vegetation. Mr. Janish asked if the Council would be okay with the proposed emergency access if the lots were all 300 feet wide. Mayor Barthel commented that making them all 300 feet would not change anything for emergency access. Councilmember Schue agreed that it would not be relevant to the issue of emergency access. Mr. Janish confirmed the Council wants the emergency access to connect to Ward Lake Drive. He asked for input on 175-foot widths versus 300 foot. Councilmember Schue stated he lives in an urban area of Andover, so he does not oppose this width, as it is double the lot widths in his area. Councilmember Godfrey stated she is not as concerned about the frontage as she is about the emergency access. Councilmember Engelhardt stated he does not oppose the 175-foot width. Councilmember Shafto commented while he does not love the smaller width, he recognized that the shorter lot width provides an increase in density, which is a benefit to everyone. Councilmember Godfrey recognized they will come across more of these issues as they continue to consider the development of the tougher properties. Councilmember Shafto commented he recognizes there is a balance between property rights and whether something looks like it should fit in terms of development. Mr. Janish commented they must also consider the highest and best use of these properties. Mayor Barthel confirmed the unanimous consensus of the Council to require the emergency access to connect to Ward Lake Drive. He stated there is a majority consensus in support of the 175-foot lot width. Mayor Barthel was unsure what the benefit would be in ensuring the lots have access to Ward Lake. Councilmember Shafto asked if the area could be laid out differently if they did not consider access to the lake. Mr. Janish explained the issue is with the pinch point for access. He noted many individuals have an interest in nature and this type of access. Mayor Barthel stated he would be okay with less than 300 feet of lot width and would like to see the front half of the access bumped north to provide more separation between the access and Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 8 emergency access. He stated if the road could move 30 to 50 feet north to provide separation, he could support lots widths of 175 feet. Mr. Janish provided an alternate development scenario that would have fewer lots, but more infrastructure costs with roadways, and asked if there would be support for that. Mayor Barthel replied he would not and confirmed the unanimous opposition of the Council to that alternative scenario. Jason Osberg, Metrowide Development, commented they would have enough frontage to pull the access and emergency access apart, but that may result in a lot smaller than 2.5 acres. He provided another scenario where they could try to come down, which would create some awkward lots. He stated they would not request more than nine lots but could reshuffle in an attempt to address the concerns related to public safety. Mayor Barthel stated if the two roads can be pulled apart and the first lot is smaller because of that, he would be okay with that. Councilmember Shafto agreed, as his greatest concern is also the emergency access. The rest of the Council also agreed. OTHER TOPICS Mr. Berkowitz stated he met with the Anoka County Highway Department to discuss a concern with Station Parkway and Hanson Boulevard. He provided an update on the potential improvements being discussed for the intersection, and agreed that these changes would make sense from an engineering and public safety standpoint. The Council did not have any concerns with the project. FUTURE AGENDA ITEM REQUESTS No comments. COUNCIL COMMITTEE UPDATES Councilmember Godfrey commented the Anoka-Hennepin Community Education Advisory Board meeting was rescheduled to the third week in March. Councilmember Shafto stated that FEMA is completing a study on the waterways and provided clarification on where the study boundaries are. He noted the study results can change the 100- year floodplain boundaries for residents, which could impact the need for flood insurance. Mr. Berkowitz confirmed that staff is involved in that process. Mayor Barthel stated he will reach out to Ms. Cotton to determine an April date to grill for the Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – February 24, 2026 Page 9 firefighters again. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Schue, Seconded by Engelhardt, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The workshop meeting adjourned at 8:06 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Amanda Staple, Recording Secretary