HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 8, 1985
CITY of ANDOVER
REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
OCTOBER 8, 1985 - AGENDA
Call to order - 7:30 P.M.
Approval of Minutes - 9/24/85
l. Conun. #9-85-5
2. conun. #9-85-7
3. Conun. #9-85-8
4. Conun. #8-85-3
S. COI'MI. #') OS 1
6. Conun. #9-85-9
7. Conun. #10-85-1
Rose Benigni Lot Split, Cant.
Frank Padula Rezoning Public Hearing
Richard Szyplinski Special Use Permit
Public Hearing
Groundwater Heat Pump Ordinance Public
Hearing
Oatellite DisLes Dis,-ussioh, CVHL. De./e..J-....
Ordinance 46, Section 3A Discussion
Green Acres Sketch Plan
CITY of ANDOVER
REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
OCTOBER 8, 1985 - MINUTES
The regularly scheduled Andover Planning and Zoning Commission meeting was
called to order by Chairman Jacobson at 7:30 P.M., Tuesday, October 8, 1985
at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard N.W., Andover, 11N.
Commissioners Present:
Commissioners Absent:
Also Present:
Jovanovich, Rogers, Bosell (arrived at 8:15 P.M.)
Apel
Mrs. Fanucci; Frank Padula; David Szyplinski;
David Almgren, Building Official; others
Approval of Minutes
September 24, 1985
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jacobson to approve the minutes of September
24, 1985 as written. Motion carried on a 3 yes, 1 present (Jovanovich) vote.
Rose Benigni Lot Split (Comm. #9-85-5)
Mrs. Fanucci, representing Mrs. Benigni - stated that they are requesting
a lot split in order to purchase as much of Mrs. Benigni's property as
legally possible without buying the house.
Chairman Jacobson asked if there was a reason for the irregular size of
the lot. 11rs. Fanucci stated that there is a swamp in the northeast corner
of the property which is used for drainage for a heat pump. She also stated
that the land they want to buy is in back of Mrs. Benigni's house.
MOTION by Jovanovich, seconded by Rogers that the Andover Planning and
Zoning Commission recommend to the City Council approval of a lot split
requested by Rose Benigni for the property described as PIN 01 32 24 23 0001,
pursuant to Ordinance 40, with dedication of park fees for the following
reasons: 1) It will not adversely affect the existing or potential use
of adjacent land; 2) It is in conformance with the Comprehensive Plan; 4) It
is necessary to the reasonable use of the land.
Motion carried unanimouSly. This will go to the City Council on November
5, 1985.
Frank Padula Rezoning Public Hearing (Conn. ~9-85-7)
Chairman Jacobson opened the public hearing. fIr. Jacobson then explained
that Mr. Padula is requesting a rezoning from R-l to Neighborhood Business.
Neighborhood Business allows a number of things that cannot be done on
residential land, such as a convenience store, minor retail and office
buildings.
Regular Planning Commission Meeting
October 8, 1985 - Minutes
Page 2
(Padula Rezoning, Cont.)
Frank Padula - noted that the city has shown a need for a county library.
In checking with the Library Board, they have agreed that the piece of
property he is proposing for a library (Lot 2, Block 4, Pine Hills) meets
their criteria. The building would be 32' x 100' with two small shops
on either end.
Chairman Jacobson asked Mr. Padula if he is the owner of the property. Mr.
Padula replied yes.
Commissioner Rogers asked if the library would be private or a county
library. Mr. Padula noted that it would be leased by the county. The
Library Board agreed with the location because it is on two main roads and
there isn't another library within 7 miles.
Commissioner Rogers asked what the two shops will be. Mr. Padula noted
that a real estate company and a music store have expressed interest.
Chairman Jacobson asked Mr.
the property he owns in the
Library Board doesn't think
hazardous equipment there.
are that are on either end
could not put that type of
Padula why he doesn't build the library on
industrial park. ~r. Padula noted that the
that would be a good place because of the
Mr. Jacobson asked how necessary the two shops
of the library. Mr. Padula stated that he
building in if he doesn't put in the shops.
~1r. Jacobson asked Mr. Padula if he has anything from the Library Board
saying that they will actually lease the building for a library. Mr.
Padula noted that the city has sent a resolution to the Library Board
stating that we need a library. If a library isn't built in Andover by
April, they will build one in Ramsey.
Chairman Jacobson noted that 4 individuals phoned City Hall to state that
they are in favor of the rezoning for a library. They were: Nancy Carlson,
15914 Uplander Street N.W., Byron and Debbi Gardner, 5l4-l55th Avenue,
Karen Peterson, 1374 - l6lst Avenue N.W. and Debra LaFlamme, 16001 Uplander
Street N.W. He also noted that we have a letter from Leon Packer stating
that he fUlly supports the rezoning request.
Mike Pallow, 16071 Narcissus Street N.W. - stated that he is against the
rezoning. He felt that if anything i3 going to be built, it should be on
the other side of Round Lake Boulevard.
Del Schafer, 16021 Quay Street N.W. - also stated that he 1S against the
rezoning. The property should stay residential.
Mike Pallow - felt that a library would be OK but is against the shops.
He asked what would happen when the library moves.
Mr. Padula stated that the Library Board would
lease is automatically renewed after 5 years.
cnow of any place where they have moved.
sign a lease for 5 years.
He stated that he didn't
The
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich to close the public hearing. Motion
carried.
Regular Planning Commission ~1eeting
October 8, 1985 - Minutes
Page 3
(Padula Rezoning, Cant.)
Commissioner Rogers noted that he somewhat agrees with the residents in
the area; they have some rights. The library would be beneficial to the
city, but there are other places where it would be acceptable.
Chairman Jacobson noted that he checked with the City Attorney on this
and Mr. Hawkins suggested that a Special Use Permit be granted rather than
a rezoning. That way, if the library doesn't go, the Special Use Permit
would be void.
Mr. Padula stated that he cannot build the building unless he has the two
shops along with the library.
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich that the Andover Planning and
Zoning Commission recommend to the City Council denial of a rezoning request
by Frank Padula for the property described as Lot 2, Block 4, Pine Hills
Addition (PIN 17 32 24 41 0014) from Residential-l to Neighborhood Business
for the following reasons: 1) The residents in the area do not feel that
the rezoning is appropriate; 2) The County Highway Department has indicated
that they do not want an access to County Road 9; 3) The R-l zoning is
correct and changing it to Neighborhood Business would conflict with the
overall Comprehensive Plan; 4) The Commission finds that there is land
wi thing a reasonable distance that is owned by the applicant and is properly
zoned for this use; 5) Rezoning to Neighborhood Business could, if the
library does not materialize, open the property to other uses which could
appear on the other side of County Road 9; 6) Additional property designated
Neighborhood Business is not needed at the present time because there is
land available.
It should also be noted that there were some people in favor of the rezoning.
Motion carried unanimously. This will go to the City Council on November
5, 1985.
Richard Szyplinski Special Use Permit Public Hearing (Carom. #9-85-8)
Chairman Jacobson noted that we have received a telephone call from Molly
Comeau of the Department of Natural Resources stating that they have no
problem with this request; however, it should be called a dock rather than
a deck.
David Szyplinski, 15520 Potawatomi Street N.W. - noted that his father is
proposing a seasonal dock meeting the requirements of the DNR.
Chairman Jacobson opened the public hearing.
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich to close the public hearing. Motion
carried.
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich that the Andover Planning and
Zoning Commission recommend to the City Council approval of a Special Use
Permit requested by Richard Szyplinski to build a seasonal dock on the
Rum River at the property described as PIN 19 32 24 22 0005 for the following
reasons: 1) It will not be detrimental to the health, safety and general
welfare of the community; 2) It will not seriously depreciate surrounding
Regular Plannins, _ommiss. . Meeting
October 8, 1985 - Minutes
Page 4
(Szyplinski Special Use Permit, Cont.)
property values; 3) It is in conformance with the Zoning Ordinance and
the Comprehensive Plan: 4) Comments were received from the Department of
Natural Resources stating they have no problem for a dock; 5) Approval
is pursuant to Ordinance 52.
Motion carried unanimously. This will go to the City Council on November
5, 1985.
Groundwater Heat Pump Ordinance Public Hearing (Comm. #8-85-3)
Chairman Jacobson explained that this would be a new ordinance. It has
been discussed at previous Planning Commission meetings and we have gotten
it down to what is reasonable and proper.
Chairman Jacobson opened the public hearing.
Jim Hiltz - stated that the ordinance is very unreasonable. It would be
better if you looked at ways of disposing of the water. A heat pump system
uses 3 gallons of water per minute.
Commissioner Rogers asked what the maximum water usage is. Mr. Hiltz
noted that it is between 5 and 5-1/2 gpm. He also stated that a typical
family uses 100 gallons of water per day per person. That amount of water
is being ejected into the septic system.
Chairman Jacobson asked Mr. Hiltz if he does any work in Woodbury and Grant
Township, which are the only municipalities that have an ordinance of this
type and if he does work there, are there any problems.
Mr. Hiltz stated that he has done work in Woodbury and the only problem is
the cost of the system.
Chairman Jacobson noted that one of the reasons the City Council referred
this matter to the Planning Commission was that there was some flooding in
the northwest part of the city. There are some others in other parts of
the city where the ponds are increasing to a large degree. He then asked
Mr. Hiltz if he is suggesting that we allow over the grounQ systems where
the water stays on the property. Mr. Hiltz replied yes; drainfields or
ponding areas would be acceptable ways of disposing of the water.
Scott Kneen, Geothermal Heating, Highway 10, Anoka - stated that he is
a mechanical engineer and that when the price of oil when up he decided to
look into the feasibility of well water heating and cooling. He then read
the fOllowing statement: 'The proposed ordinance affecting water-fed heat
extractors and water-fed air conditioning equipment will unjustifably
penalize the present and future homeowners in Andover by making the install-
ation economically not feasible. As a result, Andover homeowners will not
benefit from millions of dollars in energy savings and future development
will be discouraged by high energy costs. We would like to point out three
areas of concern: 1) Economic feasibility; 2) Depletion of the aquifer; 3)
Recycling method of water return.'
Ed Wilson - stated that this same water
He also stated that in January 1982 his
heat pump, the highest bill was $60.00.
problem occurred in 1964 and 1972.
heat bill was $450.00 and with his
The heat pump uses approximately
Regular Planning Commission Meeting
October 8, 1985 - Minutes
Page 5
(Heat Pump Ordinance, Cont.)
280,000 gallons of water per year. In the summer he uses the water for
his sprinkler. Mr. Wilson noted that the thing that could be causing the
water problem is the dirt that was put in the swamp when the streets were
put in.
Bill Arsdorff, S&B Geothermal Heating - noted that he has had his system
for three years. He puts the water in his garden for his geese. Ten minutes
after it is shut off, the water is gone. He also noted that the closed
loop system is not feasible in Minnesota as the efficiency goes down. He
felt that perhaps regulating heat pumps is good because of the flooding.
Chairman Jacobson asked Mr. Arsdorff what the typical lot size is where
he has installed these systems. ~r. Arsdorff stated it between 1-1/2 and
2-1/2 acres and up.
Chairman Jacobson asked Dave Almgren how the city feels about putting
wells on city size lots. Mr. Almgren noted that they are allowed for water-
ing lawns.
Commissioner Rogers asked if there is any way the water could become con-
taminated.
Jim Hiltz stated no. The only change is the water temperature.
~udy Wicklander, Ru-Dell Builders - stated that his system drains into a
55 gallon bucket filled with rock.
Mr. Jacobson felt that we should require perc tests for each lot and have
someone size the system correctly.
Dave Almgren noted that in the Russell/Stack Addition where the water problem
is, there is a series of clay layers and he doesn't know how far down they
go. The water cannot go through the clay; it perches on top of the clay.
Commissioner Bosell asked how far east the clay goes. Mr. Almgren stated
that it probably goes to Seventh Avenue and about a half mile south of
County Road 58.
Chairman Jacobson suggested that some language could be put in the ordinance
that would give Dave the authority to require per tests.
Del ?, Econar, Inc., Fridley - stated that his company builds heat
pumps. He noted that the ordinance is more or less a duplicate of the
Woodbury ordinance, where they had a problem in the winter because the
system drained across a street and the water froze. The problem in Wood-
bury is because it's hilly and mostly all clay. He also noted that some of
the ponds in Andover are enlarging. The rnethod of removing the water should
be looked at. He also stated that he is opposed to the closed loop system.
He also suggested changing Section 1 of the proposed ordinance to include
1 provision for testing of the soils. City size lots will have storm sewers
which go out to natural waterways. He stated that the Rice Creek Watershed
requires that a person obtain a permit if they drain more than 50 gpm.
Regular Plannins _ommiss_ . Meeting
October 8, 1985 - Minutes
Page 6
(Heat Pump Ordinance, Cont.)
Mr. Hiltz noted that the Coon Creek Watershed requires calculations and
ponding areas if the water table if affected to a degree of 6 inches. Any-
thing under that, they just look at.
Dave Peterson, 16732 Argon Street N.W. - asked if there is an ordinance that
prohibits the discharging of water onto someone else's property. Commissioner
Bosell stated that there is such an ordinance.
MOTION by Bosell, seconded by Rogers to close the public hearing. Motion
carried.
Chairman Jacobson stated that since everyone has the same concern, he will
put something together that.will satisfy the contractors arid installers.
Two things of concern would be that we don't want any water discharging
into the sanitary sewer or the storm sewer, and utilizing the building
official's authority to require a perc test or soil borings.
This item will be continued at the October 22nd meeting.
Recess 9:20 P.M. - Reconvene 9:30 P.M.
Ordinance 46, Section 3A Discussion (Comm. #9-85-9)
Chairman Jacobson noted that according to the Building Official, if a person
~as a 4 foot high above ground swimming pool, a fence is not required. Mr.
Jacobson disagrees with that.
Commissioner Bosell felt that on an above ground pool, the pool itself is
the fence.
Mr. Almgren noted that he generally tells people who are installing an above
ground pool that they should have removable steps.
Mr. Jacobson stated that he would probably be in favor of having a removable
ladder as a requirement for above ground pools.
Mr. Algren suggested the following wording: 'All outdoor pools hereafter
constructed shall be completely enclosed by a fence or wall so as to be
inpenetrable by toddlers, and a minimum of four feet in height, except that
above ground pools with a side wall height of at least 4 feet need not be
fence but shall have removable steps.'
Chairman Jacobson suggested the following wording: 'All above ground swimming
pools need not be fenced; however, they shall be equipped with ladders that
can be detached or raised so they cannot provide access to toddlers.'
The secretary will type the two suggestions for the October 22nd meeting.
Green Acres Sketch Plan (Comm. #10-8~-1)
:hairman Jacobson noted that Lot 12 needs to be 15 feet wider because it is
a corner lot. Also, the lot way over on the right side of the plat looks
less than 150 feet deep.
Regular PlanninS. ..:ommiss. 1 Meeting
October 8, 1985 - Minutes
Page 7
(Green Acres, Cont.)
Ken Gust - stated that the lots on the right side of the plat would only
meet the requirements if Dahlia Street were construction.
~lr. Jacobson felt that if Dahlia Street were not vacated, you could bring l4lst
Lane all the way through.
Commissioner Bosell noted that the wetlands map shows Dahlia Street ~s in a
swamp.
Mr. Gust noted that these lots are not all 20,000 square feet, but there was
talk when this was brought in previously that they could possible the same
as the lots on 142nd Avenue.
Mr. Jacobson felt that one lot on the north and one lot on the south could
be eliminated to make the other lots meet the 20,000 square foot requirement.
He stated that he would prefer to see the lots all 20,000 square feet.
Commissioner Rogers agreed, stating that if the area around this is 20,000
square foot lots, this would also be 20,000 square foot lots.
Ms. Bosell noted that the last time this sketch plan came in, the concern was
to match up the lot lines. The concensus was to go with the narrower lots.
She asked Mr. Gust how wide the street is. Mr. Gust stated that it is
60 feet. Ms. Bosell noted that he could go down to 50 feet.
Commissioner Jovanovich agreed that the lot lines should match.
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich to adjourn. Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 10:20 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
u-u
Vicki Volk
Commission Secretary