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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP May 24, 1978 ~ 01 ANDOVER SPECIAL CITY COU~¡CIL HEETING - HAY 24, 1978 HINUTES ~ S~ecial Meetin~ of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Jerry Windschitl on May 24, 1978, 10 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard ~n7, Anoka, Minnesota, to discuss the hiring of a City Administrator/Engineer. r,ouncilpersons þresent: Lachinski, McClure, Orttel Councilterson absent: VanderLaan Also present: City Clerk, p. K. Lindquist CouncilTIerson Lachinski was concerned that this item not be delayed to a point where there is no contest on it at all. He would like to see a date set to discuss this. MOTTO~ by HcClure, Seconded by Orttel, to call a Special Meeting for the First of June to handle this matter. Discussion: Hayor 17indschitl noted the problem of setting a date without knowing if Councilperson VanderLaan can be here and that normally a meeting date is not set when a Councilperson is absent. Further discussion was concern over the time delay if a date to discuss this is not set until after tbe next Council meetings on June <; or 6. VOTE ON !!OTION: YES-Lachinski, McClure, Orttel; NO-17indschitl Motion carried. MOTTON by McClure, Seconded by Orttel, to adjourn. All in favor said aye. Meeting adjourned to June 1, 1978, 7:30 p.m. at the Andover City Hall. Meeting adjourned at 10:07 p.m. nespectfully sUbmi.!.:.:¡j,.. . ..;> L -. , . ------ ~ \ ' . C . <'J E <L<:-.- '. \.t....".tJL\-.>...-\.. 1... !!arc'älla A. Peach Recording Secretary -- . . ~ 01 ANDOVER STE'TC1UIST ADDITIrJ'¡ PUBLIC HEARING - MAY 24, 19713 MINUTES ~lrsuant to notice published thereof, a Public Hearing on the proposed construction of bi.tu'Minous streets and storm sewers to serve the Stenquist Addition was called to order by n"yor Jerry Windschitl on May 24, 19713, 7:40 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 16135 t;!'()sstown Boulevard }r'_'l t Anoka, Hinnesota. Counci.l~et'sons present: Lachinski, McClure, Orttel Courycil~erson absent: VanderLaan Also "OreRent: City Attorney, Landol Locher; City Engineer, D. R. Kasma; City Clerk, p. K. Lindquist; and interested residents Hr. Kasma showed sketches of the area which included 159th Avenue NW, l60th Lane, l61st TJane, l62nd Lane. Oneida Street ~~, Potowatomi Street W~, and Quapaw Street N~, reviewed the reason for the project, the project description, the street costs, project financing, and the ~roject time schedule. He also reviewed plans for the ßas main, the drainage problems in the area and how they would be solved. Hr. Kasma noted that the project costs include ~lO,OOO for the acquisition of easements for cul-de-sacs and for lettinß water stand on people's property. If cooperation is received from the residents i~ this nroject, the cost could be reduced by ~lO,OOO. Project financing over a lO-year period at 7 uercent interest would be an annual payment of 1363.35 for an average 220-foot lot. Over II) years it ì'!auld cost about ~27g per year. He stated that the City's fiscal consultant is recommending ~ayment over a lO-year period. 1fti!' . Kasma considers this a per~anent street and would recommend up to 15 years for financing if it would help the TIeo~le to pay for tbe TIroject by ~roviding lower annual payments. The roads are proposed to be 21,-feet wide with approximately 4 feet of ditching to each side for water drainage. In some cases birm 'would be "Out on the edB;e to control the water. He felt the streets would òefinitely last 15 years. The only disadvantage is that the edges may break off ~ Itttle bit, where that 'wouldn't happen on a curbed street. But it is built with the same standard as other streets. ~r. Kasma also reviewed the history of the þroject noting why the cul-de-sacs were not uut i'1 the Addition previously, exulained that they planned to work around the gas main so that it would not have to be lowered, that the street ends could be made to a '1'- section within the street right-of-way for a turnaround for maintenance equipment rather than constructin~ the normal cul-de-sacs, and reviewed the map showing the people in favor of and opposed to the project. 11r. Kasma noted that the difference in annual payment between the 7 percent interest or 6* percent interest is only 17 a year. He felt that 7 percent is the maximum percent that w011ld be used anò felt it would be less than what was presented. He also stated the land to the south of l59th is figured in the total assessment and will be paid for at the same front-footage rate. The increased run-off into the existing areas and ponds would be very nominal because it is only a 24-foot strip of blacktop and the area is not planned to be changed substantially. The only problem now is on the north end of Potowatomi Street. The qearin~ was then opened to the residents for testimony. 1)Avid T,an.<>:e. 1~017 CJuamw Street - noted the petition brought in in oPPosition to the streets by aTIproximately 60 ~roperty owners in the area. He asked if they will be grading into the yards when making the streets 24 feet wide. Hr. Kasma stated the street is 24 feet with 4 feet on each side for a total of 32 feet. Most of the surfacin~ in that area is about 28 to 30 feet, so it wouldn't be ~rading into the yards very much. Stennuist Addition Public Hearing May 24, 1978 - Hinutes Page 2 1J1'-r.. T.>anf;e - emphasized what Mr. Kasma stated about the edges breaking up. He felt that either storm sewers or sanitary sewers will be coming into the area and that 10 years would be long enough for financing because he felt the roads were going to be breaking up before then. Also, the residents pay the City and feel they are getting by cheaply now as no- body is doing anything out there now. He likes the roads the way they are. Hr. Kasma said the County Roads in the City have very few curbs on them, and those roads are built to last. It is to your advantage to be bonded for 15 years, because if they break up, it is the City's maintenance. You cannot be reassessed until the bond issue is over. ~~. Kasma also stated the Comprehensive Plan calls for sanitary sewer to extend no further north than Pound Lake by 1990, and beyond that the City has no plan prepared to service this area with sanitary sewer. He didn't see sewer coming out there in the next 20 years. Storm sewers are UP to the people whether they want them or not. He didn't feel that draina~e would be a problem and didn't see any need for storm sewers. ~TS. Stenauist - when we turned our roads over to Grow Townshiþ, no one was concerned about cul-de-sacs as they thought there would be roads to the east adjoining these. 'Nha t has hapnened to that development now? She has lived on that road ever since she was born and has never complained to the City about the conditions of the road. They live in the middle of ~ lots, noting the cost to put blacktop around them. }~. Kasma stated that development to the east was proposed to be developed into lots, but !~. Smith has changed his mind and will þut his road up the middle of that property and have 5-acre lots on each side with no access lots coming in from either direction. He chose 5-acre lots so he does not have to plat but can do it by metes and bounds. He's meeting all the City's requirements and Ordinances. Mayor Windschitl noted it is now zoned 2t acres and they couldn't get the streets to tie into the one-acre lots in the Stenquist Addition. The road going through will be a blacktop road. !Tow a temporary turnaround easement is required on plats coming into the City. !!ike Smitb. 16140 Potowatomi Street - bought their land because they did not want to live in the City and wanted the rustic area. He doesn't want to live in a suburban~paved area. Two years ago when they bought it they were told paving would not be in the area for 8 to 10 years. In facing the normal cost of living, he simply doesn't want it and doesn't feel it is needed. Gary Zavadil, 4530 IS9th Avenue ~ry - has mixed emotions about paying for the street, but is receiving 100 percent of the traffic and has problems of dust, traffic, and drainage from both the east and west. ¡~. Kesma stated there is vacant property across the street that is low and culverts and catch basins in the street could bring that water to the 10'.'1 area, depending on wbether or not permission can be received to do so. Mr. Smith will be paving bis lot, but tbe City cannot require him to pave that portion of 159th. The portion that is blacktopped was done because of the drainage problem. Hr. Zavadil - in figuring it out, payments over 10 years for a typical 220-foot lot would be ~2,552 and 15 years comes to ~4,178 -- the extra five years is costing an extra $1,618 which is over half of the 10-year period. Also, he has 430 feet on the side of his lot facing l5gth. Hr. Kasma stated that' the financing over 15 years could help young families and it could be naid un to avoid interest at any time. Houses are generally sold every 7 years, and at that time the assessment gets paid up. But it does cost more. HI'.. KaS!!Ia also stated he will be assessed 230 feet because it is a corner lot and has already paid the front foot assessment on the blackto~. The first 200 feet on a corner lot are not assessed. This could be figured out more closely for him. ¥~. Zavadil - is there a savings in interest if the assessment is paid off early and is there some type of speed control system if it is tarred? !,~. Kasma stated you would sa~ the nercentage of the bond by TIaying it off early. 11ayor Windschitl stated some municipaliti have refinanced their bonds when the bond market was down and have done some cost-saving things with their bond issues. If the City were to do so~ething like this, whatever savings ,- -'- ,,- Stenauist Addition Public Hearing ¡lay 24, 1978 - Hinutes Page 3 there would be would be posted back to the project. !layor Windschitl also stated the law for speed control is very cumbersome because a lot of it is controlled by the State of Hinnesota. He explained the procedure the City must go through. Herb 'Hymes t 15922 QuaMVI - asked if Hr. Zavadil's lot is marked on the map. Hr.. Kasma noted the lot is marked in favor of the project. Bill Hemn, 4756 l6lst JAne - stated that 430 feet of ¡~. Zavadil's property is on l59th and 200 feet is front that was put in by the developer. He questioned why he doesn't have to pay for 200 feet, ¡~. Kasma stated he has paid for the 200 feet when he purchased the lot, Thàt was included in the front-foot assessment. All corner lots are treated the same way.. All he is getting is a 200-foot credit off the 430 feet. It is treated just as if they were TIaving both sides of the lot at the same time. Helen HemTI. l62nd Lane - felt that l59th and the first block of Potowatomi get all the dust TIroblems and the major portion of that traffic and noted that from the latest petition, the majority in that area are against the project. She realizes that a few people in the area are planning to sell and want the blacktop in to increase the value of their property, but felt the rest of them are paying for it. She explained they own two lots between l6l8t and l62nd, both will have blacktop fronts. They don't have any more land than the people who livein the far north, yet they are going to be assessed doubly because the road happens ta go on both sides, They won't be using the road on the oæside so they won't be using the roads twice as much and the lots are about 300 feet wide, which would be more than u'e average lot presented. We would be paying 2 2/3 as much as anybody else in the neighborhood. She wondered about the possibility of a square footage assessment instead of a front-footage assessment and thought it would be more fair. She stated putting the blacktop on the southern lot would go just about to the end of the lot line if it is put 60 feet beyond the driveway of the existing lot to the south of theirs. She also felt the reason the entire project came up is because the City has shirked in its duty about main- tainin~ the roads in the first place. lIT. Kasma stated the City policy is that bituminous streets be assessed on an adjusted front~footage basis. Storm sewers can be assessed on either a front-footage or square-footage basis, but not streets. ,Jim 'Renner.. 4726 l6lst Lane - is also paying for a lot on 4726 l62nd Lane. He is in favor of the streets because at present they are hard on the cars, because of the dust problems, and because TIe should be thinking for the future. He felt surfaced streets would bring up the lot prices and increase the value of everyone's lot. Art SteMuist, 4731 l59th Avenue 1,1'1 - plo\'led Snow last winter and never did turn around on a cul-de-sac because it can't be done without ending up with a pile of snow in the ~iddlc. Re has ~ acres ahd asked how many sides he has to þay on. }~. Kasma stated that is why ~e's ~ot TIroposing a circle and would stay within the 66-foot easement for a turnaround. He wouldn't ryay fronta~e but TIould pay full frontage on Quapaw and Poto\'latomi -~ 1200 feet for the 6 lots, 110b 1i'(' r:hless.. 4h13 162nò Tßne - if grading costs are b~ the hour, he felt to get the gradig everyb0dy seems to wa~t, \'fe are ta11»:inl?, a lot of dollars. If blacktop lasts for 10 years, \'le'd be far a~ead in dollars and cents than grading by the hOT as an overall City. He has come hOT.1e at dusk hours and seen little kids playing on one of the main streets lost in a cloud of dust and felt that it is a hazard to children the way it is. He is in favo!' of the project because you can control the speed but not the dust. r~rs. Struvrve. ti5l3 159th Avenue - has 17 years of experience \'lith dust. She is happy to keeTI the dust off the furniture as long as they can lmep the rustic area that they have. Once the tar goes through there, it will be a freeway, Right across the street is one of the mo~t beautiful areas in AndovGr. The ovmer is in the nursing home. ì'That happeYls if he is unable to þay for it? She stated prices keep rising and there is a lot of younG families out there and didn't think it is morally right to burden them \'lith something that isn't a necessity of life. ~IT. Kas~a stated for anyone over age 65 the aSSOS3ment would ,,- Stenquist Addition T'ublic Hearing /lay 24, 1978 - Ninutes T'ar;e It be nlaced on the nroperty and ~ould be levied at the time the property is sold. He ~ould not lose the la~d because of the assessments. Hel T<:shelrnan. 4774 IhOth Lane - lives on the south side of l60th. Noted that some of the ~rojects in the City were ~ost~oned for several years and when they eventually carne throu~ the cost increased. ~~. Kasma stated bet~een /lay, 1976, and this spring, the cost for lTe~dowcreek Estates project increàsed by 16 percent. Prices are going up 8 to 10 percent a year in the construction industry for the equipment and material. J~. ?'shelrngn - is in favor of the project even though he's got a corner lot. He liJ<es the country livinp" but the sand is atrocious and costs him money to maintain his yard and house. For people with more than onè lot;, it's their option to own those lots or to sell them.. That ca~·t be used against the people who want the streets. He felt that because they are bound in and traffic is very low, that there would not be much deterioration on the side of the pavement. Don Causti.n , 16015 Poto~atorni - lived in Anoka before moving out there and can see t~o potential quarter-mile drag strips in the area, which is exactly what happened in Anoka. That would not be a problem out there with the roads the ~ay they are now. For that reason, he ~ould definitely not like to see blacktop. Hr.. Hymes - is against the blacktop" Everybody is racing down l59th right now. Put tar in there and someone is ßoing to get killed. It is nice living out there and he likes it the way it is in its wild state. !1ayor ITindschitl stated whether the road goes in or not, if you are continually having the speed problem, let the City kno~ and they can set up radar for a period of time, which has been done in other places quite successfully. ~~s. Stenouist - how much will the Assessor increase the value of QUI' property if blacktop is in? She doesn't want theirs to increase in value as they like it the \'lay it is and ~lan on livin~ there.. J.layor ~'Iindschitl stated it tends to be a formula that the County ,~ives US.. He thought in the sewer projects, about 70 percent of the project costs was added to the parcels affected. W-3.yne Steinke. 4525 l6lst Iðne - is in favor of the project and felt it would eventually COMe in.. When they do co~e in, the cost is going to be considerably higher. There is such a s~rinklin~ of ~ersonalities and only one-acre lots, he didn't think the community could be called country living. He felt the speeders could be controlled and mentioned that minibikes are running rampant through the area now. He can't afford these streets but will try to make the payments" He is in favor of increasing the value of his property and felt this is a reasonable way to go and felt the approach that the Engineer has taken is valid and was imnressed that the costs were kept in mind. ).~. Eshelman - does the annual assessed payment of $363 include the interest and does the City have an easement on the road ~lready? Hr. Kasma stated the payment includes the interest and ~ould remain the same throughout the bond issue. The City has 60 feet of easement and 66 feet in most of the area. Recess at 9:11; res idents can check the map to see if their vote is properl.y recorded; reconvene at 9:30 p.m. l1ayor 1Nindschitl read letters from Hr. and HI's. Oliver Roursville. 4657 159th Avenue !i\'1, from Ms. Carole J. SanteI'. Plate 75918, Parcel 5650-2, and from Roger and Diane '~laleski, l7g37 Potowatomi Street, Plat 6591R, Parcel 5880-5 -- all expressing opposition to the nroject.. ~~. Kasma stated there has been no other proposals for the roads. Class 5 ~ravel is a consideration; but part of the problem is if gravel is put on and not blacktopped right away, if you decided to blacktop in several years, most of the gravel is lost because the roadgrader can plow all the gravel into the ditches.. The City could Gravel and assess it.. . StenQuist Addition Public Hearing ~!ay 24, 1978 - J!inutes Pap;e 5 ~T. F.shelman - If this proposal doesn't go throur,h, is there a specified number of times that he is supposed to grade? Something will have to be done to keep the roads up as there are washouts and hazards to drive over. If it could be graded once or twice a week, it would helþ. Councilperson Lachinski stated there are internal attempts to establish a pUblic works department over a period of five years, Without some form of control on public works within the City, we're going to continue with the way things are now. Pat Cochrane, 4f)43 1h2nd I,;:me - the roads cause wear and tear on cars causing rattles, wearing out shock absorbers, rust, and dirt is trapped in the house. He felt if he put his house UP for aale, he'd get many thousands of dollars less for it with these rŒds than if blacktop was in front. If this project would have gone through five years ago, costs would be about 50 percent less. He felt the roads will eventually go in, and if costs are ~oin~ up 10 percent a year, what is it ßoinp, to cost then? His wage doesn't go up In percent a year. If it would go throur,h thÊyear, when would we get our first assessment? Hayor ;'Jindschi tl stated in Hay, 1979. l~r. Rshelman - asked if the City received cOMplaints about the roads out there. Hs. Lindouist stated this spring the calls were very, very high. Stenquist Addition is the one area within the City f~ which we receive a lot of calls. (ji)rdv BerJ:!er. 4f)43 16lst Iane - stated it is hard on the vehicles the way it is now, Prices are ~oing U~, and eventually it will come out there. Host of the speeders are the same ueoule, and that can be controlled by speed traps. He is in favor of the project. Al Struwve, 4613 159th Avenue - have been eating dust for 16 years and we'll continue to do so because of inflation. ~~y shouldn't we hold back for awhile? He felt invariably sanitary sewer is coming out five or ten years from now -- who pays to have the roads torn up then? He is against the blacl<top at the present time. V~, Kasma stated the City Council decides when the sanitary sewer goes out there and there are no plans to go there. Mayor Windschitl stated the Metropolitan Waste Control has given the City so much capacity out of the Coon Rapids interceptor and that our northern limit is just south of Round Lak~ The sewer plan is through 2050, and the only thing they are showing additional is a stub someday coming from Ramsey, which has capacity for 2,400 people and located at approximately l59th. In order to be cOMpleted, that interceptor has to start at 85th Avenue North in Brooklyn Park. !'~ Kasma stated we are under the control of the Metropolitan Waste ~ . Control and that we could not get a perMit to build a sewer plant out lhere with sewer available by way of interceptors. Ten years from noW you could not have sanitary sewer because it is not available. Bill Bush, 4f)43 16lst Lane )11." - doesn't believe this should be delayed any further because of the increase in costs. We know it is going to come eventually and he would rather be ~ayin~ the prices now rather than two years from now. It sounds like there is speed now with the dirt roads. He didn't think the blacktop will increase the speed; and if it does, nroþer enforceMent will have to co~e out there. The roads now have gone down due to the amount of people Moving out there causing heavier traffic and the poor grading taking away all the tou soil. !Ie is definitely in favor of the road. Hr. Lange - reminded the Council this is a representative democracy and there are 34 people against the project gnd 21 in favor. He would like to see the project dropped. r'~ayor l1indschitl state.d the total lots is 34 against, 21 for. Since the north half is mostly in favor and the southern portion is against the project, he felt one consideration might be to reduce the project . The numbers along l59th to Oneida, then north on Oneida to 160th Lane, west to Potowatorni and then north, there are 17 in favor and 13 opposed, counting the Stenquist lots as individual lots. Iw. Bush - If the project went through and everythin~ was blacktopped, the City does not have to ex vend any more at that point for gradin~. Is there some moneys available from the City to offset this cost? Councilperson Lachlnski stated in the 1978 budget there is ~. .. 'Stenauist Addition Public Hearinr, Hay 24, 1978 - !!inutes Pa,-,e 6 a~proxi~ately ~19,nnn for improvement of any roads af this nature. About ~3,OOO is for r8nair work, a!1d the Road Ir.rprovemen t COT!lmi ttee is recommending that they would lilre to take SOMe prior-year surplus funds, as they need about 352,onO. In that it may be nossible to do three inches of Class 5 Gravel on l59th Avenue for 1/4 mile stretch past the tar. Payor "Tindschitl stated that the City actually "ets from taxes from all the residents in Andover about ~171f,nnn, and the mill levy has not chanßed within a tenth of a mill for the last four years. Council~erson Grttel didn't know that there i8 any real savings in m~inte~ance costs for aSTIhalt roads as opposed to Gravel roads because of the sealcoatinG that has to be done. I~# F.shelma!1 - asked if there is a technique to Grading, as his driveay hos dropped about a foot since he moved there. lfuyor Windschitl noted the problem is that all he is movinr, is sand. If Class 5 were in there, there would be a stabalizer to Grade. 1IO'PIOTJ by 7rcClure, Seconded by Orttel, to cloœ the pUblic portion of the Public Hearing on the Stenquist Addition streets. r·~otion carried unD.~ÜYlously. Council Discussion - CouncilperGon Jßchinski felt it was fair to consider the reduced project when the majority in the northern end of the Addition are in favor of the streets and are dependent on the people in front. The revised ficrures, according to the Engineer, for thj; reduced þroject are 18 for, 18 opposed and 4 no votes. Councilpe1"'son HcGlure questioned what happens to the cost if the remaining people want their roads ~aved in the future. V'" Ko.sma sto.ted the only draina¿,;e preble!'] with dividing it up - . is on the intersection of l60th and Potowatemi. It "'ade more SenS3 to him to look at the e~tire é1rea. Councilpersm r:cClure stated accordinß to past history, it will come up again the following years and it will go through. He felt the entire project should be done or ~one at all at this ~oint. Attorney Locher sœted even without a petition, you could force any special assessment, but it requires 4/5 of the Council. It would be proper to postpone a decision if you wished the benefit of the fifth person. Councilnerson Lachinski addressed the residents stating in looking at the street pattern, the neonle would be back if the project were turned down. He didn't feel they were quite ready for the project at this point and that they have to drum up "'ore support. If the partial street project were put in, he felt we'd be putting a lot of traffic dovm the one road and didn't feel that would be a good situation. HDTIn"T by LachinsJd, Seconded by !{cClure, to terminate the Stenquist Addition street project. Notion carried unanimously. !{ayor TIindschitl stated the only way this project could be considered again is to receive another petition and then this entire Public Hearing ~~ocedure must be gone through again. ¡TOTlm! by nrttel, Seconded by Lachinski, to close the Public Hearing on the Stenquist Addition streets. All in favor said aye. Public Hearinr, adjourned at 10 p.m. ,~\.~mC~L ¡'~arceila A. Peach Recording Secretary -~.. .-