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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC November 1, 1977 < . CITY of ANDOVER REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MBETING - NO'lEMBER 1, 1977 !1INUTES The Regular Hi-Monthly Ileeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Jerry ~indschitl on November 1, 1977, 7:36 p,m" at the Andover City H~ll, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard }ny, Anoka, Minnesota, Councilpersons present: Lachinski, Orttel, VanderLaan Councilperson absent: McClure !\.lso "resent: City Attorney~ William G, Hawkins and John Burke; City Engineer, "ex Stockwell; City Clerk, P, K, Lindquist; and interested resident, l'esident F'orum ~inslow Holasek. 11~9 Andover Boulevard }!W - questioned if Prairie Road was going to be a q-ton road. At the Public Hearin~s it was specificallycstated it would be a 9-ton road: however, now he is told only the urban area plus approximately 150 feet beyond the curbing would be 9 ton and the rest of the road would be 7 ton, He questioned if this would restrict him from using the road with his equipment, There are many heavy trucks using tl-¡at road, Mayor Windschitl stated the Engineer has requested this item be added to the at;enda. Agenda A111,roval MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, to approve the Agenda with the following correctìns: Add Item5e, Prairie Road Update; and Add Item 10d, P & Z Interview, !1otion carried unanimously. F.asement ADProvals Attorney Hawkins explained the request for easement acquisitions for the 1977-1 project and also presented a copy of the settlement stipulation with ~~, Conroy of the terms and conditions under which the landowner can remove the black dirt, The figure reflects the revised acreage for !1r, Conroy, M~, Hawkins also noted that on the Conroy property the City will still have to pay some 1978 taxes, In discussing the settlement with M~, Naegeli, Hr, Hawkins stated that the agreement was that the City would compensate for any trees damaged during construction, ~T, Stockwell testified that there were no trees disturbed on the !1aegeli property, 11r. Hawkins also stated there are only two easements remaining on the ponding sites, On the Prairie IRoad Project, Conrad Harren is being compensated $600 for eleven oak trees that were remo~ed from his property; and on the Winslow Holasek settlement, M~, Hawkins reported that Hr, Holasek is appealing the award, !Iowever, under Minnesota Statute, he is entitled to 13/4 of the award plus $300 for !1r, Holasek's appraiser, Mr, Hawkins is also going to petition District Court to get back monies that have been escrowed, I MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, approving the purchase of certain land in the '~~ ( City of Andover for the e of ponding areas Condemnation Parcel No, 6, Kenneth Eveland, $2,R7~; Condemnation Parcel No, 1, James Conroy, ~3,155; Condemnation Parcel No, 2, James Conroy, $455; Condemnation Parcel No, 3, James Conroy, $400). (See Resolution R128) !lotion carried unanimously, I MOTION by Lach~nski, Seconded by Orttel, to approve easement purchase for the construction of street and storm sewer for the 1977-1 Improvement Project area (R, W, Johnson, $728,40: I James Strombeck, $153,62; Ronald Naegeli, $336), Discussion was on whether or not the motion should indicate the settlement agreement to pay $40 per tree damaged on Hr, ~megeli's property, even though the Engineer testified to date no trees have been damaged, Regular City Council Meeting November 1, 1977 - !-!inutes Pap;e 2 (Easement Approvals, Continued) Pich~rd Schneider, Former ~~yor, questioned why the easements that were already there wel"e not used for this project. !~, Stockwell reported they did use what easements we could, but it depended on where ~he low spots happened to fall in the streets, !'.r , Schneider responded that those 5 easements that were there took care of the water before, rtS they were where the water did run. Councilperson Lachinski ADD~D TO MOTION: after the listing of the amounts to say: In reg~rds to the Ron ~aegeli property, if any trees are damaged, payment will be made in the ~mount of t40 per tree, Second still stands, (See Resolution R129) !1otion carried unanimously. !-!OTIO~ by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, accepting for easements for payment for same for the Improvement of MSAH Prairie Road (Parcel No, 8 and 9, Conrad Harren, 5600 for trees only), (See Resolution R130) !-!otion carried unanimously, MOTIO~ by Lachinski, Seconded by VanderLaan, to approve payment of 75 percent of award by District Court Commissioners as a result of Holasek Condemnation proceedings (Payment to Holasek forl~6,300 plus interest at a rate of 6 percent incurred from the date of award until the date of payment plus 5300 to the Appraiser for !~, Holasek), (See Resolution R131) !-!otion carried unanimously, Tree Penl~cement F.ngineer Stoc~ell summarized a TKDA letter to the Council dated October 26, 1977, regarding the replacement of two maple trees damaged during the 1976 sanitary sewer project which were overlooked previously, The property owner has agreed to the replacement of 3 smaller trees r~ther t~an 2 trees of identical size, After checking, ~æ, Stockwell felt those trees could be ¡rePlaced at about ~25 each, He also felt it should be done by the survey crew. I!OTIO~ by VanderLaan, Seconded by Lachinski, that the City Council authorize Rex Stockwell, TKDA F.ngineer, Ito have replaced on 138th and Crocus three maple trees damaged during construction o~ the 1976 sanitary sewer construction project at a cost not to exceed $75, ~otion carried unanimously. I Mayo-B~nkey Litigation , H~yor Windschitl stated a signed copy by Mayo and Bankey's attorney was received agreeing-to the proposal that was generated at a Special Closed Council Meeting on October 5, He then summ~rized the I'ayo-Bankey lawsuit relative to what Council action has taken place, stating that th'e Council must vote once more on whether or not to accept the amended , settlement stiuplation agreed to by Mayo and Bankey, 1 Mayor Windschitl then read the letter from Dick Nowlin, Staff Counsel of the Hetropolitan Council dated October 21, 1977, regarding his findings and opinions of this litigation, , Attorney Hawkin~ stated that in his letter he tried to set out the facts that existed prior to the time that many of the Council members were sworn in; the moratorium issue was one he felt the Council was well aware of and was, therefore, not dealt with at any depth, , Before M~yor Windschitl read his memo stating his major objections about this plat, Counc~- person VanderLaan felt the Council should examine whether another detailed discussion on , . this should be gone into, as there were deta11s alluded to at the Closed Hearing that the Council is aware of that are not general public knowledge and asked if this would weaken our position should the Council decide to reject the stiuplation and it goes to court, Mayor Windschitl stated the reason for his memo was he was told by the City Clerk that this was reouired to be put on the Agenda to approve the agreement, He felt it should be done "egular City Council Heeting November 1, 1977 - Minutes Page 3 (Hayo-Bankey Litigation, Continued) at a public meeting as the residents are entitled to know what is going on, Councilpers01 VanderLaan did not object to their right and stated she had no objections to talking with any individual about the case, and again asked what this dcrs to a possible court action, John Burke, with the Babcock, Locher Law firm that represents the City - ïilien involved in a lawsuit, you are at odds with someone and anything that is said here publically is available to the other side, At the closed session, everything is in confidence as an attorney-client relationship, If we do go to court, everything is recorded and obviously the other side will research everything that is said pUblically, If they can use some- thing against us, they will, In lawsuits, you don't generally volunteer information, Councilperson VanderLaan felt that a discussion here tonight would not be a thorough dissemination of all of the items since, as a protection to the City, there are things she didn't wish to make public at this time that could be used by the developer in a lawsuit, Therefore, the whole picture cannot be presented at this time, and she asked for the Mayor's discretion about the case, Mayor 1Vindschitl again stated the memo states his objections to the settlement and saw nothing in that memo that would prejudice the case, Councilper Iron Lachinski stated there are a lot of interested residents in the audience, and they should be given the opportunity to hear both sides of the agrument, Mayor Windschitl then read the part of his memo on the filing of the Final Plat as to why didn't the developers file this plat during the short period of time when the Interim Ordinance was not in effect, Councilperson Lachinski asked the Attorney if he had the same information available as now when he indicated we should go to court with this, ~~, Hawkins responded they had everything that was in the City files at that time, which did include the memo from TKDA indicating what had to be done on the Final Plat to comply, He also stated this settlement proposal was made when the plat complied with the Ordinance in effect at that ~ime, and we were not operating under the Interim Ordinance, \'fuen the original legal opinion was issued as to the disposition of this, !'T, Hawkins stated the platting had gone on for about three years; and his opinion was based on the Ordinance, which states they have 6 months to act and he was operating on the length of time that had lapsed since the last action, He did not take into account that there may have been some implied approval of the Plat by the previous City Council, !~, Hawkins also stated that at that time neither Babcock, Locher, nor anybody in the City was aware of the com- plication with the parkland, Councilperson VanderLaan questioned whether the wording "formal approval" in the Ordinance means the signature of the Hayor and Clerk on the hard shell or is it simply the motion made and passed by the Council, ~~, Hawkins stated if there are stipulations on the Plat, they must be complied with, This was a question of whether or not the Plat had been even filed with the City within the necessary time, I Mayor Windschitl read that portion of his memo relating to the Park Dedication requirements, as the proposed :settlement allows the plat to be filed with a parkland deficiency of "pproxim"tely ,79 acres, Councilperson':Lachinski stated that had there been a larger lot adjacent to the Iproperty, we could have possibly bargained for that, As it is, we took the largest lot ladjacent to the parkland, Councilperson VanderLaan stated consideration I must "Iso be given to the fact that the City dug a pond on private property, Hayor , Windschitl stated we've had testimony from the City Clerk and a Park Board member that ahe , had authorization from Hayo to go onto that property, Councilperson VanderLaan also stated "nother questio~ for consideration is if we dug the pond, is the City in a sense indicating that we have acknowledged proper filing of the situation, Hayor WindSChitll then read his memo with regard to street requirements on the plat, Council- person VanderLaan noted that if the developer were required to file 2*-acre lots on the plat, the adopted City street standards do not require blacktop streets, Mayor Windschitl stated his objection is that the developers are not being required to put in the blacktop streets like any other developer before we issue a number of building permits, Council- --- " - Regular City Council Meeting November 1, 1977 - Hinutes Pap;e 4 (Mayo-Bankey Litigation, Continued) person VanderLaan stated there is no hard and fast rule as to exactly what happens, that the operation is between the City and the developer where terms are set for the good of both parties, The insurance is that we demand a letter of credit or a bond to insure that the residents who buy those lots are not left holding the bag, Imyor ITindschitl then read the section of his memo of Public Hearing on the Plat and the Variance from Ordinance, !~, Burke stated that if the settlement stipuliation is accepted, then the parkland as designated in the settlement stipulation would be the parkland accepted by the City and donated by the developer, The listing of a variance some time later on would be a formality because the real decision on that would be made by accepting or rejecting the settlement stipulation, He continued, the settlement stipulation is supposed to be the document to represent the discussion that took place during the closed session, and a separate variance would not be required because they are issues in the case that are part of the settlement stipulation that would be decided by its acceptance or rejection, Attorney Hawkins added that the variances should be noted so there is no doubt what they are, The reason for the variances are implicit in the settlement, Councilperson Orttel mentioned that when talking about the street widths, one is actually talking right of way widths, The streets themselves will be the same paved width as the rest of the City, Also, at the last meeting the Engineer informed the Council that he wouldn't have a problem with the 50-foot streets, Mayor ITindschitl's concern with the 50- foot right of way is if the developer were required to put in 66-foot right of ways, a majority of the lots would be less than one acre, which wouldn't comply with our zoning, IT, Stockwell commented that the streets will conform to the standards adopted in May, 1976, for one-acre lots -- temporary urban streets, 32 feet wide, It inches of bituminous and 4- inch bituminouslbirm, storm catch basins, manholes, and underground s~orrn drainage. In discussing whether or not Tulip was an arterial or collector street, "T, Stockwell stated one should see what the County thoroughfare plan classifies it as; and as far as he could recall, the County classified County Road 58 as a collector street, Hayor ITindschitl stated that ourlOrdinance defines an arterial street as a right of way of 100 feet; Tulip Street would have an excess of 100 feet; therefore, roads coming out onto it should be a distance of 6ïO feet apart. Councilperson Lachinski reviewed some of the facts for the residents present pertaining to the number of buildable lots in this plat (45); the sequence of events indicating why there may be some partial fault on the part of the City with regard to the park problem; , whether the Final Plat became void when the developers failed to secure an extension for the filing of their plat; the increased cost of development today as opposed to those in , 1975 when they were ready to file the final plat of the Fourth Addition; the July 29, 1974, memo to the developers from TKDA stating what needed to be done in the Fourth Addition for street and storm sewer construction; and the damages the developers are asking from the City, I Hayor ITindschitll commented that a Town Board member at that time has stated that there was in no way any approval given for the Fourth Addition at the Hay 14 meeting, What they did was to layout the requirements under these Ordinances of what they had to do if they wanted to file the plat'; and they chose not to do it, He no\v felt that they are trying to make the City pay fori something they could have done under normal Ordinances at that time, Councilperson VanderLaan added what it means is that financially should the City lose the entire case, the tax levy in the City would have to double, By bringing this plat to a level that is mOfe acceptable is better than if we would lose all in court, The Ordinances specifically did not change; they allowed one-acre lots; they are in effect today except for the Interim Ordinance in effect today, The issue is very complex, She felt one of tm things the court would look atË how has Andover dealt with its development in the past, -- -- Regular City Council Meeting november If 1977 - !·!inutes Page 5 (Hayo-~~nkey Litigation, Continued) Is there any argument in favor of the developers to point to the fact that we may be sin~ling this particular situation out with the passage of Ordinances, She personally felt that l~rger lot sizes should be required; however, we can't deal with that and have to look at the Ordinances as they exist and at the financial health of the City, Also, the Interim Ordinance was passed after the settlement stipulation was offered, Council- ~ersQn Vanderlaan continued, the Council did agree that the figure was an inflated figure, but it does not include the legal costs that we would incur, and some costs in here the developer will incur because of the time period, It has also been determined that we will be suffering some very serious exposure in the park area. Councilperson Lachinski responded he would not agree that any reasonable court would provide the opponents with 5150,000, Testimony was then heard from the public, John Ward, 13611 r,ladiola Street ¡nv - had no real interest in this particular situation except that initially he saw a 6-mile sewer main going up there at a million dollars a mile and was afraid he'd end up paying part of it, In his opinion, if this Council is considering giving into these unreasonable requests, we already lost it, He agreed that no court is going to settle for $150,000, It was his opinion that the developers are trying to pull a fast one on the City with the City to underwrite the costs that they can't bring up to capitalize their operation, He also questioned the safety hazard of placing the streets coming onto Tulip 450 feet part as the settlement stipulation proposes, l!r . Ward went on to say, the developers have filed the lawsuit to cover their own ineptitude and lack of foresight; they have had more than ample time and opportunity to file a Preliminary and Final Plat, Even then, they have the gaul to ask for variances that would subvert a number of existing Ordinances, The basis of the lawsuit seems to focus on the fact that the city started to improve the proposed parkland, He felt the City of Andover , started to improve the land in good faith that these people would come back with a final , and correct plat, He felt the City shouldn't give in to what is thinly disguised legal , extortion, An out of court settlement should be accepted provided the stipulations of the a~reement are made public ~nd this goes to a public hearing to get feedback from the residents. It also bothers him that he gets the feeling that the Council is afraid of going to court,! Councilperson Lachinski explained the plaintiffs have agreed to the counterproposal; all that is needed now is for the Council to approve it, It was stated that almost all~facts have been brought out tonight in the discussion and in the !~yor's letter; and tha the settlement stipulation is not a secret document, Councilperson , VanderLaan again stated the City took the proposal by Mayo and Bankey and brought it up to the standard!of Ordinance 10 except for the parkland and the discussion on the street right of way meeting minimum provisions, The Council also needs to look at how it dealt with other developers in the City in that many times minimum standards were not met, !1ayor Windschitl disputed that statement and stated the objections raised in his memo deal strictly with the settlement stipulation, r~, Ward felt they are using a club by threaten- , ing with a lawsuit to bring the City to its knees to get the variances, and he didn't like it, In discussion between !~, Ward and Councilperson VanderLaan, she stated she would not have compromised a settlement as easily had the threat of a lawsuit not been present, Winslow HolasekJ Former CouncilTIerson - stated wholesale variances haven't been made in the past, but negotiation has been done in the past; and this wouldn't be the first case , there was ever negotiations between a developer and the City, He continued, unfortunately, there is no clear-cut answer here, and the Council has to weigh in their best judgement, as the Council, "lS elected officials, has the responsibility of doing this, I Walter Bruns, 1721 Orchid Street - lives in the area, and was concerned about higher density housing coming out there and felt we ought to go on record supporting 2+ acre lots again. Since 1976, except for a three-month period, the Council has unanimously been in - - " T'egular City Council Heeting ~~ovember 1, 1977 - Hinutes Page 6 (!1ayo-Bankey Litigation, Continued) support of the 2t acre lots, and the Planning and Zoning Commission had unanimously agreed to throw out the plat when it was discussed at the September Council meeting, He felt the only real issue here is the park, and he didn't think that was much of an issue if we had to give a little on that, I~, Bruns didn't want the $150,000 lawsuit to play havoc with the planning of the City, He wants the developer to meet the requirements of 2~acre lots and to come back at a public hearing before the residents in that area, as the Council counteroffered without even having a public hearing, Councilperson Orttel stated we are dealt the responsibility of enforcing the Ordinance that exists, which, until that last meeting, says I-acre lots in that area, The P & Z has been working almost a year to revise the ordinance; we have seen no revision, and he hadn't seen an opinion from the P & Z on this particular case either, Councilperson Orttel continued, the Chairman of the P & Z was at the closed meeting, sawall the facts, and he then helped us vrrth the revision, The problem we have is that we have policy and we have Ordinances, Policy is 27 acre lots but Ordinance says I-acre lots, The settlement stipulation brought them into conformance with our Ordinance, and that's what we have to follow, Councilperson VanderLaan again stated she felt everyone was in favor of larger lots in the area; however, one-acre lots at this time happen to be the law, We'd like to see something different, but it didn't get done, Ralph Kishel, 3934 173rd Lane, the west end of Cedar Crest Third Addition - member of the Planning and Zoning Commission - his main concern in this area is the density of housing existing now, There have been many sewer failures, To allow further I-acre lots in this area, he believed, would give a very heavy load on the possibility of getting sewer in thE area. He didn't feel a judge would award the $150,000 being asked and after reviewing the circumstances, he felt the expense of extending the sevœ that far can't possibly weigh against the lawsuit and the darger' we suffer, Another concern is one-acre lots in that area is not reasonable when we 're trying to develop a reasonable plan for the City to grow, He also stated the sewers that had failed were put in at the time Cedar Crest Third . , Addition was developed, 1972-73, when the old Ordinance requiring two tanks without the , drainfield was in effect, Barbara OSiecki,1 3671 172 Lane - stated there's not 2t acres up there and we run into a sewer problem. She felt the plat should be thrown out on health and hazard, They moved here to get awa~ from city water and sewers, and felt we shouldn't condemn ourselves, She asked how much is it going to cost us in more taxes to put through that sewer when needed because of the 47 additional homes, She felt it's going to cost a lot more than what the lawsuit will cost, It also makes Tulip a thoroughfare with the extra homes and cars, She didn't feel it was fair the residents had to accept what the Council felt was a settlement without knowing what is going on, I Kent West, 3850 173rd Lane - asked if a vote was taken on the original plat, Ms, VanderLaan stated there waslno vote and the issue is was their Final Plat approved, The town board did approve the prel minary, Hayor Windschitl stated the Final Plat was never approved by vote by either the ToWn Board or the Council, }~, West asked if there was any discussion at any , time as to the implication of sewer requirements in that area if the one-acre lots were approved, HayorlWindsch1tl stated no; that to the best of his knowledge no soil borings were taken on that plat, Councilperson Orttel stated the plat had been reviewed, so the Engineer had to have approved the plat. Each lot r~uires that information before a build- ing permit can b~ issued, If the land can support an on-site sewage system, a building permit will be issued, !~, West commented that the developers shouldn't be allowed to do this; , that somewhere along the line he should be made to stop, The City took a swamp for the park, and he felt that was of little importance, He also felt the City should be fighting the lawsuit, Councilperson Orttel stated it was his understanding that the people were very much interested in keeping that park at the last meeting, as that was one of the reasons people bought their homes where they did, - "- - Re~ul~r City Council Meeting Hovember 1, 1977 - !1inutes Page 7 (H~yo-Bankey Litigation, Continued) Don Ahlberg, 17538 Blackfoot - stated there were people who wanted that park there, but that in no way was to support Mr, Bankey's current intention, MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, that the agenda be modified for this evening to include only Items 5c, !:ayo-Bankey Litigation, Item 5d, Metropolitan Council - Systems statement; Item 5e, Prairie Road Update; Item 7a, Oak Hollow Preliminary Plat/Variance; Item 8cl, Finance Committee, Item 8c2, Road Committee; and Claims, Discussion: Council- person Orttel felt a time limit should be set, Councilperson Lachinski asked if there was any possibility the Council could meet prior to the next regularly scheduled meeting, VOTE ON !-lOTION: YES-Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl; NO-VanderLaan as she was not allowed to site the one item she wished deleted, Motion carried, Jim Green, 3953 174th Avenue - adjoining the property in question - has been living here 6 years and attending Council meetings 5T years; and at every Council meeting this tbyo question comes up and every Council cringed, He felt it was time to cut them off here, If it takes a lawsuit to do it, he flit the City has enough leg to stand on with its documents that it wouldn't be any problem winning or at least coming out ahead, Oeor~e Beavin~, 3734 174th Avenue - asked if everyone-acre lot would be buildable (yes), Then the developer will double his money, He worked on the swamp and asked what's to stop him from going back to the City and getting his labor on it, He felt the City ought to take them to court, D~ve O~~p, 17471 Blackfoot - asked if other builders submitted plats in the City and how big are their l~ts, )'ayor Windschitl stated 2+ acres in the nonsewered area, Hr, Gapp stated when he bought his lot 2+ years ago, all the maps showed the park, and that was one of the selling points he bought his lot on, Councilperson Orttel stated the developer doesn't argue with that but is saying that's how he knew it was approved because the City \Vent in there, \ Hr. Ahlberg - questioned Councilperson Orttel's statement on the park, Councilperson Orttel explained it lead credence to the fact that he thought he had approval, The developer is saying he had approval, so why should he have acted shocked when the City took the par& !·'r, Ahlberg felt: this \Vas different than what was said at the previous Council meeting and that the Council is buying his argument, !Ie asked if they received final approval, Councilperson Orttel stated he's claiming yes; we're claiming no, !1ayor Windschitl again stated there is hothing in the minutes of either the Town Board or the Council where he received final aþproval on the Fourth Addition, and this is al\Vays done in a formal vote, Mr, Ahlberg felt we've got a legitimate case to pursue in court and didn't see any reason why this Council should sellout their constituents for the sake of possibly saving a few dollars. Councilperson Lachinski qustioned is it the intent of the residents to go for broke because of possible sewer problems in the future, or are they \Villing to compromise at least to , the point of this developer meeting all points of our Ordinance, which states one-acre lots, General reaction [from the audience was against compromise of one-acre lots, Councilperson Lachinski also stated that in the past any time someone has filed a plat, we allowed the plat to go through to its final states whether or not an Interim Ordinance was in effect, 1 Dick Schneider, 1343 Andover Boulevard !n7, Former !~yor - was on the Tovm Board when the Final Plat was supposedly brought in, May, 1974. The Preliminary was brought in in 1973 and was approvedj ITe didn't recall if there waS a vote taken on it or not by the Town , Board, but he knew that Chuck Bankey was told to go to our Attorney and have the performance contract completed and that the Hard Shell would be signed, Hr, Bankey was to sign a con trac t , post bond, and do everything on the roads that were supposed to be done to meet the Ordinæce, - -- -- -- Pegular 'City Council Heeting !fover.tber 1, 1977 - !!inutes P"ge 8 (lIayo-Bankey Litigation, Continued) 1~, Bankey was having a problem in 1973 bec"use of the change in the City's road standards and that was the reason this dragged along, ~~, Schneider felt that after the Council met with their Attorney and they made him an offer which waS accepted, the Council should stick with their decision, If this whole thing would have gone as it was supposed to, it would have been built a long time ago, He continued, some people screaming the loudest here are also living on one-acre lots, but they don't want anyone else living on an acre lot. He would be concerned about having to extend sewer when it's not necessary, but from all talks over the past 8 years to various men from the University, Engineers, etc, if a IDt' is suitable on high ground, they say there's no problem with an acre lot, A whole sewer system can be rebuilt three different times on one acre, He felt talk of having to build a sewer line out there is just scare talk, He continued, in 1975 he believed the Council was misinformed that the parkland did belong to the City, It was the vŒong information; otherwise, he didn't think the Council would have turned the developer down when he asked for an extension in 1975, Hrs. Thomas licK-rank, 3654 172nd Lane 11\7 - felt more homes out there would provide a health hazard; there's no police protection; roads are in bad shape now -- more carS will increase traffic and make roads worse, 1'I, Schneider stated at the ti~e the City was zoned, a planner recommended one acre lots should remain that way forever, a kind of country-estate type area, And the City was assured there was no contamination with sewer on one-acre lots, Nancy Strohmayer, 3679 173 Lane rn7 - how can the Council vote on this when none of the people knew this was going on? Vlliy weren't we notified? If the people knew what was going on, there would have been a lot more here tonight, By publicizing it as l!ayo-Bankey, the people don't know who or what it is all about, ~~, Schneider - when that plat was originally brought in, there was a public hearing, Councilperson Lachinski felt lla, Strohmayer's point was a good one and felt there wasn't enough residents here to make a decision tonight, Larry Retzlaff, 113958 Ni~hten~ale Street ~ITI - Planning and Zoning Chairman - attended the City>Council mesting and the Sp9cial Closed Heeting, He stated you're almost asking for a vote from the 'audience, which isn't the City of Andover as there are many more people , involved than are here, He didn't think the Council should base their opinion and vote on , what was heard tonight, You have met with your attorney on a client-attorney basis and have gotten a co'nsiderable amount of information, Add what you hear tonight to the knowledge you have alread~ gained, The people here tonight have a valid point, but what they don't have is the total picture, They have the right to know what is going on, but not violating the client-attorrey relationship before the trial, As the Planning Commissioner, !~, Retzlaff was very adament about not wanting one-acre lots out there, but asked if we have a legal leg to stand on not to permit one-acre lots, When this City entered into good , faith negotiations with the plaintiffs, we had one-acre zoning out there, That all has to be taken into consideration before a partial view is taken into consideration, I Councilperson Lachinski felt he didn't really know what the people are saying as it was , not advertised as to what the situation is, It bothered him that this City has not been getting any news I coverage and he felt we need additional citizen input in this matter before a decision can be made, He asked if anybody really feels that another 45 lots is going to add to the problem, realizing that the problem from here forward should be taken , care of as no preliminary plats will be allowed with less than 2t acre lots, I Sue 1'lest, 3850 173rd Lane - moved here in 1972 because of the rural area; their builder told them it would be five to ten years before anyone built in the woods behind them -- the next summer ther~ were three roads with houses, She lives on a one-acre lots, Council- person Lachinski asked if she thought the sewer line is going to have to come out there to serve the people that ar9 out there now, She stated yes, Councilperson Lach1ns~~ stated if that's the case, how will 45 additional homes hurt anything1 - -- Pe~ular 'City Council Meeting ~rovember 1 t 1977 - Hinutes "age 9 (ImYO-Bankey Litigation, Continued) Mr. Ahlberg - if we're going to court and this is what we want, then there is no need to know the information given by the attorneys in the closed meeting, If we're not going to court, then tell us, Mayor Windschitl stated there is very little that hasn't come out here. The only item that hasn't corne out is the attorney did make some appraisal as to how the park would be looked at, Discussion was on postponing the item to an additional meeting; informing the people as to what is going on via the Anoka Union; possibly getting a news item in it; the City Clerk will provide information to anyone interested in the case, Recess at 10:30; meeting reconvened at 10:44 p,m, MOTION by Windschitl, Seconded by Lachinski, that the City Council, City of Andover, reject the proposed settlement stipulation dated October 28, 1977. Discussion: Councilperson Lachinski stated the residents in the area are extremely concerned about this plat and felt they would like to know more about what is going on, For that reason, rather than voting on this matter tonight, he wanted to see the publication in the paper, g'et facts together for the people, and set another meeting date, He also preferred having an entire Council present. VOTE 0'1 !10TION: YES-Windschitl; NO-Orttel, VanderLaan; PRESE!IT-Lachinski Motion defeated, MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, to have a Special Council Meeting on the matter of the Hayo-Bankey Lawsuit on 'lovember 29, 7:30 p,m., Andover City Hall, Discussion: Attorney Burke commented the status of the case now is simply that it has been called for trial and has been continued by consent of both sides, ITe will try to get a continuance of the court matter until sometime after the 29th, as we are on a standby basis more or less while we ar~ negotiating this, A very small possibility exists that a motion could be made to have the matter placed on before the 29th, fmtion carried unanimously. Discussion was on how to inform the people of everything that has happened, Charlie Vieman stated the newsletter could be mailed out to all residents containing information , on the lawsuit before the November 29 meeting, Gary White, l74t~ - invited the Council to look at the property in question, Several Councilmembers indicated they have already looked at it, . I !1etropol1.tan Council - Systems Statement 1 Vie Ward, regional economist for the !!etropolitan Council, explained briefly the letter of !Tovember 1, 1977; from Mæ, Hazanec, Policy Planner of the !!etropolitan Council with regard to his proposal on the Metropolitan Systems Statement Reconciliation for the City of , Andover, lér, Ward stated the question of the population figures is not a statement about \ the Systems Statement, which deals with the listing of the official policies of the Metro Council, The poPulation forecasts will be submitted November 17 as an amendment to the Systems Statementl, The question is whether or not you would agree to use these forecasts and what they mean and how they are done, The figures for Andover have been raised sub- stantially since r975, based on the analysis done in the last 8 or 9 months, ,~, Ward then explained how the forecasts were done, stating the current forecast is done , . for 191 cities including the number of households, populat~on, occupancy by household, and , are based on a study of regional economy and how it compares to the national economy, He felt the City should not be challenging the Systems Statement, but are challenging the numbers that are being recommended, 11r, Ward explained in the process of forecasting, the main thing you learn is that none of the forecasts are ever right, as they are based on a set of assumptions. In this particular study, the same person who did the 1975 studies -- " Regular City Council Heeting November 1, 1977 - Hinu tes Page 10 (Metropolitan Council - Systems Statement, Continued) ",orked on this. The forecasts for the national economy are significantly lower than they wcruld have been in 1975. which means this area is not going to grow nearly as much as was forecasted in the last study, Also, there is a tremendous housin~ demand that is here now because of the age distribution -- people in the household formulation years are at the right age now. The average age up until a few years ago was 45; now there are a lot of people from 20 to 35 when most people do their moving, when all children are born, when households are formed -- that's the cause of the housing boom in this area right now', He Btated he also found out that the previous indicators, based on existing available land, '\"Jer'e wrong. In the last forecasts, I~ore people moved into Anoka and West Hennepin Counties than w~s expected to. That is why Andover's numbers are substantially higher, Mr. 1V~rd then went over Andover's information as developed over the last three to four years, data going back to the'60's and all years since 1970, The estimation process estimates the voþulation in Andover on April 1, 1977, to be 8,670, The number difference between the City and Het Council was bec~use there was no communication between the two, Mr, ~ard noted the data used on occupied housing units is based on field surveys of existing activity based on market knowledge and on information collected by local utilities, The vacancy rate here has consistently been going down since 1970, The housing unit change averag~190 to 100 housin~ units added every ÿear since 1970, However, last year and this year the City is running well above that, Demands for housin~ in the entire re8'ion is up very high and as long as the market is there, that will continue, Mr, \'lard also stated that when the City of Anoka will be developed out within a few years and since we don't know what strength there will be in the development process when that happens, he proposed waiting until 1981 to redo the forecast for Andover, But he did agree there will be an influence. µ~, \'lard forecasted the City to have about 1,400 households this decade and about 900 next decade, Also, the number of persons per household has decreased, Of the people that are here today, the parents will stay and the children will leave, which means there will be the same number of dwelling units but the City will lose about 25 to 30 percent of th'e existing ]1opulation, In 1970, 50,4 percent of the population wæunder 18 years old, He'sl forecasted that the family size in Andover, currently 4,2, will be 4,1 in 1980 and 3,7 ~n 1990 and 2000 -- which is the slowest drop per household than any place in the region, He also forecasted there wouldn't be any apartments in the City of Andover, . I Discussion was o~ how Mr, \'lard arrived at the nopulation figure for 1977, µ~, Ward felt the building boom is over and Andover will be building less than 100 housing units per year in the next two years, ~~, Bruns - felt that housing would increase in Andover next year because of the economy increasing over the last several years, I~, Ward explained that this is the third year of , a national economical recovery, The economy didn't recover in the traditional way because savings and loans held onto their money, which delayed the buildin~ industry, He estimated interested rates are going to go above what the usary law permits; then building , moveS out ofst~t~ because people can't finance their homes, He admitted Andover may have more building since many people in the City build tleir ovm homes, ~~, Ward stated the reason Andover can't have their figures put into the Systems statement is because in any form of analysis ,I the people who have a local perspective are always involved in the process, and what they don't see is there is a strong regional influence of what they are doing, , If we were to take the sum total of requests of all cities, population figures would be It times that estimated for 1980, His population figures add up to the regional total also, A local situation\ always looks better than when you look at a regional perspective. Discussion was then on what action the Council wishes to take next to resolve this situation, Mr, Mazanec suggested the City contest the population figuroo at the November 17 ¡¡earin~ and enter into a stipulation agreement; a Hearing for the airport portion will be held on November 30; however, it is fairly certain this will be eliminated from our Systems State- ment. Or the City can proceed with the Reconciliation Hearing set for ~ovember 16, - --. -- " Pe/iular City Council )!eetin/i November 1, 1977 - Minutes Pa/ie 11 (Metropolitan Council - Systems Statement, Continued) ~r, ITard explained the population figures are an amendment to the Systems Statement and are channeled into one Hearing on November 17, which is a formal review procedure-going on concurrent with the Systems Statement, Councilperson Lachinski felt the City should stand on the population projected in our Comprehensive Sewer Plan, Mayor Windschitl felt we would get the best Hearing on the 17th, because at that time they will be addressing strictly population, Councilperson Lachinski also suggested putting the City's position in v~iting one more time to submit it for the record, !~OTImr by Orttel, Seconded by Lachinski, that the Council direct the City Clerk to draft a specification document for our projected population figures, presentation to the Hetropolitan Council Public Hearing on November 17, 1977, to be approved on the November 15 Council ~-!eetin~. Hotion c<1rried unanimously_ Discussion ~ms then on the fact that ~~. Mazanec needs something from the Council indicating that the City does not wish to continue with the November 16 Reconciliation Hearing, indicatir that beasically we are in agreement with it, Councilperson Lachinski felt the City should have a period of time to challenge the population figures after the 17th Hearing, rJx. Ward stated the question is over the population level in the rural area, If that is the reason for disagreeing, the Hetropolitan Council should review the population, He stated it is his function to forecast within the policies of the Metro Council, Current policy is not to develop past a very minimal level in rural areas, That is the issue between the 12,000 and 15,000 and that is what should be debated on the 17th, He stated the popu- lation figures have been reviewed since April 12, and this is the second formal review of these figures, He thought this has to be formally approved by the Metro Council by the end of the month so they can make official statements, I MOTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, to refer the matter to Mx, Hawkins, City Attorney, to review and comment on our legal status in this situation, I A!Œ!m!ŒNT TO MOTION by Windschitl, Seconded by Orttel, after !T, Hawkins has had a chance to review it, that he be given authority to obtain the legal format from the Metropolitan Council as far qs the stipulation agreement is concerned. Discussion: r~yor Windschitl was asking the Attorney to review and obtain the legal format to be voted on at the next meeting, Councilperson Lachinski asked if it appears that we are going to be needing to ~ to the meeting on the 16th, who is going to represent us, Mayor Windschitl suggested the Attorney, as it ¡is a legal matter, and the City Clerk, VOTE ON A~ŒNm-ŒNT: YES-' Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl; NO-VanderLaan, Amendment carried VOTE ON MOTION: \ YES-Lachinski, Orttel, Windschitl; NO-VanderLaan, Motion carried, Prairie Poad Update !{r, Stock\vell clhriUed the confusion on Prairie Road being a 9- or 7-ton roadway, He stated the urbani portion and beyond about 150 feet will be 9 tons, which is 4 inches of /iravel and 3 inches of bituminous, The remaining is designed for a 7 ton, which is 4 inches of gravel and 1+1 inches of bituminous, The reason it was done this way is based on the volume of average daily traffic and the percentage of 9-ton vehicles using the road; and he felt it didn't warrant the cost of the 9 ton at this time, If the road were 9 ton all the way through, I there was not enough funds in the City's account to put it in, He stated 9-ton vehicles would not be restricted based on the volume of traffic, He was aware that some time in thelfuture, when traffic warrants it and funds are available, it would be converted to a 9~ton road, This is also the way it was proposed to the Municipal State Aid Section of the Department of Transportation, He also told !1r, Holasek that he would not be restricted from using the road with his sod vehicles because the number of them is not that great, ---... Regular City Council Heeting 1\Tovember 1, 1977 - !'inutes Page 12 (Prairie Road Update, Continued) ~w, Stocbgell also informed the Council the State Aid specifications for a roadway does not allow for blacktopping after Iwvember 1 of any given year; therefore, we are in a position where we can't blacktop any more this year, They are graveling and will have thæ done this week. That will help out on the budget, '7, Stockwell then informed the Council we've experienced a large overrun on the earth work on the ro~dway, exceeding the bid by approximately $43,000 -- a substantial increase, At the present time, I~, Stockwell didn't know why this has happened, and he vd11 investi- ~ate this further, Because of this, the budget is running over, so we would still have had to postpone blacktopping the road until next year, He continued, he will be submitting a memo to the Council on this, and Dewey Kasma will be attending the next meeting to address this problem, There also has been a problem engineering wise on the budget, The bi~gest overrun and problem is that of res taking so many times because of vandalism, That will also be addressed at the next meeting. Engineering and field time right now is running 6,2 percent Of the project costs; they may get as high as 7 to 10 percent, !1ayor Windschitl expressed concern that this comeS to about a 30 percent cost overrun, and the Council should be made aware of these things sooner, IT, Stockwell explained they were aware there might be some problems, but he didn't know the magnitude of it until just the last two weeks# Discussion wm on the posting of weight limits on the 9-ton portion and the 7-ton portion of the road, I'~, Stocmvell stated it's not going to be posted 7 ton, it can carry 9-ton traffic which will not be restricted, I~, Holasek was concerned with the posting of weight limits in the spring of the year when he begins to use the road, He stated he was told at the Public Hearings that it would be a year-round road, a 9-ton road, ~~, Stockwell acknowledged there would be a problem in the spring with the weight restrictions, ~'~ext , - spring when we do blacktop, the City will have an additional $130,000 allocated, and a decision on whether to make the entire road 9 tons can be made then, I Gordon I~rdeen also recalled he was originally told the road would be strictly 9-ton, yea~ round. This will be put on the agenda at the next regularly scheduled Council meeting, Oak Rollow Prellminary Plat/Variance ~"rry Retzlaff, IChairman of the Planning and Zoning Commission, reviewed the P & Z's recommendation for approval of both the variance request and the Oak Hollow Preliminary Plat, The variance is for 158th Avenue under Ordinance 10, Section 17,01, topography of the land, By eitending 158th Avenue, you run into land that is owned by another property , ovmer, and hei~~t and drainage restrictions. ~ayor Windschitl expressed concern that the City is deviating from previous requirements of having streets extend so that some future road could tie into it -- trying to allow for maximum number of potential places for streets to come ;together, !.~, Stocm'lell was of the opinion that on developments¡ to discourage as much traffic as possible on as many streets as possible, He didn't feel that each streetl needed to continue from block to block to block because this encourages heavier traffic on svery street rather than isolating one street to carry the brunt of the , traffic, Every plat has to have a street that will extend into the next development, Hayor Windschitl[ also expressed concern that none of this is reflected in the P & Z's motion, Discussion continued on the time limit involved for this plat: that the P & Z I had to act on it; I~, Retzlaff stated he would accept the Council turning the Plat back to them for further review; ultimate approval need not be made this evening, but the item can be continuedluntil the next meeting; the P & Z has not seen the final Preliminary Plat with the fill areas indicated nor have they heard I~. Stockwell's opinion on the soil boring test, - -- ---... - ~egular City Council !1eeting Nover.1ber 1, 1977 - Hinutes Fa ge 13 (Oak Hollow PreliMinary Plat/Variance, Continued) MOTION by VanderLaan, Seconded by Windschitl, that the City Council direct the Planning and Zoning COMMission to again review the Oak Hollow Preliminary Plat, Discussion: Councilperson Vanderlaan requested the PreliMinary Plat deal with the need for the variance; SOMe widths of corner lots need to be addressed, and she requested the P & Z discuss this referencing definitions in Ordinance 8, aaa, definition ~n and Ordinance 10, the section which addresses corner lots. Hayor Windschitl requested a stateJ:1ent from the Engineer and wanted the P & Z to address the reasons for the variance, and also to clear up the contingencies, VOTB œ¡ !,¡OTION: YES-Lachinsk1, VanderLaan, Windschitl; PRESENT-Orttel l~otion carried. Finance COMMittee Mayor 17indschitl explained he was in attendance when the Finance COMmittee interviewed nro~"ootive auditors and felt all three would do an adequate job for the City, Olson, Thielen and Co, were the least expensive and gave the most feasible time, ~ION by Vanderlaan, Seconded by Lachinsk1, that the City Council approve the firM of Olson, Thielen and COMpany to perform the 1977 audit for the City of Andover, ¡·Iotion carried unanimously. :Po~_d Comni ttee Councilnerson Lachinski comMented that application for two CETA employees should be sub- Mitted as they are not going to hold applicants for us, Also, submitting the application does not cOMmitlthe City to hiring them, HOTIOr! by Lachinski, Seconded by'Orttel, that the City Council direct the Clerk to Make application for I two CETA eMployees for the special public worY$ project recommended by the Road Improvement Committee, Discussion: The Clerk noted the application is about 80 to 100 pages which [requires a lot of inforMation she does not have at this point, She had not checked into whether submitting an application COMMits the City in any way, Hs, VanderLaan felt the City Cduncil is not in a position right now to be making application for that particular situ~tion, Given the hour and that very little discussion tiMe is spent, she fel t the City is' very unwise in acting on this, !-Is, Lindquist also noted that !!r, Clough , is meeting with the State people tomorrow as far as funding is concerned, as there is so~e Question as to whether there can be any More than 10 percent reimbursement on State funds, !!r, Clough will ~hen be providing the Council with this information, Councilperson Lachinski stated' that that information would playa part in the cost justification, but the largest cost would be that of employees, and he felt we need to become More active in our þublic worv~ if we're going to do anything positive in shade tree disease, road and nark rnaintenancer etc. Hr, Holasek, Road IMprovement ComMittee Chairman, stated if the Council preferred to have the Meeting with I the Road COMmittee first to get More background on what they have planne4 that would be acceptable to hiM, Discussion continued on what information is required for the CETA application, Council peron VanderLaan felt nothing had changed since the last Council Meeting with respect to Meeting with the Road IMprovement Committee and to the CETA nrogram as well ~- that it is still a discussion situation restricted to the Road Improve- . . , ment ComMittee because of the amount of info~nation needed in order to fill out the CETA application and the fact that the expenditures cannot be Made from City funds until we organize ourselves with regard to which committees get how many dollars, Councilperson Lachinski CHArmED ImTION TO: contingent upon not obligating the City beyond no return. Second still stands, Discussion: Councilperson LachinsY~ was willing to work with the CIerI, through the Road Committee to give her as much information as possible in filling out the application, - -- Regular City Council Meeting Hovember 1, 1977 - !!inutes pgge 14 (Road Committee, Continued) Councilperson :r,..Clchinski CT!A'!GED !·¡OTIO!! TO: Direct the Clerk to prepare the application, Discussion continued on making the Clerk do work that cannot be completed until all facts are knovm or even whether or not the program will be instituted, Councilperson Lachinski again stated he wants to see an active public works program in this City so that we can ~tart addressing so~e of these problems. Council"ersom Orttel and Lachinski withdrew the Second and the Motion, )'OTION by Lachinslú, Seconded by Orttel, to set the date for a joint meeting with the Road Imnrovement Committee on r~vember 14 at 7:30 p,m" at the Andover City Hall, Discussion: After discussion on setting a date that everyone can attend and on what items should be discussed, Councilperon Orttel suggested the Committee compile a report for the Council listing the various alternatives and their costs. Mayor ITindschitl stated such a report would be very helpful to the Capital Improvements Committee as well, Councilperson LClchinski stated he will work with the City Clerk, through the Rodd Improvement committee, to prepare formal application for the Council's approval, and he will have all supporting information available for the regular meeting on the 15th, Councilpersons Orttel and Lnhinski withdrew the Second and the !!otion, Annrova1 of Claims MOTION by orttel, Seconded by Lachinski, to approve Check Numbers 190 through 195 from the !~AH añd 1977-1 Proje~ts for 5102,786,86 and Check '~mbers 1505 through 1522 from the General Fund in the amount of $31,848,49, Hotion carried unanir.1Ously. ¡·!OTION by Lachinski, Seconded by Orttel, to adjourn, Motion carried unanimously_ !'eeting adjourned at 1 :13 a,m, Pespectfully submitted, ,1)11 ~~~~L , ( ~ecording Secretary ',' ,:. ,. t L 1'; \'f o A' \I r?'~ ---- "-