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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPH July 9, 1979 · ~ o¡ ANDOVER PUBLIC HEARING -- STREET IMPROVEMENTS IN SECTION 17 MINUTES - JULY 9, 1979 Pursuant to notice published thereof, a Public Hearing on the proposed street and drainage improvement project for Xenia Street, Vintage Street, 161st Avenue, lS8th Avenue, Aztec Street, Enchanted Drive, Genie Drive and Tulip Street was called to order by Mayor Jerry Windschitl on July 9, 1979, 7:30 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Anoka, Minnesota. Councilmen present: Jacobson, Lachinski, Orttel, Peach Councilmen absent: None Also present: City Engineers, John Davidson and Mark Schumacher; City Clerk, P. K. Lindquist; and approximately 200 interested residents Mayor Windschitl introduced the City Council and Staff and explained the procedure used at public hearings. He also explained the inability of the city to install sanitary sewer to the area involved according to the interceptor plans of the Metropolitan Waste Water Control Commission through the year 2050. Mr. Davidson reviewed the feasibility study dated June 5, 1979, outlining the location, initiation, right-of-way, easements, drainage, assessment policy, and proposed improvements with either rural or urban design for the 3.46 miles of street involved. The Engineer's estimate for the project for a rural design is approximately $712,838, which would amount to an estimated front foot assessment for streets of $19 and an estimated front foot assessment for storm sewers at $1.50; and the estimated cost for the project for an urban design is $612,463, which would amount to an estimated front foot assessment for storm sewer at $1.51 and an estimated front foot assessment,for the street construction at $16.11. Mr. Davidson also noted that normally the assessments can be financed for a 10-year period with interest of B percent on the unpaid balance, but this will be determined at the assessment hearing. Barring no delays in proceeding with the project, it is anticipated the project could be completed by November 15, 1979; however, should some unforeseen delays occur, the bituminous surfacing may have to be delayed until the spring of 1980. All basework and gravel should be completed this fa 11. Mayor Windschitl also explained the City's assessment policy in that each"project area pays for their particular project and On the policy used for corner lots. ¡.e also noted that at this time from petitions received, most everyone appears to be opposed on the east side of Tulip and 161st East of Tulip and those on Genie Drive in Alladin Acres. In the remaining project there is 34 percent of the assessable front footage in favor, 17 percent opposed, and 48 percent with no responses. The hearing was then opened to the residents for testimony. (Staff responses are shown in parentheses.) Rod Vosek, 16058 Xenia Street - signed yes on the original petition which stated $11 for a 32-foot wide road and $9.50 for a 28-foot wide street. However, when talking about $20 a front foot, he asked to change his vote to no. He didn't like the alternative of getting bituminous surfacing or nothing. Who paid for the gravel im- provement of 161st between County Road 9 and Tulip and why was that improved and not any other, especially since no one is living on it? (Mayor Windschitl explained that the City used some class 5 to improve bad sections of the road, but no substantial amount of road improvements have been done without being assessed.) Mr. Vosek - why can that section of road be improved with class 5 and that alternative lS not even being considered for other streets, Xenia for exarnp'ìe. Approximately 400 feet on Xenia was improved with class 5 about three years ago, which has held up quite well with little maintenance. The rest of the road is dirt and in very bad condition, and he would like to see it improved. Why isn't class 5 considered? (Mayor Windschitl stated there is nothing that would prevent class 5 improvement from being considered, Public Hearing --Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 2 but the biggest problem with it is the dust. For stability, there is no question that Class 5 would make a better road than what is presently there, and it could be done.) Mr. Vosek - asked if the Council would consider class 5 if a petition were brought in supporting that. (Councilman Lachinski explained that Xenia Street has already been approved for some minor amounts of class 5 this year if this project is not approved. He also outlined the Road Improvement Committee's procedure of determining which roads are to be improved with class 5 so that the road can be adequately maintained. By doing Tulip, it was felt that a large number of residents would be served and it would get the traffic out to Round Lake Boulevard rather than through the Addition.) Jack Menkveld, GM Investment com~ - owns two lots on Enchanted Drive, north side - Because of the 011 allocatlons, e questioned if contractors could work to November 15 to complete the project, as last year they had projects close down the end of October because the paver's oil allocation was short. What happens with spring run-off if urban-type streets are not paved in the fall? Will the bid price be held for the paving if it is held over to the next construction season? He didn't think it was reasonable to expect the work to be done this season. (Mr. Davidson explained if the contractor's work is held over for reasons he has no control over, it is a litigimate reason to carry the project over. It is a question whether he would guarantee the price through the winter months. Recent bids have been a qualified price of the mix to reflect increases from the time between the bid and project. By placing base material this fall, there will be some gutter erosion; and it will have to be regraded in the spring, but there aren't any exceptionally steep grades that would cause any severe erosion. This is a tight schedule, so if there are any delays in the process, he recommended delaying it until the next year.) Mr. Menkveld - noted the prices of earth moving, asphalt, etc., are rising rapidly because of the fuel situation. If it is done, it should be done as quickly as possible to avoid a 25 percent overrun next spring. (Mr. Davidson explained the spiriling costs of projects and felt that these rising costs have been projected in the cost estimate proposed.) Mr. Menkveld - didn't feel he had a vote since they own the property but don't have any construction on it. He felt if it is done, it should be done as expeditiously as possible because of the anticipated price increases. Craig Jeska, 16021 Vinta~e Street - approves the project wholeheartedly for alternative No.2. He frequently drlves 161st to Round Lake Boulevard and felt that should be tarred as well as the rest of it. Mrs. Dale Pirkl on 161st and Xenia - lived there ~ years. 161st Street was always better than Xenla. She llved in Crystal for 6 years before coming out here, where they were told exactly the same thing two years apart -- that the upgrading of the street was necessary. They paid for the street and two years later they came through with sewer. If Andover grows at the rate it is now, she didn't think anyone could give any guarantees that there isn't going to be a new sewage plant built in Anoka to take care of Andover and Ramsey. Two years later they came with water, so they paid for their street three times, and she's looking at the same thing happening here. She's not very happy with the prospect. If the November 15 date does not follow through, she felt they are going to pay up to 25 percent more. And if the oil cartel decides to increase its rates again, we would pay more than 25 percent increase. She felt it is rediculous to put blacktop down now. Why not wait until sewer and water are ready to come through. Class 5 does work and it is good, but the whole street needs it -- Xenia, Enchanted Drive, Gene. Dale Guimont, 16007 Xenia - has class 5 in front of his house, and it has been pretty good. He hasn't noticed any dust from that. He does have a problem in that every time it rains, all the fine silt from the road rushes down to his yard. He would like to see some improvement, either class 5 or bituminous surfacing. Public Hearing -- Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 3 Roger Sharon, 15931 VintaTe NW - would like to see the improvements. He asked what is considered lowlands. Wou d they be fenced? Would culverts be put in? (Mr. Davidson explained the areas colored in blue on the maps which are presently landlocked lowlands were taken off topographical maps. Some hold water and some hold water only for short periods of time. It would not be the purpose of the program to change the natural drainage. In the final design, if it appears that the tributary area in an unusual rainfall would cause damage to private property, some emergency overflow system would be studied. For the urban section, catch basins would be built to catch water and pipe it to the low areas. Water would be running over the surface perhaps 500 feet before collecting to a catch basin. The land isn't going to be any different than it is now. According to statistics, ponds and wetlands are more hazardous if they are fenced than if they are gradually graded ponds.) Mr. Sharon - how many ponds in the area of lS7th and Xenia? A petition brought to him showed two ponds in the back of his house, and he never has water standing there. (Mr. Davidson explained where the ponds are proposed.) Dale Bower, 3720 161st Avenue - owns the lot where a pond is shown in the front yard, and he has a problem with that because he didn't agree with the theory of drainage. He doesn't get runoff from the entire length of road because it soaks into the ground. (The Engineers explained that they are not saying the entire street would be drained to that point, as there may be a break at some point. It was pointed out that the final designs haven't been done, so the size of the ponds haven't been determined nor where water is actually flowing. They are proposing trying to maintain the existing drainage as much as possible, and whatever steps are necessary would be taken to properly take care of the drainage. All ponds shown mayor may not be used in the final design. It is not the City's intent to flood anybody's yard. If these natural drainage areas weren't used, then some very high storm sewer costs would be incurred to accommodate running drainage a considerable distance. Mayor Windschitl explained that a City cannot create more water nor do damage to private property without either acquiring the easements or getting water out some way. So if you don't have a pond or lowland now, you shouldn't end up with one. Mayor Windschitl also explained the problems the City has had in grading the roads and noted the experience of the staff in the Public Works Department and that bids have been let for the new road grader. Future road grading and snow plowing will be done by City staff so Council will have a better control over it and, hopefully, will do a better job on it.) Mr. Sharon - asked about the proposal for the City sewer in their area. (Mayor Wlndschltl again explained that the local officials have no control over the interceptor lines, and reviewed MWWCC's interceptor plans through the year 2050.) Greg Webster, 3930 Enchanted Drive - is not on any petition but is strongly in favor of the second proposal. He has been living in Andover for five years and has been waiting for improvements during that time. If some improvement is not done this fall or spring, they will be moving out, as they are tired of the dust, potholes, fixing cars, etc. Rick Olson, 3936 Enchanted Drive - felt some serious problems have not been looked at, especially the total expense to people who can't afford it. One of the main streets is Xenia, which is terrible, and something should be done with that. He stated the Council failed to consider a huge area up there, those who live on Enchanted Drive and take the west route out. They will still be going out on gravel roads. Blacktop for him will be of no benefit at all, considering the portion of the road he lives on is perfectly all right. They would be paying for improvements for the entire area but would not be benefiting from them. His father is street superintendent in Eau Claire, Wis., and has noted that it is now illegal for them in Eau Claire to put blacktop roads in unless all improvements are put in at the same time, due to the fact that installations happen faster than are forecast. He had a problem with paying for roads a second time. Also, it takes a lot of distance for the road improvement for landscaping. Who pays for Public Hearing -- Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 4 that? (Mayor Windschitl explained that Minnesota law doesn't allow someone to be re- assessed twice. You can be reassessed for a similiar-type project after the bond has been paid off. If the bond is 10years,you wouldn't be reassessed for a street until the end of the bond. Discussion noted that for the rural street, principal and interest for an average lot over a 10-year period would be $4,373 and $3,757 for the urban-type street. Mayor Windschitl explained that landscaping has either been included in the project or excluded to let each property owner do it themselves. This project has no costs for landscaping outside of the black dirt. However, if anything is disturbed on private property, it is returned to the same condition prior to construction. It is done as equitable as possible.) Mr. Webster - has been with Environmental Studies for a long time. If you plan on using those water sites, there will be an incredible amount of water increase in those ponds. Three years ago the water was up into his yard on the side; now it is not. His house is built on a lot that was at one time unbuildable because it is too close to the marsh. There are two or three houses on the other side of the marsh in the same situation, which have basements collapsing now;'and there are other lots that have been filled with plans to build houses on. If you increase the water in those ponds, he felt five or six homes will have their basements under water. Mr. Webster also stated their driveway sits below the grade of the road. Across the street are people who have hills that go down to the road. Consequently, doing the drainage as suggested, you are going to have to drop the level of that road three or four feet. (Mr. Davidson indicated they haven't done any detailed surveys, so in the process they will equalize the elevation of the streets and will relate the costs of constructing the street to a different elevation to drain the driveway versus finding an alternative method of draining the driveway. The entire process is one of doing the project at the least cost. It costs money to maintain dirt or gravel streets, and, from experience, house- wives become tired of the dust from gravel roads. He felt the method least costly to the City generally is, as streets are built, that they are surfaced. If the City has to buy drainage easements, it is going to increase the cost of the project and everyone will have to pay for that cost. We think we have protected ourselves in the figures given to say that we can reasonably design a system that is going to work with those general figures. We do take into account the environmental impacts that relate to storm water.) Mr. Webster - there are many of us that can afford $11 or $9 a front foot and also many of us that will have to sell if we own double lots because we can't afford that additional amount of money. What worries him more than anything else is the way prices are going. By the time this project starts, he would expect prices will be up an additional amount. And if it is postponed until the following spring, it is going to be more yet -- possibly as much as $6,000 to $6,500. He is not in favor of the project; but he is in favor of some road improvements like class 5, which is working well in all locations it is put in in Eau Claire. Dick Bucher, 3919 Enchanted Drive - is in favor of the blacktopping. He felt that class 5 was unacceptable because of the roughnp.ss -- it is rough on the cars, cars losing mufflers, etc. He works for Pigs Eye plant for three years, and they are trying to build it as fast as they can to keep up with the sewer they have. So he didn't think they are worred about getting ours. He didn't feel the streets would be dug up for sewer in the next 10, 20, or 40 years. He also noted that he has four neighbors that couldn't make it this evening that are also in favor of the project. Mary Fahnlander, 3931 158th Avenue - they're marked on the map as a yes, and the Council should not necessarily take all the XiS as a valid yes because the information they received when signing the petition was so drastically different. They are a no, opposed to the project. Public Hearing -- Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 5 Mrs. Royce Bennett, on the corner of 161st and Tulip - owns 80 along 161st plus a 20 on rulip, which amounts to a large amount of money. (Mayor Windschitl stated on Tulip and on 161st there are only a few houses in favor with the bulk of the property opposed to the project.) Mrs. Bennett - explained they have the total length on 161st and on the other end of Tullp they are on both sides of the road because the road goes through their property. The drainage shown off 161st is in the middle of théir potatoe field, which is how they make their living. By taking too much ground from them, they won't be able to make a living, much less pay the assessments. She has seen an Anoka County map which shows in the next five years 161st will be the main route from Forest Lake to Elk River, which at that time it will become a 120-foot wide state road. This would be spending money to put in a tar road to have the state come in to redo it anyway. (Mayor Windschitl stated the Anoka County thoroughfare plan shows that plan and noted the Council recognizes the problem they have with their property.) Mrs. Bennett - has lived there for 27 years. They're just little farmers and didn't know how they'd be able to pay the assessment. They're opposed to the project. (Mayor Windschitl explained if the Council ordered Tulip and/or 161st, any property in Green Acres is exempt from the assessment payments for as long as it is in Green Acres. If it is sold and remains in Green Acres, it was his understanding that the assessments are still deferred. The general revenue of the City funds are having to pay the deferred assessments until such time as the money is collected. Mr. Davidson stated they would have to pay the assessment plus interest plus the previous three- years' taxes at the time it changes status. And if the person they sell to continues to make at least 50 percent of his income from the farm, it can continue to carry the Green Acres status.) And~ Lantos, corner of Tulip and 161st - is not on any petitions and voices his opinion agalnst any lmprovements at all. Mrs. William Steffes, 16005 Tuli~ - recently purchased 10 acres on Tulip. They are a young couple who waited a long tlme to be able to build a house they have been saving for. They cannot afford the improvement, and felt there are alot of them that cannot afford the improvement. She felt if people would use more sensible driving habits, it would calm down the dust a lot. Laurence Reynolds, 15951 Tulip Street - the pond shown on the Engineer's map would be ln hlS garden. There is a bank there that water does not rUn over but runs down into Davis' driveway. So every time it rains, Davis has to be pulled out of his driveway. He thought if it is graded properly and taken care of properly, the existing road is good enough. Don Gulso, 16025 Vintage Street - has been there for six years, and is tired of mud and dust. He is ln favor of the project. Forrest Cerny, 15934 Xenia - felt the Council should take a vote On who wants the road and who doesn't and make a decision on this to stop the arguing back and forth. He knew that a good part of the people on Xenia want it blacktopped. He is in favor of blacktopping. John Car~, 16147 Genie Drive - is in favor of the project. He walked the petition on Genle Drlve and had flve slgnatures, but he didn't turn it in because of the price difference. Every time it rains, he has half the street washing down in front of his house. When it rains, it is like quicksand on the bottom of Genie Drive. (Mayor Windschitl asked for a show of hands from those in Alladin Acres who were in favor of or opposed to the project. There were 10 opposed and 9 in favor of the project.) Mr. Aane~ Aanehson, 16293 Valley Drive - took the petition to everyone on Genie Drive and they were al I no's wlth only two yeses. If there are more yeses now, they have changed their minds. The petition was what the City Clerk had told him to say on it. Public Hearing -- Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 6 Dan Janiga, 15950 Xenia Street - was in favor of starting the petition originally. He felt everyone is saYlng they want some road improvements but are worried about the costs. He asked what the cost differential is between class 5 improvements and bituminous surfacing and asked that the options available to improving the streets be looked at and voted on. He felt we need the data for that. He then related to the problems he has had getting from his house to County Road 20 during emergencies. Jeanette Schauer, 3961 Enchanted Drive - lives at the cul de sac on Enchanted Drive that is now a street going to the west. She goes out to the west, but if it was blacktopped, she wouldn't have to go out that way. She thought most of the people are concerned about that area, Aztec and Xenia mostly, which are the worst. She was concerned about the drainage in that pond, as her basement is sinking and she doesn't want any more unhappiness as far as improper drainage. She would like to know more about that at a later date if this project is to go ahead. She's tired of the dust and they have put gravel there themselves to keep the dust down and to keep water out of their yard. Recess at 9:05 to allow residents to check with the Clerk and Recording Secretary as to the accuracy of their vote. Reconvened at 9:25 p.m. Mr. Davidson explained that the 7-ton road road is capable of withstanding heavier loads on an occasional basis. The street system is rated not only on weight of the load, but with the amount of use at which they occur. A 9-ton road is typically a collector or arterial-type street. To determine the cost for just the class 5 improvement, he explained you can subtract $3.96 for the blacktopping for the rural design. From the urban design, which is a wider street, $5.25 can be subtracted to determine the cost of class 5 improvement of the roads. ? - buses are driving on the roads morning, noon, and night, plus garbage trucks three days a week, plus other heavy trucks. How long will 1\ inches of bituminous surfacing last then? (Mr. Davidson stated if there is a problem with continued heavy traffic of trucks -- and he didn't think school buses or garbage trucks were a bother -- then the design should be looked at. Garbage trucks are quite responsible about loading on those kinds of streets and are responsible for any damage they cause.) ? - didn't think the inch and a half of blacktop is going to last on a four- lnch base. (Mr. Davidson explained that with a graded gravel base and 1\ inch bituminous surface plus a birm section so the edge doesn't ravel, such streets have been in existence for over 25 years. The City maintains the streets once they have been approved. If they have to be replaced during the bonding period, the City at large pays to replace them. But constructing the road to City standards and with a seal coating maintenance program, those streets will last indefinitely. He also stated that by financing the street for over a 20-year period, one pays more for the street because the interest will more than double for that second lO-year period. It would cost the amount it would take to add another 1 to 1\ inches of blacktop to make it a 9-ton road. The road can be increased to 9-ton in the future if it is desired. Councilman Lachinski also noted that a class 5 project cannot be assessed over 10 years, since we know it won't last for more than five years. John Peterson, 16120 Vintage - does the homeowner have an option of financing over 10 or 20 years? (Mayor Wlndschitl stated it is a Council decision.) How is 8 percent determined? (The Mayor stated the interest is approximately one percent over what the bonds are sold for. It could conceivably be below 8 percent. Mayor Windschitl also noted that apparently there is some question on assessable front footage versus an equal assessment of so much per lot. He clarified the present policy that was established by Council action, which is an attempt at equalizing the assessments. If the majority of the Council chose to change it, it could be done. The attempt was to try to make the policy as fair as possible. Apparently there is a reasonable amount of sentiment among Public Hearing - Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 7 the group that a per-lot assessment rather than a front-footage assessment would be more acceptable. Mayor Windschitl stated that in Alladin Acres the new tally after the recess is three in favor, the remaining opposed, noting the confusion of what they want there. Mrs. Ron Chamberlain, 4011 Genie Drive ? - asked if Alladin Acres doesn't want it and t e rest 0, oes t at mean enle Drlve lS also done as a total project? (Mayor Windschitl stated the Council is waiting for the Clerk to retabulate the polls to determine the percentage of those favoring or opposing the project.) Marv Ganz, 16024 Tulip - Tulip is better than average and wondered once it is paved are they going to be able to get more police patrolling to keep the speed down, because there are a lot of kids playing on that street. (Mayor Windschitl stated an effective program has been to have the Anoka County Sheriff do a saturation-type patrol with radar for a period of time.) Mr. Richard Davis, 15944 Tulip Street - asked why speed signs or caution/children signs can't be put up on the end of the street. (Mayor Windschitl explained that putting up restrictive signs is controlled by the State, and he explained the procedure to initiate the process. Discussion was on the problems with lowering the speed limit.) Mr. Davis - has given the police permission to park on his property to monitor the road, but they haven't done it. He expressed concern over the safety of chi1dren in the area because of excessive speed over the street. (Mayor Windschitl stated the Clerk will relate the problem to the Anoka County Sheriff.) General discussion on the project itself as to which streets should be done, noting the problem with doing 161st east of Tulip since a majority of landowers are opposed; however, there is a development under construction south of that road, a proposed development to the north, plus a proposed rezoning to Neighborhood Business on the northwest corner of 161st and County Road #9, all of which will be existing onto 161st. It was also noted that the City has recently adopted the policy requiring all interior streets of a development to be blacktopped. Mr. Davidson reported in a few areas there is a possibility that it would be more economical to put in a rural section rather than urban section, and that might possibly be true along 161st or a portion of it. This will be looked at when doing the final design. Because the City Clerk was still tabulating the results of the changes in votes made by residents during the recess, it was agreed to begin discussion on the rezoning request of Mr. Skeim until such time that the tabulation is completed. Public Hearing resumed at 10:08 p.m. Mayor Windschitl reviewed the results excluding Alladin Acres, Tulip Street, and 16lst east of Tulip: 40 percent yes, 28 percent no, with no answer from the balance. Broken down according to assessable front footage, the results are: Xenia Street: 2670 Yes Aztec Street: 450 Yes 2195 No o No Vintage Street: 2351 Yes Enchanted Drive: 1849.5 Yes 1693 No 551 No lS8th Avenue: 214 Yes 901 NO It was explained that those lots along 161st have their short sides on either Xenia, Vintage, or Tulip and are included in those totals. The respOnses received from residents along Tulip indicate a majority in opposition to the project, as was a majority opposed in Alladin Acres. Public Hearing - Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 8 Councilman Lachinski felt that a substantial amount of traffic would want to exit through 161st and that it seems that residents wouldn't want to pay their assessments just to exit onto a gravel road. Also, 161st could be done at a lower cost than the other streets. He wondered if there would be some way to give additional consideration to equalizing the cost somewhat to those larger lots in terms of the assessment, as those corner lots may be paying twice what the other lots in the area are paying. Mrs. Bennett - stated on 161st they have 1320 feet of frontage. She figured at $20 a front foot, it would cost $26,400 with an annual interest of $2,112. MOTION by Peach, Seconded by Orttel, that Alladin Acres and Tulip Street be terminated as part of the proposed improvement. Motion carried unanimously. MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Lachinski, to exempt from the project those streets north of 161st Avenue NW, namely Vintage Street north of 161st Avenue NW and Xenia Street north of 161st Avenue NW except for those lots that border 161st Avenue NW. Discussion: Mayor Windschitl and Councilman Lachinski stated they didn't feel comfortable looking at the map they have indicating the residents' choice on the project. Discussion was on the reason for exempting that area, that the map before the Council has a majority in opposition to the project. The question is if that area is removed from the project, what affect it would have on the drainage. It is generally not a desirable situation to assess residents for drainage but not improve the roads in front of their property. Councilman Lachinski again expressed a desire that special consideration be given to large lots to come up with a logical flow of traffic in the area over all tarred roads. Mr. Schumacher stated that doing 161st as a separate project would cost substantially less as the drainage is essentially there already and is basically a rural section of roadway nOw. It could be separated out of the project and done separately. Discussion was on the possibility of l61st being done as a County road. Mr. Skeim stated he is donating the right of way, and others probably would be willing to donate the right of way necessary for a county road if the county would share in the construction of 161st or do all of it. Mayor Windschitl stated that possiblity could be looked into with the County. Mable Palmquist - wondered why the people are asking for blacktopped roads when they moved out there they knew the condition of the roads. Mrs. Janiga, 15950 Xenia - stated the roads have deteriorated considerably from the time they first moved there, especially Xenia. Mayor Windschitl stated from the count the Council has, the area affected in Councilman Jacobson's motion is 7 in favor, 7 in opposition. Forrest Cerny - wouldn't those people also share in the benefit of being able to drive on blacktop to get to their place? (Mayor Windschitl stated his objection is that they could end up with a drainage assessment but with no street, which might be objectionable to those residents.) VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Jacobson, Peach; NO-Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl Motion defeated. Discussion was on the remainder of the project. In addressing the question of 161st Avenue, Councilman Lachinski was concerned that residents have tarred roads to drive on all the way to County Road #9. Councilman Peach stated the people are paying for the street in front of their homes, not for any other benefits; and we don't owe them 161st if we are going to pave in front of their homes. He felt that 161st from Tulip east should be considered as a separate question. Councilman Lachinski felt that if that section of 161st east of Tulip were not done at this time, it is unlikely it would be petitioned for improvement in the near future. He suggested figuring out a way to spread that cost over the rest of the project and possibly reducing not only Mr. Bennett's front foot cost but other larger lots in the area as well. Public Hearing - Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 9 MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, entering a Resolution ordering the improvement of Bituminous Streets with Storm Sewers for 161st Avenue NW from Round Lake Boulevard to Xenia Street; Xenia Street from County State Aid Highway #20 to its northerly extension in Section 17; Vintage Street in Section 17; and lS8th Avenue NW west of Xenia Street to Aztec Street; and Aztec Street north to Enchanted Drive; and Enchanted Drive north to Alladin Acres; and directing the City Engineer to prepare Final Plans and Specifications... (...WHEREAS a Resolution by the City Council adopted the 5th Day of June, 1979, accepted a feasibility report and set a date for a public hearing...; ...AND WHEREAS testimony and petitions presented at the public hearing indicated desirous opinion of the improvement of the project...; ...NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by the City Council, City of Rndover, to hereby order the improvement of bituminous street for the previously mentioned streets...; ...BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED by the City Council that 161st be built with the least expensive method) Discussion: Councilman Lachinski included 161st in the project with the idea that what we are doing at this point is ordering the detailed plans and specifications; and if we can't come to some general agreement by the Council that it should be included at that point, it should be dropped. The Engineer suggested that 161st be done at the least cost (either rural or urban section). There may be other areas where it may be cost effective to do one or the other design; the detailed design would point that out. MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Orttel, to close the public portion of the hearing. Motlon carried unanimously. AMENDMENT TO MOTION (ordering the improvement) by Peach, that 161st Avenue east of Tullp be exempted from the project. Motion dies for lack of a second. Discussion: The portion of Enchanted Drive included in this motion is up to Alladin Acres and only that portion in Section 17. Councilman Peach felt there was not a majority of people in favor of 161st Avenue east of Tulip. If that portion is excluded, he felt there was a majority favoring the project; but he couldn't vote in favor of the motion as it stands. He is aware that there are plats On the north and south side of 161st east of Tulip, but his tabulations indicate they are against the project. Mr. Skeim is the fee owner of some of the property on the north, but he wouldn't comment on this project until the proceedings on his rezoning request are decided. Ms. Palmquest is the owner of the farm that the Strawberry Commons is being proposed. If that project (referring to Strawberry Commons) goes through, then she would be in favor of doing that portion of 161st east of Tulip. If it doesn't go through, then she would vote against the improvement. VOTE ON MOTION ORDERING THE IMPROVEMENT: YES-Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl; NO- Jacobson, Peach. Motion carried ona 3/2 vote; however, a 4/5 vote is required to order the project inasmuch as the petition had not been declared and publicized as adequate. Motion failed. MOTION by Peach; to introduce the identical motion as presented by Councilman Lachinski excluding 161st Avenue NW east of Tulip Street. Motion dies for lack of a second. Forrest cern~ - asked the feasibility of making the portion of 161st an extension of County Road 0 to have the benefit of making it a county road. (Mayor Windschitl stated we will talk to Paul Ruud, Anoka County Highway Engineer, to see if he would be agreeable to doing something like that. Councilman Orttel noted this road does not meet the criteria for County State Aid roads, and that it was his contention that the proposed route from Forest Lake to Elk River is no longer being considered.) Public Hearing - Street Improvements in Section 17 July 9, 1979 - Minutes Page 10 Dave Tjaden, 3963 Enchanted Drive - asked if the people along Enchanted Drive going towards Dakota Drlve were contacted about tonight's meeting, and has there been any indication from those people. (Mayor Windschitl stated those people were notified.) Further Council discussion: Councilman Peach didn't have any trouble approving the area north of 161st on Xenia and Vintage, but didn't see anybody on 161st east of Tulip in favor of the project and felt this is assessing the people on 161st to benefit the rest of the people. He felt that was the improper way to do it. Counc il- man Orttel couldn't see approving a commercial development that is going to haul traffic from Seventh over without putting in a street to haul it on. We also know of the plats on both sides of the area of 161st in question, of which 500 feet of that in Pine Hills is city park. The Clerk showed Councilman Jacobson her tally for those streets north of 161st in the project. Mayor Windschitl stated the question om161st gets to be are you going to end up with all the people that are in the platted areas coming back in here for a public hearing or are you going to assess the developer right now. MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, to reinstate the prior motion made by Councilman Lachinski on the improvement of the project. (See Resolution RS2-9) Discussion: Mr. Bennett stated it costs a lot of money and expressed disappointment in his neighbors over the entire situation. VOTE ON MOTI ON: YES-Jacobson, Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl; NO-Peach Motion carried. Mayor Windschitl explained the procedures followed in proceeding with the project. The Council still has the option of rescinding the project should the bids come in too high. Discussion was generally over the assessment policy and possibly giving consideration for the larger lots. Show of hands indicated the majority of people exited from the area via 161st Avenue. There was also some concern expressed that the people on Tulip would be benefiting from the tarred roads but would not have to pay for it. Mrs. Bennett - expressed fear that there would be a casualty on the corner of 161st and Tulip shortly after the blacktop is put in due to excessive speed. She indicated that drivers do not stop for the signs that are installed there now. It is also a blind corner. (Mayor Windschitl indicated the safety problem, the question of large lots, and the design of the road on 161st can be addressed when the final plans and specifications are drawn up.) MOTION by Orttel, Seconded by Jacobson, that we close the Public Hearing on the Improvements in Section 17 and Section 18. Motion carried unanimously. Public Hearing closed at 11:11 p.m. _', Respectfully sUb7~ ~ ((... ",~l Marce la A. Peach C Recording Secretary ,\", \ ,l "1\ ' , 1\ ' . Qfl ~ '¡'