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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPH September 29, 1977 , CITY of ANDOVER PUBLIC HEARING - SEPTEMBER 29, 1977 MINUTES Pursuant to notice published thereof, a Public Assessment Hearing on the 1977 Street and Storm Sewer Project in the Northwoods and Red Oaks Addition Areas was called to order by Mayor Jerry Windschitl on September 29, 1977, 7:30 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Blvd. N.W., Anoka, Minnesota. Councilpersons present: Lachinski, McClure, Orttel, VanderLaan Councilpersons absent: None Also present: City Engineer, Rex Stockwell; City Attorney, Wm. Hawkins; City Clerk, P. K. Lindquist; and interested residents. Mr. Stockwell gave the Council and audience an update on the progress of the street and storm sewer project and stated he felt the project would be complete by November 1, 1977. He went on to explain the assessment policy and how front footage is figured on irregular shaped and corner lots, ie., they are equated to a rectangle. Storm sewers area assessed on a square footage basis. The boundaries of drainage are determined and each lot within the boundary is assessed for each square foot of area benefited by the system by having·their run-off water draining into such system. The outside boundary is determined and everybody within the boundary is assessed for storm sewer except in instances where a very large low spot exists (such as between 139th La. and 140th Ave,) which could never drain into the street and, therefore, would not be benefited by the storm sewer system. They look at each lot individually and determine that part of the lot which does drain into the system and that square footage is reflected in the assessment. The ponding area assessment is generally the entire lot except for the extremely low spots explained earlier. The reason for the ponding areas is that in order for approval from the Coon Creek Watershed Board and to meet their requirements, it was necessary to pond storm water somewhere in the project so there wouldn't be any increase in the amount of water going into Coon Creek. Mr. Stockwell went on to explain how these assessments can be paid off without interest and, if not paid off, how they would appear on the tax statement. The assessment figures for Northwoods are: Ponds, .003 per sq. ft.; storm sewer, .032 per sq. ft.; streets, $15.50 per front ft. The assessment figures for Red Oaks are: Ponds, 1.003 per sq. ft.; storm sewer, .077 per sq. ft.; streets, $16.10 per front ft. Mr. Stockwell then reviewed Andover's assessment policy which was adopted September 7, 1976. Mayor Windschitl: \ For those not in attendance at the Coon Creek Watershed meeting, they accepted our petition and made the $300.00 assessment for the connection to Coon Creek. They thought the ponding areas in Red Oaks were good because it was a permanent holding area anyway. In Northwoods they objected but in the end it was a 4-1 vote. They are now looking at Northwoods as a total now being a part of the Coon Creek Watershed District on a permanent assessment basis. If they would do any type of improvement on the creek, the Northwoods Addition would be assessable. If this being the case, the Northwoods residents are susceptible to another assessment board at some later date, can we charge them for a pond site now? Attorney Hawkins: I He had discussed this with the City Engineer previously and any assessment for any improvement would be for the ditch which would be Coon Creek's , Issessment and didn't have anything to do with our projects, Also the Engineer informed him that there was a question whether or not they would allow anything to drain into there unless we exhibited an effort on the part of the City to establish permanent drainage areas so that we didn't intend to drain the entire area into Coon Creek. Their drainage Page #2 'Mìnutes - September 29, 1977 problem is being satisifed due to the establishment of the drainage ponds and the amount of money, which would be $50.00 or so per average lot, could be sustained as an indirect ':Jenefit. An indirect benefit is something the City is allowed to assess for on a storm sewer project. Mayor Windsch1tl: Asked the City Clerk why the interest rate was set at 6.5% instead of 6.25%. Mrs. Lindquist: It could be set at 6.25% but that wouldn't leave alot left over for any delinquencies. The Hearing was then opened to the residents of Northwoods and Red Oaks for testimony. Marvin Thompson - 2309 - 140th Ave. N.W. - Questioned how the City Engineer arrived at his 130 ft. front footage and this was explained to him by Mr. Stockwell. Also, who benefits from the storm sewer? Some people are paying $1600.00 for a 100 ft. lot and others are paying $3500.00 for 130 ft. For the extra 30 ft., he is paying more than 2 1/2 times than those on a 100 ft. lot. There is an indirect benefit to the people who live on the side which does not drain into the area. They are benefitting from it. Without the storm sewer, there would not be the street; without the street, their property values wouldn't go up. Attorney Hawkins: A direct benefit is being able to use the system and an indirect benefit is being able to use the system at some time in the future. Councilperson VanderLaan: Attorney Hawkins was speaking of legal definitions regarding direct and indirect benefit and benefit as defined by the average person may not be in compliance with the legal definition. Marvin Thompson: He was concerned with the cost of the project. Nearly half of all his assessment was for the water drainage and this is the part that concerned him. Mr. Stockwell: The size of the pipe and the number of catch basim is all based on the amount of water going into that street. In an area where the lots drain away from the street, their back yard does not play any part in the design of that system. That is the reason you have an assessment policy that says if your front yard drains into the street and it runs into the system, that is the part you pay for. If your back yard drains away and doesn't play any part in the storm sewer design, you are not charge for that square footage. I Marvin Thompson: What is the total number of square feet in Red Oaks and what percent is assessable? I Mr. Stockwell: Total area is about 100 acres and almost 50% was assessable, but a big share of that includes public property which does not drain, ponds, parks and all the right of ways. I Marvin Thompson: His assessment was doubled if only 50% of the area was assessable and he is paying to drain the City's boulevards. Councilperson LacJinski: Questioned if the City could assess a property owner for something he doesn't own. TJe City's assessment policy is a policy used more commonly than any other Mr. Stockwell: policy, It is used in the Twin City area and other major cities, He believes it has proven itself; he fully supports the policy and thinks it is a fair policy. It is . '-~. ~fl\r·-· ' 0: '() '·'r·' -';- ',~ "';'1 'T0"-r_,:o~ "'·'-(1 -;_~~ ~.~~ L' ~-;:- ."(":' 't ," ":~~)lf(} . -~-, -'"' , , L ,~~,..,t"1:19d' 'r . 8:J_;"J '1-9 -"'!r"',''''' ..-:-.f~·O ..' ;:~,'~~ ,~j-l:) r.::.Í"._~ r·. , .,- . rp .'~ . 9., 'j-'r ~ ~ - 4-'. .,r.....~ ",+ !)rr.~ ,~~~f,~\T c>,Lt ....-1-"., ". "~or ¡-, ". " I·~.·::· t i-:-_jVC),'::'~ '_-1 7) (,"-_. Page #3 Minutes - September 29, 1977 universally accepted and has stood up in court and he recommends to the Council to treat the policy as it is intended. tfuyor Windschitl: Reiterated Councilperson Lachinski's comment about city property but said the alternate of charging the entire city of 8500 wouldn't be reasonable. Marvin Thompson: Thought a fairer way to assess would be to take the size of the street and aad all the square footage of the street and add it to the assessable square footage, divide that by the cost - now the cost per square foot went down. Take that portion which is draining the street and throw that back into the ponding area. The ponding area cost would go up but that is a cost which is incurred by the entire project and not by 50% of the project. Councilperson Lachinski: An alternate to ~Ar. Thompson's suggestion is to take the entire street area using whatever rate we would come up with by including that street area, then take the dollar amount for the street area and dividing by the total lineal feet on the project. Mr. Stockwell: It was the Council's decision on what they want ~or an assessment policy. Councilperson Vanderlaan: Alternatives have come up before in other pUblic hearings such as Green Acres and the assessment policy was not changed. If we make exceptions and keep on making exceptions and allowances in each situation, in the long run it will very severely affect a resident and that would create a very unfair situation. I agree with the City Engineer that the assessment policy has proven itself as a good policy. If it is changed now, we are disrupting something we have used before and it is going to hurt the people assessed previously and in the future it will disrupt the system. Carol Lilygren - 13951 Uplander St. N.W. - Agrees with Mr, Thompson that those residents with low lots do receive an indirect benefit in that they wouldn't have their street without the storm sewer. She now lives on a hill since they cut the street and she used to be level. She believes the entire project cost should be shared equally since all the residents benefit, [ directly and indirectly. She questioned the City Attorney as to the raising of her property value. She is being assessed over $3000.00 on her vacant lot and along with the sanitary sewer, she has close to $6,000.00 in assessments on the property. Attorney Hawkins: The law reads the market value must equal or exceed the amount of the assessment. Ms. Lilygren doesn't believe her lot value has increased according to the assessment. I Curtis Johnson - 2114 Osage St. N.W. - Wanted to know the depth of his lot, He lives on a cul-de-sac. It was figured at 200 ft. He asked if the entire lot was assessed for storm sewer and pond and the City Engineer said no, only a small portion. Mayor Windschitl questiored if ~Ar. Johnson's lot was low in the back. Mr. Stockwell stated it is very low between the houses on Osage St. and the houses on 138th and the houses on Nightingale, and this area was not assessed. This area has finished back yards and the characteristics will not change. If a vacant lot is low in a project, when a house is built, the characteristics are going to change and, therefore, is assessed. I Mayor Windschitl: This was not the case in Green Acres between 142nd La. and 142nd Ave., they were assessedllOO%. Mr. Stockwell: Recalled he went out and shot it at a depth of 300 ft. and every bit of it drained. He sent the Council a memo at that time on that. Page #4 Minutes - September 29, 1977 Mayor Windschitl: Doubts very seriously whether the whole area all the way down drained. In Northwoods there are a few areas which are low and there is a full assessment on them - behind Bob Nelson and Dean Johnson. Mr. Stockwell: There was one small low area behind one house. There is a hill running almost through the middle and it's draining to 140th La. or to Yukon. We have to base the assessments on general drainage, we can't take into account every little low spot. Councilperson VanderLaan asked how many lots are involved in the low spot in Red Oaks and Mr. Stockwell said 11 or 12. Mayor Windschitl: He really thought Dewey Kasma used to take the whole area and divide it out. Mr. Stockwell: Dewey has not done a survey for drainage for about eight years, He has done every one of them and has treated them all the same way using the same judgment. Dewey, until this year, just made the presentations to the Council. Mayor Windschitl suggested a break in order to look at the old assessment rolls. David Spartz - 14015 Raven St. N.W. - Wondered if he was deriving $1100.00 more benefit from the sewer and streets than his neighbors 50 ft. away directly across the street, He feels he should probably pay a little bit more but not $1100.00 worth. Thomas Turner - 2036 - 139th La. N.W. - Questioned his drainage. He couldn't really see any part of his lot which drains into the street. His lot line is still higher than the front of his house except for the boulevard where it is slanted down and he is assessed a full 15,200 sq. ft. for drainage. Mr. Stockwell: In looking at the aerial map, it appears that the back yard is draining to his neighbor's house. This is not a finished back yard and they can do something with it to get the drainage out so he didn't make an adjustment in that case. There is a high point on Mr. Turner's lot and it looks like it is draining to the left. In pinpointing the lot on the map, there is 890.8 elevation and the contour is at 890, almost a foot of fall in two directions so the water is draining around his house. There is also a 2 ft. contour so there is a very definite grade in his back yard toward his next neighbor's lot. He is draining into his neighbor's unfinished yard so an adjustment wasn't made there. His front yard doesn't drain fully to the street, however, the yards do drain in many cases through baCk\yardS and eventually out into the street. Mr. Turner was under the impression that only the front yard was taken into consideration and Mr, Stockwell said the whole lot is considered. Councilperson MCCl~e: Questioned what is the difference between this situation and the slough between 138th & Osage. That low spot goes through more than one yard. lœ. Stockwell: WheA he goes through these areas, one thing he takes into account is is this a finished back yard or an unfinished back yard. Recess: 8:50 p.m. I Reconvene: 9:25 p.m. I Mayor Windschitl: Stated he had looked at the old assessment rolls and once inside the boundary, it was virtually 100% assessed all the way through in Green Acres and Aud. Sub. #82. I 'Page #5 Minutes - September 29, 1977 Mr. Stockwell: He couldn't recall any major low spots in either one of those projects. In Aud. Sub. 82 there was one block that way but they put a catch basin in the middle of it so it is collecting the water from every back yard. Councilperson Vanderlaan: Asked the City Engineer what criteria is used on a large project such as this in other cities? Mr. Stockwell: He has personally surveyed all the storm sewer projects in the City of Andover and he feels he has treated them all the way way; what part of their lot drains into the system they are assessed for. He did the same thing in Forest Lake and they have the same assessment policy. Mayor Windschitl: He had been in Northwoods and told the residents with definite low spots that if they were within the boundary they would get 100% assessment as that was his understanding of the assessment policy. In looking at the Northwoods assessment roll, virtually all have 100% assessment, but in Red Oaks there are 11-12 lots not totally assessed. Mr. Stockwell: There is one full block between 140th Ave. and 139th La. - there must be very nearly 11 lots that aren't paying for a back yard assessment because it is a very obvious low spot. Councilperson McClure: He has a problem with the theory that if everything inside the boundary is assessed at 100% regardless of elevation, then how do we justify on the fringes drawing a line through somebody's property. The reason we do that, as he understands it, that only a portion drains into the system. Thus why wouldn't a big slough within the system,' something that wouldn't drain into the system, be treated the same as those on the fringes, Mayor Windschitl: He thought the same way and if previous tapes were researched, we would find comments in there of Dewey's that once a person was inside a boundary, it was 100% assessment. Mr. Stockwell: Heldidn't believe the Council would find that. If they did, it was being interpreted wrong. He was taught by Dewey and worked with him for four years. He was not infallible and he could make mistakes, but he would be more than willing to go out and take a second look. I The time factor of adopting the assessment roll was discussed. It was suggested to continue the Public Hearing to next Tuesday, October 4, 1977. If the assessment policy was changed, there wouldn't be enough time to get it certified this year since all the residents would have to be renotified. Attorney Hawkins stated if the assessment roll was not adopted and not on the tax rolls, then we wouldn't have any money to meet the bonded indebtedness. COUncilperson McClure asked the City Attorney if we adopted the assessment roll as it is now; could we change it next year if we amend the assessment policy. Attorney Hawkins said it was possible but many people are going to payoff their assessments and you would then have the problem of tracking them down to make an adjustment on the :original assessment. Mr. Thompson asked if the assessment date could be extended like it was last year and the City Clerk stated due to new legislation the County Auditor's office will not extend it one day this year. I On the question o~ the interest rate, Mayor Windschitl stated he was in favor of the 6.25%. Councilperson McClure agreed with him. Councilperson VanderLaan suggested that the Council ask for a recommendation from the City Clerk. Mrs, Lindquist said this year we received an Page #6 Miñutes - September 29, 1977 exceptionally low interest rate compared to last year and that is why she recommended the 6.50% to cover the delinquencies, Conncilperson Orttel commented that if the assessment policy is amended, we would incur some additional expenses and would probably have to go to the 6.50%. Mayor Windschitl stated you can't use additional expenses to justify an interest rate, it has to be cost of the project. Councilperson Orttel said it has to be part of the project if we go out and renotify everybody and try to track down people because they paid off their house, but if the Council was not considering that sort of thing at this time, he would go for the 6.25%. MOTION by Windschitl, secortded by Orttel, that the interest rate for the 77-1 project be set at 6.25% for the charge to the residents. VOTE ON MOTION: YES-Lachinski, Orttel, VanderLaan, Windschitl; PRESENT-McClure Motion carried. Discussion: The present vote reflects that Councilperson McClure would be directly involved in the project. MOTION by Vanderlaan, seconded by Orttel, to continue the assessment hearing for the Red Oaks and Northwoods storm sewer and street project to October 4, 1977 at 8:00 p.m. at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Blvd, N.W. MOtion carried unanimously. ~tfullY submitted: « a,ß//L/' . ae Ellen Bakke Recording Secretary {;;?i-t1"?/-.~....é /~/y;: Þ' /","/ ?