HomeMy WebLinkAboutPH February 10, 1975
CITY of ANDOVER
co TINUED PUBLIC HEARING - FEBRUARY 10, 1975
MINUTES
Pursuant to noti e published thereof, a continued Public Hearing of. Sanitary Sewer
and Watermain onstruction, was called to order by Andover City Mayor,
Richard J. SChnfder. at 7:40 P.M., February 10, 1975, at the Andover Community
Center, 1685 Cr sstown Boulevard N. W., Anoka, Minnesota.
City Council Members Present: Holasek, Rither, VanderLaan, and Windschitl
City Council Meinbers Absent : None
Also Present: : City Attorney, William G. Hawkins, City Engineer,
n.R. Kasma, City Clerk, Art Jaworski, and
Recording Clerk, Pat Lindquist; and approximately
100 citizens.
Mayor Schneide requested that any petitions, if prepared, be turned into the City
Clerk; and noted that 18 had been received to-date.
Engineer Kasma noted that petitions had been received from all areas under
consideration, ith the exception of the multiple dwelling area in the South Half
of the Northeast Quarter of Section 33, and informed the Council that this area
could be done se arate from the Northwoods area. Mr. Kasma presented information
from a Meeting n February 6, 1975 in Brooklyn Park of the Metropolitan Waste
Control Commis ion, with reference to the presentation of a plan to serve the
northern two-thi ds of the City of Andover with sewer in fifteen to twenty years.
The necessity fo the study now is that the City of Anoka is presently having 'interior'
sewer problems, in that they cannot expand their present system to serve their own
City.
Mr. Kasma disp ayed an Andover City map, color-coded from information given On
the petitions rec ived, as to those properties for sewer andlor water, and those
opposed to sewe andlor water; and sUlnmarized the various areas' sentiments.
Residents were i vited to present questions and statements at this time. Said
testimony as foIl ws: (City Staff responses shown in parentheses)
R. Helm _ 2 12 139th Lane N. W.
Questio ed the possibility of the entire City of Andover waiting for sewer
until th y could use the new interceptor through the City of Anoka.
(Dewey Kas a - The Metropolitan Waste Control Commis sion has already
established hat the southern part of the City of Andover is to use the Coon Rapids
interceptor.
T. Zeigler 2719 - l40th Avenue N. W.
Asked i all of Andover would be paying the 'unit charge', even if they were
not able to connect; and if the project loan went on the open market, could
there b a referendum.
Continued Pub!. l Hearing - ,bruary 10, 1975
Minutes - Page
(Dewey Kas a - The "unit charge" is assessed to those properties which will
be able to u ilize the sewer service.)
(William Ha kins - There can be no referendum of this type of improvement
project. )
K. Norton - 2834 - 142nd Lane N. W.
QueSti0fed why the City had not put a second road into the Green Acres Area;
did not feel that the citizens were obligated to do this.
P. Rzeszutek - 14242 Ivywood Street N. W.
Requested information on whether or not the engineer's study included
soil sarfpling.
(Dewey Kasma - Q,ly soil borings were done, and this to locate ground water. )
R. Nelson -12547 - 140th Avenue N. W.
Asked if a "unit charge" would be assessed on vacant lots.
(Dewey Kasma - This would not come until a house was built; and assessment
procedures kre only proposed at this time. )
R. Edwardsl- 2054 Osage Street N. W.
Questio ed other studies done in the City of Andover, and if an average
could b used; and T. K. D. A. 's cost for this study. Also requested information
on doc entation of sewer failures and their causes.
(Dewey Kas a - A study was done about a year ago by the Township Consulting
Firm of C. . D., however, this study was not ordered, received, or accepted
by the Town hip, now City of Andover. Average figures cannot be used inasmuch
as no comm nity is quite the same; and T. K. D. A. I s cost to-date is $15,000.00.
There is a record of the septic system failures that have been corrected, however,
there is not ocumented evidence of the causes of all these failures.)
(Robert Rith r - As an example of a possible cause, cited a home in Andover that
was original y constructed as a three bedroom, with the required septic system
for same; a d is now a five bedroom with a mother-in_law apartment. )
H. Olson _ 041 - 139th Avenue N. W.
Que stio ed the figures shown in the Comprehensive Development Plan Book
for sew r and water costs, as opposed to the figures now given. Also asked
if any p rtion of the assessment could be levied against the City.
(Dew(ey Kas a - ,The Feasibility Studies had not been done at the time the
new C. P. D. Book was prepared, therefore, the figures were very broad estimates;.
and only th benefited area can be assessed for an improvement.)
A. Schrup 2322 - 139th Avenue N. W.
Que stio ed the change in costs if only one or two areas were given sewer
and wat r; and if the Council has the right to reject bids if they feel they are
too high Also asked that if the project were only extended a few blocks,
would t e loan still be available at 6'70.
Coo"o",' PubHtw;ng - 0,"><' >0. "75
Minutes - Page
(Dewey Kas a _ The costs should not vary considerably if only certain areas are
done; and thb City Council does have the right to reject a bid(s). The City Council
may not wist to apply for the improvement loan, inasmuch as there are eighty
items which they must meet, and may not feel that a few blocks of improvement
would warrant the additional work load. )
L. Wendorf 1- 13859 Northwood Drive N. W.
Questiwed the discrepancy in project dates as given to prospective buyers
by the ity Hall Staff. Commented on improper inspections of septic systems
by the uilding Inspector.
(Mayor Schneider - Requested that documented evidence regarding the allegation
made as to fmproper inspections, be secured and brought to the City Hall.)
K. Byer - 2~05 - 142nd Avenue N. W.
Asked if any other grants had been checked into by the City Council; and if
any C0'1ncilpersons had attended the "On-Site Sewage Systems" Seminar.
(Dewey Kasr¡na - Applications for grants were being made, however, the chances
of getting same are very slim. )
(CouncilPerrn VanderLaan - No-one had attended the Seminar, however, in
checking wi officials, found that the systems covered in this Seminar were
of the type t at would be leased from the City; and would not address the
problems th t are facing Andover, such as pollution, contamination of
Crooked La e, etc. )
D. Anderso - 13954 Quinn Street N. W.
Questiored the site of the watertower, if water is approved for the Crooked Lake
Area; nd the number of persons each tower can handle. Feels that the
figures are very unrealistic, based on information he has secured.
(Dew:ey Kas a - There is no particular place where the water tower must go,;
only 1/2 acr site is needed for a tank and pumphouse. A 4, 000 to 5,000 gallon
were checked as a comparison for per unit figures, and the costs were similar;
the manner f assessment may vary from community to community.)
T. Lachinsk:i - 13545 Jonquil Street N. W.
Pointed out that a developer owns over half the property on the west side
of Croo ed Lake; and that water and sewer invites development, which
the pro erty owners and homeowners may not want.
R. Atkins - 13910 Partridge Street N. W.
Felt that sewer and water should be put in now, if problems are anticipated
within t e next five or six years; and that this could result in a savings to
the ho eowner. Had voted against the project, however, did not have a
comple e understanding at the time.
S. Haves - 859 - 142nd Avenue N. W.
Asked i sewer and water had ever been previously proposed for the
Green cres Area.
(Dewey Kas a - Not to his knowledge.)
Continued PubL~ Hearing - obruary 10, 1975
Minutes - Page ~
Lloyd Reimln - 2813 142nd Avenue N. W.
Questioned the payment of the $1000 "unit charge" on vacant lots; who would
absorb ~iS cost until the house is built.
(Dewey Kas a - This is usually covered with the pre-payments received on the
charges alrtadY assessed; cited several examples.)
R. Wagner 13910 Nightingale Street N. W.
Asked if the costs shown in the Feasibility Study were the contractor's actual
bid for he project, and wanted to know when to expect curb, gutter, blacktop, Etc.
(Dewey Kas a - The figures shown in the Study are 20% over the estimated
non'm'o.' 1 ";d. "eee' woe', ,"nh", "..Hop, mb, n'n. nan nomn .n,Umo '.om
one year to never' after the sewer and water improvement is finished.)
L. Anderson - 2053 _ 139th Lane N. W.
Asked för estimates on storm sewers, blacktop, curbs, etc.
(Dewn, ""'r - Tho Com" '" no' o.d.. <hnon """no. '0 no"" g;vo on',
estimates b sed on other communities; this figure could vary considerably from
ci ty to city.
T. Fystrom 2046 Osage Street N. W.
Asked itit would be possible to just oil the roads now, and blacktop later.
(Dewey Kas a - Oil would just soak into the sand. Calcium Chloride is the
material mort often used. )
Robert McClure - 2130 _ 138th Avenue N. W.
SMod J' m..m"nh ., nonn 0' me ...;dem. w..' w.'" o. ..we.. <hn
Council should vote against the project.
Steve Zeigle - 2719 - 140th Avenue N. W.
Asked f r the guarantee for service and costs on the water and sewer; and
reque st d information a.s to who determines the codes for the project.
(Dewey Kas a - The Contractor guarantees the work for a period of one year,
after that it s up to the City to maintain. A guarantee on cost cannot be made
until after the work is completed on the project, and the bids are in. T.K.D.A.
determines t e codes for the sewer, and a check on this is made by the Pollution
Control Age cy; the water codes are also determined by T. K. D. A., with the
check of sa e by the Minnesota State Board of Health.)
(Art Jawors i-The City Council must take many things into consideration
in addition t the petitions, such as 1 )health, 2) failures, 3)development. )
(Dewey Kas a - Sewer failures can be caused by 1) initial design, 2) misuse,
3) soil condi ions, and 4) improper installation.)
R. Flostrand - 13929 Nightingale Street N. W.
Feels th t "sewer failures" map is marked incorrectly; cited examples
of lots w'th no houses having failures.
(Clerk's Not : Map verified--apparently misinterpretation of coding on the map.)
Con"nu.d Pub] i "e.<>o, - .bumy;o, 1975
Minutes - Page
Dan Norton 2834 142nd Lane N. W.
Askedlif Mr. Menkveld had ever been approached as to putting in a second
road into the Green Acres Area.
(Mayor Schnleider - This road will probably be put in if the area around
Green Acre1 develops.)
T. W - 14208 Ivywood Street N. W.
Asked ¡fOr a recommendation from Mr. Kasma as to which areas should or
should not receive sewer and water.
(Dewey Kasra - In view of the petitions, would recommend sewer on both sides
of Crooked Lake; and because of the problems, sewer for the Multiple Units off
Bun'.. ""'1 mvd. =d C.oæ'own mvd, ; w;<h w.'" on'" 00 <hu w'", ,;dn 0'
Crooked La e.)
MOTION by Win schitl, seconded by VanderLaan, that the following voting procedure
be used: j
1) Red Oak _ Sewer Improvement 5) Northwoods - Sewer Improvement
2) Red oak~ _ Water Improvement 6) Northwoods - Water Improvement
3) Green A res _ Sewer Improvement 7) Crooked Lake - Sewer Improvement
4) Gmo Ar' - W.,.. Impmvnm=' 8) Cuook,d L.'. - W.,.. Impuovomen'
Councilperson H lasek suggested amending the motion to consider the Multiple Unit
Area, separatel. Mayor Schneid!"r asked that the motion stand as read. Motion
carried unanimO}SlY.
MOTION by Holasek, seconded by Windschitl, that all petitions received to date, and
identified as Iteì "A" through "R", be accepted. Motion carried unanimously.
(Note: Petitions "A" through "R", recorded and described, to be permanently attached
to this set of Mi tes. )
Red Oaks Area - Sewer Im rovement Project
MOTION by Win schitl, seconded by Holasek, that the Sewer Improvement Project
in the Red Oaks rea, be terminated. Remarks by the City Council as follows:
Councilpers n Rither - All parts of the City must be considered in voting; and
the Council can either be "problem" oriented, or
"solutionl! oriented. The entire scope of the problem
must be addressed. The thoughts that must be kept in
mind are: 1) Benefits, 2) Enhancement of the property
value, 3) Maximum .1.esign capabilities, as to costs
and capacities, and 4) Petitions and opinions.
Councilpers n Holasek _ Petitions and failures must be considered, however,
we must consider the rising costs of construction, but
not forget the present economy. The law mandates
that the City Council cannot delegate the final decision
to anyone. The Council must respect the wishes of the
people, and should comply with these wishes, unles s the
health or welfare of the City is affected.
Continued Put ' Hearing 8bruary 10, 1975
Minutes - Pag 6
Councilpers n Vander Laan - The following tJhoughts must be kept in mind when
making the decision to terminate or order a project
for a specific area: 1 ) Individual septic system
failures, 2) Pollution of Crooked Lake; and that
studies have shown that four out of five wells in
this area indicate traces of nitrate, 3) Comments
from individuals and petitions, 4) Future of Andover
in relation to industrial and commercial development,
5) Preservation of the wet-lands, 6) Preservation
of the ground water, 7) Inflated costs of the system
in th~r". and 8) Health (cited the comment from
Jim' "''ii't5£ the Metropolitan ,Çouncil, ''how much
pollution are we willing to stand? "
Councilpers n Windschitl - Has viewed the situation with the same thoughts and
feeling expressed by the other Councilpersons; and
especially felt that two items must appear uppermost
with respect to the Red Oaks Area, they being,
1 ) Need, and 2) Economic Situation.
Mayor Schn ider - Confirmed the feelings of the Council; and knew that
sewer and water were inevitable, the only question
now, is when.
Councilperson olasek noted that petition received from the Red Oaks Area, indicated
that of the 13 3 ignatures, 100 opposed the project
MOTION restated by Windschitl, seconded by Holasek, that the Sewer Improvement
Project in the Red Oaks Area, be terminated. Vote: Windschitl, Holasek, Schneider
VanderLaan -_ Yes; Rither __ no. Motion carried by 4/5 vote.
Red Oaks Area _ Water 1m rovement Project
MOTION by Wi dschitl, seconded by Holasek, that the project to install watermains
in the Red Oak Area, be terminated. Vote: Schne id e r , Windschitl, Holasek,
VanderLaan-- es; Rither--no. Motion carried by 4/5 vote.
Green Acres A ea _ Sewer 1m rovement Project
MOTION by Ho asek, seconded by Windschitl, that the Sewer Improvement Project
in the Green Acres Area, be terminated. Councilperson Holasek noted that petitions
indicated an al ost 1000/0 opposition. Vote: Holasek, VanderLaan, Windschitl,
Schneider- -yes Rither--no. Motion carried by 4/5 vote.
Green Acres A ea - Water Im rovement Pro'ect
MOTION by Hol sek, seconded by Windschitl, that the 'ì'áter Improvement Project
in the Green Acres Area, be terminated. Motion carried unanimously.
Continued Publ " Hearing ebruary 10, 1975
Minutes - Page 7
Crooked Lake rea - Sewer Improvement Project
Based on a recbmmendation from Mr. Kasma, Councilperson Holasek suggested
that the council vote on the Crooked Lake Area before the Northwoods Area.
MOTION by Va derLaan, seconded by Rither, that the City Council order
construction of It he sewer project for the Crooked Lake Area.
MOTION by Windschitl to amend previous motion to include the provision of
allowing the rekidents until the Year, 1980, to receive the assessment. Attorney Hawkins
advised that before any decision is made on the assessment, the City Fiscal Agent
should be contacted. Council person Rither concurred with Mr. Hawkins statement;
and advised that this Hearing was not to determine assessment policies, as this
matter will be handled at the Assessment Hearing. Mayor Schneider noted that
deferments of this type could establish a precedent, and could prove to be a
problem with rterence to payment of the project. Councilperson Windschitl
informed the C uncil that the only way such a deferment could apply would be
through a "blan et" deferment, which is why he was making the motion.
No second on rrfotion.
MOTION by VanderLaan, seconded by Rither, to amend her original motion to
add that the En ineer prepare final specifications and plans for the installation
of the sewer, a d the City Clerk to seek Public Bids with reference to the
construction of said project. Motion carried unanimously.
Crooked Lake rea - Water Im rovement Pro' ect
Mayor Schneid r questioned Mr. Kasma on the payment for the watertower if
only the Crook d Lake Area is approved for water. Mr. Kasma stated that it
does make the roject less attractive and less feasible with only 80 homes; and
would have to ork out financing with the assumption that additional homes would
be built if wate were available. In answer to a question from a resident, Mr. Kasma
advised that th Contractor would be obligated to furnish water to residents for a
reasonable len th of time, should their wells be dried up during the "dewatering"
process. On he basis of studies that he has made, Councilperson Hólasek did
not feel that th project was financially sound at this time.
Councilperson indschitl asked for the basis of the "unit charge" to be assessed
on, for exam pi , Crooked Lake School. Mr. Kasma and Mr. Swanson stated that
Metropolitan W ste Control Commission figures would be used, i. e., nine or ten
students would e considered a "unit"; or would be charged in accordance with
the capacity of he system assigned to the school (this for sewer charges only).
Water over-siz ng costs would be based on the meter size; with the total equal
to a¡:proximatel twenty homes.
Discussion on hether or not both sides of Crooked Lake should be considered
for water, inas uch as no petitions had been received from the area east of
Crooked Lake Ivd. Councilperson VanderLaan reminded the Council to consider
the impact to the City if the water were put in on the west side of Crooked Lake.
Mr. Swanson f~lt that an additional feasibility study should be done if the project
were to go in oJ only one side of the Lake.
Continued Publ c Hearing - February 10, 1975
Minutes - Page 8
Crooked Lake rea - Water Improvement Project
MOTION by Holasek, seconded by Windschitl, to continue the Watermain Improvement
Project in the Crooked Lake Area until the City has additional information and data
from the Fisca~ Agent. Date of said Continued Hearing to be March 4, 1975.
Motion carried unanimously.
Multiple Dwelli[g Area _ Sewer and Water Improvements Project,
Discussion on j,e Northwoods Area, as to the inclusion of the M-2 Area in this Section.
Mr. Kasma eXplained the costs involved if the trunk lines were changed from th~
original proposå.ls. Councilperson Rither felt that the Council would be contradicting
its elL if they ehcouraged development with the installation of sewer and water, in one
ma, whnn p"'ru"Y >hey had vntnd down thn ;mp'ovom.." ;n an am a'mdy
developed. Pr blems with septic systems in the M-2 Area were cited by several
Councilpersons
MOTION by Ho asek, that the Multiple Dwelling Area (bounded by Bunker Lake Blvd.
on the south, 138th Avenue on the north, Xavis on the east, and Co. Rd. # 18 on the
wn,') hn ;nn'Udt ;n fuo C,ooked Lakn Am P.ojod.
Councilperson ither felt that the City was getting itself into a "box" by not
addressing the ntire system; stated that the Comprehensive Development Plan
is calling for d velopment on an orderly, controlled basis. Councilperson Windschitl
questioned whet er or not the City could afford to do the M-2 Area, considering all
the undeveloped area through which the trunk lines must travel.
MOTION by Ho asek, seconded by Windschitl, that the City Council table their
decision for the Sewer and Water ImprovementsProject in the M-2 Area, until
March 4, 1975. Motion carried unanimously.
Northwoods Area - Sewer Im rovement Project
MOTION by W' dschitl, seconded by Holasek, that the Sewer Improvement Project
in the Northwoo s Area, be terminated. Vote: Windschitl, Holasek, VanderLaan,
Schneider- -yes; Rither - -nO. Motion carried by 4/5 vote.
Northwoods Ar a - Water 1m rovement Project
MOTION by Hol sek, seconded by Windschitl, that the Water Improvement Project'
in the Northwoo s Area, be terminated. Vote: VanderLaan, Holasek, Windschitl,
Schneider-_yes; Rither--no. Motion carried by 4/5 vote.
MOTION by Rit er, seconded by Windschitl, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously.
Heari"g adjourn d;/ 11 :05 P. M.
) //Î Attest:
¡,
, ,-
Clerk Arthur J. Jaworski - City Clerk
CITY of ANDOVER
PETITIONS
1. Item (A) - Steven Turbenson (13635 Gladiola Street N. W.) \ \,,""
2. Item (B): _ David Stenger (13365 Gladiola Street N. W.) \ ",~J"
3. Item (C) _ !rooked Lake Area, containing forty (40) signatures '-to ~.,v
4. Item (D) - rooked Lake Area, containing thirty (30) signatures J" \P,'\)
5. Item (E) - iscellaneous area residents for all or part of project, and containing
nine (9) signatures. Cì vv ,
6. Item (F) - Mr. & Mrs. Richard Ernst (2301 - 139th Avenue N. W.) \ ~I~
7. Item (G) - Circulated by Charles Howe, and containing thirty-eight (38)
signatures - opposed to water in Green Acres Area.
8. Item (H) - Circulated by Charles Plowe, and containing thirty-six (36)
I ' ,
s~gnatures - opposed to sewer in Green Acres Area. ?)(þ (£.1~C"A_4
9. Item (I) - Albert & Rita M.J. johnson (2859 _ 135th Ave. N. W.) - opposed to sewerl a,:.J
10. Item (J) - Lhter with attachments containing signatures covering all of
Rjd Oaks 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Additions.
( 1-2a) - Red Oaks 1st Addition - opposed to sewer and water' ,)
(J _2b) -" "- opposed to water, for sewer:; t~j
(J _2c) _" "- for sewer and water (signature invalid) )':r
(J _2d) _" II _ for water, opposed to sewerrv·,., -;::_t+-,y[~t~.;
d ,
(J -3a) - Red'Oaks 2nd Addtion - opposed to water and sewer ,;} "1''''''.'"
(J -3b) _ " 11 _ opposed to water, for sewer .:~, ~I.)
(J 3c) _ " " _ for water and sewer' \'C-'
(J 3d) - " ,,_ for water, opposed to sewer",":" """,7..'~
(J 4a) - Red Oaks 3rd Addition - opposed to water and sewer! 'i "'j'~~'J
(J 4b) _" "_opposed to water and sewer i D 0 ~""
(J 4c) _" ,,_ opposed to water, for sewer I ;"J
(J 4d) _ " " - for water and sewer \ ".
(J Sa) _ Red Oaks 4th Addition _ opposed to water and sewer (6 sheets) ':"'
(J 5b) - " ,,_ for sewer and water ,',I.,,)
(J 5c) " " for water, opposed to sewer " ;. _ J-
-
(J 5d) - " " - opposed to water, for sewer ?, ,,)
(J 6) _ II 11 _ undecided J...... L~ \~);... .! .,)
ll. Item (K) - T ree (3) pages from Northwood's Addition?;LY ".,",.,'\- ..
12. Item (L) - K nneth & Janett Eveland, opposed to sewer \ "', q.
13. Item (M) - R ssell Luta _ requests removal of name from previous list. For sewer
\
0 posed to water. \ Y'-'
14. Item (N) - G ry Peck _ 14139 Crosstown Blvd. N. W. opposed to sewer and water; (,'"
,
15. Item (0) _ St ve Slyz1uk - opposed to sewer and water \ " , ,
,.
16. Item (P) - K nneth Slyzuk - 14124 Crosstown Blvd. N. W. opposed to sewer and water.
Item (Q) ree (3) pages from East side of Crooked Lake '7 "1:,,-,...,0-,30,;>, \ '~c"'" ,',I
1 7. - T
l8. Item (R) - T ree (3) pages from Northwoods Addition. " \ ' . J
J 'JJ\ ..'--....