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Home My WebLink AboutSH/SP October 27, 1976 CITY 01 ANDOVER COIITHITnm ASSESS'lliVI' !JEARE¡G/SPECIAL 'IEETING - '!INUTES October 27, 1976 The continued public assessment hearing \,as called to order by Hayor Schneider on October 27, 1976, 7:30 p.m. at Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstm\'J1 TIolùevard N. 1'1., A~oka, 1linnesota. Councilpersons present: IIolasek, Ri t}¡er, VanderLaan, 1Vindschi tl Councilpersons absent: None Also present: City Attorney, JoJm ßurke; City Engineer, D. R. Kasma; City Clerk, P. K. Linclq,uist; :md interested residents. (AnsHers to residents qucstions in parenthesis) Ci ty Engineer Kasma revie\,ed the project and costs, hm, these costs have changed and estimated assessments. IT. Burke explained that the condemnation trial has not been held as it Has nut off by the trial calendar and Hrs. Sonstebv' s Attornev is still in the hospital. TIlere " ' will not be a civil hcaring date again Imtil 1Jovemher so thcre is no way to have the matter heard by a jury before the deadlinc. Hr. Burke read the letter from !lr. Allen, Appraiser. Benefit derived frof,l the project \'lÍll be equal to i.f not greater than the assessed cost. ! , Cmmcilperson 'I'indschi tl questioned the phrase "in the area of .05 per square foot." in Hr. Allen's Iletter. 11r. Burke felt that this \;'as ]1rõ5ã5ly due to the fact that he did not have time to collect a large amount of comparables on the sale alld purchase of property in I the area before the report was made. Councilperson 1findschitl stated that he felt that lots that were not draining into the system or Here considered unhuildable at this time Hould not be assessed until such time as tl1eY could be built on. TIIC assessments could be deferred until that time. Engince~ Kasma explained that the interpretation of an unbuildable lot is \~lere ~le problem comes in. Just because the lots do not drain into the system today, they could be changed within the near future and ~ley would drain into the svstem then. He did not considcr them as bcincr unbuildable lots. Engineer Kasma rcviwed the ijvestigations Made of ~le lots in question. Public Input Portion JoIm LOfstrom,l3603 144th Avenue N. W. - 1','hat if the assessJ".ent .f(oes up to .07 or .03 per square toot. ¡hen It would be more than the benefit to the property. (If there ore "ddi,,=ol ~""" <hon Iho "'=d1 "ill 'mvo '" dedde ""o<he> In == boc' M,1 reassess the p nerty.) State Law is that you can't be assessed m¡y More ~lan your property value viII go UP. (This is generally accuratc and this is \dlY ~le Council had :m appraise go out ~lere to detemÍYle the incrcasc(~ v:llue.) If û'1c assesSMent amount goes up 0 .07 or .OS then Hill they say ~le value of the property has gone up that much? (TIl~t is not Hhat we are saying.) It is up to the City Comcil to judge whether the valle of our property has gone up that much? (Exactly, however, ~le Law is firm and can be used if there is a conflict hetween t;le ap'1nisÛ that the Ci tv COLtllcil rny pet .:Lîd tilC O:rlC t~la-:: t:1C property O~·,':l('r r.:ay ,0'3t.) . I Contim.lcJ Public I¡c~ring ! Tinutes - Page 2 October 27, 1~7G nosella Sonstehy, .n00 7th Avenue '10. - 1,,11Y wasn't ry appraiser 'fro Dixon inc1udeù \'Ihen vou were haVlnr; 11r. Allen Hnte vou a letter. r:eels it was verv unfair to reaù .. ,. .. a lettcr from !,'r. Allen ih'1Ù not from her ap:¡raiser, (1'le have not, by this letter, picked t1r. Allen to fight what your appraiser has said about your particular piece c£ property. t'r. Allen looked at the whole proncrty ane! rave opi'1ion about bene.fit to the 1hole property.) 11ill you please send ry Attorney a cOrY of the letter from l!r. Allen? (TIlese are all public documents, copies can be requested.) Would like to ask Engineer if they checked out hir-hest water level when the sewer was nlanned. (Yes) 1'ihat was it? (Don't have construction plans here but pipe was installed at adequate elevation to provide drainage to the lake.) Soil Scientist said high water mark is 20 inchcs from, top of ground and this is the reason why I camot build on these nar- ticular lots. Don't sec how the sewer can work in an area like this. (Explained by Engineer Kasma by sketch on boarù.) Gordon E. Willi=, 3629 143rd Avcnue N.l'I. - Alrcady discussed tny dilema. Would ask you to do \,hat lS nght. :'Jo water going into the system froM my nroperty. Don't want the water ,to leave my property. Do not intend to ¡mild on the back lot. I lave set ry house bacl~ on thc front lot, closer to thc other lot. Drain field is on the back lot, I could not sell it off \,iû~out regular seHer systcm coming in. (Eventually you will be receiving benefi t from the se\,er system.) I"- that is the concern here why not drmv up l,hatever papcrs necessary to havc it assessed at the time that happens. Think this would be a fair way of handling it. (Engincer Kasma explained that defer- J:1ents are usually put on the tax role on a year to year basis so they can bc evaluated each year, or :trrough any change of ownership. Feels the year to year hasis is the better way to ¡ÙlI1dle them.) Further discussion on road elevation and where his house is placed on the lot. /1r.' Burke pOintbd out that in making a decision like the City Council must in this casc, they should consider that deferments are the exception rather tha.'1 the rule. This is a neighborhood type project and everyone in thc neighborhood will eventually be benefitin~ {rom the project. Engineer Kasma gave some of tlle criteria for deter- mining defements as follows: creating a hardshin, where an irprovement comes into an area prematutely and adjoining property is forced into the improvement; if property is considered marginal for developrJent. Feels that if you put defement on'lr. 1'lilliams' lot there \,ill e others in that same area tJmt will wondcr Hhv their assessments were not deferred. ·ecls this would be setting a precedent ih'1d fro~ a hardnosed business standpoint feel you will be opening up a "can of worms" for tllis tyne of situation. Begin Verbatim ranscription- t!r. Williams, " 1rs. Sonstehy just pointed out to me that she does not mill all the other lots, som body else does." Kasrm, "fine. II j\'fr. ~~illiams, " 'xcuse me, but this is some pretty hardnosed talkinf'( you are do in!, here." KasM:l, "I grant you that." Williams, "Pret y hard nosed and its that same type of thin!'; that's caused the people in the community to say 'hey, whats ?,oing on hcre', tllat S<1mC apnroach." Kasma, "TIley asked for ry recommendation and I have to r-ive it. Thc City Council has Continued Public rre::¡ring 'tinutes - Pare 3 October 27, 1976 not been throuRh storm seHer assessment hearings before, this is the toughest hearings they are ever going to go throug!l. I told t.'1em that H'len they started a year ago and I am goinpc to say it until the dav I am out of nub 1 ic service, because I have passed 14 years of doing public hearings on storm SeHerS and there has never been an easy one. ~'Ie have ston~ sewers vary from .01 per square foot to .10 ner square foot derendi~g on tlle project ::¡rea drained and they have all stood up. The last one I did at Forest Lake where I hapren to live, and h:1Ve been through m:my years of development and tllat tyPe of thing, we had a .10 ]'Jer square foot assessment for storm drainage and the only reason we had it, was because the Council previous to that didn' t t~K:e ~'l area the Hay it was recommended, they left that little isolated are::¡ :md said these peo]'Jle don I t really need it yet and TIm vears later \,e really socked, it to them, for from .05 to .10 per square "-oot because they were there. So I have to give the Council my recommendations, whether they t~\e it not not is lID to them. I have got to look at this as the first of many nrojects. 1'1e have a stann sewer system hearing corong up in an area east of Crooked La.\e, that is coming up on November 10th. ¡ 1'!e have got one in the Green Acres area. We are not facing anything different. We are going to have the same tyPe of problems cominp: up tllCn. ~\rc p,-ot peti tions in from the people in Red oaks, Nort'J. ','!oods, and the area on the west side of Crooked Lake. 111Ís is the first of many projects they are goinpc to have and I will have to caution you because you will be setting some kind of precedent here i.f they do ma1:e a :dcfement. I:L"l not sflying they, I'm not telling them, that's not my business, my business is strictly to recommend, but I'M just pointinp: out that \1e're just getting started in the storm sewer business and we've p,ot a long way to go, ma.'lY years, an,] we're going to have these same kind of problems I'm sure and the reason we do is because the land as developed out here was not done with an overall plan as we have] now. ^ new plat cOMing in' today won't 'lave this type o.f problem. 1'!e check every plat as it comes in to make sure the drainage is there, if drainage is needed tlle ~veloper puts it in, ' people knm, what tlley are gettipg when they're buying, but that doesn't solve the problel1'5 tllat we are faced with n01,." Schneider, ""Ir.\ Attorney, could I ask you, could vou give us any lipht in regards to deferrinf' the assessMents." Burke, ,,; L'OUldllike to add a few comments, althouph I think Dmvey has, as the gentleman has linted out, given a pretty frank answer to the questions and !le lIas given 1,hat I thin1( is a very accurate statement. TIle Council in making the decisions, first of all, has to ealize as the audience must, that the Council has full discretion in tllis area, to , ke its decision, its \~lat they've been elected to do, and sometimes its a hard job, but they have the discretion to make the decision. TIle criteria for deferring asses ments is as Dewey has pointed out, ¡oenerally considered to be the exception by fa rather than the rule and deferments are justified at the time and they have been used t times as he has ]'Jointed out, where a system is to service a particular lot, say there' assessments, or a p,ood exwnr>le mav be a tTU!LK:, but this particular lot doesn't hav a lateral that it can even use the trunk at the present time, talking in a di ferant format than storm sewer, and tllere it has been held in cases and decisions 0 the Council tllat they May defer in that situation 1U1til the incli vidual lot s serviced by a lateral to a trunk. On certain parcels of land that are comple ely undevelopable at a particular stage, there mav be a deferment that is justifi' d, but as he pointed out, as the F~gineer pointed out, and as I think maybe we better just reflect for a minute, and as 'fro Allen has minted out, assessing a storm sewer project is '1 neirhhorhoocl tyne o.f project, its a neiphborhood I I , Continued Public I~aring '!inutes - Pare. 4 Octobcr 27, 197ó typc of bcncfi t, its \ind of the c1w,in link theory, You hrrve to have rr Full corrnection betHeen rrll t~le indiviùual links to Ma~æ the ch:1Ín Hark, and carvin~ out exce..,tiorrs is rr ùi .clêicul t: job em,] it is the crrse where there is a c1efini te identi Hable '\ardshin for a particular lot as opposcd to all the other lots in that neighborhood, in thrrt ¡>Touring and I,thinI~ the comments Here well taken, that is, iF you are seriously considering the deferment on one particular lot, then I think you should scriously consitlcr the impact tI:Jon those other lots in that r;roupin.n: ~n~1l.J~1~t11r.;r nY not t:l~r2 ~lTC ot;1cr lots ;t1n_t at t:l? I1Tcsent tine do not ~ain bcncf"it, rip,11t nOH, by the stam seh'er. But, ,Ùen you assess costs arainst a neip;11horhood nroject stich as this you are also assessing these costs because there will he a .cuture benefit. Even if there is no benefit at the present tine you're justified in assessing these costs brrsed lmon a future henefit and I think we all understood throuçh COr:1J'1ents of the . L' Engincer and COmMents of '1r. Allen and even COJ11J'1ents of the peo;1le living in this area that if ùevelonncnt comcs, cte" tlcre is definitely r.oin~ to bc J .cuture hcnefit to all :thcsc lots, from this storm sewer, even if the statemcnt can be rrnde for a particular lot that there is no J1resent benefit. You are starting to compare the lots very specifically when you start to do this and I think it would take a very serious considcration of other lots that may be similarly situated." Sdmeidcr, "JeJry" ¡"lirrùschitl, ,ry!J. 'hyor, I ?Uess we're, I think we're rnxing up two things here. TIle only lot that I think we're dealing with is one that is not draininr into the system n01,. 11Ù~ only thing that'll m;ùæ it drain into the system is if we cut a rorrù down, so tl1cre's ~Ulother asseSSMcnt that's p;oing to have to be paid hefore there's :my benefit that crrn be derived out of the thing. The remaining lots tl", Dew,y i, r onin, '0. tlæy do d"in in" tho "",,~ nm.." Kasro, "Right" 'Ündschitl, "111 re is a bcnefit that is imMediate to it." Kasr11., "The anI problem is they c:m' t build on the!'] until they .fill both lots, or pulJlic sC\ver comes in, they can't p;et a Buildinp; Permit, so they c:m argue that they don't have immcdiate benefit either because we can't use the dam thing." l'!indschi tl, "Do we ]:now that for a fact, that we can't give Building Permits on then?" Kasr.1a, "111at I s he way they are recorded." Windschi tl, "We had this come up at, at when, the public hcaring \,as and I believe somcbody testif ed that if the storm se\,er went in some of these lots were in fact buildable. " Kasma, "I don't know (illegible)" Ri ther, 111\~10 tc ti fied to that?" Winds chi tl, "I on't ):nm, who did and I'm not saying all (illegible)" i , I Continued Public !!carin?, llinutcs - Par.e,S October 27, 1976 :Æ~¿'t.d. Kasma, "TIÜs doesn't changc the r.rolDlò water at all, Jerrv, because its a ~ pipc so if its!?,round watcr that's a problcm before, its still a problem." Windschitl, "I, understand tha.t, but \{Cren't there sone of these lots that had a Hater problem on them?" Kasma, ",Just g~und Hater problem, no surface Hater problem. Its like Rosella said, its 20 inches beloH the ground before the Hater nroblem. Those lots have been denied building permits. We've been informed to stop peop~e fron building on those lots." lI'indschitl, "I guess I just can't see how we could have sat here at an asseSSJ11cnt hearinz and tell SOl'leOne that you knOH thcir pronerty doesn't drain into the system, they wouldn't be assessed aJ1d now we turn around and we're saying now sOMetime five to ten years fro!'! nOh', whcncver the SCh'er and roads comc in there you will get bencfit. !!owever, we will asscss you now. TIla t 's whcrc I'm hw1r' tIT) on the thin {' . ,.. . " I just don't think its right." I !!olasek, "Are lOu through Jerry?" ~nnLlschi tl, "Yes" !!olasek, "Two Jüngs, first that what you said about the, you know, that the assess- ment hearing, I pardon me, not the assessment hearing, thc pro,iect hearing, was it vour understanding that if vou weren't beneH ted by it it would'1' t be assessed. 'fine was that oI.JtŠidc of that line, anythin,g inside of that line even though it didn't particulhrly drain, youknO\" if it \,as inside the hcnefited area it would be assesscd. '!flat was my underst:mding at the hearing. TIle other thing, that I'm trying to get qari fied here is something that '!r. Burke mentioned here about thc chÜn link or neighborhood effcct, and are you saying that the mere fact that even though Hr. Willtams' water doesn't drain, you 1mO\" physicallv into the systen, the fact that t lCrc isn't water sta.'1ding dO\I11 therc Hi th a condemneLl sewer systeM next to hin in his housing developmcnt raises the saleability o.f thc lots of one area or therefo e, you knO\v, I don't knOH \Òat you should say, upgrades t1-te neir:hborhooù?" Burke, "Yah, I saying that exactly and I gucss I was try in!, to rciterate really Hhat ¡fro Allen aid, All, from the sta.r¡d"oint that a ncighborhood Hith this system, the individuals are being benefited because if he Ha.'1ted to sell his lot say, for example, if we ad the conditions existing in the nast like He did, the problems of standing \vat,r, etc., well that is going to have a negative effect upon the mar]œt value anf the fact that nm, the aTCa is bein,g drained and He don't have those particula problems, it does benefi t his particular pronerty." !!olasck, "TIlat was my interpretation, I just wanted to be sure that I had it right." ''111i_. "JŒt m_" ,b,"' <hi,. yo" ,~"" yoo eo< Co rem."'''' ""'. you 1m.., its been CO!1!'1cn el1 by your laHycr that the Hhole COJ'lffiuni ty, vou kn01" its a community project or SOJ'1C hin¡; like that, the whole co:munitv is henefitinr~ hy it, but you ,{'ot to recognize yo 've already wiped out a bLtlC11 of thcP.1 today. AT)¡1arently they're not benefi tinf': by it or somethin¡; like that and they're still in the COTTll'1U!li ty. \','e're talking about a;very small area} we're talking :tbout somethin? that has a lake on one side and its h'ithin, what, two blocks or two ane! a half blocks, a MaJcil'lUm area Continued Public Hcaring 'Iinutes - Pa~e Ó October 27, 1976 to the lake and yet we're only, we're sayin,!! its not by the asscss",ent the way its going right n011 :lll~1aY, you are s:lying, 011, apparcntly L~ese people on this side of the road are not part of the COMmunity but you people right Ilere are, so charge em, so, you know, I guess "e're arguing hack :llld forth on something we got a lot of schcmatics here thrmill into and so on. I guess you all on the Council recognize ~lis, that is, you know, its not all hard socks, not at all." Erld TIlÍs Section 0 ¡- Verhatim - Lee nordstroM, ; 3737 l43rd Avenue JU'I. - Was dissatis fied wi th ~1e \,ay the meeting went last tlMe :llld I stated my OplJ110nS and no real estate annraiscr caJ11e un to my place and evaluated my property. Showed on man where he lines. Mlat the Ðwinccr and Attorney have been saying tonivht reminds him of' bank robber "ho makcs a' withdrm,al \vithout sufficient funds to cover it planning of course, to Jay it hack some date in the futurc, whidl ncver does come. Nccd to set a time limit on ~1Ís thin,g. HON far into future arc you going. (Depends what the peonle in the neighborhood want, if they come in with petition another public hearing would be held.) Had a petition a,gainst the storm sewer and yet it was pushed dO\'1I1 our throats. (Had no alternative hecause of the red tagp,ed lots th:lt were a public health hazard.) Feels ·fr. Willia~ should not be assessed for his property as it is not draining into thc system. '''''0"" s®""t re"d ,~,,.,, fmm ,- boon' ree<ino mi",,'''' Laura Anderson - I am a licensed Real Estate person, I Lhink the City f;ngineer and the Clty Attorney are right, all of' the pronerty in that area \vill he worth more when appraisal ìs made out. 'frS. ¡'.'ayne Walblòrg, Vintage Street - Lives on the opposite side of the drain, I guess HC jlaven t rea Y been ,or t Ie project, but were goinp: to f'O ahead and pav the hill. Now we are obje ting to the quick increase in t'le amount o.f t'lC assessClent. Hish they h'Ould have done the settlenent before they nut in storm se\':cr. Engineer Kasma eviewe,] the project costs and hm, they h:lve increased. )OTIŒ¡ by Rithe , Seconùed by VanderLaan, to close t!le nublic hearing to the public. c..~rrlc(.! l111Tlir":Qqsly. Begin Verb::¡tim Igain - lvindsdli t1 , "1Ir. 'fayor, I would like to make a motion ~lat would defer the asseSSMent on ~~r. 1\Tilli<lY.\s second lot on a vear to year b::¡sis as the lot does not benefit .from the storm scwer under t;le existing CŒlstruction, as noint one, the sec0nd point 1;OUIe] l)c t11at t'lC anI: tine t',at tl12 lot ',:oul,l bene fi tCro!" the starn se\,'er would he when the road 1\'oulcl e constructe,], so my ration for a lkfement on ::¡ year to ye:lr basis 1£1 ti 1 such time as the lot would hc henefited from the stom se\1er project." Schneider, "Are you saying thcn, that the rest of thc asseSSf'ent role stæ1c1s." Winclschi tl, "Tile t HaS on Lot 2 of 'fro 1'!illiams'" Continued Public Hearing '!inutes - Page 7 October 27, 1076 Schneider, "¡row about the rest of the assessment role, were on this one (illegible)" 1'!inds l'lindschi tl, "T'm just dc::!l inf \'lith this speci f-ïc i ten. tI SC:meider, "I' 11 Second the Motion to get the thing under discussion." VanderLaan, "~'!r. )byor could I ask the Clerk to reneat the two reas()ns." 1'lebster, "To defer the asseSSPlcnt on the second lot on the b::lsis that he docs not benefit from the storm sewer at this tine and that he would benefit only when the road was constructed." IIolasek, ")!r. 'hyor, I have a question on that, seeing as that lot is one pClrcel there, ¡:¡ayba :!r. Burke can answer this one, how would you £':0 about 'that 1vithout having the [;J1gineer draw some lines on it because we ca.'l' t define it hy saving its parcel No. so and so,hecause as I look at the little sheet I've got here, hoth lots are one parcel." Burke, "TIlat presents a prohlem, a practical prohlem." Kasma, "1'le C:U1 Ijust divide the assessment in t\,!o. You can have this parcel No, 1O, Part A and Part B." Holasek, "You JOUld have to draw a (illegible)" Kasm, "Total *sessment \vould be still the S3!le total hut half \ÿould p,o on, half would be deferTd and half would go on assessments." IIolasek, '''Iy question, Dewey, h01, would you establish that line and what Part A and Part B would hel, they wouldn't have to he equal rarts." Kasm, '~,rc cou~d say the north hal f æ~1d the south hal.f of the lot." IIolasek, "You ,ould say equal parts?" Kasrla, "111at 10 ks like the logical thing, it \,ould probably be split in Ijalf, then we could write description, the north hal.f of that lot would be deferred, the south hal f waul he assessed." ~-' lIolasek, ":!r. B rke, would thaq~ would that resolve that." , il/">" Burke, "Yah, I was looking at the dues(?), its just a practical problePl of !mw to do it and the nort half and south half is actuallv a ga()d remùy f"or the prohlem, for things like the structure is on the, is on one half, that would he I t1nt w()uld be an ()rderlv wav of oing it. I think a Resolution ()f defement should cmsicler a cotir)le of thÚ¡gs,' just by wav of what the Lm, says and one, is that we should J'la.1.::e it until a designated fu ure year and I know that as a T)ractical matter, DeHev has explained that they do be ome reviewable, but I guess f()r purposes o.f the Resoltuion you would want to have th )btion dcsignate a particular future year and I Pli~lt point out that interest aCcrUeS during the period of deferment a.'ld Play be paid either annually during the period of deferment or T)aid during the period when t!1e assess~ent becoMes n~lVahle. I night point out, if there is a Pcsolution de.ferrinrr assessT'lCnts, the Council may not require interest for the years durin,,,, which the assessmcnt is cleferred t'1rouf'7¡ , I Cü:1tinued Puhlic !Iearing 'linutes - Page 3 October 27, 1~76 DeceMber 31st of the year before the first installr:ent is due, so the interest is goinf' to be accruin,!! but there can't 11e a requirement of pa~ent .for the years during \-Ihich the assessment is deferred, throuf'h Dccel'LIJer 31st of' the year he fore the first installnent is dtæ, and as De\,ey pointed out, deferred assessment are liens (illegible) on the ;¡roncry.," I'!indschi tl, "So that would be 1Jovember and December o.f this Year, is where there \-Iould IJe no interest entered." Lindquist, "I have a question for 'fro Burke (ille¡>:ihle) when yon figure interest is (illegible) that interest on the assess~ent as a (10\\'11 (ille['ible) for this (lefement as we did for senior citizens?" Burke, "I believe that 's, that's correct (illegible) thats my m(lerstanding." Lindquist, "(illegible)" '\ , , , ~ ~'!indschitl, '''';: '!otion should be corrected then to say the nortll one-half of' "i' 'fro Williams' property. Dewey H:15 sugr,esting year by year so that's what I put in \~ t' " I J my me lOn. Ii Burke, "But, the' btion should say UJltil a dcsimated future year, such as acted on . " Me! at that tir1e would be (illegible)" , , '~~i( l'!índschitl, "011' you Mean deferred." Burke, "A revie ,al date." r\;; \j leind'chiU, ,"01 o!my, <hO" 0 yc." hy YCOY ",rem~', ",," ",,' ,hould be c,,~,od " ' , ~ ' , this date next ear, Nover:ber 1, 1977, is this what vou're saying? So then it would , \;' be rcvie\ved on hat elate?" ..... \ Kastla (Illegibl ) Burke, "You ca.1. make it October 1, its just a better elate." ]'Iindschi tl, "Ch nge, froM year to vear to October 1, 1977." Schneider, "1!y econd (illegible)" Burke, "TIle ath r consideration Hill be Hhether you want the s:'lle of' the pronerty or transfer of he property to tri['¡>:er the TJa~ent or to cease the deferment." 1'!indchitl, "In his case I'd aSSUJ'1e the property isn't f'oing to change the circuMstances regardless \,ho 1I'I1S it, the saJ'1e COn(1i tions Houle! exis t. In J'1V J'1otion I Hould not ]Tefer that to be in." Continued Public Hearing Hinutes - Page 9 October 27, 1976 IIolasek, "'!r, 1 'ayor , I would thin]; t!nt if they are going to defer it that tJ:¡:¡-t shouln be in there because, \'lell, none 0 f us knONS ,bat the futare holds, youknm" due to circumstances beyond ~!r. Williams' someone could 01ill that land next MOnth or next vear and they could go ahead and change that lot, build on it :md everyt'ling else rU1<1 still not be assessed ¡mtil the end of the year. I don't know then what to require in it either. (illegible)" Sclmeider, "They have to pay the interest on it so it doesn't make mlV di fference." lIolasek, "1,,'hat would happen at that T>oint then, wouln he just start picking lm the assess- !'1ents like everybody else? or wauld he have to nav it in full?" Burke, "No, no; at the time a deferred assessment hecomcs nayable, its dividen into a number o.f installments such that the last installment \\'Ould he pavahle at a tíJ:1e detcn'linen hy the C:mmcil but not less than 30 years after the levied assessment so I think \,e're (illegihle) Hi th 1" S'1ent ',ere so you \,'ould spread it out arain. In other words.. (illegible)" , I IIolasek, "In other words, it \,'Ould he divided like in '1 years instead oj" 10 years." Burke, "Yah, i1 would be s'1read out a¡rain." IIolasek, "TIlat's what I war1ted to get clear." ScJmeider, "An1 more discussion on the motion?" Rither, "~!r. 'Javor, I would just like to make a comment, a brief one I ¡ruess, I understand the ~roblem here a¡1d I think we've gone over this quite thoroughly, and its, again you ome to tJIC point where you examine the situation in light of the location, the i dividual involved and staff recommendations, advice of our consul- ta¡1ts and so on, and I guess the very real thin['s that attend this defeITICnt, while it \'lOuld appear to have Merit, I feel that I could not sunnort it in that based on the apTJraiser's letter, \,,'hich indicates to us that wi thin this desigmlted arca therc is in fact a be efit, the benefit is described in the engineering report that sub- st:mtiates the enefi t, the hardship which the Attorney has spoken to, I, does not appear to be ab erva ble hardship described by the Attorney in that, there does not annear to be an exception here, 3.'ld last the J'1Ost serious one 0 f all I think, is the nrecedent whicJl impacts, or could impact the other lots of a certain nature in t'1at area. I think hose are the things Nhich TJrevcnt me from slmnorting the exccption in this deferme t." IIolasek, "Mr. '!ayor, I'm a little concerned about the prece,leat t'lis 1'!ill set as far "' <he MhM '0r ,od ¡ ,;üul,¡ lil10 " ,," "c. "ncko. ",," 01h" 1M', nrn, De"" has pointed out even thOU":l they arc not huiLlable because of high \\atcl{ tahle they still are drain ng into the systen, the surface ¡':ater, t'1erefore t'1e svst'èn is bencrit- in" t'1.'lt lot ,Ii 8Ctl'l 'Úcreas t'lis lot it annears thGt due to t,'le fGct theTC is no su~faC8 Hater draini~g off there its not beÍ1efitin[' surface water draining, I'Pl not saying, I'M not going to say its not goinf. to hene "i t th<3 lot "rom the ot'1er reasons state,] hut its at henefiting ;my surface water drainage at the nresent ti8e. PauId that, lmulù those lots bc considered in t~lC sai'lC c:1tcf,ory, co:ll:_: flCSC 0'./::181'5 cone l' , .. 1 . l' 1° -fr " 1::tC-: .:-uL: us~ t'HS at rrs [1.~ arf,ur;1.cnt, S:1Yln~, or arc t-1C ClrC1.t!"stæ1ccS '- I' crcnt. I ! Continueù Public rrearin!; '!inutes - Page 10 October 27, 1076 BuÙe, "T11e :U1ser to the first '1uestion, Yes, they could use this as on ar!;UJ'1ent. TIlere is a hasic thrust here obviously, that \-:e're tryinrr to tre'lt neo"le e'1ually. "'e're not trying to C'lrve out exccntions and take advan.ta¡>e of" :m.yone here. T11ese are touph decisions hut the vacant lots you s]leak 0+ that arc heing benefited hecause of, there is a .Jirect runofi" XIÙ t'¡ere is benefit there, that is ,Ii.("f"er,:mt .("ro!'1 the lot we are talking about h'here there is no nmoff", but I think it, well, the appraisers usually are in (illegible), I think we've :111 talked about the henefit to both. T 'n saying, yah, they can use that as an ar,f'U!'1ent if vou're !"oinp to carve out one to say they should be excepted, as well, they are di.fferent hut t!1Cy're both being henefited to a certain extent." JIolasek, "One thing that concerns me here about the chain link fence that I '1uestioned you on earlier and then it h'as pointeò out by "r. 1'.'illi:lfiS that neon Ie outsicle, even though they nirrht be just :lcross the street from the project benefited arN, :m,1 yet being there isn't w:lter, I refer to lots just outside this line, they would also benefi t from the fact th:lt there i5n' t water 5tandin." in the area, in the streets anù so on, and they are not heing assessed so I have a little hard tine mysel.f trying to justify saying; I can see ho1'1 it does henefit the whole area, hut I have a hard time justif"yin¡,; saying well, \'IC're gonn.'! figure that that's part of the assessMent, then for these people inside the line are "art 0+ tile assessMent .for people, vou know, people outside :the line aren't assessed for this, and thev're receiving it also. So I have a li ttlJ trouhle there." Burke, "'¡his is where you can't (illegible) view that this type of decision has exact answers to be given to you at an exact time, and I guess you have to rely upon your best judgmÛnt here, hut what I think ~fr, Allen tried to do was focus unon this immediate neiphborhood, now sure, there has to be a line someh'here and in our project there is indeed! a line and then we can look to the lot irmncdiatelv outside that line and the lot next to that and the lot next to that a'ld there comes a noint where it boo"'" JOb" COOf <bo oOi,h"o,hood beoor" (iIlogiblo)" Holasek, "You'r talking or a lar!;e distance, but we're tal1dn." onlv less than h,l1r a block." Burke, "You'll probahly end lID trvinf' to drœv a line SO!'1eh'llere like I say, it keeps 1 .. , . r,oing out and out and you have to make the decision." !!olasek, "I gue s all things aside like you're nointinp out its not a clear cut picture and, so you can !'lake a clear cut decision on it, but a decision l¡as to be made arId I \,ould like to e , ress my f"eelin¡,s on it, I do f'ed that he is inside the henefi ted area, therefore he should 'nt ?et of.f wi thout arl assess!:',ent, however, I think that the just \{ay to do t would he to defer on that portion or the lot until snch tiJ'le as, T think it covers all situations in .Jerrv's J'lOtion as su,,:!!ested by the Attorney, so T .fecI the sitmt Œ1 is ,Ii '("f'erent than these ot'lCr lots, and I ,10 fecI that that one, hal f that one 1 t should be deferred until such time as it was eit.her transferred or built on, WÌÚC11 is pretty well covered -in the notion." Sclmeider, "ÞJlY MOre discussion on this 'lotion. If there isn't, the Clerk will noll the Council." ]\'ehster, "Dick" - SCÌmeider, ''Yes'' I , Continued Public IIe:lring 'linutes - Pa~e 11 October 27, 1976 1\,Tebster, "Winslow" - lIol<lsck, "Yes" Webster, "SkiD" - 1li ther, ";.)0" l~ebster, "Hary',' - VanderLaan, ";'10" Webster, "Jerry" - Hindschitl, "Yes" Winclschitl, ""r. 'hyor, I \Vould like the record to sho'" th;lt dc.ferrinf'; = ;lsseSSTT1cnt is, does not in the end cost the City any ooney, ;lS the interest is accrued during the time that the assessment is deferred." Schneider, '''lotion is carriec] 3 to 2. The Chair is open -For ;l M:Jtion \"hat you \Vailt to do lVith the rest o-F the assessment roll." I V:lIlclerLa;l;'1, "'Ii. 1!ayor, one question to the AttOTI1ey now. Ihs this J'1ost recent action that \Vas just concluded by the City Council, does this in :my W;lV jeOTJardize our C:lse in court. I Are \\'e treading on so~e very (illegible) is this something you would rather not sneak of." Burke, "TIle acJ of deferment?" I VanderLaan, "Yes" Burke, "Has no rJearing whatsoever," Schneider, "Ch:ùr is o,.,en for ;l fotion on what you W;l;'1t to do on the rest of the assessnent rolll." Holasek, "'lr.H'1~Or, as you will notice on the agenda, the Clerk has attached a sarmle Resolutipn which should he reac]. I don't 1cnm" I should Plake a motion that the Council ado t the Resolution but ny voice isn' t <'00'] enoufh to read it, navbe 1'/e could helve ei th r the Clerk or R.ecording Secretary read it." Sdmeider, "I' 1 read it." IIohsek, "'!Clybe I should , should I, lei';ll question here, should s01"ebodv re;lc! that and then J:1ake e notion to :1do'1t it or should the ~btion he M:1de to ;ldont the follmvin¡; resolttion and then 1nve t'1e Cler1; re:1d it." Bur]:e, "TIle l;lt er." I!olasek, "Okay, I 1'/ould move that the (ch:mred ta!1e) there are ccrtain figures t'lat ,dll have o he filled in that second page, I'J'l not sure \,hat they ;lre. I clrm't 1::1011' how that', tiorr to defer t11Í.s one parcel imPacts th;lt, does that have to be in the Resolutiorr t all 7" Burke, "TIle def ment?" IIolasck, "Yes" Continued Puhlic Hearing 'tinutes - Page 12 Octoher 27,1976 Burke, "Yes, and t~at has been properly taken care o.f by the 'btion, you don't need to reinclude that at t~is time." IIolasek, "1'.'e don't have to, okay." Rither, "But, it does becOJ'1e a Dart of' that (illef'ible)" BurIzc, "Yes." Sc1meider, "Defore we have any more discussion I need a Seconù to the Hotion." "Yes Pat" Lindquist, "There is one correction on the sample Resolution (illegible) should be 7.25 rather than 7.00 (illegible)" Rithcr, "7.25?" , IIolasek, "how about those figures on the seconù page there, do those have to be in there?" I Linùquist, "No, He don't have to (illegihle)" I Burke, "That goes to the question 0 F \Óether tile costs are going to he assessed by the project or Ito the City as a whole." Schneider, "If :there's no Second to the 'btion." VanderLaan, "'I . 'layor Mi"ht I COmJ:1Cnt before a Second, I think this has Dlaccd, at least mysel in a verv serious dilema hecause I do not support the deferment tha t Has acted n at this moment, a fe\, moments a¡:o, hO\,ever, I do support tl-te ado~tion of ~le assessment roll, does the Attorney have a possible solution to that because this is something we don't, at least my position is we don't want t.'Jis on the tIle general tax roll as it shall be assessed, hOHever, it has teen altered, is there a situation herr that (iller,ible" Burke, "1'!ell, at a practical r:1atter, I guess we got the cart before the horse because \ve deferred som thin¡: that has not heen levied so, we nrst have to face up to whether or not '1ere is goiJl¡: to be a levy against the properties and then if there is a levy again t general pronerty then there has to be a decision Hhetl-ter or n0t it can be deferred In other words, we deferred s01'1ethinl' that technically Jnsn' t heen levied yet so, the first deferment ootion ohviouslv was made \l0on an ass11I'1[J- tion that there \,'()uld he a levy here toni¡:'1t. I think vou should now .face ¡m to what you're doing, t at is, shall there be a levy to pay For' this, to be levied ar,ainst parcels in this narticular ?roject or is itgoin¡: to be levied af'ainst the Citv as a \.;hole or is it ,oinr. to be p:1rti::ll bCD'loci! tl18 th'O, this is the decision." Continucd Public Hearin[': 'linutes - Pa[':e 13 October 27, 1976 Holasek, ":!aybc I'1'1 a little con Fursc'] ~,ere, I thouf'h that '!otion thClt ,Terrv naJe, th:lt second CJart, th:lt hot!, these ',Clcl to be in t',ere, have yml "at Cl CO':1y o~ t:Üs?" Eur;~c, "Ves" LDhs,c;;, "'[1,C $ccon,] p:¡rt shoulchl't ne in there, rÍ!:"ht? The advaloTUJ'l part." Bur!:e, "P.irht,even if there's a decision, the deferment does not cause the reneral :1d valorum tax to pay for it, that, its just si~ly deferred (illef'ible)" Holasek, "It ¡,auld corle out of th:lt until its paid, but it !Voul,]'nt he such as stated llcrc." Durkc, "Ycs, t:1C City hD5 to Dcet its o~)li¿:atioa to D1Y or!"" t>:: 7'Jfnjcct costs," Jf01.....s·.....1~ tiT 1\T'1S~1' t :1>.r'lyr> or tTl'1t I t'lou[':ht bcc1use 0 F ,10 Fep"cnt ],ot'1 of t',oSe 1. ,~. .~, _, . ...; , ", ,._ '--' ", par:1sra;1'1s h:1cl ;to stay in hut the seconl one should COJ:1e out." VanJcrLaa."1, "~fr. "hyor, I \vill Second the ~ lot ion. " I Sc!l.'1eidcr, ":lotion !Vas made and Seconded that \\'0 sdont the P.esolution Adoptinr tho i\ssessncnt for StOITI SCHer IfC)rOvement Project 1975-2 in t!le City a" i\ndover." Pcsolution rcad by 'hyor Sdmcider, (CO':1y attached). I Sdmcidcr, "You have hcard t11e "lotion and t',e resolution, a.'1y more discussio:1." ~ithcr, ''Yes, a\ l)rie~ conJ1cat I ','Quld like to have a'1pcarinr: in the recorJ, nClrallel to the fact that it !Von't, the defement doesn't accrue anv costs to the Citv, \v1lat the Council haSfdone is that it deferrcl sOl'1Cthinr that, a levy ¡ÙiÒ ha<1 not been levied and I th nk that's sufficient coment." Schnei<1er, "If fhere is no further COI'1!",ent on thc "otion or t'1e Resolution, the Clcrk will poll the Council." ~\rcbstcr, It,Terry" - '1Jinclschi tl, "Yes" 1\'ebster, I ~ faryl' - VanderLaan, ''Yes'' Webster, "Skip" - Rither, "Yes" Webster, "Winsl ¡I' - Holasek - "Yes" ì\rebster, "Dick" - Sc1meider, "Yeslt Schneider , "The ,esolution is passed unanimous." Schneider, "I Jess thats., the Chair is opcn for a ''otion to close the public hearing." VanderLaan, "'Ir :1ayor. . " Nindschitl, "'fr. ~1avor, the Attorney feels t!Vlt the "otion shoul,l he restated a Her this )btion here. 11 e one I'r¡, the motion on the dc.fement of "r. l':ill iams' CJrorerty should follo',,! t1 is notion." I Continued Public Irearinz ~,!inutes - rage 14 October 27, 1~76 S J ·1 "0" 1 d " cmCICcr, .l,-ny, .101'1 0.. Burke, "TIle deferment 'btion should be, lets SCly, voted upon arain." Schneider, "TIlcn it will be after the .fact no\'!, i.f we vote on it now." Burke, IRj~ht.Tt Schneider, "You heard the ~btion and the Second before and so 1Ve will vote on it again nO\v. The chair will poll.. TIle Clerk will noll the Council." Windschit1, "Rewrite that ~Iotion after this.." Schneider, "If. there is no discussion on it the Clerk will 11011 the r.Olmcil." Rither, "'fayor, comment, I want to be sure my SaJ'le comnents are recorded the second time as ¡.¡ell as the first time." Schneider, "You can poll the Cot1I1cil." I l"ebster, "Dick'1 - Sc1meidcr, ''Yes'' Wc1)ster, 'Ninslow" - IIolasck - "Yes" hTebstcr, "Skiprí - Rithcr, I'NO" 1\'ebstcr, IT;'farvj - VanùcrL:larl, 11~,¡O" l',Tehstcr, ''<Jer , I - Winds chi tl, "~~olt Sclmei"". '"I1ml vo," is Vm s~c. "m e'* is 00," 'm " m<i 00 to close the ",',lie hearinp,. If Reither, "So 1'10 eel", Seconlled bv lIolasek. C:lrried una¡1.Ímouslv. End of verbatiml Portion o.f Tape - rIayor ScJmeider called the Snecial City Council "eetinr to Order at lfl:Wl n.J'1. mTI011 by ~~inds hitl to a11nrove the a¡:;end:l, Seconded by !lolase1(, C!lrried unaniJ'1Ouslv. Bloonquis t Vari., ce Re?orts on this v:lriancc have been received by the City Council. 'DTIm by !IoTas k, Seconded bv Sc'meider, that the Citv ['rant t11e variance to .TO'111 Dloorr¡uist, Inc , for the reasons stated in the P (, Z recor'lr'enclation of October 14, 1'176, refer to o!1I1Íssion ,10. '17(,-6 and also the letter received tonif"1t froM the City Attorney, ~r. IL:l1,:kins, statinr that in this opinio7l this lot, ,\'!ÜÒ \,:15 a legal size at the tim of creation must be consic1ere,] buildable. Councilnerson R~ther feels it might be well to state in the 'lotion the !?'¡fI.{;¡U[g~of what precisely ~s beinr. v:lried. I Continu8d Public Hearinr 'finites - rage IS October 27, 1~7(¡ (Include in the above motion) '!he /btion \'lould he grantin,F' a variance from the IíO~ requireJ'1ent 0" 2-1/2 acres to 1.21 acres and Ûle lot tront \VÍLlth from 103 teet to lliO -Feet. TIlÍs lot is a lot o.f record ~l1ld \,as created ],e.fore the adoption of zoning regulations Md the O\l'J1er or 'lÍs nredecessors did not own adia.cent nroperty whic11, combined \'lith the sin?lc parcel, could have fo~ed a. sinrJe lot conforming to the minimum area requirements. Also that \Vas a lep:al lot size at the tir.e of creation and should nO\'l,be considered buildahlc. Carried unaninouslv, Gid Awanl (City VÒic1e) So!"e discussion on what size the engine \'la.s in the vehicle to ],e purchased. 'nTIOèj hy Rit'1cr, Seconded by \'anderlnan, t1mt the Citv Comcil, based on the recoJ'llTIendation :of the Staff, purchase a 1077 OlCvrolct Chevelle \Vaf-on, froM ~hin 1!otor Sales Company, 222 Iast 'hin Street, Anoka, '0, including pÜ1'JCr steering, power brakes, turbo hydromatic transl1'ission, rallial steel belted tires at a cost not to exceed $4,4 7l. 85. (Radio is being omitted) Vote: Yes: Holasek, Pither, Vanc1erLaan, Windschitl, - :10; Sdmeider, I \,:ould like to know ,,,ha.t we are buYing. I ' ¡\nproval/j\ttenc1ance at Planning 1!eetinf' 'OTIO'J by Rithe~, Seconded by Windschitl, that the City Council :1rynrove the SlS.OO payment for re?~stration fees for those mer.bers of the City Council who wish to attend, those ncmhers of the PLuming and Zoning Comission who \'lish to attend, those menbers of the þ'ar\ Advisory Board who wish to attend, and t'tose ne~lbers of the Staff \'lÌlo wish to att nd the Land Use Planning Session to be held Xover.ber 4, 1976, at the Holiday Inn in tob. '!ake kn0\\'11 to the a.forenentioned individu:1ls t~lat this L:Lnd Use Planning Se,sion will be held and if they are interested she should ask them to so state their ntentions so that she (City Clerk) can r.ake the arranremcnts and that the appron iate paynents for registration fee prior to the session 1'e ma,le. Carried unanim lSly. ),lìTIO:, by Ninds lÍt1, Seconded hy lIolasek, to adiourn the meeting. "eeting was adj umed at 10: 30 p.m. The Verba tin po tiOTI 0+ this meeting was ta.ken dO\I'J1 to the best of my ability. ,~~~V.d.~, Recording Secre ary ! }-/ ~ ~ I,' ~ 11 J' \ t1( 0- J/ ,''t':P , "vI "', -- CITY 01 ANDOVER ADD TO VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT - MEETING, OCTOBER 27, 1976 - PAGE 8 (We have listened to the tapes on several different recorders, and find the following to be audible) Lindquist _ "I have a question for Mr. Burke..... (inaudible). . .. that the interest on the assessment as it now stands is 7.00% (7. 250/0), .... (inaudible) additional interest for this deferment as is done with the senior citizens ?" Burke - "I believe that's that's correct, its the same concept, that would be my understanding. " Lindquist _ "(Inaudible)... . .. .. . . add additional 6%.. .. . (inaudible). .. . ., City would either, City Council felt we would either lose money by not being able to invest it, or would have to borrow money at that interest rate? ( Burke - "Right") .....(inaudible}............ I I ~ l~" \01 I cA - - I