HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP December 10, 1979
~ o¡ ANDOVER
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING - DECEMBER 10, 1979
NI NUTES
A Special Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Jerry
Windschitl on December 10, 1979, 7:35 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown
Boulevard NW, for the purpose of discussing the landfill, engineering, and a fire
in the City last week.
Councilmen present: Lachinski, Orttel, Peach
Councilman absent: Jacobson
Also present: Anoka County Commissioner, Ed Fields; Director of Environmental
Services of Anoka County, Robert Hutchinson; and City Clerk,
P. K. Lindquist
Landfill Discussion
Mayor Windschitl explained the City received some information from Terry Reuther several
weeks ago, noting the Council had questions about the waste disposal pit and about
the results of the monitored wells at the landfill.
Mr. Hutchinson made the following comments: A hazardous waste pit was operated in
1972 and early 1973, but use of the pit was terminated because of questionable
operating procedures by the landfill operators. At that time the pit was sealed off,
capped and domed to shed water. In 1974 or 1975 four additional test wells were
placed on each side of the pit, which is located across the road from the office.
When the pit was sealed off, a manhole with locked cover was placed in the center
which extends to the bottom of the pit to be used for monitoring. He hadn't looked
in the manhole for about a year, but there wasn't any problem at that time. Ron Roth
applied to the PCA for a waste disposal pit, with his own engineers designing and
constructing the pit, excavating, lining it with 12 inches of compacted clay, placing
a 6-inch layer of asphalt on top and adding 12 inches of crushed limestone on it.
Mr. Hutchinson didn't have the exact figures with him this evening, but roughly
estimated the size of the pit was 80 feet long with 45 degree angled sides, 10 feet
deep, and 150 feet long, and estimated about 100,000 sealed containers of waste
in 5-, 15-, 30-, and 55-gallon cans were stored in the pit now. The reason they
pressured for the termination of the hazardous waste disposal pit was more the way it
was being operated than it was the site itself. It was operatp.d for about 14 to 15
months.
Mr. Hutchinson also stated: The original wells installed at the time the landfill
began were one in the southwest corner of the landfill close to the City's pond,
which has since been replaced with one further south; well no. 2 located in the northeast
corner; well no. 3 located closer to the office; and well no. 4 located toward the
old warehouse. Test results do show wells 2 and 3 have some chloride. The levels
indicated are not hazardous, but indicates that something has happened to the ground
water. They have always expected te~ch~teto be produced, but they were hoping to
control the rate of its production over a period of time. In 1976 or 1977 the landfill
started a lime sludge program. With limestone being a previous material, it is expected
to shed the water off the site faster and to reduce the amount of snow melt perculation,
thereby reducing the rate of :Jeaching. He felt it will have a positive affect.
In the long run, they did not see runoff causing a problem from a health or nuisance
standpoint because the groundwater flows towards the creek. Therefore, if there would
be leachate from the landfill, it would move with the groundwater toward the creek.
Secondly it is their belief that there is a fairly continuous layer of clay at a
depth of 20 to 40 feet which appears to underlie the entire county, which would
protect the deep wells. Mr. Hutchinson was not aware of any plans to move the contents
of the pit and didn't think anybody has talked about it beyond the present monitoring.
However, the containers are full of liquid; and in his judgement, they would eventually
decay.
Special City Council Meeting
December 10, 1979 - Minutes
Page 2
(Landfill discussion, Continued)
Mayor Windschitl stated if an agency has enough power to allow something to be
established, then they have the obligation to correct the problem. He couldn't
believe they would allow this to happen and then forget about it until something
happens to the ground water.
Mr. Hutchinson stated he never encouraged the establishment of a chemical waste
facility in any of the county's landfills, especially because of the kinds of soils
here. Within the containers are basically solvents, paint sludges, and acids. The
limestone is to neutralize the acids, but the paint sludges and solvents could be
troublesome. He has a list of some of the companies Waste Disposal was getting the
waste from, so it can be more accurately determined how much and what kind of wastes
are in the pit at this time. It was Mr. Hutchinson's opinion that the bottom of
the pit was five feet above the water table, as that was the requirement. Mayor
Windschitl argued that the water table is much closer to the bottom of the pit,
and expressed concern about the 114 houses in Red Oaks which depend on private deep
wells for their water. Also that in all the years he has been involved with the
City, he has never heard about this pit until several weeks ago.
Councilman Lachinski's basic problem is that the City depends upon individual well
systems for each home, but by monitoring the wells, the results over the past five
years are steadily getting worse. What are the results going to look like in five
years when the landfill is closed? And then who takes the burden of responsibility
when we have to put in a city water system? Mr. Hutchinson explained that since 1971
when they began looking at the sites, more precautions have been taken to prevent
contamination. He agreed that it probably would be the city'sre~onsibility should
central water need to be installed, but felt that Red Oaks would be protected because
the ground water flow, which was determined by the landfill engineer, is towards the
creek.
Mayor Windschitl questioned if the ground water flows towards the creek because of
the difficulty of making that determination; plus there are houses just across the
creek as well which he thought had shallow wells at this time. He felt the situation
is worse than he ever thought it was because of the size of the pit and the containers
being allowed to rust away and seep into the ground water. Especially since it is
within a few feet of the water table already. He asked what can we do to get the
barrels out of here before they completely rust and there is a major problem.
Mr. Hutchinson also stated that this is the only pit he has ever seen or knows about
with this type of construction. The engineers for the landfill designed this pit,
PCA reviewed it; and he thought that it was brought to the City in 1971 when it was
constructed. Other waste disposal landfills in the country at the present time are
in Iowa, Illinois, Arkansas, Missouri, and Kansas, but their soil conditions are
clay; and they depend on the soils to provide protection. He stated that once the
test wells show leachate around the pit, they could either irrigate the pit or
excavate it, but the question is where it would be taken from here. Mr. Hutchinson
did not think there were any herbicides, PCB's, etc., within the containers, but it
is not real specific as to exactly what is in them. He agreed that if there are a lot
of solvents in the containers, it could eventually dissolve the asphalt and penetrate
the limestone; so assuming the worst, it would eventually get into the water table.
At the time PCA required that every landfill have a hazardous waste pit. He
argued against it in Anoka County because of the soils and got that requirement
waived. Then Mr. Roth applied for a permit in 1971. Mr. Hutchinson also explained
that it is difficult to monitor what is coming into the landfill now, and explained
a program they are hoping to institute in the next year for monitoring the waste
disposal on the docks of the companies generating the waste, known as the hazardous
waste generator program.
Special City Council Meeting
December 10, 1979 - Minutes
Page 3
(Landfill discussion, Continued)
Mr. Hutchinson also explained that Melron, Inc., is the licensee for the landfill,
with Ron Roth being the president. Melron is a combination of four companies,
including Waste Disposal Engineering, Inc., Waste Control, Inc., plus one company
that sold waste disposal equipment and another that serviced this equipment. There
is a new site operator at the present time, but he is an employee of Melron. The
south and west slope terminal cover is on the landfill, and Mr. Roth has contracted
to have it seeded in the spring. One other area that has to be terminated is the
easterly 1/3 about 1/3 of the distance from the power lines to the west. That has
reached a point of elevation that should be terminated. There is lime sludge on it
and should receive terminal cover over the winter. An addendum is still needed
about the overfilling.
Councilman Orttel stated that part or all of the responsibility lies with the owners
and operators of the landfill. It seems as though the County, PCA, or EPA, would have
the ability to diagnose what the long-range affects the hazardous waste would be and
to determine how dangereous the situation is. The County has the background informa-
tion telling what is in there, reports on soil types, and then determine what the
potential is. If it is high, there are funds available from other governmental agencies
that would help alleviate the problem. We should do whatever we can now before the
problem is here.
Discussion was on the possible liability of the landfill owner. Melron presently
posts a $50,000 bond as required by the County to pay for the costs incurred by the
County for correcting any violation to the ordinance. Melron also carries insurance
but it is only liability insurance. Councilman Lachinski felt that a $50,000 bond is
not enough money, and that some escrow of funds or a more substantial amount of money
should be posted that would not be freed for 20 or 30 years to be used with the idea
of covering any potential hazard. He felt that now is the time to do this while
Melron is still in business and needs to be licensed.
Mr. Hutchinson stated there is nothing they can do about the landfill not being
open on Saturdays, but the posted hours are now 6 a.m. to 8 p.m.; and it has to be
open to anybody during those hours. If a resident is turned away during those
hours, that resident should contact his office, and they will take care of it. They
have tried to monitor the landfill to substantiate allegations that trucks are going
in there after hours, but it has been fruitless. Plus, Mr. Hutchinson stated, one
must actually see the trucks unloading after hours, not just entering the landfill.
When discussing the results of the tests done at the wells at the landfill, Mr.
Hutchinson stated that the numbers themselves aren't particularly important, but it
is the history that it tells us over a period of time. SC on the list is "specific
inductors", which is an indirect measure of undissolved material. The history from
wells 2 and 3 show that something is affecting the groundwater on a continuing basis;
and they expect it is the landfill. Apparently at the last testing, the PCA felt it
wasn't serious enough to investigate further. There is no monitoring beyond the creek.
Council discussion noted that according to the report they have received, tests
indicate those things being tested for in the wells are increasing every year; they
wondered when something was going to be done; and questioned if a crisis must evolve
first.
It was agreed that both the County and the City would contact the PCA, as this is
something they approved at that time. Using the records to determine what is in
there, knowing the soils condition and the construction of the pit, the PCA should be
able to tell how long the pit is good for, how many years before it would get into
the water system, when it will start, etc. Also, they could give the County enough
information to determine a bond amount, if necessary, for the landfill to post to
solve the problem. It was agreed to meet again the beginning of 1980; hopefully with
the PCA.
Special City Council Meeting
December 10, 1979 - Minutes
Page 4
(Landfill discussion, Continued)
Commissioner Fields stated he had not known of the magnitude of the pit but he would
speak with the County Attorney about the potential for damages, to see if a bond can
be required for it, and also as to the liability question. But he stated that this
is not the only landfill in Anoka County that people are complaining about, and what
the future will be relative to waste disposal, he didn't know. Most of the alternatives
mentioned are costly and would require the individual homeowner to pay more for waste
disposal. To date the politicians have not been willing to make a commitment on
waste disposal.
Mr. Hutchinson also stated he would send the City specific information relative to
the waste disposal pit. It was also requested that he supply a map of the landfill
showing the approximate locations of the test wells and the pit.
Mayor Windschitl thanked Commissioner Fields and Mr. Hutchinson for coming and stated
that this will be placed on a Council agenda again in January.
Recess at 9:02; reconvene at 9:10 p.m.
Engineering Matters
Council discussion was over the dissatisfaction of some services provided by TKDA,
on the advantages and desirability of having an in-house engineer representing the
City on projects and engineering matters, and on the possibility of changing
consulting firms. Discussion was on what would be the best way to proceed with
getting an in-house engineer; whether there is enough work in the City to support a
full-time engineer; that some of the other cities have expressed the same needs; on
the possibility of meeting with the surrounding cities to discuss the possibility of
a shared city engineer; and that the City of Ramsey is in the process of hiring their
own in-house engineer and possibily Andover could study the process they have gone
through to date in making that decision.
Council questioned the City's standards, suggesting they may be in excess of what is
needed in some cases; that there may be some less costly way of constructing roads in
the City than what has been done in the past; that an in-house engineer could continually
inspect the roads to determine trouble spots before they become serious; or he could
review and update the MSAH program; that the residents would be provided better service
with an in-house engineer; but that a consulting engineering firm would still be
needed for various projects, although different firms could be contracted for different
projects. Council also expressed particular concern over TKDA's cost to date on the
Alladin Acres/Section 17 proposed project, as it seems to be unusually high.
It was generally felt that in a shared engineer situation, that Andover would have
more work than either Ham Lake or East Bethel and that costs would be shared on a
percentage basis possibly by a Joint Powers Agreement. After a period of time, the
City would be in a better position to determine whether or not there is enough work
in the City for a full-time in-house engineer.
The Clerk was directed to contact the City of Ramsey asking them for their information
used to determine the need for hiring an engineer. She is also to write to the Cities
of Ham Lake and East Bethel asking them if they would be interested in sharing a
city engineer and meeting with the Andover City Council at a joint meeting. It was
suggested that this be done after the first of the year when the new councils of those
cities take office.
Special City Council Meeting
December 10, 1979 - Minutes
Page 5
Fire on 177th Last Week
Councilman Peach reported that at a house fire on 177th last week, Fire Chief Bob
Palmer and his partner from work, Jim Larson, responded to the fire, at which time
Mr. Larson saved the life of a four-year-old boy by rescuing him from the house
which was filled with smoke. He also stated that tomorrow morning at the Sheriff's
office, Mr. Larson will be presented a plaque and Chief Palmer a létter of
commendation.
Council discussion was that both men should be presented with a plaque by the City
and a Resolution along with the plaque. The Clerk was directed to purchase nice
plaques to be presented to both men along with a certificate or resolution of
commendation. The Clerk also informed the Council that she has ordered a radio for
the City grader.
MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Peach, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 10:16 p.m.
Respectfu lly submitted,.___
~~af
Recording Secretary
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