HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP February 4, 1999
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CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL JOINT ANDOVER CITY COUNCIVPARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MEETING - FEBRUARY 4,1999 - MINUTES
A Special Joint Meeting of the Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission was
called to order by Mayor Jack McKelvey on February 4, 1999,7:04 p.m., at the Andover City Hall,
1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Julie Johnson (left at 9:20 p.m.), Mike Knight, Ken
Orttel
Councilmembers absent: None
Park and Recreation
Commissioners present: Chairperson Dave Blackstad, Tom Anderson (arrived at 7:22 p.m.),
Brian Barringer (arrived at 7:22 p.m.), Jeff Kieffer (arrived at 9:08
p.m.), Al Grabowski, Jim Lindahl, Dave O'Toole
Park and Recreation
Commissioners absent: None
Also present: Public Works Superintendent, Frank Stone
Assistant City Engineer, Todd Haas
Others
DISCUSS NEW WELL AT HAWKRIDGE PARK/IP99-2
Mr. Haas explained there have been discussions in the past to construct a well at HawkRidge park.
The well would facilitate in fighting fires for both Andover and Oak Grove, which could potentially
help with insurance ratings, plus would be used to flood the skating rinks in the winter. In the future
it could also be used to irrigate the fields in the park. E. H. Renner has estimated a cost of $ I 0,000
to $15,000 to construct the well itself. There is no problem with the supply of water in the ground.
The City has a storage tank in Pumphouse # I that currently is not being used. That tank could be
relocated to be used in conjunction with the well at HawkRidge. Staff has invited representatives
from Oak Grove to attend several meetings, but no one has attended to date.
The discussion was on what would be needed besides the well itself. Fire Chief Dan Winkel stated
it is hard to put a value on a well at that location, but it would be a nice convenience for them. The
Council and Commission will have to evaluate the costs. It may help to lower the ISO rating. They
will be doing their ISO testing this spring. The well would be considered an alternate source, plus
a tank in the ground and a minimum pump size of 500 gallons per minute would be needed.
Chairperson Blackstad explained HawkRidge is a regional park. The hope would be to make the
fields usable and possibly add bathroom facilities. Mr. Stone stated HawkRidge is one of the busiest
parks in both the summer and the winter. Public Works hauls two loads of water per day to the ice
rinks in the winter.
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 4. 1999
Page 2
(Discuss New Well at HawkRidge Park/1P99-2, Continued)
The Council felt that the City of Oak Grove would also benefit from a welJ at that location and
should be involved in the discussions and financing a portion of it. They felt they could not make
any commitment at this time without having more detail on the costs and funding sources.
(Commissioners Anderson and Barringer arrived at this time, 7:22 p.m.)
Mr. Haas agreed to get estimates on the cost to refurbish and move the tank at Pumphouse #1, the
cost for the controls, etc., and bring them back to the Council and the Commission.
DISCUSS PROPOSED ORDINANCE 10, SECTION 9.07/PARK DEDICATION
REQUIREMENTS
Commissioner Grabowski reviewed the research he did on how other cities detennine residential
park dedication and commerciaJIindustrial park dedication. Only three of the 25 cities use a method
similar to Andover's current ordinance for residential developments. The others are using a per-unit
schedule when cash is dedicated in lieu of land. Many still use 10 percent if land only is dedicated,
but some base it on a density formula. Many cities base the park dedication for commercial and
industrial development per acre of development.
Commissioner Grabowski stated the Commission is suggesting the ordinance be amended relating
to residential developments when cash is dedicated in lieu of land. BasicalJy a single family
residence and lot splits would be charged $1,350 per unit; multiples, $1,000 per unit; and mobile
homes, $ I ,200 per unit. The proposal for land dedication requirements for residential only would
be based on density. They are also proposing a formula for a combination of cash and land
dedication. Cash in lieu of land dedicated for commercial and industrial development would be
charged $4,000 per acre. He noted the $ I ,350 may seem high right now, but the intent is that figure
would be in place for several years rather than changing the figure every year.
Chairperson Blackstad stated they have compared the proposal to what was currently done for park
dedication over the past few years. BasicalJy the rural plats may end up paying less, but the higher
density residential developments would pay considerably more. Shadowbrook 3rd, which has 59
lots, paid $42,000 but would have paid $79,000 under the new fonnula. The justification is the
more units per development, the greater the impact is on the park system and the City in general.
Chesterton Commons, 198 units, paid $125,000 for park dedication. It would have paid $267,000
under the new fonnula.
Mayor McKelvey stated he called some cities regarding their park dedication. He found that Blaine
charges $818 per unit; Ramsey, $975, Brooklyn Park, $900; and Maple Grove and Dayton, $1100.
His concern is that the proposal of$I,350 per unit would put Andover at the top three or four cities
in the metropolitan area for park dedication. While he is in favor of the per unit fonnula, he would
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 4, 1999
Page 3
(Discuss Proposed Ordinance 10, Section 9. 09/Park Dedication Requirements, Continued)
be interested in a figure closer to $ I ,000 per unit. Councilmember Jacobson noted the Attorney's
letter which states that the courts have upheld the 10 percent figure for park dedication. Now a
number must be determined for the per-unit formula that is in line with that. Councilmember Orttel
noted that some cities use an average fee and index it each year. It is difficult to average the land
sales in Andover because of the diversity of the land. In keeping to the 10 percent, he thought a
better indicator would be how the fee relates to the land value. One could also argue that there should
be a different system between the rural and urban residential developments, as those in the ruraJ area
do not tend to impact the park system as much.
The Council generally liked the per-unit concept for park dedication and suggested the Planning and
Zoning Commission hold a public hearing on the proposed changes. They did not agree to a specific
fee per unit for either residential or commercial developments at this time, thinking that should be
done after hearing the testimony at the public hearing. Any fee schedule should be outside of the
ordinance and indexed annually. They also suggested the Park and Recreation Commission look at
the proposed fees again and refine them before the public hearing.
Motion by Knight, Seconded by Jacobson, to pass this on to the P & Z for a public hearing on park
dedication fees and for the Park Board to prepare their material to take to the public hearing. Motion
carried unanimously.
DISCUSS AMENDMENT TO DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT IN REGARD TO COMP
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM FOR BIKEWAYIWALKWAY TRAILS
Chairperson Blackstad explained the Commission feels those bikeways and walkways that are
constructed along county roads or MSA streets are really a part of the transportation system and
should not be paid for from the park's budget or park dedication funds. Currently the City has been
paying for those trails on a 50-50 basis with the developer. The Commission is willing to contribute
toward any trails within the plats on a 50-50 cost split with the developer. Commissioner O'Toole
also stated that the trails along major roads are health and safety issues for the citizens. It is a
transportation issue for the safety of the citizens, not a recreational issue.
The Council discussed the issue with the Commission. The sentiment of the Council was to look
at those trails along major roadways as transportation issues as opposed to recreational trails, though
there may be some element of recreation to them. It was suggested the park share should be less than
50 percent along those major roads. The remainder should be paid by the developer and possibly
from MSA funds. They asked that the City Attorney look at the definition of transportation and the
legality of what is being discussed and submit a report for the next City Council meeting.
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 4. 1999
Page 4
DISCUSS AMENDMENT TO ASSESSMENT MANUAVPARKS
Chairperson Blackstad stated the Park Department is being charged $ 18,000 to $25,000 in
assessments for various projects. It is the Commission's opinion the parks should be available for
the residents and that the money from Capital Improvements and Park Dedication should be going
for park development, not for assessments. They would like the assessment manual clarified so
assessments would be paid from the General Fund and not be the Commission's responsibility from
the allocated Park Capital Improvement Budget or from park dedication funds.
Mr. Haas stated in talking with the Finance Director again, those assessments are not coming out of
the park capital budget but they will be shown in the Park budget because it is a park debt. It does
not diminish the amount available for improvements. Parks is a part of the General Fund budget.
The Council noted this is no longer an issue.
DISCUSS VARIOUS GRANT PROGRAMS A VAlLABLE FOR 1999 ROUND
Mr. Haas stated a number of grants may be available to the City. He asked the Council if they were
interesting in applying for any of them, understanding that if approved, they would be willing to
match those grants.
In discussing the issue, the Park Board and Council generally felt there is a lot of public support for
the trail system and that efforts should be made to extend it, especially to Kelsey-Round Lake Park.
Discussion was on the problem of completing the trail between Hanson Boulevard and Crosstown
Boulevard. From Crosstown Boulevard west, it was suggested the best location for the trail may be
along the north side of Coon Creek. The Commission also noted the desire to complete Phase 3 of
Kelsey-Round Lake Park. Mr. Haas thought the TII grant could be used to construct an underpass
at the railroad tracks to the Bunker Hills park. In that grant, the federal govemment pays 80 percent,
the City would pay 20 percent.
The council suggested Mr. Haas apply for the TI I grant for the underpass to Bunker Hills Park and
to apply for the Cooperative Trail Linkage Program. They asked that the Park Board make a
recommendation on what portion of the trail would be constructed with the grant monies. They also
agreed application should be made for an Outdoor Recreation Grant for Phase 3 of Kelsey-Round
Lake Park.
DISCUSS CROOKED LAKE BOAT LANDING
Mr. Haas explained the problem of trying to keep the ramp accessible for boats. The lake has silted
in around the boat landing on the north end. Staff has had some discussions with the City of Coon
Rapids about moving the boat access to their existing park on the east side of the lake. Their Staff
is saying it is a good idea, but the adjacent neighborhood is not in favor. The DNR will only allow
Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 4, 1999
Page 5
(Discuss Crooked Lake Boat Landing, Continued)
60 yards around the ramp to be dredged without a permit. Mr. Stone stated the landing is very
mucky. The DNR is concerned with punching a hole in the bottom of the lake if too much silt is
removed. The park will also be smaller with the widening of Bunker Lake Boulevard this summer.
The question is whether the Council agrees with the proposal to move the landing to Coon Rapids.
If so, the Coon Rapids Staff will then present the proposal to their Council.
The Council generally agreed with moving the boat landing to the Coon Rapids park if that City is
agreeable.
DISCUSS FIVE-YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN/CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
REPLACEMENT PLAN
Chairperson Blackstad noted the capital improvement plans basically includes items from the
proposed bond referendum. He also explained that some of the parks are getting old, and they need
to start a capital improvement budget to replace that equipment. He felt that the 2 I to 25 parks with
equipment should be scheduled for replacement equipment every eight to ten years. It costs about
$40,000 to $45,000 to refurbish a park. Two to three parks per year would need to be done to keep
up. Money received for park dedication would then go toward park development and new
construction. Commissioner O'Toole wondered if the replacement equipment could be bonded for
along with the other equipment that is bonded for by the City. Councilmember Orttel thought
equipment bonds must be for moving equipment, not playground equipment. He also noted an
additional expense in the future will be the maintenance of the trails such as patrol, mowing,
sealcoating, overlaying, etc.
The Council suggested the Commission determine a realistic dollar amount to be budgeted each year
for replacement equipment. They also asked for a rotation schedule of which parks would be done
when. Mr. Stone stated he would also provide an inventory of each park for the Council.
(Commissioner Kieffer arrived at this time, 9:08 p.m.)
DISCUSS 138TH A VENUE NWIREDEVELOPMENT OF THE AREA
Mr. Haas explained the playground equipment in the 138th A venue park needs to be replaced. It is
one of the worst parks Public Works has to deal with. The Commission would like to replace the
equipment; however, if that area is to be redeveloped, the money should not be spent on improving
the park now. The Council noted if the City proceeds with the redevelopment of that area, it would
not happen in a short time.
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 4. 1999
Page 6
DISCUSS POLICY ON MAINTENANCE OF OUTLOTS/PARKS BY THE PUBLIC
Chairperson Blackstad stated the Commission was concerned over the discussion with the residents
of Emerald Glen regarding the care of the outlot by the residents. Mowing public property and
improvements such as a bridge are a liability to the City. The Commission is suggesting some policy
be adopted. If the residents use power equipment, the City is liable. If extra insurance is needed,
who pays for it?
Mr. Stone stated those residents never came to the City with a plan. The Council said they could
maintain the outlot if the insurance was in place. The concern is when the residents along the Coon
Creek trail mow their lots down to the trail. They are mowing on park property which is supposed
to be left natural. Public Works doesn't care about the maintenance of the outlots by residents as
long as they don't put items in the way of their maintenance of the outlot.
Councilmember Orttel stated if a resident is on City property and hurts someone, there are two
sources -- the City's insurance and the resident's. It is a procedure that should be written to allow
for a reasonable contribution by the public and at the same time protect the City. He also noted that
the residents should bring in a plan of what they plan to do so the Engineering Department and
Public Works can look at it and approve it. Councilmember Knight felt the philosophy of having
people involved in their own neighborhood is a good one. He didn't know about the liability issue
when people adopt highways and parks.
Councilmember Orttel stated he would check on the liability coverage and whether the City has
enough coverage. He too did not want to keep people from taking an interest in their neighborhoods,
nor does he want to complicate it too much.
(Councilmember Johnson left the meeting at this time, 9:20 p.m.)
DISCUSS FAILURE OF 1998 PARK BOND REFERENDUM/IP98-18
Chairperson Blackstad felt the failure of the bond referendum could have been for several reasons.
It may have been too much money or that people didn't understand other taxes were being taken off
their properties. Councilmember Jacobson thought it was too much money and that people don't
want their taxes increased any more. Councilmember Orttel thought there was not enough passive
activities. Not many bond issues were approved; but the referendum in Woodbury to buy open
spaces did pass. He felt that is a concept the Park Board may want to pursue. Also, bond issues need
to be sold to the residents. The residents need to be convinced they want the projects. Mayor
McKelvey also felt the amount of the request was high and that not enough advertising was done.
Councilmember Knight stated the feedback he got was the residents didn't perceive a need.
Commissioner O'Toole asked if the Council would be interested in trying the bond referendum
again. Councilmember Orttel felt if it is done, it should be at the general election. He thought the
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Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
Minutes - February 4. 1999
Page 7
(Discuss Failure of 1998 Park Bond Referendum/lP98-18, Continued)
residents generally feel the City has a good park system. The project needs to be sold and supported
by people who benefit. If a community center goes forward, it may be at about the same time as a
park bond referendum.
Commissioner Grabowski reported on a survey done for the City of Champlin. There is a 12-page
summary on the results. He is willing to get a copy of that summary for the Commission and
Council. Councilmember Orttel indicated the City may need to have a professional survey done
as well. No further decisions were made this evening.
CITY MAINTENANCE OF THE BALL FIELDS AT THE SCHOOLS
Mr. Stone stated the director of softball for the youth is working with District I I to use the fields at
Crooked Lake School and Andover Elementary over the summer. In talking with the school district,
they would bring in lime to the fields, but asked that the City level it and then maintain the fields
during the summer. It would take about a day to level the fields, and they would maintain the fields
about one day a week throughout the ball season. The school district doesn't mow or maintain the
fields during the summer. Chairperson BIackstad stated the Cities of Anoka and Coon Rapids do
take care of the school fields in the summer.
Motion by Orttel, Seconded by Knight, that the Council authorizes the Public Works Department
to maintain the ball fields owned by the school district and used by the athletic association.
DISCUSSION: Councilmember Jacobson didn't think he had enough information at this point to
consider this. Does the Park Board have an agreement with the school district in writing? He asked
that the item be brought to the next regular Council meeting. Chairperson Blackstad stated he will
check with the cities of Anoka and Coon Rapids. Mr. Stone stated he will obtain a letter from the
school district granting the City pennission to maintain those fields.
Councilmembers Knight and Orttel withdrew the Second and the Motion. Staff agreed to bring the
item back to the City Council with some cost figures.
Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried on a 4-Yes, I-Absent
(Johnson) vote. The meeting adjourned at 9:44 p.m.
Respectfully sUbm~
~~CL c:L
Recording Secretary
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