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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP July 31, 1974 COMBINED MEETING Burns To~mship, Oak Grove Township, City of Ham Lake, City of East Bethel, Grow Township and ßamsey Township 'II July 31, 1974 This combined meeting was called to order at 7:30 by Grow Town- ship Chairman, Mr. Richard Schneider, at the Grow Town Hall. The chairmen and mayors of the six communities present were asked to come up to the front platform at the beginning of the meeting. Elk River Township had also been invited but no one was present from this township. Mr. Schneider welcomed everyone and thanked, them for coming. He said Grow was proud of their new town hall. , c Mr. Cox had drawn up a list of items which could be taken up at this meeting. He said he thought their hall was fantastic and complimented Grow on the nice blacktop outside in the parking area. He said the comments on the two sheets of paper represen- ted some ideas that had been discussed in the past but was not a format for this meeting. He said he was very pleased and appre- ciated the fact that the Planning and Zoning Commissions and the Building Inspectors from these communities were present. He said decisions made by the Planning and Zoning Commission were very important and should be recognised as such. He said the problems of these six communities are similar in many areas. These com- munities should be working together in naming streets which go across many communities. Decisions are often made in one com- munity which affect the surrounding communities. Roads, for in- stance, are one item that affect our neighboring communities. Railroad trains can affect us all when they tie up the roads leading south. The people who are making decisions today will affect the people who may move into the community, or buy land or a business in the future. Mr. Cox said the items on this list were not recommendations but he feels they are items which should be discussed by these six communities. He said he was not recommending anything. If Grow and Ramsey Townships went to 20 acres per house, it would force the present development into Burns and Oak Grove Townships. Ur- ban sprawl is being brought about because of what is going on in the communities to the south of us. If Grow and Ramsey Townships , went to 20 acres per house and Burns Township was one acre, then people would go up to Burns TO\inship. Tax Base: We all recognise the important of the tax base. Some- times things are being handled by some communities that could benefit other areas. Metro Transit would have cost us about $24,000 and we would still not have had any bus service. Mr. Ed. Fields found out about this situation and notified us in time to prevent our getting dra\in into this. Police, fire and trail systems are other things on which we could work together. Ford Brook goes into Burns and if they had a trail system and Rarasey didn't, it wouldn't make a very good trail -.I: system. Hiawatha Creek is an exanlple of good planning and it would not be as it is today without it. '-"·"'-"';":¡V· 7/31/74 - 2 - C .~l. If communities work together they can carry more weight with the legislature. Those present may come up with some thoughts and ideas that will be welcomed by all of us. Dick Schneider: What kind of trails - snowmobiles, horses, bikes, etc.? Arnie Cox: Any trail of any type will cover more than one com- munity. Trott Brook needs a lot of improvement and would make a very fine trail system. If there are developments at this point it could provide some real problems later on. The County just re- ceived some funds for improving parks and for future parks. Along Trott Brook we have two plats that should have had land for a trail along the brook but we had no such ordinance and now it will pro- bably cost much more to acquire this ' land. We have a new plat along this brook that has 50 acres for a park along Trott Brook and we feel this was a very good decision. If a lake was made in this area, some of the homes would be flooded out and water would find a route farther south going toward the Rum River. If plan- ning is done ahead of time, we would not have to buy and tear down structures to make future parks. If communities would work to- gether, they could solve many of these problems. Dick Schneider: Uniform Building Permits. All communities fol- low the State Building Code. I Bob Hutchinson, Burns County. All communities do not follow the State Sewer Code. Ramsey has not adopted the State fee system. Ernie Peterson: We are adopting State code and fees. Within a month's time they will be in line vdth the State. Neal Tusler: In East Bethel we have adopted all State Building ceres and fees. Douglas Minder, Burns: Asked Wally Arntzen if he thought the fees were acceptable or should they be set by the individual community? Wally: Each community can set their own fees to meet their ex- penses. He thinks State fees are not excessive. Anoka is not taking in enough to pay for their two building inspectors. Minder: How many inspections on one building? Wally Seven inspections. Everett Steinke, Oak Grove: Are building inspector's supposed to do the plumbing inspection? Wally: The building inspector does the plumbing inspection. Grow Township has authorized him to have a master poumber to do the inspection on industrial and commercial buildings. Bob Hutchinson: Fees are basic and should be adequate to have a ~ality insbection job. Program should be self-supporting and S ould not e supported by taxes. "'''':'~~ :~::'_'''í-':-.:.m - 3 - 7/31/74 ' C.M. I Dick Schneider: Definitely inspection should be done right at the time the building is going up. Ernie Peterson: I think you have all received letters from the State about a certificate of occupany. We have been advised to have certificate of occupancy on all buildings. Wally: It is a violation of State Building Code if they move in without a building occupancy permit. They had three in one month's time. Arnie Cox: We have six finals that would like to move in before the house in completed. We have one weak area in our ordinance and it needs to be changed. It puts the official in a bad situ- ation. Wally: They can be fined $)00 per day for this violation. Build- ing inspectors are liable if anyone moves in before a house is finished. He has allowed people to move their furnishings into a finished garage. Minder: Should the builder or the home owner pay the fine? Wally: The one who takes out the building permit pays the fine. Minneapolis and St. Paul have occupancy permits for used homes. Bill Nelson: Thinks building inspectors for the seven communi- ties should get together every month or six weeks to talk over their problems. Bill Burman, Oak Grove: How many people know about this occu- pancy permit? Bill Pittman, Ramsey: They are notified when they get the build- ing permit. Winslow Holasek, Grow: He thinks the builder should be held re- sponsible for the biolation of this permit. Many young people don't know anything about occupancy permits. The occupancy per- mit is for the protection of the buyer of the house so that it will be completed. Real estate people advertise on radio and TV that people can have a ranch with horses and pigs. Buyers are very unknowledgeable. Contractors don't come back to finish their work without the occupancy permit. Nobody talks about the hard- ship put on the local government when houses are not finished. Dallas Felegy, City of Anoka: The building official is no strong- er than the governing body. Jerry Hopperstad, Ramsey: What about a $1,000 bond for the build- er? . ~", ". "" "I '.,'1""",-.- - 4 - 7/31/74' Wally: He suggested that .all the building inspectors get togethe~·M. and he will sponsor the first one here at Grow. Bill Pittman is in favor of it. Eugene Voss. East Bethel: Is in favor of this. Ernie: It would be nice if all the building inspectors would get together so we could say "This ordinance is enforced in all the surrounding communities". We could have the same ordinances in all communities here tonight. Arnie Cox: We should try to come up with acceptable ordinances for all communities. Felegy: Many of the townships are requiring licensing and bond- ing on sewage system installers. We need lecensing in all the townships so they can stop the installers that are not doing their job. Voss: The County has come into East Bethel on this subject. The County wants it County ~~de. Hutchinson: The County Health Department ordinance was recommen- ded in June of last year. It is good to provide a standard for outside sewer systems. Ramsey ordinance is good. The one they had before was not good. There is a mechanism in this ordinance whereby the community would agree to use the County ordinance and have their own inspector. Enforcement would mean the property cannot be used until it meets the code. Arnie Cox: Is the County more qualified to do this inspection? Felegy: They are asking local inspector's to do the inspecting. Dick Schneider: Grow is not going to 20 acres. It is not defin- itely settled yet. Some communities are having a moratorium on lot sizes until they get sort of caught up \~th residential plats. They are having a six month moratorium in Ham Lake while their community is having a comprehensive planner do their planning. Recess: 9:15 to 9:25 p.m. Dick Schneider: Grow is having a comprehensive plan developed. The planner recommends 20 acres. He is opposed to this because he feels this is making a number of small farms on one home lots. Skip Rither. Grow: He feels they have somewhere around 8000 people. Most development is in the south. Extension of services to scattered areas will be costly. Most of their development is on one acre lots. They need parks and have road complaints. He feels 20 acre lots in the north would slow settlement in that area. Arnie Cox: Ramsey has 1 acre lots south of Trott Brook and north of it is 2t acres. No metes and bounds is used. ';' ,. ." . ", J:~;;'~:~:: ':~: :....:-~.-.......J::i: ;:~::: :.L:::.' ::~;:.." ,"-' . . ....,...,,,".,..-.,......-..,,,..... .--- - 5 - 7/31/74 C.M. Minder: Minimum lot size in Burns is zt acres. They have some problems with their ordinance. Anything less than 20 acres should be platted. This is Township wide. Ham Lake: Adopted Dakota County Ordinance, 39000 sq. ft., 9/10 of an acre and 200 foot frontage. You can sell 1 lot and then you have to plat. They now have a six month moratorium. Possi- bly will have this lot size after the plan is adopted. Cox: Many of the roads will be collector roads. EAst Bethel: In November they had small lots. They had a mora- torium since May 15th. They use shoreline ordinance of Anoka County. They will require deep wells and percolation tests and boring tes·ts. At the last meeting they agreed to hire a planner. They see no prospect for city sewer and water until the year 2000. They are planning around this fact. They feel their planner will suggest 20 acres. They are in a peripheral area. There may be some areas in the city where they can use smaller acreage. They do not have an overlay plan. Knutson: The Oak Grove platting ordinance is 2t acres minimum with 330 foot frontage. 5 acres by metes and bounds. They require all roads to be put in and stabilized with Class V. They require 7% of the area for parks. Whenever they can pick up additional lake, creek or river lowland, wherever it is available, they pick it up for future for parks and trail systems. They have many lots that are going to be a problem and they don't know what the answer ,dll be to that. There is no thought of changing the lot size. the University of rünnesota gave them some of the input for 2t acres and this should handle septic tanks well into the year 2000. Sewer is far off according to the Metro Sewer Board. They have an overlay. Steinke: Many people have worked all their lives and put all their savings into land. What young couple starting out can af- ford 20 acres and build a house on it? If they are on retirement, how can they pay the taxes on such large acreage? Burns: Feels many new roads will be collector roads. Cox: Ramsey requires bituminous roads on 1 acre additions and three inches of Class V or more in the 2-!ì- acre area. Burns: Their roads have been predicated on County Roads. Nelson: Blacktopping on all new developments. East Bethel: Blacktop up to this point. Approximately 100 miles of roads on sand. This makes for two separate maintenance efforts for the city. Most of them end up at a creek, lake or such in a cuI de sac. ::¿ - 6 - -' C.M.7/31/74 Ernie: They have about 3,000 people. In talking with the County " Highway Dept. they say studies show they can grade a road every day to maintain it for less than they can maintain blacktop. Blacktopping their streets would be prohibitive. Grow: New developments require blacktop. Hutchinson: He doesn't think 2t acres is a goo~ minimum. Bü~R~s Berg: Couldn't get a loan on a 20 acre piece at the bank. He had to cut it dOvID to 10 acres and run a road across the other 10 acres. Cox: If we went to 20 acre requirement in the northern area of the Township the same thing would happen that has happened in the communities to the south of us. Bill Nelson: Has the Metro Council approved this 20 acre idea? Answer: Metro Council has not approved this as yet. With 20 acres you are legislating growth, you are going to own a lot of land when sewer goes in. It is discriminating against the land owner and the individual who wants to move into your community. A lot size of this requirement is discriminating decision and he thinks a court would look at it the same way. Such large areas would ac qui re , junk, garbage and everything lyou can think of. They will create eye sores in the community. Cox: He has noticed a new attitude on the part of the Metro Council. Jim Barton of the Metro Council: Some of the comments are well taken. They are trying to come ,up with some standards. They have completed an analysis of soil capabilities and enviroruaental considerations. They are also studying emissions from power plants. Some people bought a large acreage and this is their next egg. Restraints on the property are the soil conditions. One community is going to deeper wells. This combined meeting is a fine thing and he would like to see more of it. How much pollution are we going to accept? Holasek: He is not sure this is a good question. How do you control orderly growth? He had just attended a convention in the State of Maryland which was attended by people from all across the U.S. Some places have 40 acre restrictions. This is the biggest waste of land and it won't hold. It has taken good land out of production. You haven't seen a weed patch unless you have seen a 20 or 40 acre weed patch. They habe urban sprawl allover the 1¡lOrlù. You can't farm 40 acres. There is a world wide food shortage and he ùoesn't feel such land can be taken out of food production. , .. :!r:!::' '~'::,;. . -9- C,!vI.7/Jl/n Jerry Hopperstad, Ramsey: Have every Board or Council send three elected or appointed officials to such a meetin8' Bruce Russell, East Bethel: Not limit it to officials, Have individuals from each Township, anyone who can come, It was sU£;8ested we have a combined meetin8 like this every other month on the last Wednesday of the month, making the next meeting September 25, 1974 at 7:30 p,m, It was suggested we invite City of St, Francis, Elk HiveI' Town- ship, Linwood, Columbus, Lino Lakes and the County, Meeting adjourned at 11:30, ~ctfU11Y subm~tted, -'^/r& '--~"::-~(_ " -~...-.J~ Clerk, Ramseý o~s~ J.