HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP June 2, 1993
~ CITY of ANDOVER
Special City Council Meeting - June 2, 1993
Call to Order - 7:30 P.M.
I. Information Meeting - 93-9
2.
3 . Adjourn
SPECIAL ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL MEETING - JUNE 2, 1993
TABLE OF CONTENTS
INFORMATIONAL MEETING - PROJECT IP93-9 · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1
SUPPLEMENTAL FEASIBILITY REPORT/WEYBRIDGE 3RD ADDITION/IP92-19 · 6
OTHER BUSINESS
Trees/Grace Lutheran Church · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
Administration . . . . . . . · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
ADJOURNMENT . . . . . . . . . . . · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
~ CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING - JUNE 2, 1993
MINUTES
A Special Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by
Mayor Jack MCKelvey on June 2, 1993, 7:30 p.m., at the Andover City
Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present: Dalien, Jacobson, Knight, Perry
Councilmembers absent: None
Also present: TKDA Engineer, John Davidson
TKDA Hydrologist, Dan Fabian
Assistant City Engineer, Todd Haas
Others
INFORMATIONAL MEETING - PROJECT IP93-9
Mr. Davidson reported on the background of the storm sewer development
in the general area from Coon Creek north to Crosstown Boulevard between
Hanson Boulevard and the railroad tracks. This project proposes to
construct a trunk storm sewer line from the existing pond in the Oak
Bluff Addition to the regional pond on the south side of Andover
Boulevard NW. A series of ponds will also be interconnected from the
developments into this system. Several areas were already assessed
$0.04 per square foot, and the proposal is to assess those areas
benefitting by this project that same amount for trunk storm sewer and
ponding facilities.
Mr. Davidson explained the ponds are usually done with the subdivision
and are areas intended for water to the 100-year event to prevent the
flooding of homes even though there may be no water in them now. All
ponds must have an outlet, as land-locked ponds are not allowed. The
total cost of this system is paid for by benefiting properties, not by
a general tax to the residents. The platted area which had not been
assessed for storm sewer is oak Bluff 1st Addition. The Council will
need to decide whether or not to included that Addition in the
assessment.
Stan Jorqenson, 1248 148th Lane NW - stated Oak Bluff has three holding
ponds designed to hold the water. The holding pond in question for this
project is a part of his property. He asked if now he could fill in
that pond so he doesn't have the hole in his yard. Mr. Davidson stated
no, that everybody's water goes into the system.
Several residents disagreed, arguing Oak Bluff has three holding ponds
that are self-contained, that do not run into any of the other ponds.
They did not feel they should be assessed when they are not contributing
to the system. They also argued it would be impossible for the amount
of drainage to the pond to fill it any where close to the line. Mr.
Davidson explained the pond will have to be controlled when the land to
the north develops, as there cannot be a land-locked pond.
J'(I)~~~Jn bf6JC¡3
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - June 2, 1993
Page 2
(Informational Meeting - IP93-9, Continued)
Chuck Moerke, 1237 148th Lane NW - stated the pond in Oak Bluff is below
the 100-year flood. Is the City expecting six more feet of water in it?
If not, he questioned why it needs to be drained and controlled. The
most he saw the pond rise is 1 1/2 feet and that was only because the
City pumped water into during a project.
Tom Anderson, 12690 148th Lane NW - asked why the ponds on the Holasek
property aren't drained directly rather than going through the Oak Bluff
pond. Mr. Davidson explained the Oak Bluff pond is needed for storage.
A resident then countered why should they have to pay for it when they
already have their storage. Mr. Davidson explained it is a total
drainage system with all ponds interconnected. Everyone in the system
is being charged the same.
Paul Kuehl, 1325 148th Lane NW - felt the level of the pond in Oak Bluff
would never raise to capacity no matter how much it rained. Other
residents also voiced their opinions that that pond does not need to be
controlled, that it was there before the other developments, and that it
is the other developments that need the pond and not them in Oak Bluff
1st. Mr. Davidson stated the proposal is that the pond would provide
a bounce of 2 1/2 feet in the 100-year event.
Lvnn Barrv, 14436 Xeon Street NW - asked why she is being assessed to
control a pond that is so far from her. Her lot abuts the regional
pond. Mr. Davidson explained that area was assessed at the time of
development and will not be assessed for this project. Those in her
area were made aware of this meeting for informational purposes only.
? ,1211 Andover Boulevard - asked why a 30-inch pipe is needed. Mr.
Davidson explained that size pipe is needed because of the very flat
grade. The capacity of the pipe is based on the slope of the pipe. His
property drains into the regional pond on Andover Boulevard.
Residents of Oak Bluff 1st asked if this could be prevented, would it
stop development farther up the line and expressed frustration that they
are being asked to pay because of development to the north. Mr.
Davidson stated the pond in Oak Bluff is an existing pond of record
created as a part of the plat and is a part of the entire system.
Art Dunn, 14967 Crane Street NW - asked why the Oak Bluff pond wasn't
drained to Coon Creek and assessed to their subdivision in 1987 when
their development was done. He didn't agree with assessing them now as
a pre-existing plat of record since the Council's position in 1987 was
not to assess pre-existing plats of record.
Sophie Kotlowski, 1021 Crosstown Boulevard NW - asked if she will get
assessed when Mr. Holasek develops his property. She also complained
that her taxes continually increase. Mr. Davidson stated no. As they
plat, they are assessed. Mayor McKelvey pointed out the City taxes
amount to very little. Most of the property taxes are for the county
and the school district.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - June 2, 1993
Page 3
(Informational Meeting - IP93-9, Continued)
Ernie Trettel, 1412 Andover Boulevard - has 40 acres, and an assessment
will run him off of his land. He asked what if he doesn't want to plat.
He questioned what the development in the City has done for them. Mr.
Davidson stated he will not be assessed until he develops his property.
The costs of all improvements -- sewer, water, streets, and storm sewers
-- are all assessed back to the property that is being developed. When
a lot is sold, they pay for the improvements.
There was some discussion on the costs of this improvement versus the
$0.04 per square foot assessment. Residents felt there was a disparity
over the two amounts and questioned where the additional funds would go.
Mr. Davidson did not have the specific details on the costs or
assessments, but he explained that everyone tributary to the system will
be assessed the same amount to cover the cost of the entire storm
drainage system. Any excess in this project would be used to cover the
shortages from previous projects in this system.
Winslow Holasek, 1159 Andover Boulevard NW - stated the assessments
against the 62 acres he is developing will pay for over 50 percent of
the project. Also, about 25 percent of the Oak Bluff pond is on his
land, according to his engineer. Mr. Davidson stated Mr. Holasek has a
100-foot strip along the east side of that pond.
Norman Jo!vhre. 14853 Bluebird Street NW - asked about the amount of the
assessment versus the cost of the project. Mr. Davidson explained the
cost per lot within the Winslow Hills Addition for all of the lateral
benefits and area charges will be about $13,000 per lot.
Mr. Moerke - asked if Oak Bluff 2nd had to be put into the system and
what those costs and assessments were. Mr. Davidson stated they were
assessed. This project is only a part of the overall costs of the
project. He again emphasized the assessment to everyone within the
system has been and continues to be $0.04 per square foot.
Mr. Trettel - asked if he does not develop for 20 years, would the cost
remain the same. Mr. Davidson stated other area charges are adjusted
annually according to the Engineering News Record, but it appears that
this cost is still accurate. It has not been adjusted since 1987.
A resident asked why a pipe would be put down a street when the water
can be channeled to an existing ditch along the railroad tracks. Mr.
Davidson stated it is a private ditch, and it would be more expensive to
create another system through that area than to complete this system.
He also explained the water management laws which now imposes new
requirements of the City with regard to water quality prior to
discharging into Coon Creek. This project deals with known facts, but
there are areas that can still be developed. He predicted the area
north of Crosstown Boulevard would have some kind of ponding and outfall
to retain the water within that area, but some of it will probably
discharge into this system as well. Mr. Fabian stated the majority of
the water north of Crosstown will flow to the Ditch 37 watershed.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - June 2, 1993
Page 4
(Informational Meeting - IP93-9, Continued)
Another resident was against coming to them after-the-fact with a storm
water assessment when they do not have a water problem. The water from
above them is not going into their pond naturally; it is being put
there. He was told in 1987 that he wouldn't be assessed. Mr. Davidson
stated those controls are put in as development occurs. The Council in
1987 didn't assess previous developments for these improvements. Today
they are in the area, and the system is a benefit.
John Streit, 1334 148th Lane NW - stated when he built in 1986, he was
told that there wouldn't be sewer and water until after the turn of the
century. But he didn't even break ground and the assessments came
through. When Oak Bluff was developed, the pond was intended to get rid
of the water. It was approved by the City. Now, after-the-fact, the City
changes its mind, and they are a part of a system that was not
contemplated in 1986. He didn't think that is right. Mr. Davidson stated
the City didn't change its mind. There has been a considerable change
in the rules and regulations of managing water since 1986. The intent
is to protect the residents and at the same time protect the City.
Mr. Streit - stated generally when rules change, the existing things in
place are grandfathered. He saw no reason why Oak Bluff 1st can't be
grandfathered out of paying for something that came after they moved
there.
Mr. Holasek - pointed out that they have constructed adequate on-site
ponding. The City doesn't want land-locked ponds. The pipe is a safety
outlet, but he doubted if any water will come from the north pond. He
also noted developers may not always tell potential residents the truth,
that in fact everybody in Oak Bluff 1st is draining into the Oak Bluff
pond. Many residents disagreed with the last statement. One resident
felt the argument is not that the pond must be drained but that they
shouldn't have to pay for it. Their water is taken care of; and the
only reason it would overflow is if other water comes in. He didn't
feel he should have to pay for someone else's overflow.
Mr. Holasek - stated at the present time the water in that pond ends up
on his land illegally because there is no drainage easement on it. He
also calculated that just his property alone will generate more than the
cost of this project. Mayor McKelvey noted that when the rest of his
property develops, more pipe will be needed between the other ponds.
Mr. Davidson also noted some of the costs for the existing system has
been carried by the City and would be paid for by these assessments.
There is also the cost of borrowing the money.
The Council suggested the engineers look at the Oak Bluff area to see
where the water does flow, to the pond or elsewhere. If they are
excluded, that will be taken into account at the time of the project.
Mr. Jorqenson - asked if those properties affected will be notified as
to whether or not they will be assessed. Mr. Davidson stated that will
be known at the time of the public hearing on June 15, 1993.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - June 2, 1993
Page 5
(Informational Meeting - IP93-9, Continued)
Peter Raatikka, representinq Jerrv Windschitl - asked if this project
will have an impact on the 100-year level on the pond in Weybridge. Mr.
Fabian explained the Weybridge pond will peak before the regional pond
on Andover Boulevard. Weybridge is at 884.6 feet and the regional pond
is at 884.4 feet.
Mr. Davidson explained the two ponds to the north and east will not be
connected at this time. When that development occurs, the developer
will be paying for it. councilmember Jacobson questioned the need to
upgrade Xeon to Class 5 when it is a sand road now. Mr. Davidson stated
it is anticipated that will be a future street, though it will not exit
from the development to the north. The purpose for the Class 5 is to
give it a driving s~rface at this point.
Mr. Anderson - asked if there has been any thought to running the pipe
down Xeon and completely bypassing the Oak Bluff pond. Mr. Davidson
stated they cannot leave that pond land-locked, plus it is needed for
storage. They have done studies which indicate the ground water can
fluctuate as much as eight feet in a year because of the size of the
overall watershed. There is approximately a one-foot drop through each
pond down to Coon Creek.
At this point, Mr. Davidson agreed to survey the topographical maps and
to check the area around Oak Bluff to determine where the storm water
goes. He also agreed to meet with interested residents on site regarding
this issue. Council noted no decision can be made as to whether or not
to assess those in Oak Bluff 1st without knowing that information.
Mr. Streit - stated he was told the developer had put together a good
system for drainage in 1986, and the City agreed to it. He felt all of
Oak Bluff should be exempted from this because it has come after the
fact, even if some areas contribute to the system.
Mr. Trettel - didn't see that he would be getting any benefit if
assessed, even if he was developing. Mr. Davidson explained he is not
being assessed at this time, then outlined the requirements relating to
storm sewer when he chooses to develop. All charges to the developer
are documented.
Mr. Trettel - asked if he would be charged the same if he developed into
2 1/2-acre lots. Mr. Davidson stated his property is within the MUSA
where rural lots are not allowed. The system is being designed to take
care of development within the boundary as it occurs.
It was agreed that the issue of the assessment for Oak Bluff 1st
Addition will be considered at the public hearing on June 15, 1993, at
which time the engineers will have greater detail on the drainage in
that area plus more information on the costs and assessments of the
entire drainage system.
The Council recessed at 8:57; reconvened at 9:12 p.m.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - June 2, 1993
Page 6
SUPPLEMENTAL FEASIBILITY REPORT/WEYBRIDGE 3RD ADDITION/IP92-19
Mr. Davidson reviewed the background on the development of the phases of
the Weybridge plats, the changes made at the request of the developer,
and the proposed changes being made. A portion of the Weybridge 3rd
Addition will be included in the storm water assessment of the $0.04 per
square foot.
Mr. Davidson stated there appears to be three issues. First, because
there wasn't enough clearance between the storm sewer and the sanitary
sewer, some changes have been made on Vale to provide as much depth as
possible for the sanitary sewer. The effect is the developer will have
to raise the benches on Lots 26 and 27 by one to two feet. He preferred
the construction as shown in the supplemental report. The developer,
Mr. Windschitl, disagress. He has graded to the grading plan.
Peter Raatikka... Hakanson Anderson Associates, representinq Mr.
Wind~chitl - thought four to five lots would be affected by as much as
three feet. That is why they preferred to see the sanitary sewer come
up Wintergreen and to the east.
The Council wanted the option that provided the greatest protection to
both the City and the residents. It is up to the City to make that
determination, and the Council relies on the engineering firm to provide
that information.
Mr. Davidson stated the second issue is that of the l2-inch watermain
extending along Andover Boulevard. The developer to the west paid the
assessment for an 8-inch line to the east property line. The City picks
up the difference between the 8-inch and the oversizing. The proposal
now is to extend that 12-inch line to the east edge of Mr. Windschitl's
property and assess him the same. Mr. Windschitl suggested that rather
than duplicate the lines, that the main be brought down to serve his
lots, then back north on Vale, then leave out the 12-inch line along
Andover Boulevard. The City's costs increase under Mr. Windschitl's
proposal. With a cost difference to the developer of only $1,700 for
the line along Andover Blvd. versus a cost increase of $3,600 to the
City for the developer's suggestion, Mr. Davidson didn't think it was
worth running the line through the easements between lots. He suggested
the plans be left the way it was originally done in the feasibility. He
has also suggested to the developer that he grade the rear of the lots
abutting Andover Blvd. such that it would have a wider shoulder. Then
when the county improves the road, the ditch is defined along the back
of those lots and drains through the storm sewer already in place.
Mr. Davidson stated the third issue is the storm sewer on the corner of
Xeon and Andover Blvd. When the developer graded the backs of the lots,
he extended the pipe and created a beehive. The ditch is still rather
steep. The county has advised the City that they would have to fill the
ditch because it is too steep. He is proposing that the pipe be extended
back to t.he end of the rear lot line and then regrade the ditch to
follow into that end apron. He will check with the county to see if
they will provide the culvert: at VaJ.e.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - June 2, 1993
page 7
(Supplemental Feasibility Report/Weybridge 3rd/IP92-19, continued)
The Council again felt that the outcomes should be whatever is best for
the City, and that they trusted and backed the decisions of the City
Staff and consulting engineers. Mr. Davidson stated the developer has
requested that everything be in writing prior to the approval of the
supplemental feasibility report. Council agreed.
Mr. Raatikka - stated Mr. Windschitl wants to be treated the same as any
other developer. The grading plans were approved with the elevation and
pipe sizes, and things are being changed. Mr. Windschitl feels he has
an approved plan, and now there are some changes to the county road.
Maybe someone else should be paying for it. Maybe it should be part of
the trunk fund. Mr. Windschitl talked with Mr. Schrantz regarding the
watermain and there are Minutes that state that as long as he has
internal looping, he would not need the trunk watermain. He would not
have a problem paying if he had lateral benefit, but in this case there
is none. Mr. Raatikka didn't know the policy in this case. He'd like
everything resolved before going ahead with the project. Council
agreed, but again noted they must go along with the recommendations of
those individuals who have been hired to protect the City's interests.
Mr. Raatikka - would agree as long as it follows the standards of the
City. The key issue is if the polices are the same for everybody. The
Council didn't feel there was a question about that, that the
engineering firm and City have been very, very conscientious about
following policy. No further action was taken.
OTHER BUSINESS
Trees/Grace Lutheran Church - Mayor McKelvey stated the trees have been
planted on the berm along the southern edge of the church property.
They are five- to six-foot white pines. He also noted the county is
aware of the agreement and that a change needs to be made to the Joint
Powers Agreement approved with the county for this project. The church
would also like a written agreement regarding their understanding of the
situation. Council suggested a copy of the Minutes of the June 1, 1993,
Minutes be forwarded to the church. They also agreed to consider a
motion regarding the agreements at the June 15 meeting.
Administration - Mayor McKelvey noted the last time Mr. Schrantz was on
leave, the Council appointed the Finance Director as second in command
to handle personnel. He recommended the Council direct Mr. Sulander to
be in charge of the personnel in the absence of the Administrator.
Council agreed and asked for a resolution at the June 15 meeting.
MOTION by Dalien, Seconded by Perry, to adjourn. Motion carried
unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 10:03 p.m.
\~~~~
Ma cella A. p~, ~cording Secretary