HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP March 8, 1983
~ 01 ANDOVER
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING - MARCH 8, 1983
MINUTES
A Special Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Jerry
Windschitl on March 8, 1983, 7:36 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown
Boulevard NW to discuss a contingency plan for municipal water and the allocation
of the City's 1983 CDBG funds.
Councilmen present: Elling, Knight, Lachinski, Orttel
Councilmen absent: None
Also present: TKDA Enginer, Mark Schumacher; City Engineer, James Schrantz;
and City Clerk/A. Administrator, P. K. Lindquist
Mayori Windschitl explained that he, Councilman Elling, and State Senator Greg Dahl
inspected the landfill on Saturday afternoon. There is an obvious large depression
in the landfill that has to get solved, as it is collecting water in its unterminated
state. There is also obvious erosion taking place on the site. Plus they got a
perspective of where the hazardous waste pit is. It is fenced and appears to be on
one of the highest points in the landfill; so if it is leaking, it would be heàding
toward the creek. The Mayor also stated that they are filling almost up to Crosstown
Boulevard, which he thought was outside the boundary negotiated with the owners. It
is being filled with broken wood products, pallets, etc.
The Mayor stated another thing taking place is that lime sludge is being brought in
from the St. Paul water treatment plant, which the employees at the landfill say is
not as easy to work with as that from Minneapolis. It was the Mayor's understanding
that the agreement was the lime sludge would come from the Minneapolis treatment plant.
The Clerk researched the agreement with Waste Disposal, and later in the meeting noted
that the source of the lime sludge was not specified in the Special Use Permit.
Councilman Elling stated there is talk of Waste Disposal wanting to bring in sewer
sludge to place on top of the lime sludge in lieu of topsoil. He stated he has talked
with the Sewer Board about this and they are checking on the chemical background of
sewer sludge. Councilman Knight stated the smell of sewer sludge is really objection-
able, and there were comments to the effect that the surrounding residents have had
enough irritation from the landfill over the years. It was not known whether or not
Mr. Roth responded to the PCA demands by the March 7 deadlinE nor Exactly what is taking
place with this matter now.
~iscussion was on how to use the 1983 CDBG funds granted to the City, which is approxi-
mately $59,ODO. Many suggestions were made, but the Clerk reviewed the guidelines that
must be followed, that it must be demonstrated that there is a need for the project,
that it must serve the low and moderate income, that it must be a capital-type improve-
ment to serve a disadvantaged area or remove slum or blight. The problem Andover has
is that the average income is fourth from the top in Anoka County and there is no
obvious disadvantaged area in the City.
The Clerk was asked to present some ideas to see if such projects would be allowed for
use of the City's CDBG funds. Those included erecting one or more signs in the City
to inform the residents of meetings, vacancies on committees, etc., a spring clean-up
project, a reforestation program to replace those trees which died of oak wilt around
the City, hiring laborers to improve the park system, or using it for the hazardous
waste problem. Council returned to this item later in the meeting.
D1scussion then centered around the development of a contingency plan for municipal
water. Councilman Lachinski asked if a report could be done on the underground
hydrology of the area and make a determination as to what is going to happen as a
result of the landfill. Mr. Schumacher stated Terry Huntrod of TKDA has a master's
degree in underground water movement and hydrogeology and has worked on the data report
for the Landfill Q site in the Bunker Hills Park area. TKDA does not have a log of
the background results of the work PCA has done for the testing and monitoring of the
wells nor anything about the location or contents of the barrels in the hazardous waste
Special City Council Meeting
March 8, 1983 ~ Minutes
Page 2
pit in the landfi 11. When dealing with an underground situation, when everything is
not known about the undergrrund geology, the information can be gathered and predictions
can be made as to what might happen. Mayor Windschitl explained that the EPA has
addressed that question by siting test wells in the area to monitor the underground
water. But he ·feH it is not an easy thing to determine with any accuracy.
Mr;.Schumacher also explained the lateral movement of the underground water may also
depend on what is going on around the landfill. He stated every time a well is pumped,
a drawdown is created that tends to want to draw the ground water toward the well. If
there are a lot of wells, as in a residential area, where no one well is pumping a
lot but there is a lot of wells pumping continously, the ground water wants to pull
in that direction. To pull a plume of pollution in that direction, it might take 20 years
depending on the kind of material it is. But a lot of it is educated guesses based on
data provided from various studies. He stated it is not true that water will be purer
simply because it travels through ten feet of sand. It depends on what is in it.
Councilman Knight stated nitrates would not filter out, but the material in household
sewage sludge would filter out. Mr. Schumacher stated sand doesn't necessarily take
out the exotic compounds found in the water. Councilman Elling stated the majority
of the pollutants found in the water are from the chlorine family.
Discussion was on a municipal water system itself, as the Council was particularly
concerned with the residents along Andover Boulevard, including Hartfiel~s and part of
Red Oaks and Northwoods. Mr. Schumacher stated in St. Louis Park the source of pollution
was in the center of the City and chemicals had been dumped on site for 50 to 60 years.
The pollution eventually got down into the ground water and in one well below the rock
formation. They closed that well, gravel packed it up above where the source showed
up, left the rest of the well in tact, and continued to draw out of the top 200 feet
of the we 11 . They shut down five wells in the immediate area. They now have treatment
studies going on to determine what kind of water filtration and treatment can be used.
They want to eventually restart the wells, treat it, and start drawing the polluted
water out. Otherwise what they think would happen is if they stopped pumping out of
the polluted well but continue to pump'a steady draw from the outlying wells, the fear
would be in 20 to 30 years the pollution would reach the outlying wells.
Councilman Orttel stated if it is found the nitrate level in the shallow wells is
high in Andover, the City would have to determine its obligation at that point. It
has been at least 11 years since shallow wells have not been acceptable water sources.
If the nitrate level is high, he felt in most instances a deep well, which is required
by code, would solve the problem. Should the City be putting in a water system to
correct the shallow well problem? He Þelt it would be much chepaer to put in deep
wells to solve that problem. The nitrate problem is not a result of the landfill.
Mayor Windschitl noted that because of the restrictions for well drilling placed by
the Health Department on a portion of our City, the cost of the well has doubled. But
is there any assurance thaLthe deep well wi 11 salve the problem?
It was felt by some that most of the wells in Red Oaks and Northwoods were deep wells,
because that was a requirement by most contractors even before the State requirement
in the early 1970s. Discussion was also on the method of drilling a well as to
whether that would encourage seepage of ground water to the lower aquifers. Mr.
Schumacher explained what is done when drilling a well, feeling a tight seal is created.
Discussion on the area to be covered in a municipal water system generally included
the area from the existing system.in the southwestern portion of the City, easterly
to the industrial area, southerly to the City border, and northerly to an area north
of Andover Bouelvard, suggesting the possibility of even including the City Hall site.
There were suggestions as to where a well might be placed, or possibly siting two
wells on either side of the landfill area to balance the underground draw. That is
Special City Council Meeting
March 8, 1983 - Minutes
Page 3
something that would have to be studied further as the plan is drawn up. The
suggestion not to drill a municipal well within six miles of a polluted site as was
suggested at a previous meeting would mean the well could not be drilled within the
City 1 imits. Plus it was thought that some wells in the City of Anoka are within
that distance of the landfill.
Mr. Schrantz stated the PCA has asked that the City come up with a contingency plan
for municipal water. The Clerk stated whatever funds the City expends for that plan can
be put toward the 10 percent matching funds, unless the City uses CDBG funds to pay
for that plan. She stated the PCA and County are coming out tomorrow with a cooperative
agreement on this matter. The Council had no problem with Mr. Schrantz meeting with
the PCA staff to go over the ideas for the contingency plan.
Mr. Schumacher explained the water system would be a pressure system and the siting
of the wells and tower generally are placed such to be the most economical, to run
the least amount of trunk, and to balance the system. The size of the pipe would
determine the amount of pressure. Mr. Schumacher stated some of the things that
would need to be investigated are the options of tying into the existing system right
away, of building another well and tank as a separate area, etc., and to determine
those costs. He stated in developing a system, they are looking at fire flows more
than at residential service.
Mr. Schumacher stated TKDA sent a letter to Mr. Schrantz estimating a cost of $4,500 to
do the study of the hazardous area on the PCA map for the contingency water plan.
Discussion was on whether or not the City would be allowed to use CDBG funds for this
study, generally agreeing that would be acceptable to the City if it is allowed.
Discussion was also on whether or not the City would be required to pay for the temporary
housing of the hazardous waste barrels once they are removed from the pit, with
suggestions as to what type of building it would be and where it would be located. The
Clerk was directed to check into this further.
Councilman Elling stated what the PCA wants to know is the area that would be covered
in the contingency plan and a ballpark figure on its cost. He didn't feel they would
go along with an area any larger than the area designated for special well construction
at this time, which is considerably smaller than what was being talked about this
evening. He also felt that the City should not get involved with the barrels in the
hazardous waste pit at this time as long as the County and PCA are moving on the problem.
Councilman Elling also suggested setting up a separate account for monies spent on this
matter, as all time and dollars, such as the time of the Engineer, secretarie~ etc.,
may be reimbursable. Council agreed with the last suggestion.
Others on the Council noted the area with the most eminent danger of water pollution
along Andover Boulevard wouldnot be inéluded if the PCA danger area is used as the
study area. It was generally felt the 1arger area should at least be presented first,
especially the area along Andover Boulevard, Hartfiel's and Lund's Evergreen Estates.
This is not an attempt to write a new comprehensive plan but to show the extra costs
involved to redesign the system to work around the pollution problem and to tie into
the existing system.
Mr. Schrantz also explained a map showing the cross section of aquifers in the area,
stating it is not known whether the clay layer is continuous. Assuming the clay layer
is continuous, there wouldnot be infiltration into the lower areas. If there are
breaks in it, however, there could be infiltration anywhere in the glacial drift plus
it couÎd also affect the larger aquifers which flow toward Minneapolis.
It was generally agreed that the contingency plan should be developed and to authorize
TKDA todo that plan at the $4,500 as they have quoted. Before making that authorization,
however, it was agreed to find out whether 01' not the City can use its CDBG funds toward
that study.
Special City Council Meeting
March 8, 1983 - Minutes
Page 4
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Lachinski, that we direct the City Clerk to present a
plan for partial use of our Community Development Block Grant Funds to the County
for the drafting of a contingency plan for city water in the sensitive area around the
landfi 11. DISCUSSION was the boundaries of the plan would be left to the discretion
of the engineers. If the project is funded, then a motion would be made to authroize
TKDA to do that~study as they have proposed. Motion carried unanimously.
nisrussion returned to possible uses of the remaining CDBG funds assuming the $5,000
will be allowed to be used for developing the contingency plan for municipal water.
Other suggestions made that the Clerk could ask about included constructing the bui lding
to temporarily house the barrels removed from the hazardous waste pit, doing something
along Bunker Lake Boulevard where the junkyards are located such as constructing a
more attractive fence, etc., doing something with the parks such as Kelsey Park,
developing biking or horseback riding trails, etc. It was also noted that the money
could be used to provide housing for the handicapped, or it could be loaned to another
city for this year, which would in effect mean the City would have both the ¡983 and
1984 allocations to use in 19S4. The Clerk was also asked to find out what some of
the other cities are doing with their funds. It was agreed to add this item to the
Agenda on Tuesday, March 15. By then the Clerk will have an answer as to what can or
cannot be done with the funds and the Council can discuss this further at that time.
Councilman Orttel stated in reading the list of contaminates in the hazardous waste pit
and in noting comments made over the years of how water travels and in talking to some
people, he felt things just didn't fit right. On Saturday he learned some very interesting
information from an individual about the hazardous waste in Andover, as that person was
directly involved in placing a lot of it for a large local manufacturing firm in Anoka
prior to the placement of the pit. Councilman Orttel stated the highest concentrated
chemical shown in the well is trichlorethylene. But there is none listed in the sheet~
showing the contents in the pit. Also, with underground water movement of three feet
per year, there is no way the contaminates could be coming from the pit, because the
pit has not been there long enough. What is bothering him is that the main chemicals
found in the ground were never put in the pit, and his worst fears are that the problem
probably did not result from the hazardous waste pit.
Councilman Orttel went on to say he feels the removal of the barrels from the pit are
important, but the bigger question is what if that isn't the cause of the problem.
According to the individual he talked to, that individual dumped barrels and barrels
of trichlorethylene into the landfill for 9~ years. The point is not all were put
0.·- in Andover, as a good share of them were put on the City's border in the old Anoka
landfi 11, though he has never seen any results from that particular location. That
particular company now has their own hazardous waste pit within the confines of their
property in Anoka. And nothing has ever been said about this.
Councilman Orttel stated it was confirmed by this same individual that these barrles
were also dumped somewhere along the Rum River and in the area of Crosstown Boulevard
and 165th. He stated there may be a very good case against the generator, though he
didn't know how identifiable it is. He felt they should be made to show their records,
but he didn't know how the City would go about that.
Mayor Windschitl suggested this individual be approached as to whether, or not he would
be willing to talk with the authorities about this. Councilman Elling suggested Colleen
Herman from the County Attorney's office be contacted, as she has done research on the
Waste Disposal site ever since Mr. Roth closed the landfill as far as the generators
and their liability.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Lachinski, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously.
Meet1ng adjourned at 9:37 p.m.
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