HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC March 20, 1979
~ o¡ ~r--JDOVER
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING - MARCH 20, 1979
AGENDA
1. Call to Order - 7 :30 P. M.
2. Resident Forum
3. Agenda Approval
4. Public Hearings - None
5. Legal and Engineering
a. Caswell Appeal-Midwest Planning Fees
b. Linstad-Lot Split
c. Larson/Hanson-Variance
d. Pine HillS-P£,~~inary Plat 7
e. North Birch· Estates - Preliminary Plat
f. 167th Lane CuI de Sac
g. DeGardner_ Road Location ,
h.
6. Ordinances and Resolutions
a. Ordinance No. BD (Junkyards /Special Use)
7. Petitions, Reque sts, C ommunciations
a. Bingo License -AA/St. Patrick's Church
b. Cigarette, N. I. Malt Liquor Off Sale Licenses - Tom Thumb Store
8. Reports of Commissions, Committees, Boards
a. Planning and Zoning Commission
b. Park and Recreation Commission
c. Volunteer Fire Department
d. Legislative Committees
9. Old Business
a. Clerk/Typist Position
10. New Business
a.
11. Approval of Minutes
12. Approval of Claims
13. Adjournment
~ o¡ ANDOVER
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING - MARCH 20, 1979
MINUTES
The Regular Bi-t10nthly Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by
Acting Mayor Kenneth Orttel on March 20, 1979, 7:34 p.m., at the Andover City Hall,
1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Anoka, Minnesota.
Councilmen present: Jacobson, Lachinski, Peach
Councilman absent: Mayor Windschitl
Also present: City Attorney, William G. Hawkins; City Engineer, John
Davidson; Planning and Zoning Chairperson, d'Arcy Bosell;
and interested residents
Agenda Approval
MOTION by Peach, Seconded by Jacobson, that we accept the Agenda as presented with
the deletion of Item 5a; Addition of Item 7c, Stenquist Addition; and the Addition
of Item 8a, Clerk/Typist Position. Motion carried unanimously.
Stenquist Addition Petition
Acting Mayor Orttel explained a petition has been received containing an excess of
the required 35 percent of landowners for the improvement of streets in the Stenquist
Addition. The feasibility report has already been completed. Mr. Davidson stated
the suggestion is that the public hearing be held on April 17, as that is the soonest
it can be held due to legal requirements of publication, etc. The plans and specs
for the lS9th Avenue Street Improvement Project are completed and were to be approved
tonight; however, it has been revised so they will be before the Council at the next
meeting. Perhaps the two projects could be bid simultaneously to obtain a more
favorable price on the project, if the council so desires. There is still a chance
that this improvement project would be denied, and we would not want to hold up the
other project. Mr. Davidson felt the assessment for both projects could be combined,
but the costs for just the lS9th Avenue project were not appreciably different than
what was presented at the public hearing in January. When the plans and specs of
that project are brought before the Council at the next meeting, a decision can be
made on whether or not to bid the two projects together, assuming the Stenquist Addition
project is approved.
George Kerr, 4644 161st Lane NW - wondered if Acting Mayor Orttel had contacted Ramsey
or Ham Lake to find out how they assess their projects. Acting Mayor Orttel stated
that Ham Lake's policy was different from this in that they had done some work on the
street which wasn't figured in the assessment. Ramsey uses a different assessment
policy in that they figure up what the total project is going to cost and divides it
by the number of lots, so that everyone pays the same. He'll be checking further into
this before the public hearing.
MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Lachinski, introducing a Resolution declaring the
adequacy of the petition for the Street Improvement for the Stenquist Addition ...
(See Resolution R17-9) Motion carried unanimously.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Jacobson, introducing a Resolution acceptin9 a
feaslbility report and setting a date for the Improvement of Bituminous Streets and
Storm Sewer in the Stenquist Addition ...(Public Hearing set for April 17 at 7:30
at the Andover City Hall) (See Resolution R18-9) Motion carried unanimously.
Mel Eshelman, 4754 160th Lane NW - asked if the City would try to get these streets
done at the same time lS9th lS done. Also asked when they would be let out and if the
project would be done this year. Acting Mayor Orttel stated if possible, they would
be done together. We feel we might be able to get a better bid for getting them done
together. The project should be done somtime this spring.
-
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 2
(Stenquist Addition Petition, Continued)
Mr. Eshelman - wondered if there is any way that just prior to the hearing the City
could actually take a petition around to see how people feel. In talking with
people who signed the last petition opposing the project, he found that they thought
they were signing expecting to get the streets. They still wanted streets, but
wanted to explore a cheaper avenue. Those people were not opposed to the roads but
only to the higher prices, and they thought that is what they were signing with the
second petition. Could the City poll the people and tell them exactly what it is and
that there are no other possible alternatives? Acting Mayor Orttel stated this
petition is a lot clearer than the one received last time because there were conditions
on the last one. It seems like everyone was for it at the last public hearing until
that evening when the Council was surprised with the petition of those opposing. He
felt the only poll would be one that the Councilmen would conduct themselves individually,
as petitions are always subject to interpretation. Councilman Jacobson felt the people
should testify at the public hearing on April 17 to let the Council know their feelings.
Mr. Eshelman - asked how the Councilmen would weigh another petition coming in prior to
a hearing. He knows what happened to a lot of them last time, as they thought they
were signing for the project but at less cost. How would you handle that at the time
of the meeting? Acting Mayor Orttel explained that the petition validated tonight
is the one that generates the public hearing. Anything that happens after this time
is more or less taken as testimony and each Councilman has to decide what information
they are going to look at. We try to let all people have their say and try to go with
the majority. Mr. Davidson stated maybe he could spend more time explaining that we
are not establishing price at the hearing and that by law we must take the lowest bid.
Acting Mayor Orttel also stated that in this area there are many corner lots that
really has an impact on the front-footage cost. If we could see a running foot figure
broken out as a comparison, part of the problem might be resolved.
Mr. Kerr - wondered if in the meantime it would be possible to get a couple loads of
gravel-on lS9th to be able to get through there, as it is getting pretty bad there.
Acting Mayor Orttel stated Mr. Sowada will go up there tomorrow to look at it.
Mr. Eshelman - stated that yesterday the grader came through, but he didn't do much.
He llves on a deadend and the grader did not grade his road. He is the only house
on that portion of the street. Acting Mayor Orttel explained this pass was kind of
an emergency-type thing to get the roads open. He will mention that to Mr. Sowada
tomorrow.
Discussion was that any further petitions received are largely informational. People
should be encouraged to attend the public hearing. It appears that a large part of
the confusion is informational in getting either the wrong information or none at all.
The public will be mailed an informational letter prior to the public hearing.
Linstad - Lot Split
(Reference March 6, 1979, Council Meeting Minutes) Otto Linstad was present.
Discussion was on whether a covenant could be required that the two parcels involved
have to be sold as one parcel even though they are in two different cities, as the
concern was over the lot being split by Mr. Linstad in that it is an unbuildable lot
and could not be built on until there is road frontage. Attorney Hawkins stated that
both the subdivision Ordinance and Zoning Ordinance is recorded, and any lawyer would
know that it would be an unbuildable lot. We could record the resolution as long as
the legal description of the lot is included, which would serve notice that it is un-
buildable. Attorney Hawkins also noted that the City would be under no obligation to
issue a building permit should just this parcel be sold by itself in the future.
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 3
(Linstad - Lot Split, Continued)
Councilman Jacobson was concerned that this is the first time we are looking at setting
up a lot that there is no possible way to get to it as it is not on a public road; it
can't be combined with the adjacent lot because it is in a different City; and should
the owner in Ham Lake want to sell hi s home, he doesn't necessarily have to sell the
second parcel, which is creating an island. He felt that that is a bad precedent to
start and felt it could cause problems in the future. He would have no problem with
it if it could be combined with the adjoining lot or if it did front on a public road;
but he felt that just because a person wants more land, to create a landlocked parcel
could really give some problems later on.
Further discussion was that if this is to be treated as a lot split, according to the
Ordinance, a park fee is required in this case and should be included, as this lot will
eventually be buildable. Attorney Hawkins also advised that the City cannot ask for a
33-foot easement along the easterly edge of Tract B, as we are only dealing with the
2~-acre parcel (Tract A) at this time.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Peach, adopting a Resolution approving a Lot Split of
Parcel 7300, Plat 65912 for Otto Lindstad. WHEREAS, the property owner made application
to subdivide the property under a variance from the provisions of Ordinance No. 10,
and WHEREAS, the Planning and Zoning Commission did review the request, and WHEREAS,
after such review the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended to the City Council
approval of such request, and WHEREAS, the Planning and Zoning Commission has given
reasons for such recommendation as being 1) the variance does not adversely affect the
adjacent property owners and the spirit and intent of the Comprehensive Development
Plan, and WHEREAS, the City Council is in agreement with the reasons as cited by the
Planning and Zoning Commission, and WHEREAS, upon the advise of the City Attorney,
Ordinance No. 40 and Ordinance No. 40A is applicable for this subdivision, and WHEREAS,
a variance from Ordinance No. 10 would not apply under Section 14.02 and Section 17.01,
and WHEREAS, upon the advise of the City Attorney, the property owner would not be
required to again appear before the Planning and Zoning Commission inasmuch as he
originally did apply for a lot split under Ordinance 40 and 40A and was advised by the
Commission to reapply under Ordinance No. 10 as a variance. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of Andover to hereby approve the request of
Otto Linstad to subdivide Plat 65912, Parcel 7300 as shown and described on the attached
Exhibit "A" pursuant to City Ordinance No. 40 and Ordinance No. 40A legally described
as follows: (Reference as shown and described on the attached Exhibit "A").
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of Andover that it be known
that this lot split is being created for the purpose of allowing the owner of Lot 3,
Block 4, Pinger's Addition to add continguous property to his lot, but cannot legally
combine the two parcels due to them being in separate cities. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED
by the City Council of the City of Andover to hereby declare the northeasterly subdivided
parcel shown as Tract A on the attached Exhibit A to be unbuildable pursuant to
existing City Ordinance. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of
Andover to make this lot split approval contingent on the dedication of an easement for
road and utility purposes across the easterly 33 feet of Tract A. BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of Andover that this Resolution be recorded
with the Anoka County Recorder. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED by the City Council, the City
of Andover, to hereby charge a park dedication fee of $100 pursuant to City Ordinance
No. 40 and 40A.
DISCUSSION was over the dedication of 33 feet on the eastern border. Acting Mayor
Orttel stated he has had a request from the City of Ham Lake that we send a letter
there acknowledging that we'll be collecting easement on everything on the City border
whenever we can, as they will be doing the same thing. Attorney Hawkins noted a
building permit would not be issued for this Tract until the Council had accepted a
road for maintenance purposes. Discussion was also on the statement declaring Tract A
Regular City Council MeeLlng
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 4
(Linstad - Lot Split, Continued)
to be unbuildable pursuant to existing City Ordinances, as should a road ever be built
along the City line, that Tract would become buildable. Councilman Lachinski AGREED
TO INCLUDE the word "presently" (...declaring the northeasterly subdivided parcel shown
as Tract A on the attached Exhibit A to be presently unouildable'pursuant to existing
City Ordinances...) Second still stands. (See Resolution RI9-9)
VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Lachinski, Orttel, Peach; NO-Jacobson
Motion carried.
Larson/Hanson-Variance
MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Lachinski, fora,~esolution denying the Variance request
of Melnor O. Larson for the David Hanson property described as Lot 15, Block 5, Nordeen
Addition ... (See Resolution R20-9). Motion carried unanimously.
Pine Hills - Preliminary Plat
Tom O'Malley, Land Survey, represented Stanley Knoll.
Chairperson Bosell reviewed the Planning and Zoning recommendation for approval of the
Pine Hills Addition Preliminary Plat (Reference Planning and Zoning Commission's
recommendation, Memo to Mayor and Council dated March 12, 1979). She also explained
that the reason they are recommending approval of the length of 160th Lane cul de sac
is due to the configuration of the street around the Northern Natural Gas Pipeline
going through the property.
Mr. O'Malley stated the Park Board had decided to have some grading done within the
park area rather than accept money, and that grading has been incorporated in the
grading plan of the Preliminary Plat. Discussion noted the February 8, 1979, recommenda-
tion from the Park Board that the City Council approve grading plans for the Pine Hills
Preliminary Plat for the ball field in the proposed park. Further, the balance of 1.2
acres to be cash in lieu of land in the amount of $1,100; that this money be spent by
the developer for the grading and/or excavation of the park.
Mr. O'Malley stated the drainage plan has been corrected. Ms. Bosell stated the Park
Commission decided against a walkway easement from Quay Street to the park because of
the problems created by people cutting through private property, maintenance, etc.
MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Peach, adopting a Resolution approving the Preliminary
Plat of Pine Hills Addition in Section 17, Township 32, Range 24 ... (...noting the
following variances and exceptions: 1) Exception to OrØinance No. 10, Section 9.03 (g)
for the length of the cul de sac on 160th Lane. 2) All lots within the Plat shall face
on interior streets; and that the City accept the parkland as shown on the Preliminary
Plat and that balance of the requirements for parkland be accepted in cash, which the
developer will incorporate in his grading plan for said park...) (See Resolution R21-9)
Motion carried unanimously.
North Birch Creek Estates - Preliminary Plat
Mike Gair, Planner, was present. Commission Chairperson Bosell reviewed the P & Zls
recommendation for approval of the Preliminary Plat, explaining the parkland in the
southwest corner was chosen because of its high features, some trees, very useful land
as a park with proper access off of Crosstown Boulevard presently and off an interior
street as proposed on the plat. Mr. Davidson explained that they have worked out a
site plan that every building site has 39,000 square feet of buildable area. It will
require a considerable amount of fill. Their engineer had indicated that they will be
moving material from within the site.
Regular City Council MeetIng
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 5
(North Birch Creek Estates - Preliminary Plat, Continued)
Mr. Gair stated that one of the things that Mr. Klous saw within this parcel is the
opportunity to add amenity to the lots, an opportunity to create the ponding areas
within the site, and to amenitize the rear portion of the lots. consequently, he will
utilize the resources from creating those ponds for creating the homesites themselves.
He felt the resources for creating those lots should predomently come from within the
120-acre site. Soil borings indicate that there is sand available beneath the peat
to use for fill. The organic materials will be used for yard areas.
Councilman Peach didn't feel this plat was in conformance with Ordinance 10, Section
11.0410 regarding the height of the basements, as they are too close to what must be
the normal water level existing in this area. He felt it wasn't in compliance with
Section 8.04e considering the drainage, as he felt a great deal of the land must be
peat. He looked at that property, and it is virtually all wet swamp on the eastern
portion. Under Ordinance 37, Section 2.5 regarding sewer depth, he didn't feel that
sewers could be constructed above the existing water table according to the Plat. He
thought the Plat did not conform with the Comprehensive Plan in that the development
is in an area of very high water table, which is designated as severely restricted by
the Comprehensive Plan. There is serious danger of ground water pollution, and this
would create a major disruption of nearby surface waters and aquafer recharge areas.
It could increase water, induce soil erosion, and destabilize stream flow. He wasn't
convinced fill material would provide adequate drainage or stability for residential
construction and felt allowing a developer to proceed in a project which in all probability
would never receive final approval for building permits, and if it did might well provide
serious sewage and drainage problems, would be negligent on the part of the City.
Mr. Davidson noted that perk tests indicate that ground water is within three feet of
the surface, and they will have to build up house benches for many lots. From an
engineering standpoint, he felt it is going to take a considerable amount of work in
order to meet City codes. They will have to fill enough for the depth of the basements;
most of them called for a shallow basement for split entry homes. The DNR needs to be
contacted only if public water is involved, which is a very nebulous term,meaning if
there was public water connotations attached to those wetlands or the development would
create a discharge to a natural stream. In this case it would not, as the discharge
is to a branch in the watershed district.
Chairperson Bosell stated she met with the County on March 1 as it pertained to
Anoka County's Development Plan. In the next few years, the County is going to set
aside wetlands and protect them; however, this is not part of the land that they are
considering protecting. They have reclassified wetlands with 22 designations, and this
area does not fall within any of those designations of protected wetlands. The wetlands
map in the Comprehensive Plan was used in setting up the plat and in conjunction with
choosing the park site.
There was a very lengthy discussion relative to the concerns of the water table, the
amount of fill needed to develop buildable sites, the requirements of constructing
sanitary sewers, and on whether determining basement level means basement floor or
footings. It was noted that water is at 898 feet; the suggested overflow is at 899
feet; and the water level will be three feet below the designated flood area. It was
questioned whether the proposed drawing meets the ordinances relative to determining
basement level; that it has to be three feet above the highest known water level;
conceivably the water level could exceed 899 feet; that Ordinance 37 states the sewer
has to be 6.5 feet above water; this falls within designated wetlands; it has a 100-
year flood plain but is not a protected wetland; and that Ordinance 37 restricts septic
systems from being installed in low swampy areas which may be subject to flooding or
subject to permanent or seasonal high water table (Reference Ordinance 37, Section 2.5).
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 6
(North Birch Creek Estates - Preliminary Plat, Continued)
Chairperson Bosell stated the Planning Commission did use the wetlands map very
closely and felt that if the developer was willing to fill the property to make the
39,000 square feet of buildable area which is set up to hold the original septic system
and allow it to be moved twice, he could do so. It's going to be very costly for the
developer to meet the requirements to get building permits, but technically it is
possible to do it. Mr. Gair stated Mr. Klous felt that it is feasible, that it would
be a good plan, and is âware that it will be costly to develop. He is a contractor
and will be doing the work himself. These will be built to meet FHA approval.
Concern was expressed as to whether the developer realizes how much fill is needed and
the expense involved and as to the question of whether these lots must be filled prior
to final plat approval. The Attorney noted that the Council cannot deal with whether
it is economically feasible for him to plat this land. If he can meet the requirements
of the Ordinance, then he is entitled to plat it. Discussion continued on the question
of whether the Preliminary Plat as drawn meets the Ordinance requirements relative to
elevation of building sites; that it is the Building Inspector's job when basement ex-
cavation is done to be sure that there is no organic material in the fill; the question
of whether the water level would be changed with all the modifications being made in
the area; and on whether the ordinances require there be 39,000 square feet of buildable
land prior to final plat approval. It was noted that Ordinance 10, Section 11.0410,
states before any residential plat may be approved and any permit issued for residents,
competent proof shall first be presented that the natural ground water level at all
times is not less than three feet below the level of the lowest portion of proposed
structure.
Mr. Gair stated that in their conversations with both the Coon Creek Watershed Board and
the County conservationists, it was his understanding that this portion of the ditch
was dug for the purpose of draining very shallow depths to enable the farming of crops
with 6-inch root systems that was farmed in those days. It was a remedial thing to
make the area usable at that time for crops. When Coon Creek reviewed this plat, it
is unique in that we are asking to create larger ponds to hold the water on site. From
a practical standpoint and from an agricultural standpoint, that very shallow ditch
serves no purpose any more. We're trying to create some amenities out there and yet
respect that whole system and tie back into it again for future downstream usage.
Whoever markets these properties cannot sell a lot without it being recorded with the
County, which can't be done until the Final Plat is accepted and certain improvements
have been made. Mr. Gair also explained that there are no existing ponds on the area,
but ponds will be created on site. The water will accummulate in the drainway and
flow southeasterly.
Mr. Davidson agreed that while difficult, it is technically possible to meet the re-
quirements of our ordinances in this area. He didn't feel that this development would
be creating any more problems than any other septic system creates, as they are going
to develop the sites under the ordinances to assimilate the wastes by creating 39,000
square feet of area above the flood plain within 18 inches of surface as required.
He didn't think that they are reducing the amount of wetland from the standpoint of
open water area because they are creating additional water area. He also felt that the
scattered housing sites on 2\-acre lots is not going to affect the general public health
and welfare. When the water level exceeds 898, it will overflow into the ditch system.
Should there be septic system failures, what would happen is the ponds would become
lagoons and they become their own waste treatment system, but that wouldn't necessarily
create a health problem.
Liam McGannon - stated that Lake Leeman drains across the road and into that area
underneath the road. He also expressed concern that if approval were given and the
developer gives this a try based on believing he can do what he says he is going to do,
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 7
(North Birch Creek Estates - Preliminary Plat, Continued)
puts a half million dollars into the project, comes back and it just doesn't meet the
requirements here and there and you're going to turn him down; then come the lawsuits,
the change of laws, and the lowering of specifications. Who would win in this case?
In discussing the basement elevations, the engineers interpeted the ordinance to be
three feet below basement floor elevation, which is about 10 inches above the footings.
This is also the way the developer had it interpreted on the plat. That 904 feet is
basically the grade at the house, which is only 6 feet above the high water table.
The Council asked the Engineer to check the Preliminary Plat to be sure it does meet
the Ordinances and to calculate the amount of fill required (roughly). They want the
. , developer to understand that most of these lots will require over one acre of six feet
of fill on each lot, and that it actually has to be brought up to 905 feet. The
developer also needs to understand that these building sites must be built prior to
Final Plat approval. Attorney Hawkins felt the City could take the position that
prior to Final Plat approval, the 39,000 square feet must be developed because he is
developing for residential purposes.
MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Lachinski, that we delay action on the North Birch
Creek Estates single family Preliminary Plat to the next regularly scheduled Council
meeting in the Month of April to allow the City Engineer and the developer to get
together to discuss the plat and parameters, the amount of fill, and all the technical
ramifications that were talked about at the Council meeting so that both the developer
and the Engineer adequately know just what will be involved and the amount of money
that may be involved in getting this Preliminary Plat to the final stages. Motion
carried unanimously.
Recess at 9:30; reconvene at 9:43 p.m.
167th Lane Cul de sac
Attorney Hawkins explained the Clerk will be talking with the landowners relative to
this cul de sac and prepare a map showing the area.
DeGardner - Road Location
Jim Kurth, Surveyor, Bob DeGardner, developer, and Ben Bialke were present. Mr.
Kurth explained that at the previous meeting the Council questioned some of the lots
in the reserve area and that the 300 feet of frontage should be at the building set-
back line. The idea of the plan is to show the lots and what they are planning to do
with the land.
In response to a question On applying Ordinance 8, Section 4.09 to this subdivision,
Attorney Hawkins stated that it does not apply in this case. That was adopted before
the City had platting regulations and as an attempt to make some reference to platting.
He felt what we have control over is going to be governed by State Statute, which
reads not less than five acres and not less than 300 feet wide and fronts on a public
easement or road. There are no restrictions on filing and recording conveyances.
Chairperson Bosell stated the Planning Commission recommended approval of the road as
it was laid out. The last time they looked at it was on September 26, 1978. Mr.
DeGardner stated they have talked to the people to the north about acquiring more land
with the idea of extending the road to meet Highway 58, but they couldn't agree on
terms. He didn't feel he could subdivide this land because going to 2\-acre lots would
create twice the problem with twice as many people with the same problem of having
only one entrance/exit to the parcel. He felt this is laid out to the best practical
use of the land. There was a jog in the road, but there is a lot of lowland that
needs to be worked around. At this time there is no way to get other accesses out of
this property. They have some l~and 12-acre lots because of the swamp, and they
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 8
(DeGardner - Road Location, Continued)
designed the road to be constructed on high land. Mr. McGannon - stated that 80
percent of that map is under water and is in the 100-year flood plain.
Councilman Lachinski felt nothing has really changed because of the fact that the
Council can't deal with lot sizes, etc. In previous cases, the Council has been against
having a single access to a piece of property; and the longer the road is, the worse
the problem gets. Secondly, the Council doesn't get to address problems, such as is
there sufficient building area in the lots, until the building permit is asked for.
Therefore, someone could buy a piece of property that is not buildable. Mr. Kurth
noted that if land is sold as a building site and is declared unbuildable by the City,
the party does have recourse in that he can return to the developer to get his money
back.
There was a lengthy discussion on the length of the cul de sac. It was noted that
the length of the street could have a negative effect but the potential of eventually
continuing the road to Highway 58 could have a positive, desirable, effect in terms of
getting to that northeastern portion of the City. Other comments were that these large
lots offset what is being considered in North Birch Creek Estates; the road going
through would be very desirable for emergency access, etc,; if the Council accepted
this road configuration, the City would enter into a contract with him that he build
the roads to City standards; if the northern 40 would develop, it could be required to
hook up to this road; that Lot B would not be a buildable lot until a road were
constructed and it had 300 feet of frontage; that the City already holds the easement
along Lot B; that the zoning is for single family housing; that possibly the same
criteria for accepting roads in platted areas should be applied to this subdivision as
well exclusive of the lots; that this proposal has a cul de sac of almost three times
the requirement of cul de sacs in platted areas; and that it is a single access
development. Mr. DeGardner stated the land to the north also has a lot of lowland
and would have to be divided into larger lots. He will be constructing gravel roads.
Also, by denying this proposal, the people to the north will be in the same predicament
of not being allowed to develop their property because it, too, would only be a
single access.
Discussion was on the possibility of providing other accesses. Mr. DeGardner felt
there would be no problem moving the road closer to the property in the northeast and
granting an easement to provide a T-type access to that northeast corner property.
He didn't feel there would be any possibility of an access to the west because of the
lowland. Mr. Davidson stated they don't have soil borings relative to the water table,
etc.; but they received tentative profiles and addressed the feasibility of doing that.
They do require a preliminary profile, and it is up to the developer to build the
street to that. Mr. Kurth stated he shows that on the plan, and that the road can take
care of itself as far as the cut and the fill. They are running the road down the
center, which is the highest part of the north 40; the southwestern 40 is quite low,
so they will put the road on the edge so they can get the dirt to fill up about three
of the lots to get the required 39,000 square feet. There is ample dirt on the site.
Councilman Lachinski stated he would have trouble denying a single access plat if
we are approving unplatted roads in undeveloped areas. CouDcilman Peach felt that the
six-acre lots offset a lot of problems you have with platted developments.
Mr. McGannon - stated that Lot A is quite nice and some of the northern lots are nice,
but for the most part they are five acre lots but with only a couple hundred foot
portion that a house could be built on. He wondered if that would be approved; if that
is the way the rules read. Acting Mayor Orttel explained that you need 39,000 square
feet that is of such elevation that will support an on-site sewer system; the rest of
the reasoning is to keep the density down.
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 9
(DeGardner - Road Location, Continued)
Discussion was on the cost of and the possibility of ever extending the sanitary sewer
trunk line to service these people; that the Comprehensive Plan states there will never
be sewer in this area in the foreseeable future; and tbe whole idea of the large-lot
concept is so that sanitary sewer will not be needed. Councilman Jacobson didn't
like it because it exceeds the block length by three times what our ordinances call for,
it exceeds the cul de sac by eight times, and he would question putting that many
people On one access in terms of emergency vehicles, plowing, etc.
MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Lachinski, that the City Council, City of Andover, deny
the acceptance of the Street on the DeGardner road location north one half of the
northeast one quarter, Section 12, Range 32, Township 24, and the southwest one quarter
of the souteast one quarter of Section 1, Township 32, Range 24, City of Andover, for
the following reasons: 1) The road exceeds the block length in City Ordinances by
approximately three times; 2) It exceeds the cul de sac length in the City Ordinances
by approximately eight times; and the council expresses its concern over one exit for
16 lots in terms of the emergency vehicles and access for City equipment to the area.
Discussion: Councilman Lachinski stated that everyone recognizes that the Ordinances
don't apply, but he felt we shouldn't be approving road and road construction in unplatted
areas any differently than we would in platted areas. Councilman Peach felt they are
ignoring the fact that this road has the potential of being a great asset to the City
in that it would cut two or three minutes off access to the northeast portion of the
City. He felt that offsets the fact that 15 people will have to drive down one road
for some time in the future until that northern area is developed. He also felt that
this is the best possible use of the land and would much prefer to see these larger
lots on the lowland rather than requiring platting to 2~ acres. He didn't feel that
there would be the problems with an average 7-acre lots because of the lower density.
The reason the City needs to scrutinize platting is because of the high density being
squeezed in one area. Putting one house on 7 acres doesn't impact the recharge area
nearly as much as it does putting one house on 4 acres. Councilman Jacobson agreed
with Councilman Peach, but was concerned over the one access. If it were to be extended
to Highway 58, he would be agreeable. Possibly this land isn't ready to be developed yet.
Discussion was on the problems created by developing into 2~-acre lots; that there
would still be only one access if platted; that if this was denied and the property to
the north were to be developed, the situation would be reversed and they would be denied
also. Acting Mayor Orttel felt that the cul de sac length wouldn't apply because that
is for permanent cul de sacs and this is a temporary turnaround. He also expressed
concern that the northeastern portion of the City cannot be reached without having to
go into Ham Lake or Cedar; so this would put us within 1/4 mile of that portion of the
City. Also, the existence of this road might very well precipitate the completion of
the road to 58. He did feel that more accesses to the adjoining properties should be
allowed, providing lateral accesses to the property lines. Mr. DeGardner felt they
could provide some easement to the northeast property. Relative to Lot B, Attorney
Hawkins felt the records should be examined, as he felt that that easement was given
so the individual north of it had a buildable lot.
Councilman Lachinski again stated if we approved this location, he felt we would have
a difficult time denying a similiar road consideration in a platted area. Counci lman
Peach disagreed. Platted areas follow the Ordinances, and this does not. He didn't
think one would be a precident for the other. And by denying this road we are en-
dangering the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens in the northeast corner of
the City because emergency access would be delayed, since the road would not be built
as soon if this road was denied.
VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Orttel, Peach; NO-Jacobson, Lachinski
Motion failed.
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 10
(DeGardner - Road Location, Continued)
Acting Mayor Orttel stated that in the present form he couldn't approve this but would
like to see at least two extensions which, if put in the proper places, would eliminate
all the problems. ,That could get block lengths under 1320 feet.
~OTION by Peach, Seconded by Orttel, that the DeGardner Road be continued to the
next meeting with a recommendation that at least two extensions to the parameter of
the property be added.
VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Orttel, Peach; NO-Lachinski; PRESENT-Jacobson
Motion carried.
Councilman Lachinski -- My reason for voting no is that I don't really feel that
the road location will be approved; and I don't believe that it is reasonable for
these people to put any additional effort into the problem.
Ordinance No. 8D (Junkyards/Special Use)
Chairperson Bosell reviewed the Planning Commission's recommendation for approval
of the Ordinance No. 8D to disallow the creation of any new junkyards in the community.
It would remove that special use from the NB District where they are presently
allowed. The only effect it would have on existing junkyards would be if they would
become delinquent in their function for one year. If they default, they would not be
allowed to restart.
MOTION by Peach, Seconded by Jacobson, the adoption of Ordinance No. 8D, An Ordinance
Amendlng Ordinance No.8, Ordinance No. 8A, Ordinance No. 8B, and Ordinance No. 8C,
An Ordinance for the zoning of the City of Andover. The City Council of the City of
Andover hereby ordains: Ordinance No.8, adopted January 1, 1971, Ordinance No. 8A,
adopted on October 8, 1974, Ordinance No. 8B, adopted September 21, 1976, and Ordinance
8C, adopted October 17, 1978, are hereby amended to read: Section 7 - Subsection 7.03 -
Special Uses, delete the use: Used auto parts except when conducted with an auto
agency offering new and used cars and provided all outside storage is completely
screened from adjacent streets and properties and in accordinance with Section 8.03;
and delete the use Auto Reduction. Adopted by the City Council, City of Andover, this
20th Day of March, 1979. Motion carried unanimously.
Bingo License - AA/St. Patrick's Church
MOTION by Peach, Seconded by Lachinski, that the City Council approve the application
for Bingo for the Andover AA at the old St. Patrick's Church at 3556 181st Avenue NW,
with the license to be effective on April 20, 1979, through April 19, 1980; contingent
on satisfactory review from the Andover Building Official, Andover Volunteer Fire
Department, and Anoka County Sheriff Department. License fee being $25.
VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Lachinski, Orttel, Peach; NO-Jacobson
Motion carried.
Cigarette, N. I. Malt Liquor Off Sale License -- Tom Thumb Store
Councilman Jacobson questioned how the City could issue a license if there is no
Ordinance regulating cigarette sales. Attorney Hawkins was directed to investigate
this.
Councilman Jacobson also noted that in granting N. I. Malt Liquor Off Sale License,
there are a lot of restrictions, forms to be filled out, and investigations to be made;
and he hasn't seen anything on it. And he has a problem granting a license to someone
who has apparently been selling liquor for 2\ months without a license to begin with.
He requested no action on this until all the paperwork, etc., has been completed as
per the Ordinance requirements.
Regular City Council Meeting
March 20, 1979 - Minutes
Page 11
(Cigarette, N.I. Malt Liquor Off Sale License -- Tom Thumb Store, Continued)
MOTION by Jacobson, Seconded by Lachinski, that we put the renewal of licenses for the
Tom Thumb Store, 15825 Seventh Avenue NW for cigarettes and non-intoxicating malt
liquor off-sale license to the next regular City Council meeting, and providing all
of the necessary paperwork is completed as per the Ordinance. Motion carried unanimously.
Planning and Zoning Commission Report
Chairperson Bosell noted that the City Council can adopt a Resolution setting forth
the standards by which roads shall be constructed in metes and bounds subdivisions,
basically setting out standards in the Platting Ordinance. No public hearing is required.
Acting Mayor Orttel directed Ms. Bosell to discuss this with the City Clerk to draft
such a Resolution. This is to be put on the next City Council Agenda.
Clerk/TtPist Position
MOTION y Peach, Seconded by Jacobson, that the City Council hire Mrs. Victoria Volk
for the position of Clerk/Typist at a salary commencing at $720 per month with an increase
up to $740 per month at the end of 120 days. Discussion was that this salary is still
below that of the other office staff; however, they have been here for about two years
already. The splitting of the positions of Recording Secretary to the P & Z and this
Clerk/Typist position would still be less money than what Ms. Hanson was making. Motion
carried unanimously.
Approval of Claims
MOTION By Peach, Seconded by Orttel, that the following Claims be approved from the
General Fund: Checks Number 2396 through 2414 excluding Checks 2403, which is void
and 2411 which is void, for a total of $8,479.87. Move that Check No. 273 be withheld
until the problem with the grill is straightened out with Lakeland Ford. Motion
carried unanimously.
MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Peach, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 11:21 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
'\~~~\03_tL ~-:t__
Mar lla A. Peach '
Recording Secretary