HomeMy WebLinkAboutJCC March 10, 1977
CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
March 10, 1977
MINUTES
A Special Meeting of the Andover City Council and the Andover Planning
and Zoning Commission was called to order at 7:30 P,M, by Mayor Gerald
Windschitl at the Andover Community Center, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW,
Anoka, Minnesota,
Council Members Present: Ted Lachinski, Robert McClure (arrived at 7:55),
Ken Orttel and Mary VanderLaan
Commissioners Present: d'Arcy Bosell, Walter Bruns, James Elling,
Chairman Don Jacobson, John Johanson, and
Ralph Kishel
Commissioner Absent: Larry Retzlaff
Also Present: Patricia K, Lindquist - City Clerk, Wes Mand - Park and
Recreation Commission Member, and Shirley Hatfield -
reporter for KANO radio
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Agenda Approval
,
Motion by Councilman Lachinski, seconded by Councilman Orttel, that
the Agenda be approved with the following additions:
SA - Crocus Street maintenance problem
5B - Lawsuit papers from Beckman
5C - Set date for meeting with the Metropolitan
Council staff
5D - Utility truck
Motion carried unanimously,
PRELIMINARY METROPOLITAN SYSTEM STATEMENT
Mayor Windschitl had discussed with Jim Barton (regarding the statement)
the folloWing: 1) airport - the airport portion is being revised and
should be' ready before October of this year, There is nothing definite
on this riow, 2) population projections - the Metropolitan Council
is reviewing in order to get it revised and Andover should document to
them where growth is expected and over what period of time, 3) Sandy
Dean, of 'the Metropolitan Council staff, may be at our meeting,
Special City Council/Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - March 10, 1977
Page 2
Chairman Jacobson had previously sent a letter (copy attached) to Mr,
Dean. Since the Council had not had the opportunity to review the
letter ahead of time, Chairman Jacobson read his letter and the group
discussed, compared, and commented on it and the systems statement,
Page 1 - population - now the population is split about 50/50 between
the rural and urban areas, Refer to page 18 - according to that and
their population estimate for page 2, we are going to lose over 3,000
people in the rural area, They are proposing 2,6 people per household,
whereas most polls show an average of 4 persons per household, In
summary, those present felt that the population estimates in this report
are wrong and unrealistic. It was suggested that Andover prepare a
study regarding population - existing population figures should be broken
down on a map,
Page 2 - housing - discussed the following: low cost housing; the
statement indicates Andover must provide for low and moderate income
housing ~ how does Andover "provide"? by private developer or deleting
the minimum allowable floor area in the zoning Ordinance or ?; low
cost housing requires public utilities which raises the land costs which
makes housing prohibitive for low or moderate income families; referred to
and discussed pages 154 and 155 of the Community Development Plan;
there is ,no definition of low cost housing, In summary, Andover should
ask for a clarification on "housing".
,
Pages 4, 5, 6, and 7 - Transportation - discussed: where the proposed
highways are to go, where all the figures and statements came from, the
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error in the total of "47,500 person trips" in Andover in 1990, asked
for traff,ic counts from Anoka County, and it appears that the MTC has
no plans for a bus route in Andover, therefore, must the City continue
to pay for busing that doesn't or will not exist1
I
Page 9 - Roadways - They compared the characteristics on page 9 with the
map on page 13 which shows, for example, CSAH #7, which the County is
putting $7,000,000 into, as a "Collector" along with Hanson Boulevard
and Roundl Lake Boulevard, The whole map is totally unrealistic. Discussion
on whether it made any difference to them (Met Council) if the map was
correct as long as #65 and #10 are shown accurately, Two items mentioned
that werelnot on the map but should be are Prairie Road as a MSAH and
the Rum River Crossing,
Page 14 l airports - discussed: getting an answer from them now on
the future airport plans before proceeding any further with this planning,
prematuredevelopment, and the statement on page 15 regarding seaplane
operations on Round Lake - it should be corrected,
Special City Council/Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - March 10, 1977
Page 3
Page 18 - Waste Management - The T,K,D,A, (June, 1976) storm sewer
plan was discussed which provides for combining with the Coon Rapids
Interceptor, According to their predictions, Andover would be unable
to plan or have any industrial use at all, Their employment figures
show that employment has doubled and there is no industry, This portion
needs clarification,
Recreation and Open Space - On page 25 the park they list now belongs
to Ramsey, Regional Trails - discussed who is putting in the trails,
Recess 9:18 to 9:40
Plan Content Guidelines
The Council and Commission went through the guideline page by page and
discussed the items that were inaccurate or that Andover has a problem
with,
Page 7(a) - discussed how the inventory of existing and future information
on housing is to be accomplished and whether it would be an invasion of
privacy, Discussed how they (Met Council) derive the power to force
Andover and the rest of the metropolitan area to comply with these
documents.
Airport 1 discussed the problem with Wold and that they operate as a
separate 'entity so therefore the City of Andover would receive nothing
if an airport took over the 74% of the City land they would require,
,
Page 8 - ,The City Council wishes a definition of the statement on page
8 - (2) (Policies on accommodating and protecting existing and planned
metropolitan systems and their capacities,)
Page 9 - !these items would require a large and expensive study. The
City Council would like to know if Met Council is willing to pay for
this, I
Page 10 - The Council wishes clarification on 2C (location, type and
capacity lof all existing treatment facilities , , ,) and on page 11 -
3A (Description and location map of existing sewerage problems, , ,),
Page 12 J Sa (Areas of the community where on-site systems are permitted
, , , ,) ~ould involve a major study to complete, The statements concerning
housing on pages 13 & 17 need clarification,
I
Briefly discussed the "Rules & Regulations" sent out by the Metropolitan
Council. I They appear to be conflicting, contradictory and not very
understandable,
I
Special City Council/Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - March 10, 1977
Page 4
The Metropolitan Council is holding a public hearing on Wednesday,
March 16th at 1:30 P,M, and 7:30 P,M, Discussed having representatives
attend the meeting and/or writing a letter expressing Andover's views
and opinions. Commissioner Bruns and Commissioner Elling and, if possible,
Councilman Lachinski would be willing to go to the hearing,
Councilman Lachinski gave copies to those present of a letter from
Bernard Steffen to the Ramsey City Council, He went to a Ramsey meeting
last night. He explained a portion of the Ramser Plan, Their City is
divided into Urban (l-acre lots), Transition (22-acre lots), and Rural
(5-acre lots), There will be no sewer plan until C,A,B, gets there
so they are having to come up with additional lot restrictions, They are not
going to have City sewer in the Transition or Rural areas, The on-site
systems will be covered by strict ordinances, Ramsey is asking for grant
money to help pay for this, If Andover is having to put in ponds, etc"
the City should be asking for grant money also, Councilman Lachinski
said that Ramsey's Attorney attends the Metropolitan Council meetings
as a Ramsey representative to better express their views, Mr, Lachinski
feels Andover should give serious consideration to hiring Bernard Steffan
as an aide.
Patricia K, Lindquist was directed to compose a letter stating all the
questions, clarification needed, and definitions requested from the
Metropolitan Council after the discussion held tonight, The Council
will look it over on Tuesday, March 15th and then send it to the Met
Council staff,
SA - Crocus Street maintenance problem
I
Crocus Street, from 138th Avenue to 140th Lane, is a disaster of mud and
water and la1most impassable, The City Engineer has stated that the
contracto~ had the wrong crown on the road which is causing this problem,
The mud will have to be taken out and Class 5 dumped in and spread,
Discussed 'the allowance in the budget for road improvement; how much it
will cost;! whether the contractor would pay for the improvement; and
the fact that this road will be torn up and blacktop and curb put in
this summer if final plans are approved, Counci1person VanderLaan was
concerned ~bout other road problems in the City and if this improvement
takes !¡; ofl the road budget, then what happens,
Motion by Commissioner Lachinski, seconded by Commissioner Ortte1, that
,
we authorize Patricia K, Lindquist to coordinate with James Thurston
to improve! Crocus Street, from 138th to 140th, only to make it passable,
Efforts to be coordinated with the contractor inasmuch as he is responsible
for the extreme poor condition of Crocus Street, Because of the critical
condition of the road, the road must be fixed whether or not the contractor
is wi11inglto do the work at his expense, In the event that the City
must perform the work, it will be billed back to the contractor.
Special City Council/Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - March 10, 1977
Page 5
Vote on motion: yes - McClure, Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl; no -
VanderLaan, Motion carried,
5B - Lawsuit papers from Beckman
The City was served papers today, Arnold Beckman, who did the streets
in Green Acres, went bankrupt and now Anoka Ready Mi~ is suing the City
of Andover, The City's Engineering firm, T,K.D,A" is aware of this,
5C - Set date for meeting with the Met Council staff
Motion by Councilman Orttel, seconded by Councilman McClure, that the
City Council set Thursday, April 7th, as a meeting date with representatives
from the Metropolitan Council to discuss the Preliminary Systems Statement,
Motion carried unanimously,
5D - Utility Truck
The Council referred to a memo from Pat Lindquist regarding a truck
that the City might be interested in purchasing, After a discussion
on reasons for buying it, the Clerk was directed to make a report of -
cost figures - how much would be saved - who would drive it - the
better service the citizens would receive, etc.
Ad;ournment
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Motion by Councilman McClure, seconded by Councilman Orttel, to adjourn,
Motion carried unanimously,
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Meeting adjourned at 11:15 P,M,
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Mr. Sandy Dean, Planner
Metropolitan Council
300 Metro Square Building
7th and Robert Streets
St. Paul, Minnesota 55101
Dear Mr. Dean:
Enclosed are my comments on the Metropolitan Council's
preliminary draft of the Metro System Statement for the
City of Andover, Anoka County, Minnesota. For ease in
deciphering my comments, I will go through the preliminary
draft page by page.
Page I, Part I - Population, Employment and Housing Need
Projections - I cite the population statistics as listed
in Table 1 for the City of Andover to be far too low. You
will note the City has grown from 3,830 to 8,295 in just
the six years between 1970 and 1976. Your population
forecast by 1990 of 9,500 I believe is not consistent with
past growth patterns and the number of new housing developments
within the City of Andover. An increase of 1,200 people
between 1976 and 1990 I do not believe can be substantiated.
The population increase for the year 2000 of 11,200 I believe
is also significantly too low. The reasons for these forecasts
being low will be considered when we talk later in this letter
about airport improvements within the City of Andover.
Also on Page 1 you talk about the expansion of urban service
area during the 1980s. I might point out that already in the
northwest part of Andover,basically along County Road 9,
a significant amount of construction has taken place and this
geographic area should probably be looked at for inclusion
within the urban service area in the very near future.
Page 2, Paragraph 3 - You discuss the need for additional housing
units to replace housing which may be removed due to age,
blight I and disaster. Since the City of Andover is relatively
new and expanding, the age and blight criteria would not be
partic~larly applicable. On Page 2, Paragraph 4 you speak
about the requirement for low and moderate income housing
and state any comprehensive plan must contain
,
a program for carrying out a low and moderate income housing
program. My question to you is how does a community assume
this responsibility. Should this rather be the responsibility
of private development in the area. I would also point out
. .
Page Two
that the City's zoning regulations and ordinances do not
preclude low and moderate income housing but are.only.
minimums required· to protect the health and welfare of
the City's residents. To lower our standards in zoning and
in building standards would be a detriment to the welfare of
the people of Andover. The reason I bring this out is that
in Paragraph 5 on Page 2, it says the City's housing program
should provide for codes and ordinances which permit the
construction of modest cost housing. I believe this area
will be very difficult for not only our community, but
others to implement. If you have any suggestions as to how
we can do it, I would appreciate your letting me know.
Under Metropolitan Facilities, Part A, Transportation, Page 5,
the preliminary draft speaks about anew Trunk Highway number
10 which will parallel to the north by about one-half mile the
existing Highway number 10. You state in Paragraph 1 on
Page 5 that the interchange locations for this new freeway
have not yet been determined. The City of Andover will need
a determination on exits and entries onto this new road
in order to intelligently plan its road program in the future.
I understand the Minnesota Highway Department is currently
doing planning in this area and it would be imperative we
receive information from either that department or you as
to plans,in order that the City may plan effectively what
needs to be done to make the City's roads and the Highway
Department's roads compatible. It is extremely difficult
to plan comprehensively for the City when there are so many
missing elements and inputs from outside sources.
Trunk Highway 65, which is discussed on the bottom of Page 5,
I wourd have no quarrel with; however, this would be premised
upon the fact that no new metropolitan airport is sited
for Anoka within the next 20 to 25 years. If a new airport
is planned for this area, plans for existing Trunk Highway 65
would probably be totally inadequate.
I
Under Mass Transit on Page 6 you state, "A specific transit
plan for the metropolitan area, applying these concepts to
actuall service, will be prepared by the Metropolitan Transit
Commission by the end of 1977." Here again, it is difficult
to plan when the wishes of other agencies are not known.
You also go on to speak about existing transit services
in th~ city which have not been analyzed ror consistency and
that existing bus service routes and schedules are not fixed.
Here again, the problem for planning is hampered by solid
outlines from the MTC.
I
Under General Planning Considerations at the bottom of Page 6,
you state the highway system and transportation policy plan
are based upon the populatiòn figures given on Page 1. Since
Page Three
I am assuming the population figures on Page 1 , Table 1
are in error, I must also assume your highway system and
policy plan are also in error.
On Page 7 in the last paragraph you indicate the City of
Andover must submit a traffic assignment zone plan. My
question to you is who pays for this rather expensive undertaking?
I certainly hope the City of Andover will not be expected to
contribute any sizable amounts of money toward this venture
without considerable assistance from funds allocated by the
Metropolitan Council.
On Page 9, Table A 2, Functional Classification System for
Roadways - I might point out that under the headings Minor
Arterial, Collector and Local, the City of Andover may have
some difficulty. I don't believe the standard suggestion
would b~ entirely applicable to the City because of large rural
areas vs. urban areas. It seems to me entirely feasible for
Andover to install a large amount of Class 5 roads in the
city which would be adequate for its needs into the foreseeable
future rather than using paving as is suggested.
On the map called 1990, Transit Plan Designated as Figure 3,
you indicated only one intermodal transfer terminal in the
Anoka area. I think you should probably look at expanding
transit plans north and east of the city of Anoka to
accommodate the expected population increase.
Page 14, Subsection B, Airport - Quite frankly, Sandy, I
find this section the most troublesome and the most disturbing.
I am well aware the Metropolitan Airports Commission did
suggest the Township of Grow as a site for a future
metrop~litan airport in the early 1980s. "hile that plan
has apparently shelved for the preßent, it appears from your
preliminary system statement which begins on Page 14, that
this area is still under active consideration as a new
airpor~ site if and when it is needed. I guess this is what
gives me the problem, the if and when it is needed.
I
All th~ way through this airport subsection we are apparently
to keef the airport search area open for possible acquisition
by the MAC at some future date. I see where the MAC is revising
its air traffic demands and airport needs. This should be
ready in late 1977. But, the City of Andover must now plan
for this airport search area and make its plans known to the
Metropolitan Council. Should a major new airport be sited
in the I present City of Andover, population figures will skyrocket.
It would require the expansion of city sewer and water,not
only to the airport proper, but to all the auxiliary businesses
which will pop up because of the airport. This will also
require additional city fire, schools, utilities, roads and
probably a host of other things I can't even think of at the
present time.
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Page Four
If the City of Andover is planning now to include the year
2000, and is revising its ordinances and zoning to meet
these expected demands, I would point out that if an airport
is located in the City, the whole comprehensive plan would
be no good. It is, therefore, imperative the city know of the
MAC's plans for our area. But yet, at the' same time, I
understand that nobody has yet determined what those plans
will be. It seems we are caught in the middle. He must
plan for any contingency but yet we are not sure what those
contingencies are.
Apparently the Metropolitan Council's solution to this problem
is found on Page 15, Paragraph 2. "Land use in Andover seems
to be met by the location of this search area in the rural
use region. Planning that is compatible with the preservation
of rural land use will also tend to preserve the site for timely
acquisition and airport development." It appears the
Metropolitan Council wishes the majority of Andover to remain
largely rural residential and rural agricultural usage.
I think this philosophy will be extremely difficult for the
City of Andover,from a financial point of view, to adhere to.
Our city must grow. The way it can grow is planned stage
development to the north and east.' I think the airport
issue probably represents an insoluble problem both to the
city and Metropolitan Council at the present time.
In Subsection C, Haste Management, Page 18, Second Paragraph,
you state the daily average load flow in 1990 is .81
million gallons. This fact is based on a residential
population of 8,500 with no anticipated flow from industry.
I might point out that the location of a major airport in
the City of Andover will greatly increase the need for
major interceptors to serve the community. . It appears to
me at the bottom of the second paragraph there may be possible
problems downstream from constrictors in present interceptors
and this is the reason a total flow of .81 mgd in 1990 is
Andover's allotment. Perhaps the Council should look at
revising this flow estimate in the line of possible airport
development with its auxiliary business establishments.
Perhaps the Metropolitan Council and the Hastewater Commission
shoul~ look at increasing the size of these interceptors
before! 1990. .
Also on Page 18, Paragraph 3, you state, "The ultimate
capacity available to your community in a particular interceptor
may no't be stated because it has not yet been determined."
You stated the ffi,CC is scheduled to be done with a planning
study ~n 1979. I say that is great, but how in the world
are we in Andover to plan if we do not have facts and figures
about wastewater flow until late 1979?
Page Five
In the bill which set up the land planning act, Section 6,
Page 2, it states we must submit to the Metropolitan Council
our plans prior .to October 1, 1978. If the wastewater
study is not to be finished until 1979, that makes planning
very difficult.
On Page 19 under the title for both the Anoka northeast
interceptor MSB-7034 and the Coon Rapids interceptor MSB-525,
you state you do not know the exact ultimate capacity of these
interceptors and that information will not be ready until
1979. Here again, this makes planning extremely difficult.
In summary, I find the preliminary system statement for the
city of Andover having insufficient details in the area of
population density, airport information and sewer information.
Without those three areas very clearly oùtlined by the
Metropolitan Council, it will be extremely difficult for
the City to make reasonable judgQents and undertake planning
activities which will be in compliance with the land planning
bill. I hope you will be able to give me some satisfactory
answers to the questions I have raised.
In conclusion, I want to point out this letter is a reason
of my own observations on the draft you have submitted to me.
D~l , .fl3lìD
Don Jacobs n, Chairman
Plannin~ d Zoning Commission
City of Andover
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