HomeMy WebLinkAboutPH March 28, 1984
~ 01 ANDOVER
PUBLIC HEARINGS - MARCH 28, 1984
MINUTES
Pursuant to notice published thereof, Public Hearings on the following street
improvement projects were called to order by Mayor Jerry Windschitl on March 28, 1984,
7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Anoka, Minnesota:
Project 84-4 (164th), Project 84-5 (Hugh's), Project 84-1 (161st), Project 84-3 (157th),
and Project 84-2 (South Coon Creek Drive).
Councilmen present: Elling, Knight, Lachinski, Orttel
Councilmen absent: None
Also present: BRA Engineer, Glen Cook; City Engineer, James Schrantz;
City Clerk/A. Administrator, P. K. Lindquist; and interested
residents
PROJECT 84-4 (164th Avenue, Jonquil Street, 163rd Lane)
Mr. Cook briefly reviewed the feasibility report to construct a 28-foot wide bituminous
surface street with berm curb. He explained a culvert would be located at the end of
164th and at Round Lake Boulevard to direct the drainage to the north. Drainage from
163rd would come down Jonquil to a low ponding area on the end. The total estimated
cost of the project is $57,960, or a cost of $3,625 for each of the 16 units. The
county has agreed to pay for the culvert on Round Lake Boulevard, which is why the per-
unit cost now estimated is lower than the amount told the residents in their public
hearing notices.
The Hearing was then opened for public testimony.
Denis Hornsten, 3105 164th Avenue NW - asked if the estimates are known on how much
dirt wlll have to be hauled in. He wondered why the cost is so high, as the sand and
dirt in the project area are easy to move around and large equipment will not be needed
for the project. Mr. Cook stated they are estimating $5,000 for grading the area
before hauling the gravel base and bituminous surface, which he thinks is a minimal
amount given start-up costs, etc. The only dirt that will be brought in is for the 4-
inch gravel base before paving, estimating 1900 ton of gravel base at a cost of $11,400.
Mayor Windschitl read the major costs as estimated in the feasibility report. Mr.
Schrantz stated one of the reasons the cost per unit is high is because there are not
many units to share the cost. And typically the lots are 200 feet wide in that area.
The lot on the end of 163rd is large but has a lot of lowland. He didn't think it
could be split and assigned only one unit to it.
Bruce Samb, 3021 164th Avenue NW - wondered if the end of 164th will have a cul de sac
that would affect him and would he be assessed again for any future extension of that
road. Mr. Cook stated the intent is not to change anything from what is there because
it is not known what will happen concerning development to the east. Mr. Schrantz
stated Mr. Samb would not be assessed again for any future road extension of l64th.
Further discussion was the most that would be done now is to put enough turnaround for
the road maintenance equipment, but it is not realistic to put in a full cul de sac
at this time.
Gerald Erlandson, 3031 164th - stated he didn't get the notice of this hearing. He
stated there are rumors that the property to the east is already being developed. He
also asked if there are any plans to connect their subdivision with a road through to
the industrial center, expressing opposition to that because of the increased truck
traffic it would create through their area. The Engineers explained where the pro-
posed development of Jim Lund is to the far east and north, but it does not abut their
subdivision. They felt there is a possibility that 164th could be extended as a through
street to Highway 20 in the future. There are no plans to tie this development in with
the industrial park.
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 2
(Project 84-4 - 164th, Continued)
Mr. Erlandson - asked the exact location of the culvert and will it drain onto his
property. The Engineers explained'itis located between the last two lots on 164th
and will direct the drainage from the four lots on that end to the low area back there.
The rest of the drainage will be taken toward Round Lake Boulevard. There was some
talk of directing the storm drainage from the industrial park up to this area, but that
option has since been rejected and the storm drainage from the industrial park will be
taken care of within the park itself.
Mr. Erlandson - felt the problem is the increase in price, as $3100 a lot was talked
about before. He asked the reason for the increase. Mr. Schrantz explained the
$3100 figure was just an estimate, and the $3625 is based on more accurate information
from the feasibility study, plus it is one year later.
Mr. Erlandson - felt costs haven't risen that much. Also, he stated he is not real
happy about the drainage on his property. The Engineers explained the water will be
what comes from the blacktop surface itself. It will be directed to this area, but
there would be very little discharge down that line. Council felt the Engineers should
do a runoff calcuation and tell Mr. Erlandson the exact amount of runoff that will be
coming through his property.
Mr. Erlandson - asked if someone developed on the end of l64th, would that water also
come down to that culvert. Mayor Windschitl stated they would have an obligation to
handle the water within their own plat. Councilman Elling asked if there was enough
material on the project to raise the road to allow all the drainage to go to the west.
Mr. Cook felt there may be enough material, but didn't think it was possible because of
having to match the existing driveway elevations along the road.
Dennis Cleveland, 3126 163rd Lane NW - was speaking for the gentleman off 163rd who
has a pond on his property. He was concerned about the impact of the storm drainage
runoff in the spring on the environment of that pond because it is used for geese,
ducks, etc. Secondly, there are only four residences on 163rd Lane, and to his knowledge
none of them are in favor of the project. He asked if the project could be stopped at
the end of Jonquil. Mr. Cook stated about three acres of drainage area goes down
toward that pond.
Mr. Cleveland - explained there is a huge lake on the inside of that corner; and the last
t1me it was graded, it was done such that it doesn't all go into his driveway now. It
just sits there now, and on the street side it is probably knee-deep. Mr. Cook agreed
that all of that plus what comes down Jonquil would be coming around and to that ponding
area. Mayor Windschitl stated in theory that piece could be separated from the project,
but he felt the Council would be reluctant to do so because of the road maintenance.
The Council usually likes to have an entire area finished because it is more cost effec-
tive. Mr. Schrantz stated if it was separated, when it is done in the future the costs
would be even higher because of the side lots being picked up by everyone in the project.
Discussion was the half-section map shows 163rd from Jonquil going to the west,
questioning whether that has been eliminated or vacated. Mr. Schrantz stated they are
not anticipating building it but it is a dedicated right of way. It could be an access
to those two lots that face Round Lake Boulevard.
Mike Lachardt, 3126 l63rd Lane NW - had understood that that was an abandoned roadway
and was never going to be bUllt upon. Is that true? Council stated there isn't any
plans at this time to construct it.
Mr. Lachardt - explained the hole in that area has always caused a lot of problems as
far as cars going off the road onto his property and even hitting cars parked in his
driveway. He'd like to get rid of that hazard. Mr. Cook stated they would not super
that corner, but the improvement will direct the water around that corner.
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 3
(Project 84-4 - 164th, Continued)
Mr. Lachardt - stated there have been instances where his roadway actually fills up
with water up to six inches deep. 'The end of his property does take some of the runoff.
There is a culvert through his driveway which was required when he built that has since
plugged up and has never been cleaned. When he first built, the water went down the
ditch; but in the past seven years the ditch has eroded to be even with the road.
Mr. Schrantz explained the project would keep the water on the street along the edge
of the road and dump off the end of the cul de sac.
Mr. Lachardt - asked if it would be necessary to make the full cul de sac at the end
of l63rd, and would it lower the cost to make it the same as 164th, just providing
enough turnaround for the road equipment. He understood that the lot on the cul de sac
is owned by someone who in the past has been refused a lot split on it. Council was
unaware of a request for a ìot split for that lot. Mr. Schrantz thought the lot was
too low to support two septic systems. Mr. Cook stated the feeling with this cul de
sac was that it is a permanent one; whereas on 164th it is looked at as being temporary
since there will be some future platting to the east. And for permanent cul de sacs
they like to have something for a turnaround of equipment. Referring to the quality of
water to the pond off l63rd, Mr. Schrantz stated it would be the same water running down
there that is going there now, with some more efficiency because of the blacktop. They
are using only 10 percent salt in the sand, but he didn't believe they would be doing
that much sanding on that street in the winter.
Mr. Cleveland - stated very little of that water goes down to the pond, as most of it
runs along side the road and pools in the corner. Mayor Windschitl stated an alternative
is to settle the water out ahead of the pond. Mr. Cook stated the pond is really close
to the end of the cul de sac.
Martin Meyer, 3060 164th Avenue NW - someone said his lot drains toward Round Lake and
Jonqu1l. He's never seen 1t do that, as there is a driveway next to him that blocks
that. He also has a puddle next to him, though it is nothing serious. Also, when the
Mayor was quoting cost figures, sod was mentioned as being an expensive item. He asked
if it is feasible to eliminate the sod and put in seeding. Mayor Windschitl stated
it is something that can be done, but it often causes many complaints because of the
blown mulch used on the seed. The Engineers noted about $3900 is estimated for seeding
and sod, the sod used only along the edge of the curb.
Mr. Meyer - felt they could live with that complaint. By eliminating the sod and the
cul de sac, he felt it could reduce the cost of the project significantly. Mr.
Schrantz stated sod amounts to approximately $200 a unit.
Mr. Erlandson (?) - didn't feel sod on that sand would grow anyway and would just as soon
take care of the seeding himself.
Mr. Horsten - stated for the price quoted, he'll live with the dirt. He's opposed to
the project. LeRoy Ternus, 3125 164th Avenue NW - felt the project is too expensive and wishes to
vote no.
Mr. Samb - is also opposed to the project.
Council then noted the petition now stands as 7 yes, 8 no.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Elling, that we terminate any future consideration of
164th Avenue, Jonquil Street, and 163rd Lane for 1984. (See Resolution R018-84).
Motion carried unanimously.
Hearing closed at 7:56 p.m.
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 4
PROûECT84-5 (162nd Lane in Hugh's Industrial Park)
The Public Hearing for Project 84-5 was called to order. Mr. Cook briefly reviewed
the feasibility report to construct a 32-foot wide, 9-ton bituminous surface with
concrete curb and gutter. The estimated cost of the improvement is $79,665, with
the 21.5 units receiving an estimated assessment of $3,700 based on five-year assess-
ments at 10 percent interest. The culvert at Round Lake Boulevard will be paid for by
the County. Another culvert will be located on the crossing of 162nd Lane. They looked
at the storm drainage for the entire area. But after meeting with the property owners
in Hugh's Industrial Park, the property owner of the southeast corner offered to provide
a ponding area in the project area to avoid the potential of future problems. As a
part of the final cost distribution on the street, that was taken into account and the
number of units being assessed was reduced accordingly. They are now looking at
bringing the water from the area to the holding pond to perculate into the soil. Mr.
Cook also pointed out that when there is a holding pond for storm drainage that doesn't
have an outlet, there is the possibility the storm sewer may have to go in or overflow
provided as the area develops or more of the lots are surfaced.
Councilman Lachinski asked why a five-year assessment is being proposed. Mr. Schrantz
state it could be whatever the City wants, but five years was proposed because it is
more acceptable in industrial/commercial areas so they don't have to pay as much interest.
Jim Renner, Riccar Hearing and Air Conditioning, 3095 162nd Lane - is 100 percent in
favor of the roads. He felt the roads should come in now because costs go up every
year, because it is good for business, would save wear and tear on the trucks that go
in and out everyday, would increase the value of the property, and would help in being
able to plant sod or grass and maintain nice-looking lots. Also, there is a gully on
the corner of l62nd and Round Lake Boulevard that can only be taken at 5 mph, creating
a traffic hazard coming into the area. With all the heavy traffic on the road, one day
after grading the road there are more bumps and ruts. He didn't think storm sewers
were needed. And he is in favor of the five-year assessment because of the lower interest
rate.
Bob Gilbertson from Gilbertson Precast - has the biggest chunk of land of five acres.
He asked if once the road 1S paved 1f his land could be divided into one-acre lots.
Council dïscussnonwas 39,000 square feet of buildable property has been used for commercial
lots, but it was generally felt that the one-acre lot would not be a problem unless a
specific use is proposed that would maek it a problem.
Mr. Gilbertson - stated it would not be feasible for them to keep the entire parcel
once the road is in, feeling he would have to sell some land. He is donating the one
acre on the end to the City for the storm drainage holding pond.
Art Jaworski, Lot 3 - didn't think dividing into one-acre lots would be allowed. He
stated when th1S was originally platted, the lots were allowed at this size because they
were grandfathered in. After this was done, Mr. Hughs wanted to plat the land to the
south, but they had to be all 2\ acre lots. He didn't feel that it was grandfathered in
to allow splitting into 100-foot lots. These lots are actually smaller than what the
ordinance states. Mayor Windschitl stated the ordinance would have to be interpreted
for Mr. Gilbertson.
Mr. Jaworski - at this point he is not in favor of having curb and gutter streets. And
he d1dn't feel the improvement and concrete curb and gutters will improve the area that
much. There are unlicensed vehicles and junk sitting around -- ordinances that are not
being enforced by the City. Lot 2 has at least two unlicensed vehicles sitting on it
in various stages of disrepair and a lot of garbage around. There are others who are
trying to improve the area, but the improvement is not going to make sod grow because of
the sand. Also, when the plat was drawn up, somewhere around Lots 8 and 9 where the
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 5
(Project 84-5 - 162nd Lane, Continued)
draw is was designated as a drainage easement. Those lots were sold for less money
because of that easement. He didn't feel they should have to provide any financial
provisions for anybody else who bought those lots cheaper because of the drainage
easement. Mayor Windschitl stated no money is being talked about for storm water
drainage. Everything is being dedicated. Mr. Cook stated a culvert would still be
needed and there is nothing additional for storm water drainage. The only trade-off
is not assessing the lot being dedicated for the holding pond.
Don Hedtke, Gilbertson Precasting - explained the proposal on the petition was to put
together a cost structure, and at that time he said no.
Mr. Gilbertson - stated the main thing they are worried about is being able to split
up the five acres and not having to bear the assessment for the entire parcel. The
Clerk explained the amendment allows for whatever the ordinance was, which was 100-
front footage minimum. But the lots still have to meet the 39,OOO-square-foot re-
quirement for on-site sewers. Council noted the platting of that land would only be
allowed on the land carrying the LI zoning designated prior to the ordinance. He
couldn't encroach onto any other land for industrial classification. It would have to
be divided through the platting procedure.
Someone asked how much lower the road will be. Mr. Cook stated it could be lowered
a foot, but wouldn't want to guarantee any more than that.
Mr. Gilbertson - asked if they will receive a donation slip from the City for donating
the lot for the holding pond to be used as a tax exemption. Council wasn't sure of
the legalities, stating the City Attorney will have to give an opinion on that.
Mr. Renner - asked why curb and gutters are needed. Mr. Schrantz explained it is to
control the drainage'down to the culvert.
Diane Chilson - stated they are for the project. Council noted the petition is now
7 yes, 2 against the project.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, that we close the public input portion of the
publ1C hearing on 162nd. Motion carried unanimously.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Elling, introducing a Resolution ordering the improvement
of bituminous streets and curb and gutter for Project IP 84-5, for 162nd Lane, Hugh's
Industrial Park Area and directing preparation of final plans and specifications as
prepared, with the addition under the final BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: to authorize the
City Engineer and City Attorney to proceed with acquisition of easements necessary for
construction. (See Resolution R019-84) Motion carried unanimously.
Hearing closed at 8:28 p.m.
MSA PROJECT 84-1 (161st Avenue from Round Lake Boulevard to Tulip Street)
Mayor Windschitl explained the following three public hearings are for Municipal State
Aid streets, and the City has enough money to do two or more of the projects. The
proposal is to build as nonoffensive a street as possible and assess only what may be
spent for acquiring right of way.
Mr. Cook then briefly reviewed the feasibility study for 16lst Avenue for a 32-foot
street with concrete curb and gutter. It will be a g-ton road. The existing road is
primarily on the north half of the right of way. At Round Lake Boulevard they may be
making a jog in the road of about 500 feet, going north about 15 feet, to line up with
County Road 20 to the east. From the jog west, they would be following the center line
of the road to Tulip. There is presently 60 feet of right of way on the south side of
the section line, and an assumed right of way on the north side. There are three storm
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 6
(MSA Project 84-1 ~ 161st Avenue, Continued)
sewer culverts that"would be crossing the road. The one closest to Tulip would drain
to the south to a pond by the park area. The second and third culverts would drain to
the north. The estimated cost of the project is $185,840, with no assessment unless
additional right of way needs to be acquired. The cottonwood trees along the south
side would be removed.
Mrs. Royce Bennett - understood the proposal is to move the road to the south, and she
requested something in writing stating that is what is going to be done. She asked
the required number of feet that will be needed on their side of the street. Mayor
Windschitl stated it is 33 feet from center.
Mrs. Bennett - noted the corner of 161st and Tulip is very hazardous, with a very
11mlted llne of sight to the south. And very often people don't even stop for the stop
signs. She asked if the brush will be removed and if that corner will be improved:
Mr. Schrantz stated the intersection will be improved including the line of sight and
the drainage. Mayor Windschitl saw no reason why she couldn't be given a letter as
requested. On the final drawings, she will be able to see exactly where the road will
be bui It. Mr. Schrantz also stated the City would ask that they donate the 33 feet
of easement north of the section line.
Mrs. Bennett - understood that, but wants a document in return of where the road will
be located. They farm the land to the north and wondered how much of the water from
the storm drainage they will be getting. Mr. Cook stated the only water discharge
will be from the culvert in the middle. They haven't made a calculation as to how
much water will be coming from the culverts, but he didn't think it would be much other
than taking the water off the road. Mayor Windschitl stated it is not logical for
the City to interfere with the farming operation. Mr. Schrantz stated they are not
disturbing the natural drainage at all, so the water that runs off the blacktop
would be all that is added to the drainage.
Mrs. Bennett - asked if they will be able to have their two driveways come off the road.
The Engineers thought there would be no reason not to have them. They would provide the
driveway cuts and blacktop back to the property line.
Royce Bennett - commented that years ago the road was constructed for $200 in 1964,
th1nking th1S project is really a lot of money.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Knight, to close the public input portion of the hearing
on 161st Avenue. Motion carried unanimously.
MOTION by Elling, Seconded by Knight, introducing a Resolution ordering the improvement
of bituminous streets, IP 84-1, for 161st Avenue from Round Lake Boulevard to Tulip
Street and directing preparation of final plans and specifications, and finalize the
agreement with the Bennetts in writing for easement acquisition. (See Resolution R020-84)
Motion carried unanimously.
MSA PROJECT 84-3 (157th Avenue from Holly Street to University Avenue)
Mr. Cook reviewed the feasibility report for 157th Avenue for a 32-foot wide road with
concrete curb and gutter at a 9-ton design. He noted the proposed location of the
culverts, the first one being at the low area east of the existing blacktop that would
drain into the county ditch to the south. The proposal is also to flatten out the
curve that comes up to the intersection at University Avenue for a better sight distance
coming into the intersection and provide a 35 mph design speed curve there. The
proposal would be to place the road approximately 50 feet south of the existing roadway
a li gnment. The estimated cost of the project is $168,810, with no assessment unless
additional right of way needs to be acquired.
Publ ic Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 7
(MSA Project 84-3 - 157th Avenue, Continued)
Ken SlrZUk - asked if the drainage will be a culvert or catch basin. Mr. Cook stated
it wil be a catch basin with the culvert extended out before it catches the corner of
the ditch.
Mr. Slyzuk - didn't know if it was a county ditch or not, but he is the one who maintains
it. He was concerned that a great deal of additional drainage not be added to the ditch
to cause a problem with his fields. He asked about an entrance onto the road at the
end of his field. He would like it made wider than normal to get the equipment through.
Generally he had no problem with the project. The Engineers stated an access can be
provided whenever he'd like it, and it could be made wider to meet his needs.
Theresa S'andfQrJi, the south side of the curve - stated there is a lot of drainage off the
road now gOlng to the south slde. She wondered what effect paving would have on that,
if it would add much more water to that low area. Mr. Cook stated the project won't
affect the low area, as it drains there now and the project will not change any of the
drainage.
Ron S~ndfQ~d - asked if it will go through the low area and cut through the hill on the
curve. Mr. Cook explained the low area will be affected plus the knoll on the east
side of his property. The road will be moved 50 feet south at the main part of the
curve, tapering down to about 10 feet south at the intersection of University.
Mr. Sandf~rd - asked what is going to be done with the dirt from that knoll. Mr. Cook
stated some will be used to fill in the low area and the rest for the area that will
need to be excavated on the west end of the project.
Mr. Sandford - asked how much of a land loss he would experience. Mr. Cook stated it
hasn't been computed exactly but felt it would be approximately one-half acre in
addition to the normal 33 feet of right of way.
Dan (1) , land owner - asked how certain it is that this project will proceed
given the MSA funds available. Mayor Windschitl explained the Council will have to
rank the projects once the hearing is completed on South Coon Creek Drive. Withi n the
next two years clearly the money is available to build all three roads. The Counci 1
is attempting to determine which projects can be started with the least amount of
d iffi cu It ies. Mr. Schrantz stated staff recommendation is to proceed with acquiring
the right of way in 1984 and constructing the roadway in 1985.
Because the SjJJldfords are affected the most on this project, it was agreed to recess
to allow them time to look at the proposal more closely and talk with the engineers.
Recess at 9:04; reconvene at 9:16.
Mr. Cook stated in talking with the property owners on the curve, they would negotiate
on the right of way if the City could provide some kind of ponding area there, making
the project less painful for them. He felt if some agreement could be worked out to get
the right of way, it would be acceptable, expecting that to be a part of the MSA cost.
Mayor Windschitl suggested resolving that issue at the time of the final plans so the
City knows what is taking place.
Mr. Sandhrd - stated outside of that issue, they would have no problem with the project.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Elling, to close the public hearing input. Motion
carr1ed unanimously.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Elling, entering a Resolution ordering the improvement
of bituminous street, Improvement Project 84-3, for 157th Avenue from Holly Street to
University Avenue and directing the preparation of final plans and specifications,
and also directing the engineer to proceed with easement acquisition. (See Resolution
R021-84) Motion carried unanimously.
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 8
MSA PROJECT 84-2 (South Coon Creek Drive)
Mayor Windschitl explained that three separate areas are really involved: the two
higher density areas on either end and the rural section in the middle. He suggested
starting the discussion with the west end which has the question of sanitary sewer and
road alignment. He stated the Council is wanting to find out what the people want,
noting there is a reluctance on the part of the Council to put in a street prior to the
installation of sanitary sewer.
Mr. Cook reviewed the feasibility study for the construction of a 32-foot wide bituminous
surface street with concrete curb and gutter. He explained the project was looked at
in two parts, from the bridge westward to approximately where the sewer line would end
and from the bridge eastward to Uplander. In this report they did not include the
section west to Round Lake Boulevard because of the sewer question, but the proposal on
the alignment on the west end would be to move the roadway 10 to 15 feet to the north
of the platted center line. The attempt is to try to maintain a 30-foot right of way
and still allow a 30-foot setback to the homes in the area, and he showed existing and
proposed right-of-way lines for the roadway.
Bev Christenson, 3419 South Coon Creek Drive - stated if the road is moved over, when
com1ng up to the stop sign on Round Lake Boulevard, the car lights will be shining
into the bedroom windows of the house directly across Round Lake Boulevard. She felt
that person had some rights too. She stated South Coon Creek Drive was not built right,
it was never checked where the houses were built, and she felt the City should move
those houses back to where they belong. Mayor Windschitl explained that problem
occurred many years ago, and the attempt now is to get a reasonable fit of a road through
there. Mr. Cook stated they realize the problem of moving the road to the north at the
intersection, stating the lights probably shine in the living room of that house right
now. It is a concern.
Ms. Christenson - stated the City had a 66-foot easement through there when it was
called Andover Road in 1955. It was changed to South Coon Creek Drive in March, 1966.
She felt that the City should not have to take any extra easement to construct the
road. She stated she is very angry about this proposal. The road would be coming
within a foot of their property, maybe even on it. Her children play in the front yard,
which is the only place they have to play; and every time a truck goes by, her children
are in danger. Mr. Schrantz explained in front of Ms. Christenson's house they would
not be taking much right of way but would be physically moving the road, and the curb
would be about ten feet further onto her grass. It is being moved north to get a
better setback for the houses on the south. Mr. Cook stated there is 33\ feet of right
of way in front of her house now, and the proposal would be to take apprxoimately five
to six feet on the westerly side and less than that on the easterly side of their lot.
Ms. Christenson - stated in addition there would be noise to put up with plus other
nUlsances. She again felt that the 66-foot easement should be sufficient. She also
felt a 35 mph design is too fast, protesting to have it lowered to at least 20 mph,
noting a deaf girl on the block. Mr. Schrantz stated it would be posted for 30 mph,
and the area could also be posted for the deaf child. Mr. Schrantz also noted they
wouldn't have to take anything from Ms. Christenson's property for the road, but he
would recommend acquiring from 0 to 8 feet in order to maintain a 14-foot boulevard.
There is some concern about sidewalks in the future through this area, and this would
provide enough boulevard for that. Mr. Cook stated using the approach the buried
utilities would go on the south side of the road, no additional right of way would be
required. But then only an eight-foot boulevard would be on the north side.
Ms. Christenson - stated the kind of drivers on that road now is unbelievable, even
dr1v1ng up and over their garden rather than moving a tree from the road. Mayor
Windschitl explained one of the reasons for wanting to upgrade the road is to improve
it from a safety standard, noting the bus traffic through there, etc.
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 9
(MSA Project 84-2, South Coon Creek Drive, Continued)
Ms. Christenson - asked if the road goes in and comes within one foot of her property,
W1 11 she be able to put up a fence on the property line. The Engineers noted she
would have a right to fence up to where her property line ends.
Ms. Christenson - asked if the road would be the same height as the existing road.
Mr. Cook stated it is a relatively flat area, and the road elevation would be basically
the same. Councilman Orttel noted that it is unlikely the road in front of Ms.
Christenson's house would be built without sanitary sewer, asking for comments on that
issue.
Leonard Christenson - stated if the alignment goes through as proposed, the value of
h1S property would be dimished considerably, because the easement is about 30 percent
of their property. He was also concerned about the safety factor his wife talked about.
They are against having that infringe any further and are not in favor of upgrading
the road. He felt the increased speed of the traffic will dimish the safety factor.
Ron Hoch, 3426 South Coon Creek Drive - was not sure what facts are being talked about
relat1ve to san1tary sewer. At one time it was talked of putting the sewer line behind
his house rather than down the middle of the street. Mayor Windschitl explained
from a gravity flow standpoint, the sewer line will come out of the ground near the end
of the houses on the end of South Coon Creek Drive. So a lateral line would be brought
down South Coon Creek Drive. If there is interest for the sewer, the engineers could do
a more accurate study and public hearings held on the issue. Mr. Schrantz estimated the
cost to be $40 a front foot or $4,000 a lot, and about $3,000 a lot if water would be
installed.
Mr. Christenson - would be in favor of sewer and water if the road is upgraded. But
he d1dn't want to see sewer come in and then five years later have water come in.
Council suggested the residents on the west end should have a chance to think about the
information'further; and if they are interested in pursing the installation of sanitary
sewer, they could petition the City for it.
Discussion was then on the road improvement of South Coon Creek Drive from the bridge
easterly to Uplander. Mr. Cook reviewed the proposed alignment, especially the proposal
to flatten out the curves in the road which entails changing the alignment somewhat.
Some easements will need to be vacated and others acquired for this project, but an
attempt is also to fit the road to disturb the area as little as possible and to work
with the property owners.
Dick Pearson - appreciated the Council looking at improving the road and the potential
of not hav1ng an assessment. He felt the other people along the road had the same feeling.
The road now is very sandy and kids drive down it swirling in and out. He felt once it
is tarred they will see slower speeds and better driving. Anything that can be done to
cut down the curve will make it a much safer road. Other than the curve radius, he
felt there could be a problem with sight alignment on one of the curves because of the
height of the bank.
Ed Fields - stated Mrs. Gallant, the property owner by the bridge, asked him to come.
He understood the engineers to say they would try to save the trees on the north side
of the road. Mr. Schrantz stated that is correct.
Mr. Fields - felt he could encourage her to agree to that. He also hoped that the
englneers could move the curve in front of Charles Fields' house as much as possible,
as this will probably be the permanent alignment, and it should be done correctly. He
encouraged putting as much safety into the road as possible.
Mayor Windschitl asked Mr. Spadgenske and Mr. Quinlin their feelings of moving the road
a few feet to the south to try to improve that curve.
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 10
(MSA Project 84-2, South Coon Creek Drive, Continued)
Mr. Quinlin - didn't think that would be a problem. He asked if the single row of
trees would be removed. Mr. Cook explained there are a few trees in the low area that
wouldn't be affected, but there will be a problem trying to save any of the trees that
are on very high ground.
Mr. Spadgenske - didn't think moving the road to the south in that area would be a
problem. The Council directed the engineers to meet with Mr. Quinlin and Mr.
Spadgenske relative to the alignment through there and the effect it will have on their
properties.
Luke Davich - asked about the curb design. He also wondered if the curb would be
lowered for a driveway he has half way down his property. Mr. Cook explained the curb
is the standard B6 18 concrete curb and gutter with la-inch gutter. There would be no
problem allowing for driveways as long as they are spaced properly.
Mr. Cook stated on the curve on the east end, the property owner to the south has
verbally agreed to allow the road to be shifted approximately five feet to the south
from what is shown to save the row of trees on the north. He felt that could be done
as long as the property owners are willing to work with them.
Mr. Lizakowski - had no problem with that, stating the City can take whatever is needed
on that corner.
Mr. Schrantz indicated there is a possibility the City could sewer the Barretts and
Emmerichs. If those residents don't feel they ever want the sewer line, that commitment
could be made now.
Mr. Emmerich - stated he did not want sanitary sewer.
Mr. Barrett - also stated he did not want sanitary sewer.
Mr. Emmerich, 2439 South Coon Creek Drive - stated there is a low spot just beyond his
place on the vacant property that has washed out in the past. The new road may
eliminate the problem, but he felt that it may have to be rip rapped, as there probably
would be a lot of water coming to that area. He didn't want a big gully there. The
Engineers indicated that will be taken care of.
Dionicio Borja - asked if standard driveway aprons will be provided. Mr. Schrantz
explalned the curb will be dropped with blacktop behind it.
Mr. Borja - asked if it would be possible to have the driveway made with concrete instead
of blacktop. Mr. Schrantz stated it would not be a problem if the property owner would
pay the difference between the blacktop and concrete.
Mr. Borja - asked if that could be provided as a bid item on the contract so the owner
would know the cost difference. The Engineers stated that would be possible. Mayor
Windschitl stated the City would not want to put that on an assessment roll, but the
property owner would have to pay the costs up front.
Mr. Hoch - has heard about the water quality problems in the City and asked if that
would affect the west end of South Coon Creek Drive as well. Mayor Windschitl stated
it clearly could have an effect on the east end because of the proximity to the landfill.
He explained the progress made with the Generator's agreement to study and clean up the
problem. Hopefully by this fall the City will know the ramifications and what remedies
are recommended for the cleanup on it. Tests have shown contamination in some wells,
but,no residential wells have shown any contaminates to date. The question of water on
the east end of South Coon Creek Drive will be known once the tests are done. There are
no known problems on the west end or the middle of South Coon Creek Drive.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Elling, to close the public input portion of the hearing.
Motion carried unanimously.
FUb 1 ic Hearings
March 28, 19S4 - Minutes
Page 11
(MSA Project 84-2, South Coon Creek Drive, Continued)
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Lachinski, introducing a Resolution ordering the
1mprovement of bituminous streets, IP 84-2, for South Coon Creek Drive from Poppy
Street to Uplander Street and directing preparation of final plans and specifications,
as prepared with the addition in the last BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, include: and proceed
with right-of-way negotiations. DISCUSS ION: Councilman Lachinski asked if the alternate
route to the south has been totally eliminated. Mr. Schrantz stated if the Council
wants to keep that option open, the improvement of South Coon Creek Drive should not
be done west of the bridge. Council discussion noted there appears to be some problems
using the existing alignment, that it may be prudent to improve the road only from the
bridge east to Uplander and look in greater depth into the feasibility of constructing
a more southerly route from the bridge west to Round Lake Boulevard.
Ms. Christenson - wondered what happens to the south side of the easement if the total
32 feet lS taken from their side of the road. Council noted it would be vacated and
and given back to the property owner if there is any excess easement.
Ms. Christenson - again stated she felt it is wrong, that the houses were supposed to
have been constructed 30 to 40 feet back from the right of way when they were
constructed, asking who is liable for that. It ends up that other people have to pay,
which she felt isn't fair.
Mr. Christenson - stated the issue with him isn't the amount of right of way to be
taken but that it then becomes a 45 mph road whether it is posted for 35 mph or not.
They have a four-year-old that plays out there, and he is concerned about that. If
it was a residential street, he wouldn't mind. But it's not residential -- it will
be a through street. It will have too much traffic going too fast, and he is against it.
Ms. Christenson - asked if after the road is built whether it could be petitioned in
the future to have it widened for parking. Mayor WindschitJ explained that once it
is built with State Aid funds, it prevents the City from allowing parking on the road.
Ms. Christenson - asked if Andover did any studies about moving the houses back, asking
1f the Council thought there should be. Mayor Windschitl stated no study was done.
But there were no ordinances at the time the houses were built, so what would be used
as a standard? Prior to the enactment of the ordinance in 1971, there was virtually
no control over placement of buildings. He asked if the City could work within the
existing right of way for this portion of the road. Mr. Schrantz stated it is possible,
but it would not be his recommendation. He would like to keep the boulevard on both
sides to eliminate Ms. Christenson's concern about sidewalks in the future. Counci 1-
man Orttel noted the motion does not call for the improvement in front of the
Christenson's lot.
Council discussion returned to the feasibility of constructing a southerly route from
the bridge westward to Round Lake Boulevard. The Engineers stated that has not been
costed out but there is about 1/4 mile of bad soils to go through. Mr. Schrantz
suggested talking with Mr. Kadelac who is in the process of developing the property
off 142nd and Round Lake Boulevard to have South Coon Creek Drive tie into 142nd.
The roadway would be similiar to what he would construct in the plat.
Mr. Hoch - understood when the sewer petition went around the people were generally
aga1nst it and that is why the matter was dropped. He would not be in favor of
having everything paved but having a dust bowl in front of his house. He wou 1 dn' t
mind having a deadend street and having South Coon Creek Drive go to the south.
Mayor Windschitl felt the most logical thing would be to work something out with the
present alignment rather than leave the street sit for a period of time. He suggested
ordering the improvement from the bridge east and allow the people on the west end to
look at the sewer and alignment questions. Council g~nerãlly felt they wanted to see
the costs for going the southern route to Round Lake Boulevard. But if that option
Public Hearings
March 28, 1984 - Minutes
Page 12
(MSA Project 84-2, South Coon Creek Drive, Continued)
were ordered, it would mean whenver the western portion of South Coon Creek Drive
was to be improved, it would be done at the expense of the property owners.
Councilman Orttel CHANGED THE MOTION to: for South Coon Creek Drive from the bridge
east to Uplander Street... (See Resolution R022-84)
VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Elling, Knight, Lachinski, Orttel; PRESENT-Windschitl as the
project potentially may come past some of his property. Motion carried unanimously.
Mayor Windschitl informed the residents on the west end of South Coon Creek Drive
that he or any of the Councilor engineers would be willing to meet with them to
answer questions, etc., and to get a consensus as to what they want regarding sanitary
sewer and the street improvement.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, to authorize the firm of Bonestroo. Anderlik.
and Rosene to develop a feasibility study for South Coon Creek Drive from the bridge
to Round Lake Boulevard around 142nd Avenue at a fee not to exceed $1,000.
DISCUSSION: After some discussion it was agreed to put this item on hold until after
the Council finds out what the people on the west end of South Coon Creek Drive want
to do and to put it on the April 17 regular Council meeting agenda.
Carroll Abbott - stated if the road does take the southerly route, he suggested
considering the extension of 142nd Lane to connect with Green Acres. Mayor
Windschitl stated the point is well taken; however, funding is a problem at this time.
Councilmen Orttel and Lachinski WITHDREW the Second and the Motion, with the Council
agreeing to place the item on the April 17 agenda.
Mr. Schrantz stated the decision on whether or not to construct a southerly route should
be made as soon as possible so Mr. Kadelac's plat is not held up.
Ms. Christenson - felt the exact location of the road should be marked for the people
to see exactly where the road will be going. Mayor Windschitl stated that can be done,
suggesting it be marked prior to the residents on the western end meet on the matter.
Mr. Davage - asked if the lost trees to the project will be replaced with other trees.
Is there any funding for that? Mr. Cook stated the replacement of trees would be
allowed and can be investigated on a site by site basis.
Mayor Windschitl also noted that no decisions can be made on the eastern end of South
Coon Creek Drive until the engineers make their conclusq'ons and recommendations on
the landfill issue.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconoed by Orttel, to continue the public hearing on South Coon
Creek Drive until April 17. Motion carried unanimously.
Hearing continued to April 17, 1984. 10:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
~~~L
Mar ¡Jla A. Peach
Recor ing Secretary