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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP February 4, 1999 ('(j'(YUA· :J1 / If J q.q CITY of ANDOVER SPECIAL JOINT ANDOVER CITY COUNCIVPARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING - FEBRUARY 4,1999 - MINUTES A Special Joint Meeting of the Andover City Council and Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Mayor Jack McKelvey on February 4, 1999,7:04 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Julie Johnson (left at 9:20 p.m.), Mike Knight, Ken Orttel Councilmembers absent: None Park and Recreation Commissioners present: Chairperson Dave Blackstad, Tom Anderson (arrived at 7:22 p.m.), Brian Barringer (arrived at 7:22 p.m.), Jeff Kieffer (arrived at 9:08 p.m.), Al Grabowski, Jim Lindahl, Dave O'Toole Park and Recreation Commissioners absent: None Also present: Public Works Superintendent, Frank Stone Assistant City Engineer, Todd Haas Others DISCUSS NEW WELL AT HAWKRIDGE PARK/IP99-2 Mr. Haas explained there have been discussions in the past to construct a well at HawkRidge park. The well would facilitate in fighting fires for both Andover and Oak Grove, which could potentially help with insurance ratings, plus would be used to flood the skating rinks in the winter. In the future it could also be used to irrigate the fields in the park. E. H. Renner has estimated a cost of $ I 0,000 to $15,000 to construct the well itself. There is no problem with the supply of water in the ground. The City has a storage tank in Pumphouse # I that currently is not being used. That tank could be relocated to be used in conjunction with the well at HawkRidge. Staff has invited representatives from Oak Grove to attend several meetings, but no one has attended to date. The discussion was on what would be needed besides the well itself. Fire Chief Dan Winkel stated it is hard to put a value on a well at that location, but it would be a nice convenience for them. The Council and Commission will have to evaluate the costs. It may help to lower the ISO rating. They will be doing their ISO testing this spring. The well would be considered an alternate source, plus a tank in the ground and a minimum pump size of 500 gallons per minute would be needed. Chairperson Blackstad explained HawkRidge is a regional park. The hope would be to make the fields usable and possibly add bathroom facilities. Mr. Stone stated HawkRidge is one of the busiest parks in both the summer and the winter. Public Works hauls two loads of water per day to the ice rinks in the winter. ., .-. · Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - February 4. 1999 Page 2 (Discuss New Well at HawkRidge Park/1P99-2, Continued) The Council felt that the City of Oak Grove would also benefit from a welJ at that location and should be involved in the discussions and financing a portion of it. They felt they could not make any commitment at this time without having more detail on the costs and funding sources. (Commissioners Anderson and Barringer arrived at this time, 7:22 p.m.) Mr. Haas agreed to get estimates on the cost to refurbish and move the tank at Pumphouse #1, the cost for the controls, etc., and bring them back to the Council and the Commission. DISCUSS PROPOSED ORDINANCE 10, SECTION 9.07/PARK DEDICATION REQUIREMENTS Commissioner Grabowski reviewed the research he did on how other cities detennine residential park dedication and commerciaJIindustrial park dedication. Only three of the 25 cities use a method similar to Andover's current ordinance for residential developments. The others are using a per-unit schedule when cash is dedicated in lieu of land. Many still use 10 percent if land only is dedicated, but some base it on a density formula. Many cities base the park dedication for commercial and industrial development per acre of development. Commissioner Grabowski stated the Commission is suggesting the ordinance be amended relating to residential developments when cash is dedicated in lieu of land. BasicalJy a single family residence and lot splits would be charged $1,350 per unit; multiples, $1,000 per unit; and mobile homes, $ I ,200 per unit. The proposal for land dedication requirements for residential only would be based on density. They are also proposing a formula for a combination of cash and land dedication. Cash in lieu of land dedicated for commercial and industrial development would be charged $4,000 per acre. He noted the $ I ,350 may seem high right now, but the intent is that figure would be in place for several years rather than changing the figure every year. Chairperson Blackstad stated they have compared the proposal to what was currently done for park dedication over the past few years. BasicalJy the rural plats may end up paying less, but the higher density residential developments would pay considerably more. Shadowbrook 3rd, which has 59 lots, paid $42,000 but would have paid $79,000 under the new fonnula. The justification is the more units per development, the greater the impact is on the park system and the City in general. Chesterton Commons, 198 units, paid $125,000 for park dedication. It would have paid $267,000 under the new fonnula. Mayor McKelvey stated he called some cities regarding their park dedication. He found that Blaine charges $818 per unit; Ramsey, $975, Brooklyn Park, $900; and Maple Grove and Dayton, $1100. His concern is that the proposal of$I,350 per unit would put Andover at the top three or four cities in the metropolitan area for park dedication. While he is in favor of the per unit fonnula, he would -" ~, ~_.___~~.. __. _..__ ~_ _. h .._ . _. ..." Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - February 4, 1999 Page 3 (Discuss Proposed Ordinance 10, Section 9. 09/Park Dedication Requirements, Continued) be interested in a figure closer to $ I ,000 per unit. Councilmember Jacobson noted the Attorney's letter which states that the courts have upheld the 10 percent figure for park dedication. Now a number must be determined for the per-unit formula that is in line with that. Councilmember Orttel noted that some cities use an average fee and index it each year. It is difficult to average the land sales in Andover because of the diversity of the land. In keeping to the 10 percent, he thought a better indicator would be how the fee relates to the land value. One could also argue that there should be a different system between the rural and urban residential developments, as those in the ruraJ area do not tend to impact the park system as much. The Council generally liked the per-unit concept for park dedication and suggested the Planning and Zoning Commission hold a public hearing on the proposed changes. They did not agree to a specific fee per unit for either residential or commercial developments at this time, thinking that should be done after hearing the testimony at the public hearing. Any fee schedule should be outside of the ordinance and indexed annually. They also suggested the Park and Recreation Commission look at the proposed fees again and refine them before the public hearing. Motion by Knight, Seconded by Jacobson, to pass this on to the P & Z for a public hearing on park dedication fees and for the Park Board to prepare their material to take to the public hearing. Motion carried unanimously. DISCUSS AMENDMENT TO DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT IN REGARD TO COMP TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM FOR BIKEWAYIWALKWAY TRAILS Chairperson Blackstad explained the Commission feels those bikeways and walkways that are constructed along county roads or MSA streets are really a part of the transportation system and should not be paid for from the park's budget or park dedication funds. Currently the City has been paying for those trails on a 50-50 basis with the developer. The Commission is willing to contribute toward any trails within the plats on a 50-50 cost split with the developer. Commissioner O'Toole also stated that the trails along major roads are health and safety issues for the citizens. It is a transportation issue for the safety of the citizens, not a recreational issue. The Council discussed the issue with the Commission. The sentiment of the Council was to look at those trails along major roadways as transportation issues as opposed to recreational trails, though there may be some element of recreation to them. It was suggested the park share should be less than 50 percent along those major roads. The remainder should be paid by the developer and possibly from MSA funds. They asked that the City Attorney look at the definition of transportation and the legality of what is being discussed and submit a report for the next City Council meeting. - " ~ _.~_ ___4·_ ------ ----~- .- -.- . - . ----" ~. -..-. _. "'.- Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - February 4. 1999 Page 4 DISCUSS AMENDMENT TO ASSESSMENT MANUAVPARKS Chairperson Blackstad stated the Park Department is being charged $ 18,000 to $25,000 in assessments for various projects. It is the Commission's opinion the parks should be available for the residents and that the money from Capital Improvements and Park Dedication should be going for park development, not for assessments. They would like the assessment manual clarified so assessments would be paid from the General Fund and not be the Commission's responsibility from the allocated Park Capital Improvement Budget or from park dedication funds. Mr. Haas stated in talking with the Finance Director again, those assessments are not coming out of the park capital budget but they will be shown in the Park budget because it is a park debt. It does not diminish the amount available for improvements. Parks is a part of the General Fund budget. The Council noted this is no longer an issue. DISCUSS VARIOUS GRANT PROGRAMS A VAlLABLE FOR 1999 ROUND Mr. Haas stated a number of grants may be available to the City. He asked the Council if they were interesting in applying for any of them, understanding that if approved, they would be willing to match those grants. In discussing the issue, the Park Board and Council generally felt there is a lot of public support for the trail system and that efforts should be made to extend it, especially to Kelsey-Round Lake Park. Discussion was on the problem of completing the trail between Hanson Boulevard and Crosstown Boulevard. From Crosstown Boulevard west, it was suggested the best location for the trail may be along the north side of Coon Creek. The Commission also noted the desire to complete Phase 3 of Kelsey-Round Lake Park. Mr. Haas thought the TII grant could be used to construct an underpass at the railroad tracks to the Bunker Hills park. In that grant, the federal govemment pays 80 percent, the City would pay 20 percent. The council suggested Mr. Haas apply for the TI I grant for the underpass to Bunker Hills Park and to apply for the Cooperative Trail Linkage Program. They asked that the Park Board make a recommendation on what portion of the trail would be constructed with the grant monies. They also agreed application should be made for an Outdoor Recreation Grant for Phase 3 of Kelsey-Round Lake Park. DISCUSS CROOKED LAKE BOAT LANDING Mr. Haas explained the problem of trying to keep the ramp accessible for boats. The lake has silted in around the boat landing on the north end. Staff has had some discussions with the City of Coon Rapids about moving the boat access to their existing park on the east side of the lake. Their Staff is saying it is a good idea, but the adjacent neighborhood is not in favor. The DNR will only allow Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - February 4, 1999 Page 5 (Discuss Crooked Lake Boat Landing, Continued) 60 yards around the ramp to be dredged without a permit. Mr. Stone stated the landing is very mucky. The DNR is concerned with punching a hole in the bottom of the lake if too much silt is removed. The park will also be smaller with the widening of Bunker Lake Boulevard this summer. The question is whether the Council agrees with the proposal to move the landing to Coon Rapids. If so, the Coon Rapids Staff will then present the proposal to their Council. The Council generally agreed with moving the boat landing to the Coon Rapids park if that City is agreeable. DISCUSS FIVE-YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN/CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT REPLACEMENT PLAN Chairperson Blackstad noted the capital improvement plans basically includes items from the proposed bond referendum. He also explained that some of the parks are getting old, and they need to start a capital improvement budget to replace that equipment. He felt that the 2 I to 25 parks with equipment should be scheduled for replacement equipment every eight to ten years. It costs about $40,000 to $45,000 to refurbish a park. Two to three parks per year would need to be done to keep up. Money received for park dedication would then go toward park development and new construction. Commissioner O'Toole wondered if the replacement equipment could be bonded for along with the other equipment that is bonded for by the City. Councilmember Orttel thought equipment bonds must be for moving equipment, not playground equipment. He also noted an additional expense in the future will be the maintenance of the trails such as patrol, mowing, sealcoating, overlaying, etc. The Council suggested the Commission determine a realistic dollar amount to be budgeted each year for replacement equipment. They also asked for a rotation schedule of which parks would be done when. Mr. Stone stated he would also provide an inventory of each park for the Council. (Commissioner Kieffer arrived at this time, 9:08 p.m.) DISCUSS 138TH A VENUE NWIREDEVELOPMENT OF THE AREA Mr. Haas explained the playground equipment in the 138th A venue park needs to be replaced. It is one of the worst parks Public Works has to deal with. The Commission would like to replace the equipment; however, if that area is to be redeveloped, the money should not be spent on improving the park now. The Council noted if the City proceeds with the redevelopment of that area, it would not happen in a short time. . . .-, --_._- ----.-..-. _. -~. Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - February 4. 1999 Page 6 DISCUSS POLICY ON MAINTENANCE OF OUTLOTS/PARKS BY THE PUBLIC Chairperson Blackstad stated the Commission was concerned over the discussion with the residents of Emerald Glen regarding the care of the outlot by the residents. Mowing public property and improvements such as a bridge are a liability to the City. The Commission is suggesting some policy be adopted. If the residents use power equipment, the City is liable. If extra insurance is needed, who pays for it? Mr. Stone stated those residents never came to the City with a plan. The Council said they could maintain the outlot if the insurance was in place. The concern is when the residents along the Coon Creek trail mow their lots down to the trail. They are mowing on park property which is supposed to be left natural. Public Works doesn't care about the maintenance of the outlots by residents as long as they don't put items in the way of their maintenance of the outlot. Councilmember Orttel stated if a resident is on City property and hurts someone, there are two sources -- the City's insurance and the resident's. It is a procedure that should be written to allow for a reasonable contribution by the public and at the same time protect the City. He also noted that the residents should bring in a plan of what they plan to do so the Engineering Department and Public Works can look at it and approve it. Councilmember Knight felt the philosophy of having people involved in their own neighborhood is a good one. He didn't know about the liability issue when people adopt highways and parks. Councilmember Orttel stated he would check on the liability coverage and whether the City has enough coverage. He too did not want to keep people from taking an interest in their neighborhoods, nor does he want to complicate it too much. (Councilmember Johnson left the meeting at this time, 9:20 p.m.) DISCUSS FAILURE OF 1998 PARK BOND REFERENDUM/IP98-18 Chairperson Blackstad felt the failure of the bond referendum could have been for several reasons. It may have been too much money or that people didn't understand other taxes were being taken off their properties. Councilmember Jacobson thought it was too much money and that people don't want their taxes increased any more. Councilmember Orttel thought there was not enough passive activities. Not many bond issues were approved; but the referendum in Woodbury to buy open spaces did pass. He felt that is a concept the Park Board may want to pursue. Also, bond issues need to be sold to the residents. The residents need to be convinced they want the projects. Mayor McKelvey also felt the amount of the request was high and that not enough advertising was done. Councilmember Knight stated the feedback he got was the residents didn't perceive a need. Commissioner O'Toole asked if the Council would be interested in trying the bond referendum again. Councilmember Orttel felt if it is done, it should be at the general election. He thought the .. Special Joint Andover City Council/Park and Recreation Commission Meeting Minutes - February 4. 1999 Page 7 (Discuss Failure of 1998 Park Bond Referendum/lP98-18, Continued) residents generally feel the City has a good park system. The project needs to be sold and supported by people who benefit. If a community center goes forward, it may be at about the same time as a park bond referendum. Commissioner Grabowski reported on a survey done for the City of Champlin. There is a 12-page summary on the results. He is willing to get a copy of that summary for the Commission and Council. Councilmember Orttel indicated the City may need to have a professional survey done as well. No further decisions were made this evening. CITY MAINTENANCE OF THE BALL FIELDS AT THE SCHOOLS Mr. Stone stated the director of softball for the youth is working with District I I to use the fields at Crooked Lake School and Andover Elementary over the summer. In talking with the school district, they would bring in lime to the fields, but asked that the City level it and then maintain the fields during the summer. It would take about a day to level the fields, and they would maintain the fields about one day a week throughout the ball season. The school district doesn't mow or maintain the fields during the summer. Chairperson BIackstad stated the Cities of Anoka and Coon Rapids do take care of the school fields in the summer. Motion by Orttel, Seconded by Knight, that the Council authorizes the Public Works Department to maintain the ball fields owned by the school district and used by the athletic association. DISCUSSION: Councilmember Jacobson didn't think he had enough information at this point to consider this. Does the Park Board have an agreement with the school district in writing? He asked that the item be brought to the next regular Council meeting. Chairperson Blackstad stated he will check with the cities of Anoka and Coon Rapids. Mr. Stone stated he will obtain a letter from the school district granting the City pennission to maintain those fields. Councilmembers Knight and Orttel withdrew the Second and the Motion. Staff agreed to bring the item back to the City Council with some cost figures. Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried on a 4-Yes, I-Absent (Johnson) vote. The meeting adjourned at 9:44 p.m. Respectfully sUbm~ ~~CL c:L Recording Secretary ~ . ~ . 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