HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP July 16, 1987
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@\) CITY of ANDOVER
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304· (612) 755-5100
~ ,.J ,~~y"._~,~5~·_:f SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING - JULY 16, 1987 - AGENDA
7:30 P.M. l. Call to order
2. Public Hearing
a. 7:30 Wobegon Woods - project 87-12
b. 8:30 Forest Meadows Area - Project 87-5
3. Fire Station Presentation/Jim Elling
4. Approval of Minutes
5. Adjournment
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(CA.'" CITY of ANDOVER
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~~$,J¡"'.:;' PUBLIC HEARINGS - JULY 16, 1987
MINUTES
Pursuant to notice published thereof, Public Hearings on the street
improvement projects of Wobegon Woods, Project 87-12, and Forest
Meadows Area, Project 87-5, were called to order by Mayor Jerry
Windschi t1 on July 16, 1987, 7:30 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685
Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Counciimen present: Ell ing, Knight, Orttel
Councilmen absent: None
Also present: BRA Engineer, Glenn Cook; City Administrator,
James Schrantz; and others
WOBEGON WOODS - PROJECT 87-12 PUBLIC HEARING
Mayor Windschitl explained the 429 procedure to those present, noti ng
the City's policy of wanting 51 percent in favor before ordering an
improvement. Mr. Cook then reviewed the feasibility report for the
street improvement project that it wi I I be a rural design with ditches
at an estimated cost of $5,450 for each of the 18 units involved. Mr.
Cook also noted that much of the Class V on the road is contaminated
and it is difficult to rely on that material. Therefore, they feel it
may be necessary to go over the entire area again with four inches of
Class V.
Testimony was then opened to the public.
Ron Conlev. 2924 174th Lane - was concerned that sewer and water
will be put in before long and the tarred roads will need to be torn
up. Mayor Windschitl explained the possibility of getting municipal
sewer to that area Is virtually nonexistent. He reviewed the
limited capacity for sanitary sewer allowed the City, noting the
intent of the large Jots in that area was so that the expense of sewer
and water would not be incurred.
JIm Luderman. J. L. Bui Iders. Lot 1. 3156 174th Lane - asked if the
project were ordered tonight, would it become a pending assessment as
of this date. Mayor Windschitl stated yes.
Mr. Luderman - explained he has constructed a house on Lot 1 and has
a purchase agreement on it. It would hurt him financially i f the
project were ordered this evening. The closing is set for the end of
July, aSking if a decision on the project could be tabled until after
that closing. That would also allow the new owne~s to vote on whethe~
or not they want the improvement. Counc i I considered this item later
in the hearing.
Publ ic Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 2
(Wobegon Woods Street Improvement, 87-12, Continued)
Charlie Wold. 17453 Eidelweiss Court. Lot 6. Block 2 - was concerned
that the amount of money was considerable and wanted to make sure they
have quality workmanship and value. Some changes he'd like to see
would be to have sod on the shoulders rather than Class V or seeding.
Most people maintain their lots to the roadway. Also, the soil is
silty and susceptible to water problems. Mr. Wold also wanted
assurances on the quality of the work done regarding subgrade
excavation, compaction, state-of-the art bituminous paving equipment.
etc.
Mayor Wlnschltl explained the City has taken the position of not
placing sod on the boulevards because of the high cost to the
residents. Residents can generally sod the area much cheaper than the
City can do it for. He asked what the consensus was on sOdding the
boulevards. Mr. Cook stated It would add about $300 per lot for
sodding as opposed to seeding in the project. It was also noted about
half of the lots maintain their yards out to the road. No firm
decision was made on this matter.
Mayor Windschitl also reviewed the cautions taken by the City
regarding contractors, inspections, MNDot specifications followed,
etc. , to assure quality projects. He advised Mr. Wold to review the
plans and specifications for the project if he desires.
Wavne Tonn. 17504 Eidelwelss Court. Lot 4 - asked if curbing is
optional or mandatory. Mr. Schrantz stated there will be no curbing.
It is a rural section with ditches. The road wi II be placed on what
Is there.
Mr. Tonn - stated he has a cement driveway 3/4 of the way. Does he
have the option of getting blacktop to the cement? Mr. Schrantz
stated yes, but he must pay extra to the contractor for that.
Pattv Howard. 2968 174th Lane. Lot 4. Block 3 - asked about the
possibility of getting 174th designated a State Aid street. She said
the road Is used by many others, including the County Sheriff, City
vehicles, school buses, etc. , because it is the only through road
between County Roads 9 and 59. Not only wi I 1 the neighborhood be
benefitted, but the City and county as well. Ms. Howard also felt
safety was an issue, asking if MSA funds could be used toward the
paving of that road.
Counc i I and Engineers reviewed the requirements for MSA roads, not I ng
174th would not meet the state requirement because County Road 59 is
not an MSA street. They also noted an MSA street through there would
change the character of the neighborhood because it would become more
of a thoroughfare type street. Wi th the completion of some
developments to the south and east, there wi 11 be two other cross
streets which should alleviate some of the problems now on 174th.
Publ ic Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 3
(Wobegon Woods Street Improvement, 87-12, Continued)
Karl Metzler. 2824 174th - asked if the sod or seed wili go to where
the stakes are now. Mr. Cook stated the stakes are offset and were
put there temporarily. The specific plans have not been done, so he
cannot rely on those stakes for anything in particular at this time.
Mr. Metzler - asked if it wi] 1 be disturbed beyond the two-foot
shoulder. Mr. Cook stated basically the intent is to stay with the
24-foot roadway with 2-foot shoulders on either side, though there may
be some minor sloping beyond that. He stated they will not do any
more than they have to.
Mr. Metzler - asked if they can vote for a 5- or 10-year assessment
period. Mayor Windschitl stated it would be either one way or the
other for the entire project. Discussion with the residents was on
the pros and cons of 5- and 10-year assessment periods. In a show of
hands, a majority of the residents favored the 10-year assescment.
Mayor Windschitl noted the petition shows 17 in favor of the project
and 1 against, aSking if there are any changes.
Mr. Tonn - stated he is opposed.
Mr. Martini. 17519 Heather - stated he was opposed to the project.
Counc i ] discussed the issue brought up by Mr. Luderman regarding the
sale of the house on Lot 1.
Mr. Luderman - stated the purchase agreement was dated May 20 and
stated the seller is responsible for pending assessments at the date
of closing. Counciiman Orttel though t the conditions have changed
such that there would be legai grounds to renegotiate the contract in
] ight of the street improvement project. He advised checking into
that further.
Mark Luderman - asked if there is a statute or City ordinance
regarding the time period for notification of a hearing such as this.
They did not receive a notification until one week ago, saying it is
hard to plan on such short notice. Mayor Windschitl noted the State
Statute 429 procedure sets forth the time of notification. Mr.
Schrantz stated the City satisfied the law, though some notices came
back and were remailed.
Dennv Banwart. 2876 174th Lane - wondered how long it would be
before construction is begun. Mr. Cook stated it would be about six
weeks. The intent is to compiete construction this season.
Tonv Howard. 2968 174th Lane - with the time period for
notification, he asked why he wasn't notified that 174th was going to
Public Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 4
(Wobegon Woods Street Improvement, 87-12, Continued)
be extended to the east. He had no idea that street was going to go
through. Counc i I and Engineers noted that anyone within 300 feet of a
plat should have been notified. He would not have been notified for
the extension of 174th because he was not being assessed for It.
Mr. Howard - said in looking at the Woodland development east of
Verdin, he saw plans shown that 174th Lane will go through to Hanson
Boulevar-d.
Jim SzvPlewskl. 3937 174th. Lot 2. Block 2 - stated putting 174th
thr-ough to Hanson would make it even more traveled than it is now.
Counc i I discussed that possibility, noting there are some bad soils
from the plat to Hanson Boulevard. More than anything, it was felt
that that would direct the tr-affic from the Woodland development east
to Hanson Boulevard rather- than through the Wobegon Woods Addition.
Mr. Szvolewski - was of the opinion that there is 4 to 5 Inches of
Class V in most places on the road already and that 4 inches along the
entire r-oad was not needed again. Also, he would like to see speed
limit signs placed or a sign that says residential traffic only so
people are aware that it is not a thoroughfare street.
Mayor Windschitl stated the street should be re-signed. If the speed
I imi t is a problem, the deputies can run a saturation patrol, noting
Mr. Schrantz can request additional service in there. The Engineers
stated they found some contamination in the existing Class V, so they
are being cautious In the feasibility to include enough Class V to
Insure a good subgrade in the proJ ect. If it is found the soil is
adequate, they wi 11 leave the gravel. That wi 11 be determined when
the final designs are completed.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Knight, that we close the public input
por-tion of the public hearing. Motion carried unanimously.
MOTION by Eiling, Seconded by Knight, a Resolution ordering the
improvement of street construction, Project No. 67-12 in the Wobegon
Woods area and directing preparation of plans and specifications.
(See Resolution RI22-87) Motion carried unanimously.
Public Hear-ing for Project 87-12, Wobegon Woods Street improvement,
closed at 8:15 p.m.
Public Hearing
MInutes - July 16, 1987
Page 5
COMPUTER SYSTEM DISCUSSION
Mayor Windschitl was conce~ned with the CRT screens receIved for the
computer system because they are not adjustable and have a lot of
glare. He was also concerned wIth the delay In getting It Installed,
questioning whether the problem is with the software and Just what the
problem is. Mr. Sch~antz stated everthing is supposed to arrIve
next Tuesday.
A suggestion was to meet with representatIves of the software company
and possibly Ted LachInskI, sInce he was Involved wIth the bIds and
specifications fo~ the computer system for the CIty Hal I, regardIng
these concerns. No specific decIsions were made at this time.
FOREST MEADOWS AREA - PROJECT 87-5 PUBLIC HEARING
Mayo~ WindschItl opened the publIc hearing at 8:30 p.m., reviewing the
429 procedure. He also explained the rIght of way has been acquIred
for Hanson Bouleva~d and the County eIther has or Is in the process of
lettIng bIds for Hanson Boulevard from County Road 20 north to 58. He
stated the Ward Lake Drive portIon of Hanson Boulevard will be
completed this yea~, but the portIon from the curve south to County
Road 20 wi 1 I be brought to subgrade level this year and paved next
year.
Mayor Wlndschitl also noted the Council has made the decIsIon to keep
Ward Lake DrIve in the City's MSA system, though no time commitment
has been made as to when it wIll be completed. The maJor problem is
from Audette's corner south to Crosstown Boulevard. It is very
expensive to do that portIon of the ~oad and the funds are not
available.
Mr. Cook then revIewed the feasibility report for the neIghborhood
streets in Forest Meadows, Yellow Pine, Bluebird, and 177th west of
Ward Lake DrIve/Hanson Bouleva~d. AI I wi II be done as rural sections
except Bluebi~d, which will be an urban section with 24-foot
bitumInous and berm curb along the shoulder. The estImated cost for
each of the 51 lots is $4,010. No assessments a~e p~oposed along Ward
Lake DrIve because it would be done as an MSA st~eet, 32 feet wide
with concrete curb and gutter.
Councilman Orttel questIoned whether the southwestern lot off Xeon
and 179th Avenue would have access if the cuI de sac is not
constructed. Mr. Cook though t there was a long driveway from that lot
to the st~eet. The cui de sac is not constructed at this tIme. ThIs
has not been discussed with the property owner yet. Counci ¡man
Orttel suggested If the cuI de sac is not needed, the City should
vacate 1 t to the property owners.
Testimony was then opened to the public.
Public Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 6
(Forest Meadows Area Street Improvement, 87-5, Continued)
Dave Brostrom. 18001 Vale - asked the Council's preference for
whether or not they get paved streets. Mayor Windschltl stated the
Counc i I wi1l react to what the majority of the residents want. The
City does not subsidize any of the local Improvement projects.
Mr. Brostrom - stated he is opposed to the project and noted he has
a petition from a majority In the Forest Meadows area that do not want
the Improvement. With all the other possible increases In their
taxes, they don't need the additional amount for paved roads. Mr.
Brostrom then presented a petition that of the 18 Jots involved, 14
were opposed, 1 had a conflict of interest and would not sign, 1 was
unavailable, 1 lot is vacant, and 1 is in favor. Mayor Wlndschitl
accepted the petition.
Garv Heltemes. 17715 Ye]low Pine - stated the original pet I tlon was
for a feasibility study. In the notice he received and in talking
with the Mayor and City Engineer, he understood Ward Lake Drive would
not be done. Mayor Windschltl agreed, stating funding for that
portion of Ward Lake Drive is a problem. He thought the Counc i 1 would
be wlIllng to look at the one-half mile between Hanson Boulevard and
the corner and give it some priority as the funding becomes avaiJable.
At this time that road is not keyed Into a priority list of fundi ng
MSA roads In the City.
Mr. Heltemes - stated with the understanding that Ward Lake Drive
would not be done with this project, he and the four other residents
from Yel low Pine present this evening would be against Improving
YelIow Pine until Ward Lake Drive is done. If Ward Lake Drive were
done within a year, would it be the Council's Intent to do their
streets at the same time? Mr. Cook feIt it would be more
advantageous to do everything at once.
Llovd Packer. 17879 Bluebird - asked how does the cost compare to
simillar projects done in the area. Mr. Cook stated the costs for
such projects are typically in the area of $4,000, noting the costs
for this year have been similiar to what they had last year. The only
variance Is on the size of the lots. They like to stay within 5
percent on their estimated costs, but are always within 10 percent of
the bid. Typically they have high estimates this year.
Mr. Packer - was concerned about the heavy tractor-trailer sod
trucks that to up Bluebird Street rather than Ward Lake Drive because
of the grade they have to climb on that road. If they continue to do
that, who pays for any work that needs to be done in a few years?
Mayor Windschitl noted the residents cannot be assessed for the period
of the bond. However, the road wi 11 be constructed for residential
use only, not for commercial use, and sod trucks would not be allowed
to use Bluebird.
Publ ic Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 7
(Forest Meadows Area Street Improvement, 87-5, Continued)
Mr. Packer - asked how that could be enforced. Mayor Windschitl
stated it would be signed, and would be enforced with the police and
scaJIng methods. With Hanson Boulevard being constructed, he thought
the traffIc would go toward that street Instead of using Bluebird.
Mr. Packer - dIdn't think they would go to Hanson unless Ward Jake
Drive is paved.
A woman from Ward Lake Drive stated for every truck that goes down
Bluebird, 10 others do go down Ward Lake Drive past her house.
Because there was a majority petition against the improvement In
Forest Meadows, the folJowlng motion was made:
MOTION by Knight, Seconded by Elling, to terminate Forest Meadows
from this project. (See Resolution RI23-87) Motion carried
unanimously.
In further discussion, Mr. Schrantz thought there might be funding to
do Ward Lake Drive from Hanson to the curve next year. CouncIlman
Orttel questioned that, noting the Council had promised some years ago
that University Extension would be done. Counc i I noted when the funds
are available for that portion of Ward Lake DrIve, the residents on
Yellow Pine can be notified and can petition for the Improvements
again.
MOTION by Knight, Seconded by Orttel, that we terminate discussion
on Yellow PIne. (See Resolution R123-87) Motion carried unanimously.
Mrs. Audette - asked If the remainder of Ward Lake Drive would be
scheduled for Improvement over a perIod of time as funding becomes
available. Mayor Windschitl stated yes. The problem is also the cost
to do that portion of the road. Mr. Cook stated they are looking at
going south of the corner on Ward Lake DrIve for three or four lots,
staying north of the ditch when the first section is done.
Larrv Audette. 1364 Ward Lake Drive - stated he has lived there
longer than anyone and it Is the poorest road In the entire area. He
noted the problems in the spring with buses getting stuck, cars
ruined, etc. WI th the Increase In the number of houses In that area
in the past few years and therefore an Increase in the tax revenues,
no work had been done on Ward Lake Drive with any of that money. He
felt at least some Class V should be placed on the road to make it
passable. Counc 1 I discussed the problem of upgrading that road,
that the City doesn't subsIdIze one area wIth funds from another
area, and on the design of the MSA street. It was noted there would
be no assessment for Ward Lake Drive if all easement is donated.
Public Hearing
Minutes - Ju]y 16, 1987
Page 8
<Forest Meadows Area Street Improvement, 87-5, Continued)
Tonv Coffev. Ye]low PIne - asked the design of the corner to meet
state aid requirements. Mr. Cook stated It Is a T Intersection, a 90
degree turn. But he did not have a copy of that design with him this
evening.
Mr. Coffev - stated the service on that road is poor. The City
indicated It shouJd be graded every two weeks. He thought it was done
every four to six weeks. Mr. Schrantz stated they cannot grade when
it is dry because it only makes it worse.
Mayor Wlndschitl asked the feeling of the residents along Bluebird.
Mr. Packer - stated there are only six here this evening. Wi th the
size of the project reduced, how does that affect the amount they
would have to pay. Counc I I and Engineers discussed the feasibility of
doing B1uebird and Yellow Pine when that northern portion of Ward Lake
Drive is done.
It was then agreed when the funding is available to do the northern
portion of Ward Lake Drive, the residents along Bluebird, as well as
Yel low Pine, wou]d be contacted and they can repetItion for the
improvement.
MOTION by Elling, Seconded by Knight, that we delete the Bluebird
Street portion of the project. <See Resolution RI23-87) Motion carried
unanimously.
Discussion was then on 177th Avenue west of Ward Lake Drive.
Ken Orr - stated he was opposed to it. But he noted the lots on the
south side of 177th are not shown on the map. He stated the other
resident on the north Is not in favor either.
Garv Thompson. 1700 177th - stated he is In favor. He just moved in
and would Jlke to have It done.
MIke WaJker. 177th and Hanson Boulevard - stated he was opposed.
Counc i 1 agreed to terminate this street as well and Include it wi th
Bluebird and Yellow Pine when they are heard again.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Knight, that we terminate constructIon
of 177th Avenue NW west of Hanson Boulevard. <See Reso]ution RI23-87)
Motion carried unanimously.
Counci I recessed at 9:25; reconvened at 9:38 p.m.
Public Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 9
FIRE STATION PRESENTATION
Councilman Elling gave a presentation on the Committee's
recommendation and design concept for addi tional fire protecti on in
the City. The plan called for a new 4-bay station in the northwest
area of the City around County Roads 20 and 7, a new 6-bay station In
the vicinity of 139th and the new Crosstown Boulevard alignment, and
retaining 2 bays at the current station on the City Hall site.
Councilman Elling showed maps Indicating population and response times
to support the locations, and reviewed the design concept of the two
new stations stating the intent is that all stations would be the same
design and would be easily expandable for additional bays when needed.
He also reviewed the financing, stating in projectIng population
Increases conservatively, a 2.5 mill levy would support a $1,450,000
bond. It is estimated the northwest station would cost $300,000 and
the southern station $600,000. Wi th equipment, they are estimating a
$1.25 million bond Issue would be needed.
Councilman Elling also stated the Intent would be to give the meeting
room and several bays in the existing station to Public Works or
Police Department. Additional maintenance and operating costs are
estimated at $36,100 per year versus the $15,000 now spent on the one
station.
There was then a lengthy discussion between the Council and members of
the Fire Department regarding the concept. One of the issues raised
by Mayor Wlndschitl was his feeling that It would be more appropriate
to have the southern station just a substation and the main station at
the Ci ty Hall site, especially given the City Hall complex concept
being proposed for south of the existing City Hall.
Members of the Fire Department argued at least six bays are needed for
equipment in the southern portion. The location for the northeastern
station has not yet been determined. They fel t it could be in the Ci ty
Hall area or further north or east depending on where the population
wi I I be 10 or 15 years from now. They argued the location for that
station should be determined by population and response times at the
time that such a station Is needed.
Another concern of the Council was on operating and maintenance costs,
noting the budget constraints the City will be facing. Discussion
also Included the difficulties of getting such bond issues passed by
the residents, the cost of the increased m II I levy to the residents,
long-range plans of the Fire Department, equipment needed for the
Department, and how these proposals fit Into the overall long-range
plans of the City regarding the City Hal] bui Iding, a Police
Department, etc.
Public Hearing
Minutes - July 16, 1987
Page 10
<Fire Station Presentation, Continued)
Councilman Orttel stated his proposal to expand the existing City Hall
building was based on a 5-year projection. If the Counc i I Is
considering a longer period of time, then he asked to have time to
look at his proposal again. Counc i ] agreed to hold a special meeting
on August 26 regarding the long-range plans for the various areas such
as the Fire Department, Police Department, etc. and their financial
implications and their priorities.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Elling, to set August 26 for a Special
Meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
Counc i I generally agreed with the concept of three fire stations In
the city for optlmlum fire protection and with the the design concept
of the proposed stations.
Counc i I also asked the Committee for further details on the equipment
operating and maintenance costs for the additional stations, for more
accurate cost figures for additional equipment needed, and a breakdown
of how the bond wi I] impact the homeowners in the City.
APPOINTMENT OF COUNCILMEMBER
Counc i I was st I J ] at an impasse on the selection of a councllmember.
Mayor Wlndschitl stated he did not want to appoint the councllmember
but would do so if necessary. With no further discussion or motions,
Mayor Windschltl then stated he would review the applications further
and send his appointment to the Clerk in Jetter form before next
Tuesday's meeting (July 21, 1987).
MOTION by Elling, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried
unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 11 :42 p.m.
Respectfully submitted, ~
~~~~.
Mar la A. Peach
Recording Secretary
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