HomeMy WebLinkAboutJCC October 27, 1993
~ CITY of ANDOVER
ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL AND ANDOVER AUTO RECYCLING/JUNK YARD TASK FORCE
JOINT MEETING - OCTOBER 27, 1993
MINUTES
A Joint Meeting of the Andover City Council and the Andover Auto
Recycling/Junk Yard Task Force was called to order by Mayor Jack
McKelvey on October 27, 1993, 7:35 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685
Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers
present: Councilmember Larry Dalien
Councilmember Don Jacobson
Councilmember Mike Knight
Councilmember
absent: Councilmember Marge Perry
Members present: Andover Auto Recyclers Association members -
Penny DeNucci - Anoka Auto Wrecking
JoAnne Wilber - wilber's Auto Parts
Planning commission Chairperson, Bonnie Dehn
Economic Development Committee member, Mike Auger
Members absent: Planning Commission member, Jay Squires
Economic Development Committee member, Bill Coleman
Andover Auto Recyclers Association member - Harry
Haluptzok - Best Auto Parts
Also present: City Planner, Dave Carlberg
Others
DISCUSSION WITH MPCA REPRESENTATIVES
Gene Soderbeck and Dan Wells - from the Minnesota Pollution Control
Agency addressed the members regarding the National Pollutant Discharge
Eliminate System (NPDES) Storm Water Permit Program. Mr. Soderbeck
reviewed the legislation leading up to the program, that is the 1972
Clean Water Act and the 1987 amendments to that Act having to do with
storm water. They are looking at point source discharges for both
industries and municipalities. The goal of the EPA was to control storm
water run off and the pollutants associated with it, which is the reason
for the NPDES Permit. Because only cities of over 100,000 population
were required to submit the permit, the only cities in Minnesota that
are required to do so are Minneapolis and St. Paul. The EPA identified
over 500 indus~rial-type activities and required that any industry that
had storm water coming in contact with significant material stored
outside must submit the NPDES Storm Water Permit by October, 1992. In
Minnesota, the MPCA is handling the program. At this time, the same
permit is used for all types of industrial activities. The industries
are then to implement a program to prevent that contact with significant
material stored outside. That can either be done by either covering the
material or by containing all storm water on site.
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Andover City Council/Auto Recycling Task Force - Joint Meeting
Minutes - October 27, 1993
Page 2
(Discussion with MPCA Representatives, Continued)
Mr. Soderbeck then explained the industries then have one year from the
date of issuance of the permit to implement practices and certify the
implementation of those practices. The permit is a general one, but he
recognized the auto recyclers are a unique facility. They are a
critical component in the whole recycling concept the State is trying to
implement, but they do pose a lot of environmental threats. The
practices being suggested for the auto recyclers is to have an oil or
fluid area, to look at the storage of the fluids, and to have a specific
area to dismantle to minimize releasing the contaminates into the soil.
It would be a benefit to have a covered area for dismantling to
eliminate the infiltration currently taking place. Just installing a
storm water retention pond doesn't take care of the infiltration
problem. By issuing this permit, they can eliminate the current practice
in auto recycling yards of disassembling by having these things done in
an enclosed building. Furthermore, when a building is constructed, the
contaminated soils are removed without having to use Superfund monies.
Mr. Wells related an example of an auto recycling yard in southern
Minnesota implementing these practices, taking a pro-active step to
reduce storm water contamination. There was discussion with the MPCA
representatives as to the agency's role in doing inspections and their
recommendations for auto recycling industries. Mr. Soderbeck explained
the second phase requires the industries to implement their practices
and to certify it to their agency. Because of the limited budget, most
will not be inspected. What they have learned, however, is that what
works for some industries may not be suitable for others. This is still
a learning process, and they are listening to the industries who are
making good suggestions. They see the direction as tailoring the permits
to specific categories of industries. At this time they do not have any
specific requirements for the auto recycling industries, which is one of
the higher risk industries for storm water contamination. They will be
using the plan developed by John's Auto parts in Blaine as a model.
Mr. Soderbeck estimated that it would be about a year and a half before
specific requirements for auto recyclers will be in place. In the mean
time, he encouraged the enactment of any pro-active plan immediately.
He explained that the storage of parts inside also reduces
contamination; because if it is stored outside, there is always some
residue that eventually ends up in the soil. The next step of the
permit will be more explicit and may require the removal of discolored
soils first.
Ms. Wilber stated they are trying to practice the best management
practices now, and that is the reason they are asking for dismantling
buildings and places to store their parts. It is also safer for their
employees to dismantle inside because all power equipment would be used.
She believed one of her employees would not have been injured last week
if the dismantling would have been done inside, so it is also a safety
issue for their employees. Almost everyone is willing to comply with
the regulations to be able to dismantle and store within buildings.
They see the requirement coming, and they would like to begin now.
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Andover City Council/Auto Recycling Task Force - Joint Meeting
Minutes - October 27, 1993
Page 3
(Discussion with MPCA Representatives, Continued)
Mr. Soderbeck stated everyone wins if the current practice of recycling
which causes an environmental hazard now is changed. Under this
proposal, remediation takes place at the same time business is taking
place. Otherwise the businesses would have to be closed and would end
up in Superfund activities. Mayor McKelvey explained the situation at
a point is either waiting until the State comes forth with its
regulations or becoming innovative and allow the Andover recyclers to
move ahead environmentally. It was his opinion that the City should
move in the direction of best management practices now, using John's
Auto Parts in Blaine as the prime example, for both environmental
reasons and for the beautification of the City.
Mr. Soderbeck stated 75 to 90 percent of all pollutants result in the
disassembly area of the recyclers. Just putting a cover over that area
reduces the amount of pollutants by that much. Mr. Wells felt it is
safe to say that that requirement is eventually coming. Councilmember
Jacobson didn't think the Council had a problem with dismantling inside,
but more with the fact that the yards are nonconforming now and also
with the storage of parts inside versus the reduction in the size of the
outdoor storage.
DISCUSSION: PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO ALLOW ENVIRONMENTAL AND STORAGE
BUILDINGS
Mr. Soderbeck and Mr. Wells left the meeting at this time, after which
the Council and Task Force discussed the two concerns brought up by
Councilmember Jacobson. Ms. Wilber stated that John's Auto Parts does
dismantling and storage of parts inside, but there is still 14 acres of
cars outside. The parts that cannot be stored inside must be put
outside, plus they still need so many cars for customers to pick the
parts from. plus they need storage for cars as they are brought in
because all cars brought in cannot be dismantled at once. The carcasses
are actually a commodity and are crushed and moved out when the price is
high, crushed and stored when the price is low. The question is how
much they would be required to reduce the size. She questioned the
equity of requiring those with larger acreages to reduce their outside
storage, yet what happens to those yards that have very little storage
now? The other question is what do they do with their property once it
is cleared of carcasses? She would still have to pay taxes on it but
would not be allowed to use it for her business.
Ms. Wilber also noted that she is required to have insurance on her
buildings; yet according to the ordinance, she would not be able to
rebuild them if they were destroyed. The nonconformance status also
raises questions with the ability to get mortgages on the buildings.
Mayor McKelvey felt there is a greater potential for development of the
rear portion of Anoka Auto Wrecking within the near future. The rear
portions of Wilber's and Commercial's would not be developable until
Commercial Boulevard is put through with another street constructed to
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Andover City Council/Auto Recycling Task Force - Joint Meeting
Minutes - October 27, 1993
Page 4
(Discussion: Proposed Amendment, Continued)
the north to Bunker Lake Boulevard behind those recycling yards. The
timetable for that proposal is not known. He didn't think the size of
the yards could be reduced without having the buildings to store the
parts. He suggested the City first takes the initiative to allow the
recyclers to construct the buildings, which becomes a benefit to the
City environmentally and aesthetically. Then the size of the yards
could be reduced, say by 25 percent. The placement of the buildings
could be such to provide a buffer. Between the buildings and berming,
the Mayor felt the yards could be satisfactorily buffered to improve the
area aesthetically.
Councilmember Knight felt the greatest dilemma is the aesthetics of the
recycling area. He would like to see the size reduced when the parts
are stored inside. Mr. Auger asked if the City really wants to
accomplish replacing the yards with tax-paying industrial property. By
allowing the buildings, the lives of those businesses are being
extended. Mayor MCKelvey felt that some of the existing yards will be
replaced, as eight yards are not needed; but he didn't believe all of
the yards must be replaced.
Mr. Carlberg asked by allowing the environmental buildings to be
reconstructed if destroyed, would the City also allow all other
buildings to be reconstructed as well? The original goal was a
redevelopment of this area, which means a change in uses. This allows
those same uses to remain. He thought the City Attorney was addressing
the environmental buildings only when he advised they could be allowed
to be reconstructed if destroyed, but that he was not looking at the
yards themselves. Mayor McKelvey didn't think it made much sense to
allow the environmental buildings to be reconstructed but not the office
buildings. He also did not get the same impression from the City
Attorney on the reconstruction of buildings.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the proposed changes allows the
reconstruction of buildings if destroyed and allows the construction of
structures to remove, drain and dismantle cars and storage of parts
inside. It doesn't change anything else. If destroyed, however, the
reconstruction must meet all existing codes of the City. Mayor
McKelvey interpreted it as allowing reconstruction of all buildings, not
just the environmental ones. The recyclers have already agreed to meet
existing codes for construction of new buildings and reconstruction if
estroyed.
Ms. DeNucci agreed, stating she has also agreed to place a new front on
their older buildings before constructing the new environmental
buildings. Ms. Wilber also agreed that if destroyed, new or old
buildings, they would be rebuilt to meet the current standards.
Councilmember Jacobson stated in the beginning the discussion was on
environmental buildings for dismantling, which he thought no one
objected to. Now it has expanded to buildings for storage of parts, and
he questioned the need to regulate the size and the storage of hazardous
material, adding that verbiage into the proposed amendment. Ms. DeNucci
Andover City Council/Auto Recycling Task Force - Joint Meeting
Minutes - October 27, 1993
Page 5
(Discussion: Proposed Amendment, Continued)
explained that was added because the City stressed the reduction of the
size of the yards. The only way they can do that is by warehousing the
parts. Mr. Carlberg stated the size is already regulated by the Zoning
Ordinance in regard to coverage of the property. The hazardous material
is regulated by the county. Several people representing the recylcers
explained the county license, which every yard should have, and the
regulations involved, noting they keep track of every gallon of fluid,
every battery, every tire.
Mr. Carlberg proposed Ordinance 44 be amended to require the junkyards
to show proof of having a hazardous waste license from Anoka County
before obtaining their yearly city license. Councilmember Jacobson also
suggested a reference be made to the Zoning Ordinance in the proposed
amendment in regard to the construction of buildings.
Councilmember Jacobson was also concerned with the phrase in the
proposed amendment that if destroyed over 50 percent, the building can
be reconstructed upon the approval of the City Council. What criteria
would the Council use to approve it? He felt it is too vague. Either
define it or take it out. Mayor McKelvey didn't think that decision
should be made by the Council.
Councilmember Jacobson also stated the proposed five-year plan should be
tied to something. Many of the things are already required by
ordinance, so what does the City gain? Ms. Wilber asked what does the
City want. Councilmember Knight thought to reduce the size of the
yards. Ms. Wilber again asked if it is fair to the larger yards to
reduce when the smaller yards can't? There was then a discussion on
some of the problems seen in some yards with cars parked in the right of
way or parked outside after hours, etc. Ms. DeNucci noted those are
ordinance violations by some yards that the City must address. Those of
them who run a good business and want to improve should not be punished
because others do not comply. It is not their job to make others
comply. They are making an effort to do what the City wants, but they
cannot do it for other people. Mayor McKelvey noted of the three yards
represented this evening, all of them have completed the first phase of
the proposed five-year plan.
Councilmember Jacobson suggested this plan or something everyone can
agree to be tied into a longer-range clean-up or some change in the form
of operation -- specifics the yards and the City agree to and the dates
in exchange for allowing the environmental and storage buildings. Mr.
Wilber stated there are really only two yards that have problems and are
not always in compliance, and a third that is not really being operated.
councilmember Knight felt something must be done to allow the operations
to continue but to curb the sprawling of the storage of vehicles that
makes the area unattractive. He didn't know how that could be done.
Ms. Wilber didn't know either. They have regulations to meet for the
MPCA and EPA, and they'd like some plan that the City would want them to
do that they could work with; but they cannot control the other people
moving into the City.
Andover City Council/Auto Recycling Task Force - Joint Meeting
Minutes - October 27, 1993
Page 6
(Discussion: Proposed Amendment, Continued)
Councilmember Jacobson stated he marked suggested changes on the
proposed amendment and suggested everyone else do the same. Copies of
those changes could be sent to everyone, then meet again to discuss a
final proposal. He is not opposed to the concept of environmental and
storage buildings, but he felt the verbiage has to be accurately stated
in the amendment. There was some discussion on whether the definition
of environmental also includes the warehousing and storage of parts.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the two structures are separated in the
proposed amendment. Ms. DeNucci didn't see a problem with the
definition of environmental including dismantling, removal of fluids,
and warehousing. The Mayor noted everything that is off the ground is
making the area more environmentally sound.
Councilmember Jacobson is not against a building to store parts, but he
again expressed the opinion that the verbiage in the amendment must be
reconsidered and the issue of reduction be addressed. Councilmember
Knight also had no problem with the buildings but would like to see the
sizes reduced as the storage is brought inside. Mr. Carlberg stated the
reduction must be tied to some way for them to utilize the land.
Possibly it could be tied to a specific size reduction within six months
of a public street being constructed.
Ms. Dehn stated some yards would like to do this and others will not
cooperate. She suggested the City set out the criteria a yard must meet
regarding the improvement of the site before getting a building permit
for the environmental and storage buildings if there is a problem with
compliance.
At this point, everyone agreed to submit to Mr. Carlberg suggested
changes and additions to the proposed amendment to Ordinance 44 by
November 5. He will supply all Task Force members with copies of those
recommendations. It was agreed to hold another joint meeting of the
City Council and Auto Recycling Task Force on Thursday, November 18,
1993, 7:30 p.m. at the Public Works Building.
Mayor McKelvey adjourned the meeting at 9:54 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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CJ-V-JL~L cl~cL
Mar ella A. Peach
Recor ing Secretary